Author Topic: India & Tibetan govt in exile not happy with Karmapa getting Dominican passport  (Read 2439 times)

thaimonk

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Indian govt. feels Karmapa is ungrateful that for many years he was given asylum and now he becomes a traitor and simply gets a Dominican passport and wants to surrender his Indian Identity certificate. He never consulted with Indian govt or thanked them for all the years of asylum. Karmapa applied for visa to India and it was flatly denied using his new Dominican passport.

Tibetan govt. in exile not happy with Karmapa as they cannot control him any longer since he has taken residence in the US permanently. He did so again without asking the permission of the Dalai Lama and Tibetan govt. in exile. Surely the Tibetan govt. in exile will find a way to 'punish' Karmapa as they do all 'errant' followers and citizens of the Tibetan regime in Dharamsala.

The article is indeed interesting. Personally I don't blame Karmapa for escaping to the US and staying there.



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Cloud over key Tibetan meet as Delhi stalls Karmapa’s return
The Hindu
Suhasini Haidar
Vijaita Singha

Govt. is unhappy with Dorje’s decision to acquire Dominican citizenship
The indefinite postponement of the 13th Religious Conference of the Schools of Tibetan Buddhism and Bon Tradition, which was scheduled for November 29 and 30 in Dharamsala, has once again turned the spotlight on differences between the government and the Karmapa, the head of one of the four main sects of Tibetan Buddhism, over his return to India, officials confirmed to The Hindu.

According to officials of the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Ministry of External Affairs, the two sides have reached an impasse over the 34-year-old Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s decision to acquire citizenship of Dominica earlier this year. As a result, despite several requests from the Karmapa for a visa, he has been unable to visit India as planned.

Requests denied

The officials, who asked not to be named, confirmed that the Karmapa had written multiple letters to the Indian consulate in New York and to the Dalai Lama asking for a visa. The Karmapa said he wants to surrender the Identity Certificate (the yellow card issued by India to Tibetans for ease of travel) since he has already acquired Dominica’s citizenship.

A senior government official told The Hindu that the Karmapa was welcome to visit India but the government would not agree to his demand to surrender the Identity Certificate. “He can come here on the Identity Certificate issued to him, there is no bar on him visiting here,” said the official.

Another source denied any delay by the government in processing the papers, but said that in its opinion, “the Karmapa doesn’t need a visa.” With its tough stand, the government is understood to have made clear its annoyance with the Karmapa’s decision to overstay in the U.S. , where he travelled in March 2017, and acquire another country’s passport, rather than return to India.

Since 1999, when the Karmapa and his sister fled to Dharamshala, the government has hosted him and allowed him to set up his congregation. Since then he has grown in prominence and is now considered as a possible successor to the Dalai Lama’s political clout over the Tibetan refugee population around the world.

Confirming the impasse, the government’s former advisor on Tibetan Affairs Amitabh Mathur, who has been a key interlocutor said the matter has now been put on hold. “Karmapa is in a retreat now; it is not known when he would like to visit India. There are no restrictions on his travel, however” Mr. Mathur told The Hindu. A government official who had dealt with the Karmapa also said he hasn’t reverted on India’s response, and is “in penance” at present.

The confusion over the Karmapa’s return is now casting a shadow over other issues in the community like the November conference of Tibetan religious leaders, which was postponed ostensibly after the death of a senior monk, Kathok Getse Rinpoche, head of the Nyingma School, in an accident in Nepal.

While officials of the Central Tibetan Administration as well as government officials deny that the absence of the Karmapa had any role in the cancellation of the conference, most accept that it will be difficult to reschedule the conference without including him.

Keen to attend

In an interview to Radio Free Asia in July this year, the Karmapa had underlined the importance of holding the conference as well as of his presence there.

“I have no doubt or question that my return to India is absolutely certain. In November of this year, there will be an important meeting of the heads of the major Tibetan Buddhist traditions in Dharamsala, India. Therefore, I must attend,” he had said.

