India says one of the Karmapas is ungrateful

Within the Karma Kagyu tradition responsibility to recognize the Karmapa lies with four regents. In recent times, three of these regents have recognized competing candidates, confusing followers all over the world. Orgyen Trinley Dorje (left) was recognized by Tai Situ Rinpoche; Trinley Thaye Dorje (middle) was recognized by Shamar Rinpoche; and Dawa Sangpo Dorje (right) was recognized by Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche. In-fighting between supporters of these candidates continues until today, a fact that has fractured the tradition deeply. Add to this the fact that the Dalai Lama interfered by backing Orgyen Trinley, a move with no traditional basis, the schism became a heated debate within the Tibetan community. In response, Shamar Rinpoche claimed that Orgyen Trinley’s recognition was incorrect, that he had evidence of this and that the Dalai Lama had no business in meddling in the affairs of the Kagyu lineage. Now Orgyen Trinley, who the Dalai Lama and the CTA nurtured for a decade has abandoned them and prefers to have freedom as a citizen of Dominica.

The opinion piece below was sent to for publication. We accept submissions from the public, please send in your articles to [email protected].



By: Shashi Kei

In the last few days Indian media platforms have published news of their government’s furor and withdrawal of support for the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje, one of three claimants to the highest seat of the Karma Kagyu, the second largest Tibetan Buddhist sect after the Gelug. Interestingly Karmapa Ogyen Trinley who was recognized and enthroned by the Chinese government, was also the only Karmapa claimant endorsed by the 14th Dalai Lama in 1992. The Dalai Lama’s interference in the Karmapa succession issue was unjustified and went against age-old Karma Kagyu tradition resulting in dire consequences – first, it robbed the Karma Kagyu sect of their right and authority to settle an internal matter on their own, creating confusion and clashes within the lineage that remain until today; second, the Dalai Lama effectively acknowledged that China has the authority to recognize and enthrone high lamas, by endorsing the same candidate of their choosing.

The Indian headlines regarding the loss of confidence in the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley carry a number of significant implications for the Tibetan people-in-exile, both domestic and international:


1. The Tibetan leadership’s politicization of Tibetan Buddhism has backfired

It is clear that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley does not wish to return to India. According to some news reports, whilst initially shocked he had secretly obtained a Dominica passport, India remained willing to grant Ogyen Trinley a visa to re-enter their country to attend the 13th Tibetan Religious Leaders Conference. The conference, which was subsequently cancelled, was to be held in Dharamsala in November 2018 but Ogyen Trinley reportedly made no attempts whatsoever to apply for such a visa.

Karmapa Ogyen Trinley.
Click to enlarge.

Still other media outlets reported that India refused to acknowledge Ogyen Trinley’s Dominica passport. These reports stated Delhi was unwilling to grant Ogyen Trinley a visa on his Dominica passport, and would only allow a return via his Yellow Book, an identity document issued by the Indian government indicating its bearer is a Tibetan refugee and protectorate of the Indian state. According to those news reports, Ogyen Trinley refused to use his Yellow Book, saying he was going to surrender it and would only accept a visa on his Dominica passport.

Notwithstanding the contradictory nature of these news reports, the clear message is that Ogyen Trinley has the means to, but no intention of, returning to India. Despite being touted as one of the Dalai Lama’s potential successors, a much-coveted position especially amongst those who seek to use recognitions in Tibetan Buddhism as political leverage, it is clear that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has decided that he and the Karma Kagyu are better off staying outside the influence of the Indian government. It remains to be seen whether this is a rejection of the Indian government per se or a skillful way to rebuff the control that the Dalai Lama’s office and the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) has been exerting on all Tibetan Buddhist schools, including the Karma Kagyu.

Either way, it appears that the Tibetan leadership has well and truly lost someone who could have assumed a leadership position in a post-Dalai Lama era, not only because they had a hand in splitting the Karma Kagyu but because they have failed to be a part of its potential reunification. Earlier this year, the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley signaled his intention to repair the split by meeting with the ‘rival’ Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje in France. Both Karmapas later issued a joint statement declaring their intention to heal the divide in the Karma Kagyu and reverse the damage caused by the Tibetan leadership. Throughout this process, the Tibetan leadership who were the main progenitors of this split, was nowhere to be seen. There could not be a clearer signal that the Tibetan leadership’s meddling in and politicization of the Karma Kagyu is no longer welcomed.

Joint Statement of His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje and His Holiness Trinley Thaye Dorje. Click to enlarge.


