Why so vulgar?

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For centuries Tibetans were isolated from the world because of the imposing Himalayan range. In this environment where exposure was limited to information delivered by a few adventurous Westerners, Japanese and Chinese, everyone grew to share the same opinion – the Tibetan leadership is always right, and their opinion overrides everyone else’s.

When the Tibetans fled into exile in the 1950s, they carried this attitude with them and over the years, little has changed. Although they have since been exposed to various cultures, ideologies and beliefs, they have also discovered that not everyone agrees with their views about religion and politics, and that their views on religion, if compared to democratic countries, are quite archaic and outdated. Unused to dealing with a difference of opinions, many have resorted to reacting the only way they know how.

Thus in a case of the cyber world imitating the real world, it has become commonplace for Dorje Shugden practitioners to be met with violent, abusive language on the Internet as well as death threats and actual physical violence. When Dorje Shugden devotees try to raise awareness about the lack of religious freedom and how they cannot practice their beliefs without discrimination, Tibetans react with vulgarities and threats. There are many examples of this which we have attached for you.

This language reflects the violent tendencies of the Tibetan people, and only shows that Dorje Shugden practitioners cannot freely express their beliefs. The instant a Dorje Shugden practitioner talks about their belief that religious freedom should be given to all, they are immediately issued with death threats, vulgar words and abusive, violent language. This is across the board, and applies to anyone in the Tibetan community whose opinion differs from the Tibetan government on matters such as the dilemma of autonomy or full independence for Tibet, the approach towards this goal and the loss of Tibetan culture with the Tibetans migrating around the world.

So if Tibetans are capable of such violence online, what are they capable of in the real world? We at DorjeShugden.com wish to pose a number of questions:

  1. Is this type of behavior and language taught at the Dalai Lama’s teachings? That those who practice Dorje Shugden should be sworn at and spat on?
  2. Is the Dalai Lama aware of his followers’ behavior? If he is, has His Holiness previously advised his students to refrain from such language and behavior? If the Dalai Lama has not given such advice, why is he remaining silent on the matter? Is his silence actually his approval and support for their abhorrent language?
  3. Do the Tibetans who direct such language towards Dorje Shugden supporters believe that their behavior reflects the Dalai Lama in a positive light? People who do not know Buddhism will see things very simply – if the Dalai Lama’s students are kind and compassionate, then it is because their teacher has taught them to be kind and compassionate. If the Dalai Lama’s students are vulgar and violent, then they must have learned it from somewhere.
  4. You can see clearly in videos that prior to attending the Dalai Lama’s talk, or directly after, the pro-Dalai Lama Tibetans are violent against the Dorje Shugden practitioners who have come to protest peacefully. Is this appropriate behavior for people who are there to receive teachings on compassion, love, tolerance and forbearance? How can they be violent outside of the teaching arena and then, upon walking inside, fold their hands and offer a khata (silk scarf wishing long life) to a man of peace? Does that make sense? The Tibetan leadership should curtail this type of behavior because it looks very fundamentalist, extremist and not befitting of the Dalai Lama’s spiritual stature. Remember many Tibetans are now living in free, democratic countries and their violent intolerant behavior against peaceful protesters will not be tolerated in these countries. Do not embarrass your leadership with your behavior.

While democratic nations treat religious freedom as an automatic human right, it would seem that religious freedom is still quite a difficult concept for many Tibetans to grasp. Freedom of worship is the connection of a person to a supreme being, supernatural being or any being that the person deems worthy of worship. The Tibetan leadership goes as far as saying that the Dorje Shugden worship is not even a religion, and thus the ban has nothing to do with religious freedom. However, the devotees of Dorje Shugden worship him as a supreme being, and pray and make offerings to invoke his blessings. If that is not deemed a religion or religious worship, then what is?

In reality, the situation is quite simple. Those who support the Dalai Lama should remember that their actions reflect their teacher. Every time they write vulgarities, rude comments, violent thoughts and wish ill-will towards Dorje Shugden practitioners, are they reflecting the Dalai Lama well? So if the Dalai Lama’s supporters were REALLY devoted then they should practice the message that their teacher travels all over the world to spread – compassion should be extended to everyone, regardless of whether they agree or disagree with your views. Scholars of Tibetan Buddhism should stop looking for ‘reasons’ to eliminate the practice of Shugden but embrace and accept religious freedom. After all, the greatest scholars of Tibet such as Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Panchen Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, 30th Sakya Throneholder Sonam Rinchen, 31st Sakya Throneholder Kunkhyen Ngawang Kunga Lodroe, 33rd Sakya Throneholder Padma Dudul Wangchug, 35th Sakya Throneholder Tashi Rinchen, 37th Sakya Throneholder Kunga Nyingpo, 39th Sakya Throneholder Dragshul Thinley Rinchen, 41st Sakya Throneholder H.H. Sakya Trizin, Kyabje Lati Rinpoche, Drayab Gyabgon, Geshe Rabten, Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche, Geshe Tendar, Geshe Ngawang Dhargye, Geshe Kenrab, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche – and the list goes into the hundreds for the last 350 years – have validated and taught Dorje Shugden is a pure and beneficial practice. No Scholar today can rival those great masters both learned and realized from the past.

In fact, since Dorje Shugden practitioners are considered errant, they should be shown more compassion, more wisdom, more tolerance, more understanding. After all, a Buddhist’s compassion should reflect that of the Buddhas who have even more compassion for those afflicted with suffering and ignorance. Therefore Dorje Shugden practitioners should be granted full human rights, the freedom to worship and be allowed to participate in mainstream Tibetan activities and all public events by the Dalai Lama.

Let us hypothetically say that their worship of Dorje Shugden is incorrect. Should that not raise the alarm that, more so compared to everyone else, they need to come for the teachings so that they can gain wisdom and eventually, through wisdom, “reject” this practice? Why reject those who are ‘evil’ or deemed misguided? Why throw them out into the cold to suffer? Nurturing them and not alienating them should be practiced by the Tibetan leadership. Furthermore, as leaders, they should find ways to unite their citizens by common values, not separate them by religious differences. All Tibetans whether Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, Bon, Nyingma, Gelug, Sakya, Kagyu, Shugden practitioners, young, old, male and female should be embraced by the Tibetan leadership as one nation and have full rights. Religion should never create nor have any part in dissension fueled by the leadership themselves.

The Dorje Shugden issue, the undemocratic ban and the suppression of Dorje Shugden devotees will not go away, disappear or be swept under the rug. The unfairness and dissatisfaction that arises from this ban is reaching and saturating mainstream media, so more and more people are becoming aware of this issue. Upholding the ban will only serve to damage the Tibetan cause, not because Dorje Shugden and his devotees are evil, but because the ban against them is unfair and incorrect. If the Tibetan leadership wants this problem to go away, they should remove the ban, effective immediately. They should be just like the democratic nations of the world who uphold their constitutions by allowing individuals any form of religious worship they choose or not.

