Hindu Goddess gives prediction to the Dalai Lama

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This is an interesting video. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is given advice by a young girl who is considered an incarnation of a Hindu Goddess. See for yourself and formulate your own thoughts on the prediction.

Nechung takes trance according to a very zealous Geshe Dorje, that Dalai Lama will visit China, then everything will be ok. Geshe Dorje states when Dalai Lama visits China people will be so happy that they die.

Geshe Dorje perhaps due to language barriers or over-enthusiasm states emphatically people will die from happiness. The video overall is interesting. But you can see to understand for yourself what is the message.



2012: The Tibetans’ fateful year

This documentary was created almost exactly three years ago. It is now 2012 and the Tibetan exiled community doesn’t look like it’s any closer to achieving autonomy. The struggle is still on; Tibetans are still crying for a Free Tibet; the cause for Tibet’s independence is still very much a hot topic within the Tibetan diaspora.

So where is this autonomy? And why aren’t the prophecies coming true? Were all those oracles wrong?

Let’s back-track slightly in this discussion about Free Tibet and oracles. Central to the cause for Tibet’s freedom has also been the ongoing ban of the Protector deity Dorje Shugden. In the mid 1990s, as the fight for freedom became more and more of a bleak possibility, it was declared that the practice of Dorje Shugden was harming the Tibetan cause. The Dalai Lama banned the practice stating publicly that if people continued the practice, they would create the cause for Tibetans never to get their independence and for the Dalai Lama’s own life to be shortened.

Nechung in trance through an oracle

It because a widespread view that Dorje Shugden had become a convenient scapegoat. The governing body of the exiled Tibetan community in Indian, known as the Central Tibetan Administrator (CTA) had long failed to gain independence back for their people. So as their failure became increasingly pronounced, they needed a quick diversion. Dorje Shugden was made to take the blame for the failing Tibetan situation.

The Dalai Lama, his supporters and the CTA cited their state protector, Nechung, in saying that Dorje Shugden was not enlightened and that we should not rely on him. Apparently, it was Nechung, while in trance through an oracle, that proclaimed it unsafe and not beneficial to propitiate the Dorje Shugden. The Dalai Lama appeared to listen to this advice; as did his government. The advice to renounce the practice was issued as a blanket ban – give up the practice or else…

The ban brought up huge debates among learned Buddhist practitioners, scholars and teachers. It did not make sense on any level that a Protector who has been long recognised as an enlightened being was suddenly being denounced as a harmful spirit. It made even less sense that the Dalai Lama – recognised as an emanation of the Buddha of Compassion, Chenrezig – could make such a drastic “mistake” in identifying the true nature of a Protector which he himself relied on for a significant part of his life.

Now, this news reportage adds another perspective into the mix. While the Dalai Lama rejects the counsel and practice of Dorje Shugden, he is now consulting oracles of other deities, who may not necessarily even be enlightened. The Sambhavi deity may be very highly respected and worshipped among Hindu devotees, but she is hardly known with the Tibetan Buddhist lineages – it begs the question why the Dalai Lama would reject an established Protector deity from within his own lineage, who was practiced by his own teachers and monasteries, but would consult a deity of an entirely different religion. We might also ask why the Dalai Lama, supposedly an enlightened being himself, would even need to rely on deity oracles for predictions and prophecies, no least from oracles whose level of attainments are far below his own.

The 6-year-old Hindu girl oracle, who takes trance of the Sambhavi deity.

The details of the Buddhist Protector consulted by the Dalai Lama are not even clear in this video. Even the terminology belies the unfortunate inexperience of the journalist who is not able to articulate specific details as to who this Protector is.

So we might assume this is Nechung, the most prominent state oracle often consulted by the Dalai Lama and his government. Even so, it is a commonly accepted that Nechung is not enlightened. He is known to have been a spirit who was tamed by Guru Rinpoche and bound to serve the Dharma. Because of his limited capacity as an unenlightened protector, it has also been well documented throughout history that many of the prophecies of Nechung were inaccurate. This caused many of the high lamas to be displeased with him.