In the interview he had also spoken of differences with the Indian government when he had first entered India, over accusations that he was a Chinese agent, and the fact that the government engaged with him for a long time via “lower-level officials”.

The cancellation of the conference has come as a major surprise given the stakes involved in bringing together various streams of Tibetan Buddhism and their leaders in particular. The Dalai Lama was due to address the gathering on the last day of the conference organised by the CTA in Dharamshala, where a discussion on a successor to the Dalai Lama was also expected to be held.

Beijing’s concerns
When asked about a date for the conference, officials said the conference has now been “indefinitely postponed” which led to speculation that New Delhi had bowed to Beijing’s sensitivities on the issue.

Mr. Mathur said China was playing an influential role in the Buddhist circle in Nepal and Sri Lanka. “We have to take note of this growing Chinese engagement in our neighbourhood. They will do what’s in their interest. What we need to do is to expand and intensify our own engagement,” he said.

In February, Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale had cautioned government officials and ministers against attending Tibetan conferences, which had led to the cancellation of several planned events to commemorate the 50th year of the Dalai Lama’s flight to India, as well as a major parliamentarians conference on the Tibet issue.

When asked, MEA sources however, denied that the Chinese government had ever raised concerns over the 13th Tibetan leader’s conference.


https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/cloud-over-key-tibetan-meet-as-delhi-stalls-karmapas-return/article25700522.ece

(Photo- The government will not agree to the Karmapa’s demand to surrender the Identity Certifi   | Photo Credit: PTI)

thaimonk

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Lobsang Sangay cancelled the event for the 13th Religious Conference of the Schools of Tibetan Buddhism, the winner of this round seems only to be China, who is not a participant within the 13th Religious Conference. Without the conference, the future of who leads the Tibetan in exile spiritually is put into question as the conference cannot not be held and no timeframe when the next one will be held. For years I personally have felt Lobsang Sangay could even be double agent, as his action of cancelling this event benefitted China only, embarrassed the Dalai Lama and India all in one go..

Also in the article, questions are raised as to could the Indians actually capitulated to China's demands to stop the conference. As seen in much of the media these days, relations between China and India have thawed a lot in the recent months.

Sent by Lobseng

(photo- Tibetans protest against Lobsang Sangay accusing him of using public funds for his personal expenses and properties)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 10:37:32 PM by Admin »

Lawrence L

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I am not surprised by the reaction of the Central Tibetan Administration. They are nasty and always have been controlling the lamas using the Dalai Lama's name to do what they want. This is a known norm and it is not something new or something exists post 1959. Prior to China occupation in Tibet, Dalai Lama's government was known to be very cruel and they controlled the whole Tibet, punished and killed whoever that is against their will.

Now Karmapa wants to be free, of course they will not be happy. If Karmapa is free from them, it would mean they have one less power. I am glad that Karmapa gained his new passport and live the way he wants to. Karmapa is such a soft and kind Lama, there's no harm he can create and I don't understand why Central Tibetan Administration is going after him. Well, perhaps they're trying to secure as much power as they can as they are losing power day by day.

India and China are befriending each other now and this is evident. Central Tibetan Administration is getting more and more insignificant. With this I can understand why they are so upset now for not be able to control the Karmapa.

"Let it go, let it go" should be their new mantra now as they are going to lose their power in the end...  ;D

KarmaRangdrol

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I don't think this is going to be the most popular opinion but as a Tibetan, I say this wholeheartedly - if you can leave, get out. Do it before it's too late and everyone shuts their doors on you. If someone like the Gyalwang Karmapa is leaving, with all of his money, resources and supporters he STILL wants to get out, that should be a strong, strong signal that you need to get out now. This is not about being ungrateful to our leadership. It's about putting yourself in the best possible situation to help your family and your country.

The Karmapa's experience tells you all you need to know. We are living under a vindictive Tibetan government and they will act out their vindictiveness through the Indian leadership. Is that really something you want to be under for the rest of your life?  ???


You have a good point here. Not only has the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley strategically positioned himself outside the CTA's striking range, he has also met the other 17th Karmapa Thaye Trinley Dorje with the view to unite the Karma Kagyu lineage after the Dalai Lama's intervention tore it apart. To me, he is openly defying the CTA's plans to divide and conquer.