The pro-Dalai Lama supporters should reflect their leadership well by being kind, even mannered, controlled, compassionate and tolerant.

 

Samples of abusive language

Scroll down to see a selection of more intolerant, abusive language that is directed at Dorje Shugden practitioners, including death threats and vulgarities. Click to enlarge the images to their full size.

 

Threats to Adar Tsering

Adar Tsering, a prominent Dorje Shugden practitioner, is regularly issued threats such as these which imply harm, if not death itself, will come to him soon. Is this appropriate behaviour for the Dalai Lama’s followers who learn about compassion and tolerance from the man of peace?

 

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Reactions on Facebook

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Reactions on YouTube


This man was escorted out of the 14th Dalai Lama’s teaching in Frankfurt, Germany, May 2014, after expressing his need for religious freedom. Notice the violence and vulgarity he experienced on his way out. Is this how people who are sitting in a hall to learn about compassion, should really behave? How is violence arising from anger in any way compatible with peace and harmony?


Tibetans greeting the Dalai Lama in Oslo, Norway on May 7, 2014 were encouraged to cheer more loudly as the Dalai Lama stepped out of his car. Up until the Tibetan crowd cheered, the Dorje Shugden protesters could clearly be heard calling for religious freedom.

The timing of the Tibetan official’s encouragement was not a coincidence, and clearly designed to ensure the Dalai Lama would not hear the protesters. Why would a Tibetan official in democratic Norway be encouraging his own people to suppress freedom of speech?

 


Rotterdam, May 2014 – Tibetans on the way to attending a talk on compassion, love and tolerance by the Dalai Lama showed no compassion, love or any understanding towards the Dorje Shugden practitioners who assembled to peacefully protest the ban against Shugden. They peacefully requested the Dalai Lama to lift the ban as it was unfair and took away the religious freedom of millions of Dorje Shugden practitioners around the world. They have petitioned the Dalai Lama many times in the last 15 years and no dialogue or meeting was ever allowed. The Dalai Lama always promotes dialogue but for the Shugden practitioners, the rules would be different.

 


The Tibetan attending the Rotterdam talks were spitting on the protesters and even threw feces at the protesters. The security were not happy with the Tibetans attending the Dalai Lama’s talk at all and found them contradictory to what was being taught while the protesters were peaceful and had permits and full right to be there and protest. The issue of the unfair and undemocratic Dorje Shugden ban will not go away until His Holiness the Dalai Lama lifts the ban. Mainstream press is picking this story up and circulating all over the world. Dalai Lama should respect all religious practice and allow all to practice all religions and forms of worship as they like without bias and ostracizing. We Dorje Shugden practitioners that number in four million world wide request His Holiness the Dalai Lama to lift the ban and prejudice against Dorje Shugden practitioners world wide. The minute the ban is lifted, we will not protest or make any more issues of this.

 


Tibetans react angrily to Dorje Shugden practitioners outside Radio City Music Hall, New York. Reliable neutral sources say the crowd was provoked to react in this way.

 


Tibetans in Mundgod, South India participated in a riot organized and incited by the Tibetan leadership. The 3000-strong mob threatened to burn down the monastery should they gain access to it, as the Dorje Shugden monks remained inside reciting their prayers.

 


The Dalai Lama encourages the expulsion of monks from the monasteries, should they wish to continue practicing Dorje Shugden.

 

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  1. It is clear for all to see that those who disparage Dorje Shugden and his practitioners do not have much to say which are constructive and indeed factual. I have noticed that the case against Shugden are always a distortions of the truth and downright abusive if not in language, then in content. But then again, what can they say which is true? And so they resort to attacks as their own form of defence.

    For all the accusations against Shugden people being ‘violent’ there is not a single case being reported in over 350 years of history of such aggression. You just never hear of it. On the other hand, the opposite is true of those who oppose the ancient practice. The Dalai Lama himself when addressing a Tibetan audience especially monks does not even bother to disguise his contempt for a people who just want to carry on with their belief. All the disguise and charade are reserved for the people in the West who would not stand for such abuse. With such precedence it is not surprising that Dalai Lama sycophants and those who believe blindly follow suit.

    The Dalai Lama so often speak of the Nalanda Tradition which is in fact based on discussions and persuasive debates to uncover the truth. In fact all Buddhist traditions are based on similar approaches instead of this medieval bullying. Shame.

  2. ‘the Tibetan leadership is always right, and their opinion overrides everyone else’s’

    Sounds like the NKT.

    ‘When the Tibetans fled into exile in the 1950s, they carried this attitude with them and over the years, little has changed. Although they have since been exposed to various cultures, ideologies and beliefs, they have also discovered that not everyone agrees with their views about religion and politics, and that their views on religion, if compared to democratic countries, are quite archaic and outdated. Unused to dealing with a difference of opinions, many have resorted to reacting the only way they know how’.

    ‘This language reflects the violent tendencies of the Tibetan people….’

    Hang on, I thought the majority of Dorje Shugden practitioners were Tibetan?

    ‘that their views on religion, if compared to democratic countries, are quite archaic and outdated’.

    I thought you were protesting against a so called ban on a tradition dating back hundreds of years.

    ‘When Dorje Shugden devotees try to raise awareness about the lack of religious freedom and how they cannot practice their beliefs without discrimination, Tibetans react with vulgarities and threats.’

    ‘Tibetans react with vulgarities and threats’.

    ‘This language reflects the violent tendencies of the Tibetan people….’

    ‘….. their views about religion and politics, and that their views on religion, if compared to democratic countries, are quite archaic and outdated.’

    Ouch!

    If the above are really your views on the Tibetan people and they are based on truth then how would you expect them to behave any differently?

    Your comments here invalidate anything which follows.

  3. 1st they believe in wrathful actions
    2nd all Tibetans in my experience no matter what they practice tell each other off very harshly. So when they see any fault they must come down very hard on it as the norm.
    Mix that with western culture, the lack of monastic education of the lay people and you get the bad language mixed with political devotion, as well as a lot of emotions about China. Those people all have stories of their relatives being treated cruelly and the feeling that the Dalai Lama really cares about what happened to their relatives. Its a very passionate & emotional mix.
    What these people need to realise is to love their Tibetan ancestors from the heart is what truely protects Buddhism & all the beautiful things of Tibets history.
    To deny the masters of the past is to truely lose Tibet. Tibet IS its Buddhist masters eg Milarepa & the more recent ones also.
    You Tibetans fear you will have no Buddhist master is you lose the Dalai lama. But what you need to realise is the Dalai lama is making himself the sole master..suppressing all others. If he dissappeared, MANY masters would appear. There are many Tibetan masters with equal qualification & skill as the Dalai lama- many with higher qualification. These have been forced into silence so only 1 person can speak…only one person is qualified. Do you want only 1 person teaching or many teachers giving you talks on wisdom & compassion & lamrim? It is your choice but the Shugden issue is simple. The Dalai lama used Shugden to get full authority and control & terrify the other lamas into silence. He chose to attack someone who cannot answer back ie rather than attack a living Buddhist master …attack a deity practice. He destroys anyone who dares to question him. He is constantly seeking to gain fame. These are not spiritual minds. His word are beautiful but they are the words of the masters he is silencing. He is making sure he gets all the credit for these words & noone else. The one Buddhist master model is a recipe for Buddhism to be lost. If there are many Masters when one dies you still have all the others. This is far healthier & keeps Buddhism always in a strong position.
    A true master rejects fame & shares his power with other masters letting them sit on HIS throne. This is a sign of someone qualified. Their disciples come out of a teaching full of love & if they saw people chanting a protest across the street they would stand in front of them praying & tell them words of love.
    Look in your stories of sages & yogis you can see how they dealt with these situations. Its very different. They always wanted to talk & get to the truth. They never wanted people to be killed & when they did argue it was an arguement between two people who deeply loved each other eg Milarepa & Marpa & Rechungpa