A clear example of this was when Nechung wrongly advised the Dalai Lama to remain in Tibet during the early troubles of the Cultural Revolution. To be doubly sure, the Dalai Lama also consulted Dorje Shugden who actually advised him to leave immediately and provided him the exact routes to leave in safety. The very next day after his escape, the Chinese shelled the Potala Palace where the Dalai Lama had been staying at the time. Had the Dalai Lama listened only to Nechung and not consulted the Dorje Shugden oracle in time, he would have been killed in the Potala. In reality, therefore, because he has so often given such inaccurate advice, prophecies made by Nechung simply cannot be trusted. Anything he says about Tibetan independence should also be taken with a pinch of salt.

Nechung, also known as Pehar

So why have all Nechung’s sweeping statements about this supposed promise of freedom in 2012 been taken so much to heart? Why is it that a bound spirit is now advising the Dalai Lama about the nature of an enlightened protector, claiming that he is unenlightened and harmful? Should the Dalai Lama be listening to the unenlightened Protector, or one he had propitiated for more than half his life, but suddenly “given up”?

The Dalai Lama has followed the advice of Nechung thus far – but where has this gotten him and his people? Nechung’s advice in 1959 might have almost killed the Dalai Lama had he really remained in Tibet. Fast-forward 60 years to today: 2012 is drawing to a close and the Dalai Lama is still not making his way back to his homeland. Why not? Have the words of his own Protector failed him? And if so, why does he continue consulting him? Why indeed does he continue to promote and rely on a being who has so often proven himself unreliable and denounce a true enlightened Protector whose advice has never failed any one?



For further reading on Nechung (also frequently known as Pehar):


Spirits in Dharamsala

(Extracted from: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/spirits-in-dharamsala/)

Many eons ago, the dharma protector, Pehar, was a royal prince of the Ashuras called Damaraja. At the time of his birth, another boy was also born — to one of the king’s ministers. The two became fast friends and were ordained as monks together by the abbot called Dawe (moonlight.)

Damaraja’s religious name was Dawe Shinu and his friend’s was Tunten Nagpo.

Dawe Shinu became a scholar, who enjoyed teaching Dharma. His friend enjoyed meditating.

One day Dawe Shinu went to visit a Hindu Temple where he met a beautiful girl named Zitan Metog Ke. Overwhelmed by physical attraction, they fell into each other’s arms and ended up making love in the temple for 7 days and nights.

Dawe Shinu had broken his vows of celibacy.

His friend came and tried to stop them, but he could do nothing. Dawe Shinu got so angry at the intervention that he turned into a lion and threatened to kill his friend. If it had not been for Vajrapani, who protected Tunten Nagpo with his vajra, he would have done so.

Years late, when Dawe Shinu died, he was reborn in hell. There, he was known as Butcher’s Horse, and his life was full of suffering.

In his next existence, he was reborn as a human being who was very poor and homeless. One day, as he was wandering he ran into his former friend but they had no liking for each other.

Then Dawe Shinu was born to King Muche Tsampo and his wife, Queen Lhamo Tongon. that time, he was named Vajra Kuhe Samati. His former friend, Tunten Nagpo, was a hermit who meditated in cave and for some reason, Vajra Kuhe Samati was moved to turn himself into a rat just to try and disturb him. Once again Vajprapani intervened to protect Tunten Nagpo.

Mongolian depiction of Pehar

The fourth existence of Dawe Shinu was as the third son of Dudje Tsempo, king of the local demons. His name this time was Mudu Tankhar. (His father also had four other children.)

Pehar is a reincarnation of that demon, Mudu Tankhar. He is described as having three faces, six arms and riding a lion. He is known as a Tinley Gyalpo, or Action King.

When Padmasambhava and Tibetan ruler, Trison Deutsen, built Samye Monastery, Guru Rinpoche invited Pehar from his realm called Petahor to be the protector. He gave him a wife, Mentsun Karmo, as well as another consort. They were installed in the quarters called Peharchok that was established especially for them in the northern side of Samye. This Pehar temple is known as the Turquoise Palace.

Pehar, as a dharmapala, embodies the activities of the Five Buddhas. He also has five aspects: Body, Mind, Speech, Knowledge and Activity. The Mind aspect of King Pehar (Tuk ki Gyalpo) is brown with one face and two arms. His right hand holds a red spear, his left, a double-edged sword and a lasso. He wears a bear skin shawl and a black turban and is seated on an elephant amidst fire.

