Dalai Lama angrily replies to peaceful nun

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Dalai Lama’s reaction in this video is quite surprising in that he is angry, with pointing finger and curt. Dalai Lama does not give much chance for the nun to speak nor shows any compassion or care towards this ‘enemy’. No dialogue is allowed regarding the Dorje Shugden ban by the Dalai Lama. Publicly Dalai Lama encourages dialogue, but here it is not allowed.

In the video Dalai Lama says:

This is not a matter of religious freedom. No, no, no, no. I know Buddha’s teachings. I know Lama Tsongkapa’s teachings. This (Dorje Shugden’s practice) is not a religion. This is worship of a spirit. So that is wrong.

During this demonstration a gentle and sincere Buddhist nun asked His Holiness Dalai Lama for dialogue on the Dorje Shugden ban issue and also to request His Holiness to stop speaking against Dorje Shugden practitioners which is creating violence against them. The Dalai Lama was angry, rude and not polite at all which is not the usual media-friendly Dalai Lama we are use to. He was pointing at the nun as he spoke with his index finger. It seems as if he was talking down to the nun. He was in fact very angry when asked to stop the persecution of Dorje Shugden practitioners by the brave nun. Towards the end you will see a Tibetan man telling the nun to stop bluntly.

Tibetans must realize if you want the help of democratic countries like America, you must also accept freedom of speech, religion and the right to protest that comes along with this financial and political support. Protest incidentally within the Tibetan communities against the Dalai Lama is illegal. It is blatantly not allowed. Any policies by the Dalai Lama is seen as divine and no one may contradict or risk ostracizing.

What the Dalai Lama does not understand is he just met President Obama (February 21, 2014) and he is in the United States of America which stands for no discrimination against any religion whether it is ‘spirit’ practice or not. Dalai Lama may wrongly label Dorje Shugden’s practice as spirit worship, but many millions more do not agree and are deeply hurt if not insulted by his ban. He should not desecrate Dorje Shugden’s practice and publicly denounce it especially when he is traveling in democratic countries like the US where religious freedom is part of the constitution.

Dalai Lama has met President Obama in order to rally support for his cause. He needs the support of the American people also. If that is the case, he should not discriminate against any religion whether he himself deems it spirit practice or not. Which it is not. The issue here is not whether Dorje Shugden is a spirit practice, but the right to practice any religion or forms of worship without denouncements from religious leaders like Dalai Lama. He has progressively denounced the practice of Dorje Shugden publicly creating massive schisms, violence and seperations. Also he has incorporated the Dorje Shugden practice within the Tibetan exiled constitution as illegal. If any Tibetans are to practice, then they would be not allowed to use Tibetan institutions such as hospitals, schools, or even get their traveling documents. It is outright religious discrimination. Dalai Lama’s negative view on Dorje Shugden has had a adverse effect on millions which should be stopped now.

Meeting at the White House between President Obama and Dalai Lama on February 21, 2014.

What the Dalai Lama needs to understand is President Obama and all democratic leaders protect their citizens in their rights to free religious worship without discrimination, bias or prejudice. Whether the beliefs are deemed a religion or not does not concern democratic leaders because they respect the rights to worship as enshrined in the constitution.

A puzzling question this picture invites is the Dalai Lama had stated officially he has retired from politics, so why is he still involved with politics and politicians?

To protect millions from the Dalai Lama’s religious persecution the International Shugden Community began its campaign of demonstrations in San Francisco, CA (Saturday, February 22, 2014). They are peacefully requesting Dalai Lama to stop his persecution against Dorje Shugden practitioners and stop insulting their worship of Buddha Dorje Shugden as spirit worship. The Dalai Lama should respect other people’s practices and religious beliefs and their individual freedom to practice.

