Is Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son the incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche?

A high lama of the Karma Kagyu touching the crown of his head to Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son who is said to be the reincarnation of the 14th Shamarpa.

The opinion piece below was sent to for publication. We accept submissions from the public, please send in your articles to [email protected].



By: Matthew Sinclair

His Holiness the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa Thaye Dorje and his wife Sangyumla.

Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s decision in early 2017 to return his monastic vows and marry Sangyumla Rinchen Yangzom certainly raised eyebrows. It also emboldened detractors who doubt the legitimacy of his appointment as the Karmapa. These detractors believe another Karmapa candidate, Ogyen Trinley, to be the true Karmapa. Ogyen Trinley was originally recognized by Tai Situ Rinpoche and the Chinese government, and was also endorsed by the Dalai Lama. To the general public, the Dalai Lama’s decision inherently implies that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is not the genuine reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa, Ranjung Rigpe Dorje. However, history disagrees.

Karmapa Thaye Dorje was recognized and enthroned in 1992 by the 14th Shamarpa, Mipham Chokyi Lodro (also known as the Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche). This was done in accordance with established Karma Kagyu tradition.

Within the Karma Kagyu tradition responsibility to recognize the Karmapa lies with four regents. In recent times, three of these regents have recognized competing candidates, confusing followers all over the world. Orgyen Trinley Dorje (left) was recognized by Tai Situ Rinpoche; Trinley Thaye Dorje (middle) was recognized by Shamar Rinpoche; and Dawa Sangpo Dorje (right) was recognized by Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche. In-fighting between supporters of these candidates continues until today, a fact that has fractured the tradition deeply. Add to this the fact that the Dalai Lama interfered by backing Orgyen Trinley, a move with no traditional basis, the schism became a heated debate within the Tibetan community. In response, Shamar Rinpoche claimed that Orgyen Trinley’s recognition was incorrect, that he had evidence of this and that the Dalai Lama had no business in meddling in the affairs of the Kagyu lineage. Now Orgyen Trinley, who the Dalai Lama and the CTA nurtured for a decade has abandoned them and prefers to have freedom as a citizen of Dominica.

The Shamarpa is regarded as an emanation of the Buddha Amitabha. ‘Shamarpa’ literally means ‘the one with a ruby red crown’, a reference to the Shamarpa’s red crown, which is an exact replica of the Karmapa’s black crown, only the color is different. The similarity between the Karmapa’s and the Shamarpa’s crowns is not a coincidence – it is meant to symbolize the equivalence and inseparability of their mind-streams.

To the Karma Kagyu, both the Karmapa and the Shamarpa are equal in attainments and spiritual accomplishments. Historically, the Karmapa and the Shamarpa have found and enthroned each other’s incarnations, and have worked in unison to preserve the Karma Kagyu lineage. In endorsing Ogyen Trinley as the 17th Karmapa, the Dalai Lama broke a time-honoured tradition that began in the 13th century, which dictates that only the Shamarpa has legitimate authority to recognize Karmapa reincarnations.

The 14th Shamarpa and Karmapa Thaye Dorje

Still, the unknowing public took the Dalai Lama’s cue and most now view Karmapa Ogyen Trinley as the real reincarnation – and Karmapa Thaye Dorje as the false. In June 2014, with the two-Karmapa controversy still unresolved, the 14th Shamarpa entered into clear light.

Whilst it was not immediately apparent, Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s decision to return his monastic vows and marry was not for ordinary and samsaric reasons. It was to strengthen the 900-year-old Karma Kagyu that has been weakened by decades of infighting and which has been further fractured by the two-Karmapa controversy.

In announcing his decision, Karmapa Thaye Dorje said,

“I have a strong feeling, deep within my heart, that my decision to marry will have a positive impact not only for me, but also for the lineage. Following the wishes of my parents, and having had time to reflect, I deeply feel that I am being true to both myself and the lineage. Something beautiful, something beneficial will emerge, for all of us”.

The Karmapa’s decision to assume the life of an ordinary person is not unprecedented in the history of Tibetan Buddhism. Highly-attained lamas have sometimes taken on consorts to facilitate the return of great beings into the world.

For example, the 15th Karmapa, Khakyab Dorje married and fathered three sons, one of whom was the 2nd Jamgon Kongtrul and another, the 12th Shamarpa. The Sakya lineage, known for producing great masters with high supernatural abilities, follows a succession of father and son; taking on consorts is very much part of the Sakya’s posterity process.

Serkong Tsenshab Rinpoche

The practice is found even in the Gelug lineage. Serkong Dorje Chang took on a mysterious consort and their union produced the erudite Serkong Tsenshab Rinpoche, debate partner to the 14th Dalai Lama.

In the same vein, Karmapa Thaye Dorje displayed a high level of attainments when he returned his vows and married. They are not ordinary acts but the first steps to actualize a divine plan that will benefit the Karma Kagyu lineage and all sentient beings.