He is not the only one who has left. Previously we saw how even the Dalai Lama's biographer Amchok Rinpoche decided to return to Tibet and a few days ago Sikyong Lobsang Sangay's protégé resigned from her Cabinet post and has indicated that she will be going to the states supposedly to further her studies.

These are people in the know and if they are bailing out quickly there must be a reason.

I think the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is right to have left India. Being in Dharamsala means he will either be used  as a political tool by the CTA or the Indian government or both. This may be appealing to someone with a political agenda but not for someone who is only interested in practicing Dharma and preserving the teachings of his lineage.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 10:46:42 PM by vajratruth »

PrajNa

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Lobsang Sangay cancelled the event for the 13th Religious Conference of the Schools of Tibetan Buddhism, the winner of this round seems only to be China, who is not a participant within the 13th Religious Conference. Without the conference, the future of who leads the Tibetan in exile spiritually is put into question as the conference cannot not be held and no timeframe when the next one will be held. For years I personally have felt Lobsang Sangay could even be double agent, as his action of cancelling this event benefitted China only, embarrassed the Dalai Lama and India all in one go..

Many Tibetans have a different view of Lobsang Sangay after he fired Penpa Tsering. It is well known that he's in the CTA for his own self-serving purpose, but the incident with Penpa Tsering truly shows his true colours, and Lobsang Sangay couldn't hide how happy he was during the press conference when he got rid of Penpa Tsering. This is the kind of people that the Karmapa had to deal with, no wonder the Karmapa was depressed and wanted to get out of Dharamsala asap.  :(

phyag na rlangs pa

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Indian govt. feels Karmapa is ungrateful that for many years he was given asylum and now he becomes a traitor and simply gets a Dominican passport and wants to surrender his Indian Identity certificate. He never consulted with Indian govt or thanked them for all the years of asylum. Karmapa applied for visa to India and it was flatly denied using his new Dominican passport.

Tibetan govt. in exile not happy with Karmapa as they cannot control him any longer since he has taken residence in the US permanently. He did so again without asking the permission of the Dalai Lama and Tibetan govt. in exile. Surely the Tibetan govt. in exile will find a way to 'punish' Karmapa as they do all 'errant' followers and citizens of the Tibetan regime in Dharamsala.

The article is indeed interesting. Personally I don't blame Karmapa for escaping to the US and staying there.


I am not surprised that Karmapa is not interested in returning to India.

(1) He has been a victim of geo-politics since he arrived in India in 1999

(2) He had spent 18 years in Indian under conditions best described as: house arrest

Quote
“in India the police around Karmapa did not let him go out, but when he asked the head of the police in Dharamsala he was told they were listening to the government in exile!

SOURCE: Exiled Tibetans are confused about future, https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news/exiled-tibetans-confused-future


(3) It's only after his escape out of India, that Karmapa in his famous address early this year expressed his thoughts on the politicisation of his position as the Spiritual Head of the Karma Kagyu sect.

Quote
“I never really felt that I had any freedom of my own,” he said of his youth at Tsurphu Monastery, the seat of the Karmapa in Tibet, where he lived under close supervision at all times.

As the Karmapa noted, questions have arisen lately as to why he has remained in the US, though he assertively denied any intention for personal benefit or “insidious plans.” He also acknowledged a history of rocky relations with the Indian government, who at one point suggested that the Karmapa might be a Chinese spy. The Karmapa reflected on how these accusations add to the unending pressure he feels to embody the carefully curated lifestyle many expect to see from a living Karmapa—a figure traditionally seen as an incarnation of Chenrezig, the enlightened bodhisattva of compassion.

“When other people look at what I’ve tried to do, they take it as a matter of course. But on my own part, I’ve had to give up a lot,” he said. “None of it has been easy. If those around me do not believe in me, then there is no reason to pretend and keep going, so for that reason, I have been depressed.”