Location: (Louise M) Davies Symphony Hall
201 Van Ness Ave, San Francisco, CA 94102
Time: Demonstration starts at 12:30pm and will end around 5pm


Sunday, Feb 23


Berkeley Community Theater
7.30am – 11am

Monday, Feb 24

Santa Clara

Leavey Event Center, Santa Clara University
7am – 12noon

Tuesday, Feb 25th

Los Angeles

The Forum, Inglewood
11am – 2pm

The protesters represent millions around the world who asks Dalai Lama to stop the persecution against their worship of Dorje Shugden and allow full democratic rights within for these followers of Dorje Shugden within the Tibetan constitution. They are asking Dalai Lama to not persecute against them on the basis of their faith and open for dialogue. Protestors are asking the Dalai lama to accept and allow religious freedom and not condemn any form of worship including Dorje Shugden’s practice.

Video of the protest at San Francisco

Protestors for religious freedom in San Francisco

These peaceful protestors bravely represent the millions of Dorje Shugden practitioners around the world who are disappointed and hurt by the denouncements of their faith by Dalai Lama.

This man came from Japan to USA to join in the protests and has a few important questions for Dalai Lama.

Why did the Dalai Lama accept millions in donations from Shoko Asahara? Why does the Dalai Lama not aggressively speak out about the self-immolations in Tibet as he does against Dorje Shugden practitioners?

Dalai Lama and Shoko Asahara

Dalai Lama called Shoko Asahara his good friend. Shoko Asahara donated millions to the Dalai Lama and his causes. These are some of the questions the Japanese protestor had  and the reason he came to protest. Why in the Dalai Lama’s omniscience did he befriend such a person who is incarcerated for hurting hundreds in Japan? Did Dalai Lama’s promotion of Shoko Asahara as a genuine teacher propelled him to fame in Japan allowing him to have the circumstances for the harm?

Ms. Rebecca Gautier

Ms. Rebecca Gautier who is the representative for the International Shugden Community. She spoke clearly and accurately for major news stations covering the event regarding the undemocratic suppression of religious freedom against Dorje Shugden practitioners in Tibet, India, Nepal and worldwide. Dorje Shugden practitioners are not allowed basic rights within the Tibetan exiled communities in India and Nepal simply because of their religious beliefs.

Further links and videos to help you understand the situation

National and local news

  • http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=9441887
  • http://www.prweb.com/releases/DalaiLama/ReligiousDiscrimination/prweb11592622.htm
  • http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/02/prweb11609135.htm
  • http://worldjournal.com/bookmark/24629634–
  • http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/23/shugden-buddhist-faction-protests-dalai-lama-as-he-visits-san-francisco/
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5hCnq0fHQ
  • http://www.facebook.com/dalailamatruth
  • http://www.falsedalailama.com
  • http://www.shargadenpa.org
  • http://www.serpommonastery.org
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTAio7kr05I
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BheB_UwpGls


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  1. Dear friends,

    Here is another video showing Dalai Lama frustrated, angry and very determined to force his point across cutting the calm and collected interviewer’s words. Not allowing for any other opinions. Violence in Gaden Monastery and Mundgod Tibetan camps were perpetrated by anti-Shugden people (backed up by CTA)when they stormed the Monastery and threw rocks at Shugden monks houses.They sent death threats to Trijang Rinpoche and many masters such as Gen Tsultrim (escaped to Switzerland), where Trijang Rinpoche had to escape to Switzerland then USA. But the Dalai Lama denied any of this. and even more violence this year (2014) when Trijang Rinpoche’s assistant was attacked in Mundgod.

    Dalai Lama angry, very intent on cutting the interviewer off.


    How can a religious practitioner, monk, teacher and student say his teacher is wrong?

    If Dalai Lama can say his teacher is wrong, then Dalai Lama himself can be wrong too. Everyone can be wrong. And the ban on Dorje Shugden’s practice is wrong. It is the opinion of the Dalai Lama only that Shugden is wrong, so he can be wrong also. It is only an opinion.

    All people of all religions including Shamanists, voodoo practitioners, witches, Satanists, Christians, Hindus, atheists can join Dalai Lama’s talks. But Shugden practitioners cannot. Why? Why are only they targeted? Why so much hatred towards Shugden practitioners?