  4. OMB…

    Firstly I would like to thank ds.com for compiling all these, I truly agree with what you say.

    Secondly, if you look at the way the people who came out with bad words, and having rude action in the videos, can you guess who is “worshiping spirit”?

    Yes HHDL is so great and kind, but the students are so rude and vulgar. Religion is something to change people’s life to become better, happier; if you say worshiping Dorje Shugden is not a religion, then spitting and showing middle fingers after attending a Guru’s talk are the actions of real religion practitioners?

    Watching the videos I thank the police officers or guards for preventing the rude “religion practitioners” from attacking the protestants of Dorje Shugden. If I were one of the police officer who didn’t know about the ban and controversial, I would think people who attend HHDL’s talk are those who worship spirit and evil.

    I am sorry His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, shame on your students.

  5. @john swainson why get personal and mention NKT? Lets talk about the issues at hand.

    What I have also noticed is Tibetans tend to be more vulgar in using profanities in the cyberworld, Tibetans are supposed to be more spiritual due to Buddhist influences and many spiritual practitioners in their country for the past thousand years or so. The anti Dorje Shugden faction who are ethnically Tibetans what kind of dharma practice are they engaging in when they curse and call names of others.

    Yes the ban makes life difficult for practitioners, and other Buddhist hassle us and looks at us funny give us a hard time on social media and in general do not want to associate with us yet we do not resort to profanities. For those in India there is the additional verbal abuse, past incidences of physical and mental violence. On dorjeshugden.com for the website and social media they fight against the ban, but they do not use curse words and profanities to bring our message across despite the so many articles written.

    The use of profanities reminds me of the story in the Lamrim whereby a brahmin was goaded and encouraged by his mother into using foul language onto monks. He could not overcome the monks through encouraged by his mother, he called the monks goat head, and all manner of animal heads in order to win the debate. In his next life he was born as a sea monster with 18 heads and Buddha Shakyamuni chanced upon him and asked to explain how he got such a rebirth. Spiritualists do not rely on fould words

    Two techniques employed by such anti shugden of Tibetan ethnicity one is profanity and the other is silence. What they never like to address after they make accusations of Dorje Shugden people being Chinese collaborators or Dorje Shugden is a spirit are of the nature below :-

    1) When we talk about Nechung being a Spirit King and that CTA and the Dalai Lama consults it. Nechung arising as a worldly dharma protector is well documented and acknowledged throughout the centuries. Why the inconsistency in the treatment? Nechung has given so many incorrect advise leading to harm to the Dalai Lama’s life also. Dorje Shugden saved the Dalai Lama’s life.

    Dorje Shugden arose from a realized master, with the line of incarnations stemming from Birwapa to Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen. Nechung who was subdued by Guru Rinpoche first waged a war on Padmasambhava. I can hear a pin drop. Why avoid this subject matter altogether?

    2) Dorje Shugden practitioners are blamed to be Chinese spies and perpetrators, there is couple of million of us out there, surely the CTA with its intelligence network can dig out transaction accounts to proof to their own Tibetans we are indeed Chinese Mata Hari or collaborators.
    Another pin dropped.

    The ban clearly has created the Tibetans to be more unruly now, this is a spin off effect from the Dorje Shugden ban. Also it reveals the vulnerabilities of CTA’s governance and administrative capabilities. They are not able to bring Tibetans in exile to be better, cohesive, modern and being able to hold their own on the international arena (just watch how the Tibetans behaved in NYC when confronted with peaceful Dorje Shugden protestors). With the Tibetans under such leadership what hope is there for any form of autonomy or independence. Not forgetting that Tibetans oppress Dorje Shugden people and practitioners, there is such a thing as karma. How can oppression lead to freedom?

    CTA like many governments in the past when they could not solve domestic issues or their goals were thwarted and they cannot find a way through then it is scapegoat time. The easiest scapegoats are Dorje Shugden and its practitioners to blamed from everything under the sun. CTA misdirection at its best. I urge all Tibetans stop falling for CTA’s delaying tactics, they don’t have a clue about returning all of you back to the Tibetans homeland and they are just buying time. Throwing to the Tibetans lies and coverups for their failures. Arab have had their Arab Spring when will the Tibetans have theirs?

  6. There are people who can give up practicing Dorje Shugden but cannot give up cursing words. How ironic.

  7. If this is how Tibetans behave it is very shocking indeed. I have high regards for Tibetan because they have been living with Buddha Dharma for so long. It would have taken sufficient amount time for Buddhism to integrate into their culture. Buddha is the best teacher. If Dalai Lama is regarded so highly by the Tibetans then it wouldn’t make sense to do one thing in front of teacher, in this case a living Buddha and doing the opposite when out of his sight. If that is the case then what would happen to majority us people in the world who doesn’t practice Buddhism. Are we doomed? Do CTA take Buddhism as a live teaching which they live by or another political tool to manipulate public opinion for their own agendas?

  8. Why so outspoken about Dorje Shugden practitioner? You give up practicing Dorje Shugden, you don’t need to keep on telling Dorje Shugden practitioner off. It is like you give up university, you don’t need to keep on telling university graduates off.

  9. someone once said, if you want to see how attain is the Guru, you can just look at the behaviour of his/her students. Based on this logic, looking at the behaviour of the students, we can conclude the level of HH Dalai Lama. Of course we all know HH Dalai Lama is very attained, but why are his students behave as such? If they really love their Guru, they really should behave.

    May be part of the reasons why the violence is because HH Dalai Lama Himself is quite notorious towards the Dorje Shugden practitioners (based on the many videos where HH Dalai Lama who openly scold the Dorje Shugden practitioners during His Dharma talk, and the video where He scolded the nun). Also, since HH Dalai Lama didn’t disapprove their violent actions, they would take it as OK to behave as such. But they forgot that the world is watching and it make HH Dalai Lama really bad.