In a moment of sharp address, the Karmapa’s special Monlam message took a critical stance on an internal sectarian rift that occured after the passing of the 16th Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje, in 1981. In search of his reincarnation, two Karma Kagyu lineage holders, Shamar Rinpoche and Tai Situ Rinpoche, identified and enthroned two different successors. Ever since, the historically singular lineage of Karmapas has experienced substantial sectarian divide.


READ MORE: The ramifications of Karmapa’s shocking special message, http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-ramifications-of-karmapas-shocking-special-message/


After everything he has been through, it is absurd for the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) or any other party for the matter to assume that the Karmapa is going to return so easily.

In a stroke of unforeseen genius, karmapa applying for and getting dominican citizenship along with the recent news of him returning his yellow card is the ultimate act of defiance.

His recent clandestine meeting with the rival Karmapa Thrinley Thaye Dorje in Feance earlier this year is also widely seen as another act of defiance.

Whether it's of their own accord or as an act of friendship to China, India's refusal to grant a visa for Karmapa to enter India only shows how weak the Central Tibetan Administration has become.

It is becoming clearer that the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) control over the various schools of Tibetan Buddhism is no longer what it used to be. The Karmapa's defiance to kowtow to the CTA is the seed of dissent which will inspire the other schools to follow suit. As we know, none of the Tibetan Buddhist orders would like to play second fiddle to CTA.

In the year he has been away, the Karmapa has been using technology to its fullest advantage, showing how through live streaming and other digital media technologies, Karmapa does not need to be in India to connect with his followers.

Personally I wanted the 13th Religious Conference to happen, I was looking forward to it, because it would be almost certain that one of the results of the meeting would be that the Central Tibetan Administration is dysfunctional and irrelevant.

Jushri

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The Karmapa is smart to get a Dominican passport. Why? BECAUSE: A passport from the Dominican Republic gets you visa-free or visa on arrival access to only 54 countries and territories compared to a passport from China gives you access to 50 countries and a passport from India gets you access to 52 countries.

Since India has made it so difficult for Karmapa to travel freely, a Dominican passport is a good solution for HH. Looks like HH can jet set anywhere around the world now to do his work.

And now India is about to lose a Buddhist leader to a small republic on the other side of the globe. India should NEVER listen to CTA as CTA's agendas are never beneficial to anyone but their Sikyong's bank account. It's not that the Karmapa is acting defiantly against India, it is more like HH is telling CTA that as a "government", they no longer have any power over him.

Jushri

Harold Musetescu

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Another strike against the Dalai Lama and HIS CTA.

Karmapa is DONE with their CIRCUS.

He's a free man and no longer has to live literally under the Dalai Lama's roof anymore.

So who's going to be the REGENT when the Dalai Lama dies?

Did anyone HEAR the D.L. or the CTA say anything about the next REGENT?

No mention of the 11th Panchen Lama being the next REGENT by the Dalai Lama.

Why the SILENCE on the next REGENT??

DharmaSpace

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India wants back their 'spy', I think its really funny, that the GOI(government of India) still thinks the 17th Karmapa as a potential China spy, what would be the motivation for that? GOI wants the Karmapa because the Karmapa could be one of the leading lamas in the absence of the Dalai Lama, with the Karmapa back within India's borders, GOI will have more chips to bargain with China.

The Karmapa refused to return to India, via the suggested method by the Indians using the GOI issued Identity Certificate, and the Karmapa wanted to use his new citizenship from Dominican Republic. People not used to observing the Karmapa could mistake the Karmapa as being a business person rather than a spiritual man that he is. But the Karmapa for me is a genuine practitioner who is just very tired from many quarters and parties trying to use him for their own means and betterment.

CTA want back their resource so they can use the Karmapa to control other Tibetans. The Karmapa in defying CTA, who has nurtured him since his great escape to India, well the signs of his defiance has been all too well apparent, with Ogyen Trinley recently meeting up with the other Karmapa candidate, totally without CTA support and backing and getting a new citizenship.