2. The CTA’s ‘culture of fear’ loses its bite

Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s recent behavior could be a good indication that the Dalai Lama’s office and the CTA no longer command the same level of control over the Tibetan Buddhist schools as they did before. For certain, both the Dalai Lama and the CTA failed to compel the return of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley to India.

Anyone who goes against the Dalai Lama or the CTA will automatically be labelled as a Chinese spy.

By tradition, each Tibetan Buddhist school recognizes its own head who holds absolute authority in all matters related to the lineage. However, being in exile provided the Dalai Lama clique with a rare opportunity to usurp these powers. Whereas previously the Tibetan leadership ruled by fear (with myriad oppressive devices such as ex-communicating those who were regarded as challengers to its authority or declaring anyone who opposes the Dalai Lama and CTA to be ‘Chinese spies’ and ‘traitors’), it would appear from Ogyen Trinley’s clear denial of the Dalai Lama’s wishes that the Tibetan leadership’s culture of fear is losing its effect.

Or perhaps, the need and urgency to rescue their respective Tibetan Buddhist schools now outweighs the fear of not toeing the Tibetan leadership’s lines, regardless of how valid or invalid the diktats are. Various Tibet watchers such as the Indian author Jayadeva Ranade have commented that the heads of the Sakyas, Kagyus, and Nyingmas have begun building bridges with Beijing independently of the Tibetan leadership, recognizing that this move may be necessary to salvage the integrity of their respective sects. A number of lamas from these various traditions have established their centers and bases in Chinese cities like Chengdu, openly courting and recruiting Chinese students. By contrast and ironically, any Gelug who attempts to perform the same bridge-building that should have been the CTA’s duty is browbeaten into submission, and accused of being ‘anti-Dalai Lama’ and ‘anti-Tibetan’.


3. The CTA is on the last leg of its ‘legitimacy’

The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s decision to apply for a Dominica passport and de facto disowning his Yellow Book is a clear signal that CTA-linked documents no longer have any gravity. The Yellow Book is issued by the Indian government to Tibetan refugees, identifying its bearer as a protectorate of India. It was previously deemed an acceptable travel document by a few key countries, and was used by the CTA to assert their legitimacy – having the Yellow Book meant India, at the very least, recognized that Tibetans were refugees from a legitimate state and for another nation to accept the Yellow Book as a travel document was, in the CTA’s view, tantamount to that country’s acknowledgement that they were exiled from their sovereign home.

The Dalai Lama’s endorsement of Ogyen Trinley went against Karma Kagyu tradition and placed the ancient lineage on a collision course with itself.

However, as the CTA’s favor with world nations has waned over recent years, so too has acceptance of the Yellow Book and it appears this rejection has filtered down to a micro level. With the CTA having banked their legitimacy on the Yellow Book, but with many countries now rejecting its validity, the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s decision not to return to India may well be due to his realization that the CTA is fading into oblivion and with it, everything that depends on the Tibetan government-in-exile. So it is not only nation states that are rejecting the CTA but also the CTA’s own people too.

The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s decision to give up his Tibetan Yellow Book in favor of a state-issued passport should not come as a surprise as many officials of the CTA have secretly secured their own Indian passports and applied for residency in other countries. To begin with, Sikyong Lobsang Sangay is well-known to have held on to his American citizenship. At the very least, it is a clear indication that the man entrusted to lead the Tibetan people does not share the same conviction as he demands of those under him. Similarly, Lobsang Sangay’s cohort, Dhardon Sharling, the former secretary of the CTA’s Department of Information and International Affairs (DIIR), has also procured her Indian passport and was last reported to have resigned from her CTA post, with plans to fly off to the United States. They are just two of many CTA officials who are known to have disavowed their Yellow Books, Identity Cards and Registration Cards, in favor of American and European citizenship. Clearly if the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s act of giving up the Tibetan Yellow Book is to be regarded as a betrayal, then it was the CTA that set the precedent.


4. Tibetan leadership’s transgressions created a trust deficit with India.

The most damaging implication of the Indian government’s disavowal of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley will be felt by the Tibetan leadership and because of that, the Tibetan cause itself. The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley had the Dalai Lama’s endorsement and backing. In the past, that itself was enough as formal accreditation of a high lama’s status and a seal of worthiness. India’s rejection of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is tantamount to its rejection of the Dalai Lama’s to-date unquestioned authority to recognize and enthrone high lamas.