    We may have different opinion, and that is OK, but let’s be civilised, can we? We Dorje Shugden practitioners wanted a dialogue with HH Dalai Lama for many many years but HH Dalai Lama just conveniently ignore this while keep asking other religions to have dialogue. What an irony?!

  10. After reading the above article, my first thought is those followers of Dalai Lama and the Tibetan leaders should really sit down to think what they had done so far caused the damage to their guru. I truly believe that His Holiness will not teach them to act violent, issue any death threats and throw out some vulgar statement or abusive words. I sincerely hope the pro Dalai Lama supporters after reading the above article can aware and regret on their exaggerated actions. I always think that there is never too late that those people can aware of their wrongdoing and not to do it anymore from now onwards. I urge the pro Dalai lama supporters, please remember what you have learned from His Holiness Dalai Lama, is compassion, kind, peace maker, tolerant or cruel, vulgarities, violent, abusive, harsh. Please do think about it.

  11. Thank you ds.com for sharing how these people have been doing to manipulating the situation in such a low class way. Looking at the way those anti-shugden people react… I feel so scared and life threatening simply because I wanted to worship an enlightenment dharma protector for my dharma practice. They way these people spoke and react was so over exaggerated. People who can react like this with such vulgar speech and violence showed how they misused their power to suppress DS practitioners.

    I feel unfair and unreasonable when things turned out sour, these people just blamed everything even the political issues on religion practice and than ban the practice! Buddha taught us equanimity but they are blinded by anger and hatred. Buddha taught about no harm to all sentient being but they harmed their own community even their guru. Buddha taught all sufferings created by ourselves hence we must transform our mind not blaming on others. On top of that they called themselves Buddhist?

    What’s so wrong about practicing DS? DS helped us so much day in day out. DS took care of us like a father and provided us such a good environment and conditions to study Dharma. DS is a wish fulfilling Buddha. Want to free Tibet? practice DS! worship DS!! Stop listening to those who shouted for independent but actually didn’t do anything about it yet torturing and blaming their own community who had have suffered enough. Shame shame!!

  12. Swear words, vulgarities, profanities are used by people with little education, gangsters and those who have no dharma and no respect for others’ rights.

    This article is very well documented with proof of hooliganism acted out by the anti Dorje Shugden supporters, supporters who blindly follow the Tibetan spiritual leadership and the Central Tibetan Administration.

    It is quite normal to have supporters from both sides but the pro Dorje Shugden supporters did not use hooligan words in their protests. But the anti-Dorje Shugden supporters including women were shouting profanities and showing vulgar signs to the pro Dorje Shugden supporters. Really, was all this necessary?

    And when readers make comment on this platform in support of Dorje Shugden, those who opposed used cursed and swear words against them. Clearly, it shows those hooligans are not educated people and lack the intelligence and wisdom to debate, hence they resorted to vulgarities.

  13. The article at the head of this discussion said thus……

    ……‘Tibetans react with vulgarities and threats’.

    …….‘This language reflects the violent tendencies of the Tibetan people….’

    ‘….. their views about religion and politics, and that their views on religion, if compared to democratic countries, are quite archaic and outdated.’

    Leaving aside the Shugden issue, I raised the point that these comments are denigrating toward the Tibetan people..

  14. Dear John Swainson,

    My husband is a Tibetan. He agrees with the article and does not find it racist in one bit. His 20 over Tibetan friends and relatives agree fervently with this article and feel it’s high time this issue was brought out in the open. Millions in Tibet are not pro-Dalai Lama for your information. Why are pro-Dalai Lama activists so vulgar and violent on the whole?

    This article is referring to the pro-Dalai Lama supporters who ARE violent, issue death threats and attack Shugden people. And not to the Tibetans on the whole. Someone has to speak up about them.

    Of course there are wonderful Tibetans like the four million who practice Shugden and do not let their religious freedom be trampled on by the Tibetan leadership. They are not wonderful because of their Shugden devotion, but they refuse to allow their rights to be taken away. They stand up to the Tibetan leadership. And when they do so, they are branded as Pro-China or taking money from Chinese government. If it was only that easy to get money from China or any government!

    Your attempt to redirect the attention to racism is unfair attempt to eliminate the real issue of religious freedom and the sufferings of many Tibetans who have been beaten, silenced or forced into hiding due to their religious beliefs. This must be exposed to the world. If you investigate, the evidence is overwhelming. I hope you and many others will investigate.

    Pat

  15. How the students or the followers act is a reflection of what they learn from the teacher. If the 14th Dalai Lama practices the compassion and global peace the students or followers should act along the line but why they curse? Why they are so vulgar and even violent to Shugden practitioners? This obviously shows the negative side of their practices instead of just keep saying practicing Shugden is wrong. It doesn’t show the good quality of what we believe it will hold a country by the Tibetan government. No way will they gain freedom for the country as the CTA don’t even know how to create harmony within their own people don’t even need to talk about united the nation. The world should know the shameful act of the Tibetan government (CTA) and request for the freedom of religions by lifting the ban!

  16. An argument/debate is won through wisdom, education and some persuasion. By viewing these people shouting profanities and vulgar words online to get thier point across shows how uneducated their level of mind are. It doesn’t matter if they are tibetans or not, proclaiming themselves as Buddhist already contradicts their speech and actions. The only reason why this article focuses on Tibetans is because Tibet has the image of being very spiritual in their Buddhist philosophy and by acting as pro dalai lama students it does not reflect well in their spiritual practices.

    The only reason why many Tibetans became anti-shugden practitioners is because of their lack of education and only practicing Buddhism on pure faith alone without studying deeper. Having faith is good but it can only get you so far without education and continuous studying of the dharma. Blindly and openly shouting vulgarities and giving death threats and physically hurting shugden practitioners is a huge opposition to Buddha Shakyamuni’s and H.H.D.L.’s teachings.

    With the many highly attained Lama’s and Geshe’s in the passed history practicing Dorje Shugden does that mean they are wrong? Through all that study and opposition against Dorje Shugden in the past only to realise how enlightened DS really is, how is it logicial to suddenly deem DS as an evil spirit? Even when H.H.D.L had even practiced DS himself including His Holiness’s Gurus, students and monasteries, how is it logicial to suddenly ban DS as a religious practice? Afterall those years of consultation and seeking advice from DS to suddenly turn your back against DS, is that really buddhist?

    The basis of dharma is to learn, be educated, study and keep practicing, from there we would crawl out of ignorance. Learn, study, investigate on Dorje Shugden before shouting profanities and debate in a civilised manner, if you still believe DS is evil then at least leave DS practitioners in peace to practice.