The Karmapa is showing us the way, that the CTA is not infallible, and can make really huge mistake, it should give encouragement to Dorje Shugden people and Tibetans not to be cowed by the CTA. CTA is supposed serve their people and not lord over them. Dorje Shugden people especially people who are practicing Dorje Shudgen in secret, people who were forced to capitulate at the height of the ban, now it is the time to raise their heads and defy CTA and the Dorje Shudgen ban one of many flawed policies of the CTA. Would be so awesome if Tibetans in South India restart their Dorje Shugden practices once more and in the shops people start putting up Dorje Shugden statues once again.   












kris

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This is quite strange to me, because this Karmapa is closely associated with Dalai Lama, and supposedly have a close relationship with India. We all know that India has been extremely kind to Tibetans in exile, by giving them so many freedom, including the travel document to travel overseas. Tell me which other refugee can travel to other countries so freely?

Anyway, why India become upset with associates of HH Dalai Lama? Strange right? Does it mean HH Dalai Lama is getting less favourable among the Indians? Has the relationship gone sour or something? It is only common sense that India will get upset with Karmapa if He get a Dominican Republic passport, then why didn't HH Dalai Lama advise Him not to do it? This Karmapa got His recognition through HH Dalai Lama, then why didn't He listen to HHDL?

Is this something more that we are not seeing right now?

Ringo Starr

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It was one year ago when the Karmapa posted these pictures on his official website:

https://kagyuoffice.org/the-gyalwang-karmapa-meets-with-sikyong-lobsang-sangay/


As they say, a picture paints a thousand words.

One picture shows the glum looking Karmapa with the Tibetan leadership including Kaydor Aukatsang who is based in America and who is involved in the financial irregularity scandal at the Dalai Lama Trust. The scandal was revealed by Penpa Tsering and which has been (as usual) swept under the carpet.

The other is an official picture of the meeting which shows utter disrespect for the Karmapa, pushed slightly to the background in the picture.

When I saw these pictures on the Karmapa's official website last year, I told myself that this is a sign of protest by the Karmapa because he could have chosen other pictures to post. Indeed if we follow what has happened in the 12 months following the meeting last year, there is no doubt that the Karmapa is, amongst other things, fed up of the way he has been shabbily treated by the Tibetan leadership.

After that meeting last December, one of the actions that the Karmapa took was to obtain a passport from Dominica which has allowed for free travel to many countries, likely to enable the Karmapa to travel to fulfill his role in turning the wheel of Dharma, something he could not have easily done under the watch of the CTA and Indian government for the last 18 long years.

Let us not forget that amongst the monks who are pro-Dalai Lama, the Karmapa is the most senior and who was likely to have taken the leadership position after the Dalai Lama is gone. That is probably why the Tibetan leadership and people such as Lobsang Sangay had all the reason to ensure that he is "controlled" and behaves according to their wishes. India too in the past.

Now that equation has been nullified by the Karmapa who shows no intent of joyously returning to India; India who is now keener to work with China on business, trade and regional security and severely downgrade the Tibetan cause as a strategic point to irk China; and a Tibetan leadership whose credibility is melting like the glaciers of the Himalayas. The official state protector deities of Tibet have admonished the Tibetan leadership and if reports are true, His Holiness had several expletives thrown at Lobsang Sangay recently too.

To me there is no fault that can be pinned onto the Karmapa - he is just doing what he needs to do to facilitate turning the wheel of Dharma. Anyone in his position and holding that responsibility would have run away from the political machinations to set himself up for a long career in the Dharma proper.



 






Harold Musetescu

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If the Karmapa would return to India via his "Indian Identity Card" the Indian Government could arrest him.

He would not be presenting himself to Indian Immigration as a Dominican Citizen but as an "Indian Refugee".

This would mean legally in India he is NOT a Dominican citizen but one of their own and subject to THEIR LAWS.

He would not be protected by his Dominican passport if he was arrest.

I was a Canadian Immigration Officer (Investigator and Intelligence Officer) for over 13 year and I know what I speak of.

The Indian Government could criminal charge him with those old allegation of hiding over $1 million dollars in his monastery (Tax Evasion).

