The 17th Karmapa against the ban of Dorje Shugden

In an article in isikkim.com, the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje implies that he is against the ban of Dorje Shugden, so is his mentor Sharmapa Rinpoche, see the highlighted parts in red below:

Dalai Lama overstepped his authority in Rumtek controversy: Karmapa Thaye Dorje

Source: http://isikkim.com/2012-02-dalai-lama-overstepped-his-authority-in-rumtek-controversy-karmapa-thaye-dorje-05-03/ (Admin: the latest check found that this article has been removed from the original website)

Soumik Dutta
Kalimpong/Gangtok:
February 5, 2012

On the side lines of Sonam Losar, Tamang Buddhist New Year celebrations in Kalimpong, Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje in an exclusive interview to Soumik Datta said that His Holiness the Dalai Lama had advertently or inadvertently over stepped his authority in endorsing Rinpoche Ugyen Trinley.

The Karmapa said that HH the Dalai Lama did so perhaps keeping in mind the interests of the Tiebtan government in exile. The Karmapa also said that he and his mentor the 14th Shamarpa believe that a consensus and a peaceful solution is possible with HH the Dalai Lama also being involved in it.

Talking on the existing controversy regarding the genuineness of Karmapa for Rumtek, HH echoed his mentor the 14th Kunzig Shamarpa in stating that it was politics that had created the entire controversy, spoiling relationships, breaching trust and creating factionalism within the Karma Kagyu lineage in general.

The 14th Shamarpa, reincarnation, Mipham Chokyi Lodro had earlier in an interview to this reporter had said, “Politics should not interfere in religoius matters. Shamarpa said, “Frankly, the then Sikkim Chief Minister N B Bhandari made a mistake by interfering in religious matters of the Rumtek Monastery. That was the turning point in the history of the selection and reinstatement of the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa. The controversies have since kept on.”

Shamarpa had further said, “Bhandari had his vested interest in the forcible takeover of the Monastery in August 1993 from me and the other monks of the Karmapa Charitable Trust, who were ousted by sheer force. He was paid a staggering 2.5 million dollars in bribe money through Chen Lu An, a devotee of Tai Situ Rinpoche”.

When asked about the role played by HH the Dalai Lama in the entire episode of the controversy, HH Karmapa Thaye Dorje said, ”The seat of the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa does not need public endorsement or support. Traditionally it has been governed by Kagyu tradition of prediction letters left by Karmapas as to who would be their reincarnations.

Unfortunately, the late 16th Gyalwang Karmapa Rangjung Rigpei Dorje, did not leave such a letter. Rinpoche Tai Situ produced a prediction letter proclaiming Rinpoche Ugyen Trinley as the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, which my mentor the 14th Kunzig Shamarpa had objected to and asked to undergo a forensic examination for authentication.

However, this was disallowed and subsequently HH Dalai Lama too endorsed Rinpoche Ugyen Trinley Dorje. Since then and the forceful takeover of the Rumtek Monastery, the Karmapa controversy has lived on.”

Does the Dalai Lama have any further role to play in finding an amicable settlement to the more than decade old Karmapa controversy? Karmapa Thaye Dorje smiled in a way high incarnated lamas do and added that Dalai Lama would remain a respectable figure, however, he had advertently or inadvertently over stepped his authority, perhaps in keeping in mind interests of his exile government. Both me and my mentor the 14th Shamarpa believe that a consensus and a peaceful solution is possible with HH the Dalai Lama also being involved in it, added the Karmapa.

Dalai Lama had decreed a ban on the worship of Dorje Shugden amongst his Tibetan followers on 7 March, 1996. Shamarpa, a supporter of religious freedom had opposed HH the Dalai Lama on the issue and he reiterated the stance by saying “Dharma is about thinking for yourself.

It is not about automatically following a teacher in all things, no matter how respected that teacher may be. More than anyone else, Buddhist should respect other people’s rights – their human rights and their religious freedom. I understand when Tibetans feel this way; their livelihood may depend on being on good terms with the Tibetan exile administration in India. Maybe they would lose their job if they questioned the Dalai Lama’s right to choose the Karmapa.”

And which deity to worship or not, this is an unhealthy development in Buddhism, do you endorse the views of your mentor on this issue? The Karmapa smiled in the affirmative.

Earlier, while delivering His spiritual discourse on Sunday, the final event of the three-day long ceremony organized on the auspicious occasion of Sonam Losar, HH stressed on the need to maintain positive approach and mind that is always aimed at the universal well being. He enlightened the devotees saying, “Due to the nature of the individual and collective ignorance, let’s say, in some ways lack of knowing, essentially not knowing the truth, this brings actually all kinds of problems in an individual’s life.

So, when the truth of ignorance is not well known, on such terms, violence and non-violence both come into the picture. From my personal perspective, yes, it is the path of non-violence but basically it is more than that. One has to use certain terminology such as non-violence but basically it is emphasizing what in Buddhism is known as Buddha Nature.

“The youth must realize and understand the importance of true wisdom and compassion, only then can they understand the meaning of dharma. The parents would have to play the role of the real teachers in helping and guiding them”, said 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje in his message to the society.

(iSikkim.com has not been able to confirm the above story from other sources. iSikkim.com bears no responsibility about the truth of the above story.)

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2 total comments on this postSubmit yours
  1. This is the first article I am reading about this Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorje. I went to search more information on this Karmapa issue. Please read this link which is quite comprehensive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karmapa_controversy

    As much as it is very interesting to read and learn, it is also disturbing to learn how much politics there is in Tibetan Buddhism. It is ironical that the purity of Buddhism is tarnished and polluted by man-made politics. And even more distressing is that all these “issues” link to the 14th Dalai Lama. In fact from what I learn, HHDL really has no jurisdiction in the recognition of the Karmapa. It just all seems so wrong, and I hate to say it all stems from not having a clear distinction and separation of religious and political affairs. And I see that the China issue is much entangled in this Karmapa issue.

    With all respect to HHDL, I dare not not be, which is the same sentiment of many Lamas, it still does not hide the errs of the mix of religion and politics.

    “Due to the nature of the individual and collective ignorance, let’s say, in some ways lack of knowing, essentially not knowing the truth, this brings actually all kinds of problems in an individual’s life. So, when the truth of ignorance is not well known, on such terms, violence and non-violence both come into the picture. From my personal perspective, yes, it is the path of non-violence but basically it is more than that. One has to use certain terminology such as non-violence but basically it is emphasizing what in Buddhism is known as Buddha Nature…” – this applies to everything, and of course the DS controversy!

  2. Reading just the above transmissions is, so very unstable.
    I do not know what the truth is yet. Politics cripples all Societies.
    I have Wondered what the Arguments were all about. I find it all uncomfortable having 2 Karmapas, 2 young men and a great deal many people at odds.
    What is wrong with this picture? This is not Mindfulness. How can it be so wrong.
    To see signs of the lying of the Darlai Lama is Disturbing.
    I have expected unfortunately something just like taking place. We are Humans.
    We are Ignorant and Irrogant. Is this really what has happened. I don’t know.
    I do believe that if I and We truly meditate, we will all get the same right answer.
    Either way it is painful.

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.…Instead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the ‘wrong’ practice. Actually Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong. But hypothetically, if they are, wouldn’t it be more Buddhistic to be accepting? So those who have views against Dorje Shugden should contemplate this. Those practicing Dorje Shugden should forbear with extreme patience, fortitude and keep your commitments. The time will come as predicted that Dorje Shugden’s practice and it’s terrific quick benefits will be embraced by the world and it will be a practice of many beings.

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