  17. All of this seems very silly really. I could write a webpage just like this one stating that American people are racist, intolerant, fascist and violent. Believe me, I could find many quotes from Americans to demonstrate this– many many more than you have here! I could find many instances to demonstrate their violence– many many more than you could ever find demonstrating Tibetan violence! I could point to Barack Obama, who speaks of peace and equal rights, and say that he’s a hypocrite, that the behaviors of these mischievous people prove all sorts of terrible things about him.

    How do you even know that the quotes you are quoting come from students of the Dalai Lama? And are you really saying that every Tibetan agrees with the Dalai Lama and does what he says? And are you saying that every Shugden worshipper is ethically pure and never behaves badly?????? And are there protestors with angry faces shouting outside teachings attended by Shugden worshippers? How peaceful is that?

  18. If a Shugden worshipper behaves badly, does that prove the teacher taught him/her that behavior? I have watched hundreds, probably thousands, of hours of Dalai Lama teachings, public talks, conferences and events and I have NEVER heard him encourage or condone any of the behaviors you describe. It simply isn’t who he is. Full stop. This “secret” Dalai Lama you talk about, the one who condones violence, just isn’t there. He doesn’t exist, like a puppet people have created just to poke holes into.

  19. dear Joanne Clark,
    ..you say: ” I have watched hundreds, probably thousands, of hours of Dalai Lama teachings, public talks, conferences and events and I have NEVER heard him encourage or condone any of the behaviors you describe”:
    yes, he is doing so mostly when he is speaking tibetan to tibetan people, and he is sure he cannot be understood by the world media. But on this website, you can find many of his speeches against DS pratictioners
    and I am very sorry to tell you something “against” you Guru, His Holiness: it’s one of the most painful things to hear, I know very well: but we DS people are experiencing that every day, and I can tell you it’s one of the worst suffering.
    I am a westerner and I approached Tibetan Buddhism about 25 years ago with total faith in His Holiness and sure that I had found the most peaceful and sincere path; then in 1996 these terrible things against Dorje Shugden people started to happen. I can tell you it was a big shock for me.
    Of course, as you are saying, among DS pratictioners there are “good” and “bad” people like everywhere: but this is a persecution. And it cannot be in anyway justified.
    thank you for your attention and happy Vesak day

  20. Buddhism is about compassion, tolerance and equanimity. Not sure that is what we are seeing here and elsewhere. All these vulgarities are making Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhists look really bad and the laughing stock of the international religious community. Oh, sorry, I am such an ignoramus. We are supposed to not be attached to what people say about us-good or bad!

  21. A little history. It is no secret I am a critic of the NKT and the way it operates. I am not opposed to their religious beliefs as these are a matter of personal choice. They are free to practise those beliefs.
    The reason I involve myself by commenting on the Shugden protests is a result of the NKT’s insistence it is not involved in the issue. The NKT was involved in the 90’s and GKG stated the NKT suffered as a result. He later said he would personally organise further protests and asked two members of the NKT to assist him. Since then we see the majority of protesters are NKT members.
    However, that is not your main concern.
    Your concern is with me focussing upon the language in the article and how it could be interpreted as racist. If you remember, I did say the article was poorly written. The opening part of the article does not differentiate between the ’opposing’ groups. It refers to Tibetans.
    Hello Pat. If your husband heard comments about Tibetans referring to the ‘violent tendencies of Tibetan people’ and ‘their’ (Tibetan) ‘views on religion, if compared to democratic countries, are quite archaic and outdated’, would he wish to question such assumptions?
    Both sides have offered their evidence
    I cannot agree to the resolution of a dispute with threats of violence and cannot support any ostracism within communities.

    Both sides have offered their evidence. Disagreements such as the Shugden issue can get very messy and involve much misinformation. When there is an issue of faith there is no definitive answer as to who is right or wrong. It is unfortunate that the issue cannot immediately be resolved without friction and both sides coexist. It is fact that when some people see differences or have their way of life threatened they ‘demonise’ the perceived threat.

    Fake Dalai Lama v’s The Perfidious Spirit

  22. There is so many pieces of evidence to show that the Dalai Lama followers are behaving in ways that completely contradict the fundamental teachings of Lord Buddha and the purpose of Buddhism.

    The 8 verses of mind transformation teach “Whenever I see a person of bad nature, overwhelmed by negative energy and intense suffering, I would hold such a rare one dear as if I have found a precious treasure”. Therefore, if the Dorje Shugden practitioners are really worshipping an evil spirit which will cause them to burn in hell,then, Dalai Lama students should not only avoid causing further harm but treat these “persons of bad nature” like a “precious treasure.

    The very purpose Lord Buddha turned the Wheel of Dharma is to alleviate suffering. How is it possible that students and followers of the great upholder of peace inflict so much fear, pain, violence and vulgarity onto fellow beings of the human realm? It just does not make sense.

    What adds to the senseless irony of the entire Dorje Shugden ban is the failure of the anti-Shugden camp to come up with solid, logical arguments and evidence to support the ban. This lack of substance for the anti-Shugden cause is worsened by the consistent manner in which Dorje Shugden practitioners have been showing evidence to support the benefit of this practice and the credibility of Dorje Shugden as an uncommon enlightened Protector of our time.

  23. Dharmacrazy79

    ‘The very purpose Lord Buddha turned the Wheel of Dharma is to alleviate suffering. How is it possible that students and followers of the great upholder of peace inflict so much fear, pain, violence and vulgarity onto fellow beings of the human realm?’

    Simply because we are in the human realm and to quote the above
    article, Tibetans are supposed to have ‘violent tendencies’!

    Your quote from the 8 verses ‘ “Whenever I see a person of bad nature, overwhelmed by negative energy and intense suffering, I would hold such a rare one dear as if I have found a precious treasure”, is certainly something worthy of aspiration, but how many of us in this human realm can claim success on every occasion? It is easy on the cushion.

    The above article could also be read to say that although Tibetans have ‘violent tendencies’, and have views on religion which are ‘quite archaic and outdated’, we, the Shugdens have managed to overcome these tendencies, but the rest have not.

  24. No class, etiquette and respect. This is really sad.

  25. It is very sad to know that those who did not practice Shugden and supposedly the faithful ones to HHTDL is acting in such a barbaric manner. Supposedly they are the ones who is following the “right” path by not practicing Dorje Shugden which they claimed to be an “evil spirit”. But why are they using these kind of word and manner and at times even harming others in order to stop people from this holy protector which have been practiced by some of the famous highly Attained Masters even the gurus of HHTDL.

    It is a shame they claimed themselves a Buddhist, a practice whereby teaches us to be compassionate by not harming others even our beliefs and view are different. Instead of posting a baseless and vulgar comments why don’t they share or “enlighten” us by sharing why should we stop practicing Dorje Shugden and prove to us that we are wrong and all the Shugden masters are wrong.

    Wouldn’t these be better

  26. As a little kid my mum taught me that those people bullying, acting defensively in a “vulgar” manner, insulting back when being faced with the truth, or simply when being DEBATED, those people were acting out of self-imposed boundaries into which their minds are trapped and they wanted to get rid of their in-comfort by forcing in-comfort onto others by insulting them, ostracizing them, making them feel low and dis-respected.