This could be what his lawyers have told him and why he wants to enter India as a Dominican citizen.

Joo Won

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Now the Karmapa is the reason behind the postponement of the 13th Buddhist confenrence... Oh no, CTA is punishing Karmapa, Delhi is blaming the Kamarpa to divert the attention...

I would think the possibilities of the 13th Religious Conference of the Schools of Tibetan Buddhism to be successfully held is quite slim may be even since the beginning. China definitely would not wish to see a conference involving over 150 particiapnts from all lineage holders and heads of monasteries in India and
Nepal to be held on the soil of India. Buddhism has became a new frontier in the China-India rivalry. For both China and India, Buddhism is a useful enhancer of cultural soft power.

For China, another reason is one of the main purpose of the conference is to discuss the issue on the reincarnation of HH Dalai Lama. China always wants to control the next reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.

India does want the conference to be held, but with the thawing of China-India bilateral ties, how much risk Delhi is willing to take to offend Beijing by holding the conference? To turn the spotlight to Kamarpa and him getting a Dominican passport is more face saving thatn telling the world Delhi is kowtowing to Beijing. I am puzzled that the Kamarpa has been getting the Dominica passport for two months and why only now it became an issue?

By the way, what is problem of the Karmapa getting a Dominican passport? Lobsang Sangay and so many Tibetan leaders all having American, Canadian and other passport to travel the world freely. Why not a Buddhist head getting one to travel around the world easily to meet his folllowers? Lobasang Sangay is always travelling, from America to Africa to meet and lobby for his "cause". Why not the Karmapa to travel to give teachings? It has been a long time the Karmapa arrived and staying in India, but he was under house arrest and not having any freedom to move around and giving teachings, thus it's time he leaves India. Even lay Tibetans are leaving India to European countries or Nepal, why not the Kamarpa?

It's a wise move to leave India, so the Kamarpa is no more under CTA's control and monitoring, especially now CTA is falling. CTA has offered the Kamarpa nothing in the past and would not be able to offer anything in future as well.

Rowntree

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You don't understand. Everything the CTA blamed China on doing, violation of human rights and suppression of religious freedoms, are the same thing that the CTA does also. They blame Karmapa of having a Dominican passport while they themselves hold passports of other countries also. Whatever they blame others, they do themselves. The CTA is a bunch of hypocrites.

With the Karmapa, in particular, they do not like the fact that the Karmapa is no longer their puppet. They hate it because they cannot manipulate him for their selfish agendas. They are jealous that he can travel around the world and get donations without sharing them with the CTA.

The CTA is very easy to figure out. As long as you refuse to follow their ways, they will defame you, hurt you, boycott you,

By the way, what is problem of the Karmapa getting a Dominican passport? Lobsang Sangay and so many Tibetan leaders all having American, Canadian and other passport to travel the world freely. Why not a Buddhist head getting one to travel around the world easily to meet his folllowers? Lobasang Sangay is always travelling, from America to Africa to meet and lobby for his "cause". Why not the Karmapa to travel to give teachings? It has been a long time the Karmapa arrived and staying in India, but he was under house arrest and not having any freedom to move around and giving teachings, thus it's time he leaves India. Even lay Tibetans are leaving India to European countries or Nepal, why not the Kamarpa?

Tracy

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Why is India angry at the Karmapa for getting a Dominican passport? If they are unhappy, they should question the CTA. The Karmapa was under the supervision and control of the CTA before, how is that they can allow Karmapa travelled out of India and got himself a passport?

If the Karmapa is ungrateful for getting a Dominican passport, how about the CTA and Lobsang Sangay? Many of them in the CTA also hold a passport of another country.  Apart from that, the CTA has not given anything back to India after 60 years. If India wants to be angry, be angry at the CTA.

I think the Karmapa got himself a Dominical passport is not out of his selfish wish. When he can move around freely, he will be able to spread Dharma to many. A high lama like him should not become a political tool and a puppet of the CTA. I hope the Karmapa will travel more and more to spread Dharma all around the world.