Two of the Karmapas – on the top is the Chinese enthroned Karmapa Ogyen Trinley that the Dalai Lama endorsed. India has since stated that it does not recognise Ogyen Trinley as the official 17th Karmapa; At the bottom is Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje whom the Dalai Lama rejected but has continuously received support from spiritual heads of other Tibetan Buddhists sects and also the royal family of Bhutan.

From the start, India had its reservations about Ogyen Trinley and suspected that he might have been planted by China to spy on India. However, India succumbed to the Dalai Lama’s constant pressure and reluctantly accepted the Chinese-enthroned head of the Karma Kagyu. That was without doubt due to the strong influence the Dalai Lama wielded over key Indian politicians. Whether or not the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is actually on an espionage mission is speculation. If India’s suspicions turn out to be true, then it was the Dalai Lama who facilitated this infiltration. On the other hand, if there is in fact no basis for India to suspect him, then the Dalai Lama and CTA did not exert nearly enough effort to clear his name. Presumably with India’s apprehension hanging over Ogyen Trinley’s head, it would be much easier for the CTA to control him.

However, India is now clear in its rejection of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley as it views the Karmapa’s lack of consideration for India’s kindness to be gross ingratitude. This negative sentiment will not end with just Ogyen Trinley. As a matter of fact, that the Indian government would openly disown the Dalai Lama’s man would also indicate that it is no longer willing to trust the Dalai Lama as it did before. To put it bluntly, it is a slap on the face of the Tibetan leadership and an indication that the Dalai Lama’s word is losing currency with Indian authorities. This issue first gained traction when it was learned that the Dalai Lama had secretly sent Samdhong Rinpoche to negotiate his return to China. India’s increasing weariness of the Dalai Lama and other CTA politicians spring from the fact that the Tibetan leadership have readily availed itself as a dangerous instrument of statecraft in Sino-Indian affairs, and indeed in the USA and NATO’s (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) rivalry with China. The Dalai Lama’s tag as a wily and opportunistic politician now troubles India as the Dalai Lama makes overtures towards Beijing, with blatant disregard for its impact on Sino-Indian relations.

Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje has himself received support from heads of state and religious leaders alike much to the dismay of the CTA. These include, the Former King of Bhutan Jigme Singye Wangchuck (top left); head of the Drikung Kagyu sect, Drikung Chetsang Rinpoche (top right); Dilgo Khyentse Yangsi Rinpoche, the reincarnation of the Nyingma master Dilgo Kyentse (bottom right); and Hambo Lama Damba Ayusheeyev, the head of Buryat Buddhists in Russia (bottom left).

In addition, the Tibetan leadership’s recklessness in creating two main Karmapa rivals have placed India in a no-win diplomatic mess with Bhutan. As the Indian journalist Vijay Kranti rightly pointed out, the Karmapas are also a spiritual patron of the Kingdom of Bhutan and so by referring to the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley as a “liar”, “fugitive” and other invectives, India insults a patron of the royal family of Bhutan. As it turns out, the Kingdom of Bhutan has had closer ties with the ‘rival’ Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje, the candidate that India did not recognize, therefore placing India in an awkward position to have rejected the candidate that Bhutan chose to endorse. Either way India loses out and given the delicate and potentially incendiary Doklam issue between India and China, Bhutan’s location is strategic. Yet, once again, the Tibetan leadership’s machinations into Karma Kagyu affairs where it had no business has created yet another hurdle for India to cross.

Click to enlarge

India’s backlash will be ultimately borne by innocent Tibetan refugees who have trusted the CTA, and also by the Tibetan cause. This could not happen a worse time when India is clearly backpaddling from its erstwhile support of the Tibetan people. At the crucial time when China is making great efforts to be acknowledged as a valid authority to recognize and enthrone high lamas, the CTA’s mishandling of the issue resulting in the Indian government’s rejection of the Dalai Lama’s Karmapa choice severely dents the Dalai Lama’s credibility, creating an even bigger opportunity for China.


5. India’s rejection of the Dalai Lama-endorsed Karmapa also calls into question the Dalai Lama’s widely-assumed omniscience.

How the Dalai Lama could not have foreseen that his involvement in the recognition of the 17th Karmapa would ultimately jeopardize the standing of the Tibetan people with their Indian host, goes against the belief that the Dalai Lama is supremely clairvoyant.