    Why?
    So they can win.

    But then, she also told me that nobody “wins” like this…
    Nobody “wins” by putting others down, by insulting, by throwing death threats, by segregating, by forcing others to suffer. Nobody wins through these methods.

    This way of acting is unacceptable because it threatens society itself, it threatens the very core of our secular salvation: that we can live together as humans with a relative social peace and have open debate using intelligence and humanity instead of threats and intimidation.

    The type of society that we live in results from a collection of individual behaviors.

    Furthermore, within a Buddhist background it reflects so badly on the practice that these people claim to base their behavior upon and even worse, it casts a bad light onto their spiritual teachers.

  27. When everything is a lie to oppress and discriminate Dorje Shugden practice then there leave no true substance and ground for pro-Dalai Lama supporters to debate. To defend themselves, they resort to vulgarities, profanities, threats and violence. They are wayward and reflect poorly not just on the Dalai Lama but also as Buddhists. Instead of walking the path preached by the Dalai Lama they are derogatory to Tibetan Buddhism. It is utterly shameful of their undharmic and uncivilised act. It is no wonder they lost their homeland and are unable to gain independence let alone autonomy rule. Their negativities are so strong, their karma dragged down the rest of the Tibetans into this situation. It is their own doing as karma is reflective of their action. If they truly believe in karma, all these would not have happened.

  28. 西藏自古以來都是以政教合一来统治藏民,统治阶级的贵族们掌握了所有土地权力,也造就了农奴制度,大部分藏人从出生开始就注定是为贵族地主耕地的农民,贫穷不在话下,也被地主们剝削了受教育的机会。解放以前,西藏可以说没有学校的制度,藏民受教育只能在佛寺中研读佛经。根本没有机会接受其他现代化的知识,造成了藏民们根深蒂固的凡事盲目顺从统治阶级的愚民观念。
    可是到了现代这个讲究民主人权的现代,教育普及,民思开放了,在西藏现代化的政策下,废除了农奴制,有了平等受正规学校教育,很多年轻藏民都不是文盲了,开始有了独立思考,会分辨对与錯,更不会再盲从絲毫没有逻辑的雄登禁令 !

  29. What is sad is that the anti-Shugden camp cannot find substantial evidence and cannot use reason and logic to convince all, including Shugden practitioners, that Shugden is a ‘false’ Buddha or that he is a spirit and hence we cannot worship him. Instead they resort to their ‘ammunition’ of vulgarity, profanities and violence to counter and attack Shugden practitioners.

    Shugden practitioners, on the other hand, have used reason and logic and substantial proofs that Dorje Shugden is a compassionate Buddha, a Supramundane Protector.

    Our reasons are many. One of the strongest proofs and reasons to convince us who Shugden is, and for us to continually practice and worship him, is that of the great Shugden masters and pandits, who reincarnate again and again to be powerful practitioners of Shugden , and, equally powerful lineage teachers of Je Tsongkhapa’s teachings, the most powerful and efficacious antidote against suffering and its causes,for the beings of this degenerate age.

    Everyday, when I recite the “Melody of the Unceasing Vajra “( the Prayer and praise to Shugden, written by HH the 14th Dalai Lama), I am filled with great conviction, that this is the true face of the Dalai Lama, not the one, who is now condemning Dorje Shugden as a spirit.

    If anti-Shugdnist make the effort to study and contemplate the Dharma, and acquire knowledge of the Truths in Lord Buddha’s teachings, they would hold their peace forever. They would not continue to condemn and attack Shugden practitioners, for they will come to see Shugden for who He is, a most compassionate Enlightened Being.

  30. For the CTA and Tibetans to have to resolve the Dorje Shugden case by using threat, it is clear to us that they do not have any strong base, fact or proof to negate our choice in continuing with the practice.

    It is also very clear to us that the CTA and non-practitioners are highly insecured about their own choice of banning the practice. This due to them not knowing why the practice is being banned and do not understand the real reason of doing so. When one follows blindly, they’ll be afraid when different opinions are being raised, especially one that comes with strong facts about their wrong choice, because they do not know how to respond, and even if they do – it is a spirit, it is wrong – that will convince no one and they will continue to be challenged.

    Generally people do not like their fault to be pointed out, definitely not having it faults showed nakedly in front of the world. The normal reaction is to fight and protect the fault, which is very contradictory to the non-violence teachings that the Dalai Lama fondly preaches to each and everyone he meets.

    All the evidence showed in the post has once again proven the CTA and Tibetan ways of dealing with things. Though they’ve been exposed to new knowledges and cultures since they fled to India, they seems to remain ignorant and have shown no improvement. I wonder if the world still wish to continue to support their so-called cause of compassion after reading the post.

  31. This comment from Amber Sonam implies that Tibetan culture is inferior.

    All the evidence showed in the post has once again proven the CTA and Tibetan ways of dealing with things. Though they’ve been exposed to new knowledges and cultures since they fled to India, they seems to remain ignorant and have shown no improvement.

  32. When put to a test, the followers of the Dalai Lama have failed miserably. They are not only vulgar but are blinded and ignorant. They are as hypocritical as the spiritual teacher that they worship. What an irony when they attend a talk on compassion but has shown none to a group of people who hold an opposite view to them.

  33. from the comments that these people leave, can feel so much anger within them, the anger that is that they are blindly believe from one source, and denied the truth of the other. Even some comments says that these websites tries to brainwash them, but instead they are the one who is being brainwash by the CTA!

    Being a Buddhist and yet being so vulgar and with so much hatred towards a practice which is ban by HH, is really very unnecessary. Because their action destroy the image of a Buddhist in the eye of the world, where Social Media and Internet is the Key communication of the 21st century.

    But yet on the other hand, their vulgarity and action proves to the world of the truth spiritual Dharma and spirituality of a person. Like what has been written by the author, ” Those who support the Dalai Lama should remember that their actions reflect their teacher. Every time they write vulgarities, rude comments, violent thoughts and wish ill-will towards Dorje Shugden practitioners, are they reflecting the Dalai Lama well?”

  34. I share my comments first with a few definitions:

    1) Spiritual (or Religious) Violence is when someone uses another’s religious beliefs to manipulate, dominate and control them.
    source: http://gov.nl.ca/VPI/types/index.html#5

    2) Cult Definition

    In anthropology, an organization for the conduct of ritual, magical, or other religious observances. Many so-called primitive tribes, for example, have ancestor cults, in which dead ancestors are considered divine and activities are organized to respect their memory and invoke their aid. A cult is also a religious group held together by a dominant, often charismatic individual, or by the worship of a divinity, an idol, or some other object. ( See animism, fetish, and totemism.)