The Body aspect of Pehar (Kui Gyalpo) is dark blue, with one face and two arms. His right hand holds a vajra and his left, a single cymbal. He wears a round golden cymbal-shaped hat (tipshu) and rides a black bear.

The Knowledge aspect (Yonten kyi Gyalpo) is black, with one face and two arms. His right hand holds an axe, his left a demon’s lasso. He wears a tiger skin shawl and a black snakeskin and rides a dragon.

The Speech aspect (Sung gi Gyalpo) is dark brown, with one face and two arms. His right hand holds a staff, his left a sandalwood club. He wears a black robe and rides an iron wolf.

The Activity aspect (Thinley gyi Gyalpo) is navy blue with three faces and six arms. His first right hand holds a hook, the second an arrow, and the third, a sword. His first left hand holds a razor-sharp knife, the second a bow, the third a staff. He wears his tipshu, a white shawl and leopard-skin skirt, and rides a snow lion.

Edited from Lama Kunga Rinpoche’s teaching (02/1999) as recorded by Jeff Watt.


Extracted from In Exile from the Land of Snows:


As a state institution, Nechung Monastery stood at the apex of a nationwide system comprised of thousands of mediums and their respective spirits. The network through which the human and spirit worlds were connected, was re-enfranchised annually, in the so-called Lhatrel or God Tax.

Once a year Tibet’s 120 district governors collected offerings from the mediums in their region on behalf of their spirits. Forwarded to Nechung Monastery, they were given, on the third day of the New Year, in a colossal tsog or offering ritual, to Pehar Gyalpo.

After the rite, Nechung’s monks moved to the center of Lhasa for the oracle’s appearance in Tibet’s most spectacular celebration, the three-week-long Monlam Chenmo or Great Prayer Festival. At this time, over 20,000 monks, joined by thousands of pilgrims from all across the country, crowded into the capital.

The Nechung medium was required to undergo trance on at least ten separate occasions. In the most dramatic event, following days of parades, athletic meetings and religious convocations, he marched in a regal procession south of the city to a field below the Potala, where, wielding his bow, sword and trident before a bonfire, he ritually dispersed the negative spirits of the old year.

The need to thoroughly test the authenticity of the Nechung kuden had, for centuries, been a critical concern of the Tibetan government. As the most delicate policies of state, both domestic and foreign, were involved with the oracle, the possibility of a leak, either from a malignant spirit taking possession (and subsequently relating information via another medium) or from the medium himself retaining some trace memory of the trance, was ever-present. So, too, was the danger of a garbled or mistaken transmission.

To protect against the latter, the level of the medium’s trance was closely observed, a complete possession, inducing unconsciousness, being the ideal state. Such possession could occur only if the 72,000 psychic channels upon which, according to tantric theory, consciousness is mounted in the human body were cleared of all obstructions.

In such a case trance would be undergone swiftly, continuing without fluctuations or other irregularities. Though Lobsang Jigme’s trances revealed him to be very pure “vessel,” the next task, that of checking whether or not if it was in fact Dorje Drakden who possessed him, required, following preliminary observations, three levels of tests.

Initially, four signs of Dorje Drakden’s immense power were sought: swelling of the medium’s body up to two inches, effortless support of the heavy costume, ringing of the golden bells on the helmet’s top and shuddering of the mirror on the chest from the increased heartbeat.

The character of the possessing spirit was then observed. Dorje Drakden’s cham was particular to him, as was the fact that his fierce, prideful attitude gave way to humility only if the Dalai Lama, his picture or an article of his clothing was present. Otherwise the spirit minister demanded complete subjugation from all those in attendance. With these factors present, three categories of tests, known as outer, inner and secret, were undertaken.

In the other test, the medium was presented during trance with sealed boxes and requested to name their contents. This exam was considered easy, as the majority of spirits were believed to possess a minor form of clairvoyance.

It was followed by the inner test, in which the possessing spirit was requested to quote verbatim prophecies given by the Protector on specific dates in the past. With hundreds of prophecies on file, all imparted in Dorje Drakden’s poetic, often cryptic style, this test was virtually impossible to pass if the Protector himself was not present.