    Jangchup Choeden

  2. Dear Jangchup Choeden,

    You are correct. They also chase out other masters because Dalai Lama said to kick out Shugden monks from Sera, Ganden and Drepung Monasteries. This video show Dalai Lama ask to kick out monks:


    In the video he happy and rejoice the monks kicked out. Why he happy? Where is he compassion. We are monks. I was one monk was kicked out. My crime is I worship my protector Shugden give to me by my guru. Why I am wrong? I debated, study, practice, part of monastery for over 20 years and I am kick out and now live Delhi. Because Dalai Lama say so, they kick out Dagom Rinpoche from Drepung, Geshe Tsultrim from Gaden Jangtse, Trijang Rinpoche from Gaden, Pabongka Rinpoche kicked out from Sera and now in Nepal. They throw rocks at Pabongka Rinpoche house. Yongyal Rinpoche kicked out also. The Tibetans protest and threaten Yongyal Rinpoche to get out from Sera Monastery. Many monks, teachers, Rinpoches, Geshes kicked out from monastery only because practice Shugden. So bad. so much suffering. Many monks crying.

    Dalai lama very angry only because we like Shugden and we cannot return to monastery.

    stop the ban now please Dalai Lama. Respect religion.
    Jampa Tsering

  3. Dalai Lama said Dorje Shugden is bad. But his gurus says Dorje Shugden is good. Who is wrong or right? If Dalai Lama guru can be wrong, then all our gurus can be wrong. Then why have gurus? No more gurus and guru devotion. All gurus can be wrong.

  4. Dalai Lama is wrong. Dalai Lama should remove the ban and stop hurting people. He should get freedom for Tibet. Now already 50 years and Dalai Lama is old and promise to get freedom for Tibet, but never get. Dalai Lama is wrong to ban Shugden. No leader now in this world ban any religion or they lose office and position.

  5. Why Dalai Lama ask Monasteries and people to kick out monks if they practice Shugden? Why so fierce? Where do monks go? Very poor. Why only kick out because practice Shugden. Where is compassion? Kick out monks:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eTFXgVKQi4 (see 3:40)

    Even famous Burmese monks don’t like Dalai Lama and speak against him and his words that insult his sangha:


    Dalai Lama stop the ban. Have compassion for all beings even if they don’t agree with you. Have love like the sun for everyone.

  6. Dalai Lama should just remove the ban. He has spoken against Dorje Shugden and everyone heard. He does not need to repeat nor enact laws also against Shugden people. He does not need to expel monks from Monasteries because of this. It’s all in the Dalai Lama’s hands. He should be humble and kind and just remove the ban and leave it to everyone’s free will to practice or not.

  7. Spirits are playing havoc with human naivety… listen to those that know… if you play with disembodied spirits and other nasties you will get burnt… and if you do you will carry your toxic connections with you affecting those who practice the way of the Sun

  8. I am Losang at Shar gaden monastery in South India, Mundgod. I use to belong to Ganden Shartse Monastery. But Dalai Lama say we cannot stay in Monastary if we pray Shugden. Sp we have to leave and find our own plce. My teacher was crying. My teacher said why Dalai lama say like that. My teacher is already 85 years old and very sad. My teacher practice Shugden hhis whole life and will not give up he said. Why Dalai Laama hurt our own people and our own Buddhism religion. Why we canot practice Shugden is not right. This website is our only truth and speak truth. everyone must support this place and understand happening to us. Thaks yuou.

  9. Azzek,

    To different parts of the world, Buddhism itself is considered a wrong demon worshipping religion. Should we listen to the people in those parts of the world who ‘know’. It is a matter of opinion. To some Catholics will go to hell. To others Hindus are idol worshippers. So what?

    The fruit do not fall far from the tree. Observe the people practicing certain faiths to ‘judge’ their faiths. Dalai Lama’s group has created so much violence against Shugden people. It’s sad and yet it hurts many and something has to be done. This issue will not go away. See the violence:


  10. He has said he is human, and yes he’s acknowledged he feels the same emotions as all of us do…

    Hear his messages, but realize not to build him to be ‘superhuman’..