    ****Note : The term cult often suggests extreme beliefs and bizarre behavior.
    source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cults

    I have shared the above 2 definitions because they are what comes to my mind when I read this article. From verbal to physical abuses; from the streets to the cyberspace. Wow… technology and modernization in today’s world has permitted the ignorance and barbaric old ways of Tibetan conduct to flourish far and wide. Sigh… and they want to Free Tibet… sorry to say but perhaps in their next lives when you have developed humanity… and I dare not even ask for enlightenment.

    The worship of Dalai Lama is a cult. Based on the results and actions, can we blame me and perhaps more like me to think this way. Compassion, kindness, loving and virtues are cover up jargon to attract the weak minded to listen to the indoctrination of cult behavior – EXTREME beliefs and BIZARRE behavior. A cult behavior is the only way to explain why the followers go in to learn all the holy stuff and then come out and they are the worse with profanity in words and gestures.

    And nothing is done to stop this not even by the HHDL. Therefore, he condones it. Thus, he operates a cult. Excuse me for being rude, I know that it is but I cannot but express what the actions of HHDL’s students show evidently. Sad. Very sad. May Dorje Shugden have compassion on them which he obviously does by the simple fact that they can still be alive to behave this way.

    If Shugden was indeed an evil spirit would he not already have casted some evil spell on these abusers? Think about that? So may buses around, would not an accident have occured? No nothing ill befell on them. There…let results speak for itself. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and is a worshiped religion. Believers of HHDL are cultist not Buddhist.

  35. ‘Those who support the Dalai Lama should remember that their actions reflect their teacher’.

    OK. Quotes from Shugden supporters.

    ‘They are not only vulgar but are blinded and ignorant.’

    ‘They are as hypocritical as the spiritual teacher that they worship’.

    ‘Though they’ve been exposed to new knowledges and cultures since they fled to India, they seem to remain ignorant and have shown no improvement.’

    ….‘violent tendencies of Tibetan people’ and ‘their’ (Tibetan) ‘views on religion, if compared to democratic countries, are quite archaic and outdated’.

    Do these statements reflect the Shugden teacher?

    The above statements reflect the view that unless the Tibetans have left their cultural ways of thinking, they are inferior,archaic and outdated.

  36. Individual Tibetans have to mind their behaviour and not bring their compatriots’ good name into disrepute. When pro-Dalai Lama supporters lash out their anger with such venom, it only destroy the good image of the Dalai Lama who worked extremely hard in his lifetime as a world renowned peace loving man and hence his people a peaceful race. Such unruly behaviour only makes Tibetans a barbaric race and bring nothing beneficial but great shame to Tibetans.

  37. First and foremost there is the law of karma.

    There’s also religion, there’s politics, there’s culture.
    There’s intellect and there are emotions.

    It is hence not surprising to see some posting vulgarity when confronted with this rather complex issue. It isn’t acceptable form to many, but who is to dictate how individuals react.

    The vulgarity, the blatant lies, the coercion, the violence, the deafness, the silence, the confusion, the biasness, the nepotism, the devotion, all are manifestions of one’s own karma I believe.

    At the end of the day however, hopefully and wishfully, we will get over these obstacles stronger and most importantly wiser. I’m hopeful this will happen as I believe the Buddhas are watching.

  38. To debate and make one’s point clear, we should be using reasons and logics, not by vulgar words. After watching the video of protesting posted above, I am shocked that even women can be so violent and vulgar, they swear, they curse, they spit!

    HHDL teaches respect, compassion, harmony and peace. He says we have to apply what we learn in Buddhism in our lives to find peace, these so-called HHDL supporters or students do not seem to be practising what are preached.

    What harm does Shugden practitioners really do to Tibetans? Shortening HHDL’s life? But he is considered long life at his age? If a spirit can shorten an enlightened being’s life, he must be so powerful. Why not subdue him and make him lengthen HHDL’s life? If the failure to gain freedom for Tibet is also because of him, subdue him like how Padmasabhava did to all the spirit and make him work for CTA to gain freedom for Tibet. If Dorje Shugden has the power to do such bad things, with the same amount of energy, he could do something very good too. For all you know, he might be the best league to work with for CTA!

  39. This is truly barbaric ways to disturb Dharma practitioners…

    Thanks DS.com and the team whose always bring out the truths, simplified and make all the articles, pictures and videos within a glance and just by a simple click…

    “Dorje Shugden practitioners to be met with violent, abusive language on the Internet as well as death threats and actual physical violence. When Dorje Shugden devotees try to raise awareness about the lack of religious freedom and how they cannot practice their beliefs without discrimination, Tibetans react with vulgarities and threats. ”

    “This language reflects the violent tendencies of the Tibetan people, and only shows that Dorje Shugden practitioners cannot freely express their beliefs. The instant a Dorje Shugden practitioner talks about their belief that religious freedom should be given to all, they are immediately issued with death threats, vulgar words and abusive, violent language. This is across the board, and applies to anyone in the Tibetan community whose opinion differs from the Tibetan government on matters such as the dilemma of autonomy or full independence for Tibet, the approach towards this goal and the loss of Tibetan culture with the Tibetans migrating around the world.”

    In Tibetan Buddhism, Guru Devotion play the main part in all practitioners heart, we should follow Guru instructions, advice ect. If HHDL had instructed or adviced His followers to do so can any party show the proof as DS.com??

    Future more, a real practitioners should lesser down their ways to create new negative Karma to able get more Merits towards Enlightenment; violent, abusive language on the Internet as well as death threats and actual physical violence are the actions to create New Negative Karma or Increase Merits??

    As my thought, most of this type of violent, abusive language on the Internet as well as death threats and actual physical violence is done by CTA not really a Dharma practitioners.

    Please please please HHDL, take a serious look into HH followers and students.. Hence make a real actions in time (with folded hands)

    May all sentient beings have happiness and its causes,
    May all sentient beings be free of suffering and its causes,
    May all sentient beings never be separated from sorrowless bliss,
    May all sentient beings abide in equanimity, free of bias, attachment and anger

  40. It is very sad to see that practicing Buddhists and government practicing Buddhism, especially under the teaching of His Holiness Dalai Lama are behaving so vulgar. It is total opposite to the teachings of His Holiness Dalai Lama that focus a lot on compassion, peace, wisdom.
    I believe the people may have been provoked or paid to react in this way, or they have been instilled with all the wrong views until they think that to protect their ‘leader’/‘king’/‘god’, i.e. HH Dalai Lama, it is OK for them to behave in this way to eliminate all his enemies.
    I do hope through creating awareness and spreading the news around, more people will know about how the Shugden practitioners are being treated and create the pressure for the CTA and the anti-Shugden practitioners will take a look at how bad actions that they have done. They do not just creating a lot of bad karma for themselves but also putting down the image of His Holiness.
    Please lift the ban! Please treat all equally with love and compassion!