This however, has not been the Dalai Lama’s only spiritual judgement that has been called into question of late. Other recent high appointments by the Dalai Lama have similarly raised eyebrows – the Dalai Lama’s selection of the 103rd Gaden Tripa Jetsun Lobsang Tenzin Rinpoche (spiritual head of the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism) passed away not even six months after the Dalai Lama appointed him to be the representative of Lama Tsongkhapa on earth. This was followed by the Dalai Lama’s appointment of the 7th head of the Nyingma school, Kathok Getse Rinpoche Gyurme Tenpa Gyaltsen who passed away less than a year after his appointment.

Top: The 103rd Gaden Tripa Jetsun Lobsang Tenzin Rinpoche. Bottom: The 7th head of the Nyingma school, Kathok Getse Rinpoche Gyurme Tenpa Gyaltsen. Click to enlarge.

In Tibetan Buddhism, it is believed that rightful candidates for spiritually prominent posts will naturally have the merits to occupy the positions to which they have been appointed. Incorrectly-appointed candidates will face obstacles to their life and health, as a means of clearing the office for the appropriate candidate to assume the position. In the case of the Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje whom the Dalai Lama did not endorse (thereby implying that he is not the rightful head of the Karma Kagyu), he seems to be holding his own, with a commanding presence and spiritual loyalty from within the lineage and without any controversies. This begs the question, did the Dalai Lama get it wrong?

In recent times, the Dalai Lama’s reliance on the Nechung State Oracle has also led his judgement to be called into question. Tibetan Members of Parliament such as Tenpa Yarphel have questioned the wisdom of relying on a deity for state affairs and asked if such a reliance has any place in what is claimed to be a modern democracy. Their incredulity is based the Nechung Oracle’s frequently inaccurate predictions which have, time and again, disappointed the Tibetan people. In 2008 for example, the Nechung Oracle even predicted that the Dalai Lama would soon return to Tibet, a prophecy that the news channel France24 recorded the oracle’s assistant confidently reaffirming. It is, as history tells us, a prophecy that never came to pass.

Politically, the Dalai Lama’s endorsement of Lobsang Sangay, the present head of the CTA, is still the foundation that has emboldened Lobsang Sangay to do as he wills, sending Tibetan harmony down a ruinous course by enforcing divisive policies based on regionalism and religious discrimination. One thing is abundantly clear, that is, the Dalai Lama is prone to mistakes and has been proven to be wrong, often with disastrous consequences.



The Indian government has for the past 60 years been an extremely generous host and protector of the Tibetan refugees. India’s magnanimity has in fact sustained the Tibetan struggle since 1959, continually placing it at odds with China and all the time endangering the wellbeing of the Indian people. The fact that the CTA, the Dalai Lama’s ‘government-in-exile’ was able to form and exist as an administration within another nation was solely due to India’s benevolence. The Tibetan people and the Tibetan cause could not have survived without India.

The Tibetan leadership’s reckless self-serving agenda has landed its generous host in numerous diplomatic disasters over the years.

And yet, the Dalai Lama and the CTA have not wisely leveraged on this. The fact that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s actions have created misgivings and negative sentiments against the Tibetan people is indicative of the Tibetan leadership’s gross mismanagement of 60 years of opportunities and of India’s kindness. Some Indian officials now claim that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley acted in bad faith, inferring that he is ungrateful to India. Negative sentiments by the Indian people towards the Tibetan refugees have been on the rise in recent years and Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s decision to snub India aggravates the situation even further. How the CTA has allowed this situation to deteriorate as it has warrants close examination and honest questions to be asked of the Tibetan leadership.

While the focus is on the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley today, it needs to be noted that the Dalai Lama and the CTA set this course in motion decades ago. That the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley felt “trapped” in India and was restricted from moving about freely is due to the ‘Karmapa Conflict’ that the CTA brought to pass. That, the Dorje Shugden conflict, and other catastrophes are the bitter fruits of the Tibetan leadership’s manipulation of Tibetan Buddhism for political objectives, creating schisms within the Tibetan monastic community when there were none. It was borne from perfidious intent and the CTA’s exploitation of India’s kindness to create enmity between India and China in order to inflate the significance of the ‘Tibet card’, which Indian thinkers are now calling to be shut down and given up. In inciting violence amongst the Tibetan community to distract them from the CTA’s failures, breaching the basic human rights of the Tibetan people on Indian soil and agitating inter-sectarian conflicts, thereby setting a precedent for potential inter-religious clashes, the CTA has in fact given nothing back to India except for rhetoric and self-serving speechifying. The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley debacle is just the latest in a long list of wreckage courtesy of the Tibetan leadership’s malpractices.