    I forgive no matter what realm this context is written to suggest, and or what was the motivation to what was thought to be the reality both or either were of the understanding of.

    I’ve lost no respect.


  11. This article & the video, and the writing in this article are all… of a misunderstanding..

    Buddhism is not a religion— do you get what he was saying?

    I am not getting into the bs of this conversation— that’s what he was saying– I would take defense– and walk away too— she’s combative & meeting him in accusation & aggression..

    That’s what most of you don’t see, understand, nor want to open your minds to..

    End of story. I’ll do my part by not advertising this drama any further.

    It’s Pro-Activeness, and being humble doesn’t mean you have to entertain someone elses anger.

  12. It seems to me there is a power struggle motivating the Dalai Lama. A true man of God does NOT see the need to oust anyone from the way they worship!!! Interestingly enough I have never felt the remotest sense to follow this man. He travels around the world to promote his ways of beliefs. Again a true man of God does NOT need to do that either because people will come to the one who is appointed by God and has NO need to make a promotional crusade out of it!!! The Dalai Lama has become, it seems, a highly political motivated man and got side tracked of who he is and what his true mission is to his own soul and spirit in service to Buddha’s teachings.

  13. Fuck you and your bullshit story !

  14. What a tempest in a tea pot this is. Tibetan Buddhism is hardly Buddhism at all. It’s a mixture of old tribal culture with a Tantric overlay calling itself Buddhism. The Buddha must be rolling in his ashes. All these rites and rituals and statues and Monasteries and monks prostrating themselves every six feet as they make their way somewhere. And the prayer wheel phenomenon. What is that about? Prayers to who? The Way? Oh that’s right; I don’t here much mention of the way in Tibetan Pseudism. There are less than 7 million Tibetans world wide and you can hardly call them Buddhists despite the excellent publicity they excite around his Holiness the Dalai Lama. They are not representative of Buddhism in the least way. It is unfortunate that there is very little actual Buddhism in the world these days. The way has been forgotten. Everybody is busy bowing and kneeling and practicing rites and other useless time consuming attempts to get some Buddha to have mercy on them and let them into some promised land That is not Buddhism. Buddha didn’t write a book because he knew not to. Later followers thought to correct his error and compile sutras. Nonsense. Study only the reality around you. That is the only source of truth. Anything you can write is twice removed from reality.

  15. Buddha was born in nepal and ask to nepalies people about budhha and buddhism, dalai lama doesnt even know Buddha was hindu before anyway no matter what buddha was but we hve to respect of his rules thats it .

  16. She was just plain rude. You don’t start a conversation by accusing someone of lying and expect a positive response.

  17. As a common Chinese people, I can’t support Dalai. He only brings unrest to our society. And many people lost freedom because his bewitch….: (

  18. The Dalai Lama would be advised (if he wants the support of sincere First Amendment adherents) to also follow up on his separating himself from the secular affairs of State. This should mean disavowing any temporal powers, not just for himself (if he really means it, that is – which seems highly doubtful) but also for any and all successors to his position.

    Otherwise he is just one more untouchable Religionist who inevitably has sown ignorance and blind faith in followers, and struck fear and destruction in the hearts and lives of countless millions for thousands of years.

  19. this article is very bashing and ignorant. first of all, the writer knows nothing about buddhist logic nor the culture of tibet. (meaning the style of speaking) (often when the uninitiated see chinese speakers talk, they look violent, but it is not at all, rather, a cultural difference/cadence). the dalai lama was simply responding. secondly, the bashing of the dalai lama for being an omniscient man who befriends dubious figures, does not understand reincarnation nor the fact that he is a simple monk, a human. not a god. This is a twisting of information for the end result of WHAT? if the dalai lama says it is not buddhism, then it is not. but it does not HAVE to be buddhism, just don’t tell the most knowledgable person on earth what is and what is not buddhism. Its perfectly ok to have it, just call it something else. and lastly, and frankly, i am shocked that this organization would stoop so low as to target a buddhist leader in such a fashion using any tact that could bias truth against this compassionate leader. shame on you. i would want nothing to do with an organization that reduces itself to such tactics.