  41. i feel sad to see HH Dalai Lama follower to use all this bad word to protect their Guru. I feel it strongly they should not do this to others.

    if you are angry, that mean we feel someone do something bad to ourselve. why not to find out the true and prove it ! 

    please don’t use those bad word to show people you are angry.

  42. Language is not violence. It can be vulgar but that is only if it is interpreted to be so by the person reading or hearing. I find lately that lots of things being said by shugdeners to be incredibly vulgar and inflammatory with intent to invoke a negative reaction from those who support HHDL. So why complain about negative reactions when you are so obviously trying your best to get these types of reactions? And saying HHDL is the false Dalai Lama sounds bizarre as he is the only Dalai Lama. If you don’t believe he is true Dalai Lama then who is??? That’s the same as saying that the Moon isn’t the true Moon when its the only one in the sky.

  43. Incredible! This shows clearly that Tibetans are very violent people and not peaceful Buddhist as they portrayed for the world to see.

    They always blame Dorje Shugden people as being harmful and bad but here we have evidence that these pro-Dalai Lama followers are the ones that are harmful. In fact they would get aggressive and violent if need be to anyone against His Holiness. It does not matter if what you are saying is the truth, logical, right or wrong, if you are against the Dalai Lama you will basically be threatened, be treated badly, be persecuted, and possibly be even harmed. Just from the way they act, talk, response, you can tell they sure aren’t very gentle, peaceful, compassionate Buddhist. And all this aggression while they are proceeding to enter to receive teachings on compassion and wisdom?! Wow that is a joke!

    They remind me of extremist, like the Taliban, who would kill all in the name of their “God” and in this case, the Dalai Lama. These are the very wrong view and attitude just like how fanatical Muslim extremist act. They do not even realise that their behaviour represent the Dalai Lama and how it is dragging the Dalai Lama’s reputation down even further and creating a very bad image of Vajrayana Buddhism and Tibetans at large. Already the ban has caused many to lose respect for the Dalai Lama, creating doubts in this “Peaceful holy man”. Makes one wonder what is so great about His Holiness when His own people do not follow His teachings on religious tolerance, compassion and loving-kindness?

  44. There are so much violence and discrimination on Dorje Shugden practitioner, is that how HHDL teaches his student and followers to post death threats, anger and vulgar words on the internet? Where is the Nobel prize winner has gone?

    Everyone have the freedom to religious and the life we want to live, when has this become an issues to HHDL’s followers? When did they have the power to impose their view and right to stop anyone, and further to harm DS practitioner physically? Since when HHDL’s followers become the terrorist? Shocking and disgrace to Buddhism!!!

  45. It’s really shocking to see the followers of Dalai Lama behaving so badly. Their foul language and violence towards practicioners of Dorje Shugden makes people have doubts of their guru’s teachings. Many highly attained lamas in the past had practised Dorje Shugden and many more are now practising too, this shows Dorje Shugden is an emanation of Manjushri. The anti Dorje Shugden people should research more instead of following blindy what Dala Lama said.

  46. Since when does external behavior indicate anything about internal states of mind?

    I work in some of the most dangerous parts of Chicago, shown up at work many times to hear someone got killed last night in the neighborhood. What I saw in these videos was not conducive to peace, but really seemed like whiny cry for attention because people are responding in kind to your antagonistic words.

    Truely, delusions are to blame, never a person’s teacher.

    Otherwise, we’d all have unqualified teachers… Hahahaha…

    Seriously.

    A little humility and less personal attacks. Stick to the issues. I’ve broken up and mediated countless fights at work. Even there, in the midst of murders and violence, people understand words start fights. So ISC stop instigating and choose your words to make clear it’s about religious freedom, not about someone being a crap guru. Or crap practitioners.

    How can anyone say someone else’s guru is not appearing qualified for them? Karma is clear: you want status and respect, you must give it. I know it can be done while standing your ground. I know, with your guru’s blessings and practical skills, you can learn this too. Become the purifying crystal.

  47. Whoever their teacher, practitioners should not react with vulgarities nor harming physically.
    What are we trying to prove? By using vulgarities, we can win a conversation and shut people up?
    All we ever ask for is the freedom to practice Dorje Shugden without being ostracized, harmed nor condemned and the ban to be lifted. You say your Guru is correct, I say my Guru is correct. How does this end?
    What is there to be scared of since HHDL is Buddha? He cant be harmed, so what is the ban really about?
    To create disharmony, arguments among people just to show that their points are correct and to destroy people’s family, faith, samaya, love?

  48. I have quite some Tibetan friends, when I show them this article, they do not have the feeling the post is insulting them or the whole Tibetans.

    It’s directed to those who do not have respect on others’ belief and choices. It’s directed to those who give up their choices to speak their mind with respect, logic and reasons.

    When you cannot respect people’s belief, religion and resort to violence in speech and action; you are losing the world’s respect. And ridiculously, you are asking China’s Communist Party to respect Tibetans’ freedom of religion, freedom to preserve your culture, and your independence. This is double standard, and will not earn respect and support of the world.

    The main purpose of this post is not to criticize “rude” Tibetans as a whole, but violence at all levels by Tibetan leadership to deny the right to religious freedom of Dorje Shugden practisioners. To expose the violence yield by anti Shugden groups.

    The world must know how anti Shugden groups and pro Dalai Lama groups deny the basic human rights of Shudgen practisioners.

  49. It is sad that followers of the Dalai Lama are behaving this way and it gives a bad image for the Dalai Lama. Real dharma practitioners do not act or speak in this manner. These people are barbaric, uncultured, unexposed and they don’t make the effort to learn and understand the truth. It shows that they know so little. If they are practicing real dharma they wont be using harsh and vulgar words.

    The ban is making life difficult for DS practitioners yet they do not create violence or react in harsh manner. Even in all the recent protests, it was all peaceful. On the other hand, it is the anti DS that is creating all the vulgarities and violence towards the DS practitioners.

  50. What is the point of showing such vulgarities to the pro-dorje shugden people? Tibetan’s actions are so uncivilized. I like the part where it says “as leaders, they should find ways to unite their citizens by common values, not separate them by religious differences.” Why is on one hand HHDL is promoting peace and compassion and give talk & education to all around the world and yet he allows his people to perform things which is totally opposite? Hypocrites are so dangerous and their minds are so deluded to even think logically before they act.

    It’s heartbreaking to see many elder Shangha has been affected by this ban and literally they have nothing to defend themselves or even dorje shugden as their life protector.

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Contemplate This

.…Instead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the ‘wrong’ practice. Actually Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong. But hypothetically, if they are, wouldn’t it be more Buddhistic to be accepting? So those who have views against Dorje Shugden should contemplate this. Those practicing Dorje Shugden should forbear with extreme patience, fortitude and keep your commitments. The time will come as predicted that Dorje Shugden’s practice and it’s terrific quick benefits will be embraced by the world and it will be a practice of many beings.

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