Ogyen Dorje’s Identity Certificate invalid,
will have to apply for Indian visa

Source: Click to enlarge.


Passport anger at Karmapa claimant

Source: Click to enlarge.


India does not recognise Ogyen Trinley Dorje as
the 17th Karmapa Lama, say sources

Source: Click to enlarge.


‘Dorje no longer recognised by Indian govt
as 17th Karmapa’

Source: Click to enlarge.

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17 total comments on this postSubmit yours
  1. As the so-called spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhists, the Dalai Lama strictly abstains from drinking alcohol in accordance to traditional monastic codes. However, it has recently been reported that the religious leader owns his own vineyard in Switzerland! Apparently, various celebrities, including the likes of Roger Moore, Sepp Blatter and Zinedine Zidane have all made trips to the vineyard. What will people say when they find out that a Buddhist monk, who promotes abstinence from alcohol, owns a vineyard that produces wine for sale? This is certainly not going to sit well with his image of a religious leader and member of the Buddhist monastic order.

  2. The CTA is political and its legitimacy is much in question.
    It also has no country to run hence it is more like an NGO at the very best, rather than a government.

    The Indian government has a country to run and the politicians have mandates to garner. They cannot put the needs of their citizens below that of the CTA NGO or any other organisation, spiritual or secular.

    The Karmapa is a spiritual leader who cannot be bound by any political organization. It is his right and spiritual mandate to travel freely to spread the Dharma. The Karmapa has logically chosen to hold a Dominica passport so as to facilitate his “work”.

    In my opinion, both the Indian government and the Karmapa have acted rightly. The “loser” is the CTA NGO who have no legitimacy either politically or spiritually. They should just accept that.

    • What you say makes sense. CTA is such a big loser.

    • I too agree with this 👍

  3. This article tells the truth and puts the blame squarely on Tibet government in exile. That’s where the blame belongs.


    BTW, good news Sharling Dhardon the useless opportunist is quitting her position in this regime. She achieved nothing and only created tremendous discord using religion. Shame on her.

  4. Rejoice that young leaders like the two opposing Karmapas, though supposedly foes have come together to overcome all the politics which created their animosity to create a bigger cause, that is harmony and unity within the Karma Kagyu tradition.

    It is my hope that this unity will extend to all traditions within Tibetan Buddhism.

    The divide amongst Tibetan Buddhism traditions had been the work of CTA who in their feudalistic mind thinks of divide and rule.

    From the ban on Dorje Shugden and schism in recognising heads of every tradition, CTA had done great disfavour to Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhism.

    As their propaganda is waning, let there be harmony for the Dharma to grow speedily in 10 directions.

  5. Dear Tibetan government-in-exile (Dharamsala),

    Sharmapa Rinpoche is the highest authority in the Karma Kagyu after Karmapa. By age-old tradition, Sharmapa is the one that confirms the real incarnation of Karmapa. He recognized Thaye Dorje as the genuine Karmapa. But Dalai Lama endorsed Orgyen Trinley as the real Karmapa. Dalai Lama is a great lama but there has never been a tradition of him recognizing a Karmapa.

    Both ‘Karmapas’ have big followings in and out of Tibet. So which one should we follow? We have to follow the genuine Karmapa. If we follow the fake one, we will get fake teachings, fake lineage and no results. We can even take rebirth in the lower realms.

    Only the Tibetan leaders can tell us which is the real Karmapa. You have told us which one is the real Panchen Lama. We follow the Panchen of your choosing. Since then we have condemned China and condemned the fake Panchen Lama. Now it is the same situation with Karmapa. We have denounced the fake Karmapa and ask him to step down. He is destroying the Karma Kagyu Lineage.

    This issue has torn the Karma Kagyu sect in half. There are many who are so confused and some gave up Tibetan Buddhism altogether because of this. We must solve the confusion. This does not look good for the Tibetan government in exile because the confusion was started by Tibetan government. I support Dalai Lama and Tibetan government. But so many of us need to know the real Karmapa already. Don’t remain silent. Which one is the real Karmapa.

    Tibetan government in exile, you have created two Gelugs (Pro-Dorje Shugden and against), you have created two Panchen Rinpoches, two Karmapas, two Dromo Geshe Rinpoches, two Kundeling Rinpoches and so on. When are you going to solve all the confusion. You are destroying Tibetan Buddhism.