  20. To be honest, why do they need his approval? And who cares if he condemns them?
    Does it change their belief? As someone from Christianity or Islam and they will say you worship the devil? Do you also want approval from the Pope of and Iman? No.. so.. go worship do you thing and don’t ask people to like you or approve of you. Your faith and your practice has nothing to do with anyone else or anyone else’s opinion. If it does then you are in the wrong religion anyway.

  21. I mean to say . Ask someone from Christianity or Islam and they will say you worship the devil.

    and the contemplation below is lovely. but its still up to the person to decide what they think and how they react. Just because you show kindness doesn’t mean other will show it. It also doesn’t mean you have to engage or try to change other’s minds. Again .. do your thing.. and the rest will take care of itself.

  22. The only reason anyone is ‘asking’ the Dalai Lama’s approval is because people are being persecuted in his name in India. I practise Dorje Shugden in the United States. I do not ask, nor need the Dalai Lama’s approval. But this action by the nun was done in a spirit of compassion for others.

  23. Sadly, the occidental society believes that the so called “Tibetan buddhism” is the orthodox Buddhism.
    It’s nothing like the orthodox Buddhism but the appearance they want us to believe.
    The occidental society believes them because they are against the communism which was adapted in China.
    China is and was a Buddhism country, she has embraced in this religion for more than 2000 years.
    In Tibet, the religion had been embraced earlier than it had in China, but later the primitive religion, the Bonism prevailed over it again.
    Meanwhile, in India the Buddhism was prevailed over by the Hinduism, the Buddhism was fading, more and more evil forces penetrated into the Buddhists and its doctrine was tampered by Shantideva and Candrakīrti, and transferred to Tibet by Padmasambhava.
    The “Tibet “Buddhism” is actually Hinduism wrapped with the appearance of the Buddhism that adapt the doctrine of Hinduism and Bonism.

    But the occidental society would rather believe Dalai Lam cause of the conflicts between Ideologies.
    Fortunetly, researchers as Colins Goldner and Maxime Vivas still can describe the truth neutrally.

  24. I wonder how much Chinese money was invested in those politics.

  25. Thank you for everyone participating with your POV and posting.

    In response to a few of the posts I would like to add some points:

    1) Just because the ban doesn’t affect you? and you can practice freely is SELECTIVE COMPASSION, saying something that needs to be said? should not be said because one is comfortable, happy, safe in their own practice is not logical from a humanitarian or buddhist pov. This is NOT DHARMA PRACTICE (if you have to ask why? or truly don’t know ask your teacher or study your Lam Rim).

    2) Ego in the form of intellectual knowledge is also not dharma practice? without out compassion for practitioners who make all teachings part of their daily lives.

    3) Saying that because Buddhas teachings are not really his teachings when they travel to other regions?

    Please…if thats the case we can play merry go round one-up manship about who is right and who is wrong? What is the point.

    Taking this form of Logic I could argue that through your individual interpretation of the Buddhas teachings you are already changing the meaning for yourself / from your own POV / rightly or wrongly based on your perceptions / view / expectations etc….Are you deluding yourself or illuminating Buddhas words with the essence of his teachings?

    4) Buddhas teachings change to meet the needs of the spiritual seekers or teachers in those environments? Do we then say Buddhism in Japan, SE Asia, Russia, Taiwan, the West is all wrong?
    Certainly not because people benefit in the end.

    5) If you are going to comment please at least focus on the topic on hand rather than confuse the issues pertaining to the thread for everyones benefit.

    _/I\_ JH



  27. Despite the political / religious issue I have this to say: he doesn’t look too angry to me. Insistent, yes. Perhaps a little peeved… but compared to what most people deal with every day in the world? Not too angry.

    It’s a spiritual trap to assume that one should never raise one’s voice – passive aggression and resentments are the real killers.

  28. What is sadly missing in this report is the fact that the “nun” is calling His Holiness a liar. Perhaps he might reject that label. Perhaps this label is in very bad taste.