The two tests comprising the secret category, however, were believed definitive. Prior to the trance the kuden’s breath was checked to make sure that it had no odour. During trance it was examined again. If Dorje Drakden was in possession, the breath would invariably have a strong scent, similar to that of alcohol but described as actually being that of nectar.

At the moment Padmasambhava had converted the Five Kings, in the form of the eight-year-old novice, to the Dharma, he had anointed the child’s tongue with a few drops of nectar. Its odour was maintained by the spirit as a sign that his vows were being upheld. While exacting allegiance, Padmasambhava had placed the blazing tip of his dorje on the head of the kneeling child.

As the trance ends and the thickly padded helmet is quickly removed before the kuden chokes, Dorje Drakden’s possession is revealed in the well-defined imprint of a dorje, clearly visible for a matter of minutes, on the crown of the medium’s head.

The position of Nechung Kuden, however, was neither easy nor even necessarily desirable. It held the potential of a high as well as an ignominious fate. Many kudens had suffered the latter; only a few had achieved the former.

The very first kuden, appointed at the monastery’s founding in the seventeenth century, had been executed when, through possession by a lesser spirits, secret government information had been revealed to the public. Though no such drastic measure had occurred since, two of the three kudens preceding Lobsang Jigme had been disgraced, fired from their posts, after their meditation practice had deteriorated to the point of interfering with the coherence of their trances.

Shakya Yarpel, though, the renowned kuden prior to them, had been so beloved by the Thirteenth Dalai Lama for the charity of his possessions that he had been accorded honours above even those granted the Prime Minister and Cabinet, actually being conveyed when he traveled in a pep jam, the gold palanquin normally reserved solely for the Dalai Lamas and Regents.

Aware of the difficulty of the post, Lobsang Jigme’s predecessor, had run away on being singled out during a trance of the Gadong Oracle as the new Nechung kuden. Nonetheless, unable to prevent his destiny, he had been possessed by Dorje Drakden and, until his death (attributed by some to the immense strain placed on his heart by possession), accepted the role.

Excerpt from
In Exile from the Land of Snows
By John F. Avedon


You might also be interested in this video:

Dalai Lama and Oracle



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3 total comments on this postSubmit yours
  1. haha! Poor Tibetans, all depend on same oracle god but he is not a Buddha. Nechung is good, he helps but he is not Buddha. You make a good question here. why the tibetans put their focus to a spirit but they turn away the Buddha Dorje Shugden.

    Your articles are very good.

    Please put more

  2. រំឮកឡើងវិញ
    -តើនាក់ដឹងទេថា: សង្គមរាស្ត្រនិយមរបស់យើងរលាយរលត់ដោយសារ
    នរណា?ហើយបើតាមលទ្ធផលនៃការស្រាវជ្រាវរបស់សង្ឃឳ/យើងគឺថា: សង្គមរាស្រ្តនិយមរលាយរលត់ទៅវិញដោយសារតែ:
    ទី១-សហគមន៍អន្តរជាតិ (គឺUN) បំពានច្បាប់ពិភពលោក។
    ទី២-សហគមន៍អន្តរសាសន៍(គឺO.I.C) បំពានច្បាប់ធម្មជាតិនុញ្ញាតិនេះឯង ។
    -ដឹងខុសហើយនាំគ្នាជួយកែ-ខ្មែររុងរឿង ចំណា -ខ្មែរអើយ!
    ហាមដើរតាមដានចាស់ ហោង ឯវំ៕

  3. I don’t like this saying because 6 year old can’t be said as hindu or buddhist or this and that. God is equal for everyone, so god can’t be seperated by saying hindu or buddhist or muslim or cristian.. Even Buddha was born as hindu, Jesus or Mahomabbad ali was also born as something other religion. In view of god, all living beings are equal but in view of people , god are different. think before 2600 year, there was only hindu..(which now people called)

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Contemplate This

.…Instead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the ‘wrong’ practice. Actually Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong. But hypothetically, if they are, wouldn’t it be more Buddhistic to be accepting? So those who have views against Dorje Shugden should contemplate this. Those practicing Dorje Shugden should forbear with extreme patience, fortitude and keep your commitments. The time will come as predicted that Dorje Shugden’s practice and it’s terrific quick benefits will be embraced by the world and it will be a practice of many beings.

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