  6. Respected lama la,
    Thinley Thaye Dorje is real Karmapa. Coz The karma Kagyu Lineage Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche recognition Karmapa and Karmapa recognition The Sharmapa in history of The Kagyu Lineage. I respect His Holiness Tenzin Gyatso 14 th Dailai lama, but the karma Kagyu Lineage is own lineage. So His Holiness Dailai Lama does not have the right to interfere. Of course he is king of Dharma n king of Tibet. So please do not waste your time all the tibetan people and karma kagyu lineage friends. follow the real karmapa. Namaste n good night from Kathmandu .

  7. This has been haunting me.

    CTA please answer – which one? Which one? Which one?


  8. Only the Tibetan leaders can tell us which is the real Karmapa. You have told us which one is the real Panchen Lama. We follow the Panchen of your choosing. Since then we have condemned China and condemned the fake Panchen Lama. Now it is the same situation with Karmapa. We have denounced the fake Karmapa and ask him to step down. He is destroying the Karma Kagyu Lineage. From Mountains at –

    So why wouldn’t they just do that? Since they can twist history around, ban incarnations, and murder high lamas. Heck, they even banned the Sharmapa from returning and the Karmapa had to secretly recognised him for 3 lifetimes and the funny thing is when he is allowed back, he went straight back into giving the Dalai Lama more headaches hahahaha.

    And what about the next Sharmapa that the white KarmapaTrinley Thaye Dorje is rumoured to be born as his son? Now that will surely put the CTA and Dalai Lama to shame, because how can Sharmapa take rebirth in the fake Karmapa? Unless it is the Dalai Lama who recognised the fake Karmapa 😱😂😱

    And please don’t tell us there is 2 Karmapas next! It’s becoming a lame excuse.

  9. Very significant

    A hair cutting ceremony can be done when someone is going to be a monk. Or when a person is being recognized as a tulku. Besides that, it’s rare there are hair cutting ceremonies for others reasons except for certain pujas.

    Also the master who does the hair cutting should be someone of ‘high standing’, greatly respected and if possible a high lama with blessings. Many attendants of young tulkus will seek hair cutting ceremony with the highest or very respected lamas of their lineage. Many like to get this done by HH the Dalai Lama these days. So it is very unusual that Karmapa Thaye Dorje has his son’s hair cutting done by Luding Khenchen Rinpoche who is Sakya and not even Karma Kagyu which Karmapa Thaye Dorje belongs to. This signifies a few things:

    1. Definitely Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son is not becoming a monk at such a tender age. So the hair cutting signifies it is a incarnate lama or tulku.

    2. To have his son’s hair cut should be done by Dalai Lama but instead they have this done by Luding Khenchen Rinpoche shows an outright avoidance of Dalai Lama.

    3. Also Karmapa Thaye Dorje is telling Dalai Lama and CTA (Tibetan govt in exile) that they don’t need them. Karmapa Thaye Dorje does not need Dalai Lama or CTA to make it. They will be fine on their own. It is a very strong message to everyone.

    Remember, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje has never taken one single photo with the Dalai Lama. Why is that? Because Karmapa Thaye Dorje and followers reject the Dalai Lama.


  10. More and more people are going against the CTA and the Dalai Lama. In the past, only the politicians were doing that. For example Lukar Jam Atsok, Penpa Tsering and Dhamchoe Nyima. Now the Karmapas are also going against the CTA and the Dalai Lama.

    The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley was under the control of the CTA since his arrival in India. Now, he rebels by getting a Dominican passport and says bye bye to the CTA. He is not going back to India anymore. He has kind of cut his contact with the CTA and the Dalai Lama.

    His meeting with Karmapa Thaye Dorje was also another big slap to the CTA. The CTA did not recognise the other Karmapa. All these years they only endorsed the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. But now the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley went against the CTA and went on to try to settle the division in Kagyu lineage himself by meeting up with the other Karmapa.

    The CTA and the Dalai Lama are losing control now. I believe after the Karmapa incident, there will be more people including spiritual practitioners who will go against the CTA and the Dalai Lama.

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.…Instead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the ‘wrong’ practice. Actually Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong. But hypothetically, if they are, wouldn’t it be more Buddhistic to be accepting? So those who have views against Dorje Shugden should contemplate this. Those practicing Dorje Shugden should forbear with extreme patience, fortitude and keep your commitments. The time will come as predicted that Dorje Shugden’s practice and it’s terrific quick benefits will be embraced by the world and it will be a practice of many beings.

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