  29. sff

  30. Dalai Lama should do something already:
    The protests will not stop and this issue will not die off till it’s handled correctly. His HOliness the Dalai Lama or the Tibetan leadership MUST have dialogue with Shugden groups in a peaceful and logical manner to resolve this issue in a democratic manner. These protests which are all over the media will embarrass the the Tibetan leadership and unfortunately tarnish the Dalai Lama’s international reputation. Something must be done immediately. I do not worship Dorje Shugden but I live in USA and freedom of religion is honored. We Tibetans have religious freedom here in the USA. All Tibetans and people of the world deserve it also. It is outdated for CTA leadership to ban any religions, spiritual worship or practices in this day and age with Tibetans and Tibetan communities.

    Tibetans and Tibetan leadership still rely on Western support of their causes. So it would be better to portray to Westerners and their governments that we Tibetans (CTA) are not having witch hunts. You may have theological differences, but that should not equate to having actual laws banning Shugden Tibetans from Tibetan hospitals, monasteries, schools and equal opportunity. The CTA should stop printing flyers/information/distributions, remove all anti-Shugden write ups from their official website. All Shugden Tibetans should be welcomed into mainstream Tibetan life and join the protest for a Free or autonomous (Depending on Dalai Lama) Tibet against the Chinese just like our Muslim and Bonpo Tibetans. CTA should stop dividing Tibetans. His Holiness (with respect) should stop calling Shugden people spirit worshippers. He is insulting someone’s faith and inevitably inciting ignorant Tibetans to act (sometimes violently: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/cta-creates-violence-again/ )against Shugden people. That should stop. It does not look good for H.H. Dalai Lama to be seen in this light where he encourages religious discrimination. He should not call anyone a spirit worshipper. This really looks bad: Dalai Lama angrily replies to peaceful nun
    I don’t agree with the nun’s approach but I don’t agree with Dalai Lama’s answer. His Holiness invited this upon himself I respectfully say.
    I love my Tibet, I love the Dalai Lama and proud to be a Tibetan, but there are issues within our society and religion that need to be addressed immediately such as the Shugden issue. The Dalai Lama and Tibetan lamas all get their support/finances from foreigners. Foreigners and their democratic views must be respected.

    Jampa Tsering

    US press clearly talking about protests against Dalai Lama. This is not good:

  31. Foolish people. Theocracy is a throw-back. The Dalai Lama is correct and those hung up on it are simply in a state of confusion.

    Back to your practice. Free yourselves from this delusion.

  32. Your group is just a communist party creation, means no spirituality.

  33. Claude Adrien, after reading everything if that is your conclusion, it shows the level of your mind.

    10th Panchen Lama, Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche and all the 80 percent of the combined 15,000 monks of Gaden, Sera and Drepung must all be communist because they practiced Dorje Shugden?

    Are you sure? If you are sure, then it’s beyond illogical. Thanks for your opinion anyways.

  34. Ted,

    We are practicing but our elderly may not go to a Tibetan hospitals. Our children may not join a Tibetan schools. My brother has been expelled from a Monastery he’s been at for 20 years. I cannot get travelling papers from the Tibetan leadership. Why? Because we practice Dorje Shugden. We are seen as bandits and outlaws because of our religious beliefs. But we still practice. We will keep practicing. Because our practice will prevail. The Tibetan leadership will realize their grave mistake. What was it the British White Majority in South Africans say about Mandela when they had him imprisoned for over 18 years? Something about he is living in a dream that will never come true? Well it came true.
    Ours will too. It’s a struggle.
    By the way how was your day?

  35. However the nun is speaking she is a spiritual ‘nobody’ while the Dalai Lama is considered Chenresig’s incarnation. How can Chenresig show so much impatience and anger? What kind of Buddha incarnation is this?

    The Dalai Lama in interviews always say he has no anger towards the Chinese who has killed over a millions Tibetans and he forgives them. Well that sounds nice. Why does he not forgive the Nun in this scenario and be kind no matter how she acts. You must do as you preach. He is so angry and curt and caught on film.

  36. The Jews were persecuted by many and never gave up. As a Jew I am proud and I also practice Zen Buddhism. The Shugden people should not give up. It is clear you are oppressed. You should have the same human rights as all other Tibetan Buddhists. The Jews had bigger oppressors. The Dalai Lama is just a old man and any time his days are numbered. Forgive him. You will have your freedom.

  37. After reading all the articles, I am not attending any more talks by Dalai Lama. What is happening is not right. I will also not donate to the Tibetan cause anymore. The CTA are really too much. I’ve donated thousands to them in Dharamsala. I’ve gone for Free Tibet marches, campaigns and fundraisers for years.

  38. Dalai Lama and CTA should stop the Dorje Shugden ban regardless of what they think Shugden is. People should worship what they want and still have their civil rights and liberties. Full stop.

  39. I now realise we were supporting the CTA in the Tibetan cause in abusing their human rights and causing agony and sufferings to the community already in exile. For many years my friends and I worked hard and funded the cause. But today we are aware of the situation in the exile community. We will no longer wish to be part of this wrongful prosecution and shall immediately cease the funding to any Tibetan cause.

  40. So people are giving up the Tibetan cause just because of a few articles and videos? It would make more sense to do further research and look at both sides before making a final conclusion about what’s really going on here.

  41. Well, most people’s talking here is mostly based on politic.
    I’m a religion researcher, my interest is mostly based on the difference between the doctrines of those related religions.
    In this case, some knots in politic must be untied first, and then goes to religoin part.
    To the occidental people, when it comes to Buddhism, the Tibetan Buddhism comes to their minds first.
    Since 1959, everybody thinks that the Buddhism is what Dalai Lama taught us.
    People can rarely come to another possibilities that Dalai Lama didn’t taught the occidental society unless one owns this special area and major the Buddhist study.
    Occidental people can’t doubt Dalai Lama’s doctrine cause he has been “God” reputed in the Democratic world, one doubts him would be degraded as an Anti-Human Rights and an invader supporter.
    There’s a wrong premise need to be emphasized, that Doubt in Dalai Lama’s validity equals Disavowing the situation of the Human Rights in China.
    What’s more, Dalai taught the world that the the situation of the Anti-Human Rights only happens in Tibet racially.
    Must be emphasized that the Anti-Human Rights happens not only to those national minorities, but to everyone(without those who make the laws) in China.
    Dalai’s supporters consider this issue as a racial problem habitually.

    Back to the religion part, the Tibetan Buddhists taught the occidental society that Buddhism practices Tantra since it has been founded 2600 years ago.
    What’s Tantra?
    You can Wiki it first – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra
    But the Wikipedia doesn’t tell every part, there’s something about sex.
    However, academically, we should discuss here, the Tantraism believed that Yoga can lead to mental improvements, some of them are sexual which those practisers denied.
    They said that the sexual part is not sexual cause there’s no ejaculation while orgasm comes to the practisers.(I can’t find other words more academical.)
    Dalai said the same thing, too in the book named “Dalai Lama in Harvard University”, which was translated into graphs with many hard sanskrit loan words, only those who has learned tibetan, sanskrit, hindi, Buddhism, Hinduism and Tantraism thoroughly can actually understand what he was talking about.

    But Tibetan Buddhists doesn’t teach the sexual parts at first cause those countries such as Japan, Taiwan and China know have practised Buddhism longer than westerners have, also the asian societies are more prudent.
    If they teach everything at once, everybody would find out the problem, though some people would still buy that.

    To distinguish from the orthodox Buddhism, I’ll just call it Lamaism.

    How did the Lamaism deal with the other religion before 1959?
    Case 1. The case of Charles Alexis Renou and Jean Charles Fage
    In 1850, two Catholic priests, Charles Alexis Renou and Jean Charles Fage went to China to preach.
    In 1854, they built the first Catholic church in Tibetan area. Then, Charles Alexis Renou went further into Tibet in 1862, but killed in 1863.
    1865, Lamas commanded 300 lamaists to attack the church in Bonga, the other priest led his church members to escape, no one in the area dared to help them till they went to the area ruled by Tusi of Dongba tribes.
    The Tusi helped them set up a church in Tsigu.
    But the church was burned down later by those lamas, a french priest was caught and then his head was chopped down.
    Seven nuns jumped into river and drowned while they had nowhere to escape to.
    There’re other cases today known and happening still.

  42. Naive fool of a reporter… thinking american has religious freedom? LOL!!! what a blind fool… this entire world has no religious freedom! So long as islam, christianity and judiasm continues to exist in this world… there will be NO religious freedom for the rest…

  43. I was having doubts about the CTA or exile Tibetan govt in Dharamsala for last few years. Why are they not fighting for the independence of their country anymore? The Dalai Lama is silent on the issue and only talks about the Bhagvan Dorje Shugden issue. This is not the action of a Guru-ji. Dalai Lama and his people have been welcomed on our Indian soil for the last 50 years, but are you not returning to your country? Are you staying in India forever? I am disheartened by all the talk on Bhagvan Dorje Shugden on Indian soil which allows freedom to worship. No guru may criticize any God of any person.

  44. My name is Shartse Khenpo and I like money. I will do what the CTA tells me to do because I want good reputation and therefore collect a lot of sponsors. I don’t care that all my gurus practiced Dorje Shugden because I have no loyalty to them. My loyalty is to money and CTA can open the doors for me to get more.

  45. We will continue to protest peaceably until Dalai Lama releases the ban. We will not stop and the truth will prevail. Thank you http://www.dorjeshugden.com for supporting our teacher Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche and joining us to bring down the ban. I am grateful to this informative website.

  46. Who neither toils nor spins; whose existence depends on the charity of those who labor – not reviled but revered – Priest, Shaman, Monk – The difference between vagrant and visionary? A claim of enlightenment J.G.Hicks

  47. @ Дэкдэтэй

    I respect peoples right to post their POV however in the interest of discussions this is not the thread / forum to peddle your ideas about what buddhist history is based on your research?

    If you want an academic discussion? create your own website and discuss there or find the relevant online forum to find out the answers you seek.

    I do not need to point out again that your comments do not relate to the topic at hand? It comes across as intellectual BS that does not care about anyone else.

    If you need to talk about Tantra in a public forum you ought to know better? or you do not practice Tantra period. If you feel you need to discuss tantra without permission this is also not good.

    Also comments like Lamaism are also highly offensive to some practitioners and out of respect you should investigate further with a qualified teacher to explain to you why?

    The people you highlight were indeed some of the first westerners entering Tibet. However reading some of their research it becomes quite clear there are assumptions about what they observed fell quite short of the real meaning in some cases.

    So if you really want to be a religious researcher who gets the facts 100% right before you post anything in the public domain at least do more research that involves more than quoting wikipedia.

    Please post your opinions respectfully and try to keep on the thread of the conversation. Discussions about Tantra has nothing to do with this article or this comments section.


  48. Y’know, I don’t think HH was taking exception as much to her beliefs as to how obnoxious she was. She must be a former evangelist who’s rebelling against her parents. She comes off as strident, ridiculous and offensive. Period.

  49. Y’know Doug,

    The nun may or may not be what you say, but the issue is tens of thousands have had their civil liberties taken away due to this ban on Shugden in India and Nepal. People should have the right to worship what they choose without heavy handed punishments. Maybe the nun was very passionate and speaking up for those without a voice. Dalai Lama may express his opinion on Shugden but he should not enact or allow laws against Shugden practitioners. Period.

  50. Dear Jack Harness, I agree with what you said. Your words are well thought out and full of wisdom. Thank you for sharing.

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.…Instead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the ‘wrong’ practice. Actually Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong. But hypothetically, if they are, wouldn’t it be more Buddhistic to be accepting? So those who have views against Dorje Shugden should contemplate this. Those practicing Dorje Shugden should forbear with extreme patience, fortitude and keep your commitments. The time will come as predicted that Dorje Shugden’s practice and it’s terrific quick benefits will be embraced by the world and it will be a practice of many beings.

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