A little over a year after Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s marriage to Sangyumla, the couple announced that they were expecting their first child. He was born in August 2018. It is now believed that Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s newborn son, whom they named Thugsey, is the reincarnation of the 14th Shamarpa, Mipham Chokyi Lodro. However, there has been no official announcement so far.

In early 2019, Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s official website posted pictures of His Eminence Luding Khenchen Rinpoche presiding over Thugsey’s hair-cutting ceremony. A hair-cutting ceremony is usually performed when a person is being ordained as a monk. However, Thugsey was merely a few months old and far too young to be ordained. The hair-cutting ritual is also conducted at another very significant juncture – in recognition of the reincarnation of a high-incarnate lama. This would explain Thugsey’s hair-cutting.

High lamas of the Karma Kagyu touching the crowns of their heads to Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son who is said to be the reincarnation of the 14th Shamarpa.

In the weeks that followed, many Karma Kagyu lamas and scholars were seen touching the crowns of their heads to Thugsey’s feet. This is a sign of utmost respect and reverence, and is a firm indication that these lamas do not regard Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son as an ordinary being.

While it is a private Karma Kagyu affair, Thugsey’s hair-cutting ceremony offers insights indicating that significant changes to the power dynamics of Tibetan leadership are underway. What was most obvious was the unmistakable absence of the Dalai Lama and officials of the Tibetan government-in-exile.

Historically, each Tibetan Buddhist sect has had its own spiritual head and followed its respective sets of customs independently of the Tibetan government. This changed in exile. After 1959, the Dalai Lama and Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) came to be mistakenly regarded as having supremacy and authority over all Tibetan Buddhists sects.

It became customary for the Dalai Lama to be invited to preside over all important ceremonies and functions. This suited the ambitions of the Dalai Lama coterie very well. In fact, in the earlier days of exile, there was an attempt to merge all Tibetan Buddhist sects into a single school under the sole patronage of the Dalai Lama.

This plan failed but it did not stop the Tibetan leadership from imposing its will on the various Tibetan Buddhist sects using a range of unscrupulous methods. Pleasing the CTA and the Dalai Lama, and seeking the latter’s patronage became a matter of survival.

The moment when His Eminence Luding Khenchen Rinpoche, the 75th head of the Ngor tradition of the Sakya School of Tibetan Buddhism, cut the hair of Thugsey, symbolizing his taking refuge in the Three Jewels: the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha.

The Tibetan leadership have mete out retribution against individuals or groups – like Dorje Shugden worshippers – that fail to fall in line. Against this backdrop, the hair-cutting of Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son by Luding Khenchen Rinpoche instead of the Dalai Lama is telling. For a tulku of as prominent a lineage as the Shamarpa’s, it is expected that those who attend to young Thugsey would seek the highest and most respected lama possible to grace this momentous ceremony.

It is common for the Dalai Lama to be asked to play this role, given his ascendancy in exile, the reverence he commands, the prestige his name brings and for the high blessings that he is supposed to be able to bestow. That Karmapa Thaye Dorje did not request for the Dalai Lama to conduct Thugsey’s hair cutting says a lot about his views on the Tibetan leadership.

Firstly, it is an outright rejection of the Dalai Lama’s widely assumed spiritual authority over all Tibetan Buddhist sects. It is also a powerful statement declaring that Karmapa Thaye Dorje and the Karma Kagyu will not just survive on their own, but thrive.

His Holiness the 16th Karmapa Ranjung Rigpe Dorje (right) and the four Karma Kagyu regents. Sitting closest to the Karmapa is the 14th Sharmapa, denoting his rank as the second highest personage within the tradition.

If anyone has shown Karmapa Thaye Dorje that he and the Karma Kagyu can do without the support of the Tibetan leadership, then it is the Dalai Lama himself. He even declined to ordain the young Karmapa Thaye Dorje upon the request of the 14th Shamarpa. Karmapa Thaye Dorje thrived not because of the Tibetan leadership but in spite of it and, over the years, the reverence he commands has risen while respect for the Dalai Lama wanes.

Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s avoidance of the Dalai Lama and CTA should not be seen as an act of rebellion or even as insolence. Rather, it is a consequence of the gross misconduct of the Tibetan leadership that is increasingly marked by allegations of corruption, incompetence, sex scandals, infighting, interference in the internal affairs of Tibetan Buddhist schools and distortions of key tenets of Buddhism to suit their own purposes.

Karmapa Thaye Dorje is not alone in wanting to steer clear of the Tibetan leadership. Even the Dalai Lama-endorsed Karmapa Ogyen Trinley seems to have turned his back on the Tibetan leadership after leaving India in May 2017.

His newfound aversion is especially significant because he is said to have been chosen to succeed the Dalai Lama. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley seems to have decided that association with the Dalai Lama and CTA no longer carries the weight it did in the past. In fact, it is now an affliction given the way the Dalai Lama’s government has synthesized the practice of Buddhism with the Sino-Tibetan struggle turning adherents of Tibetan Buddhism into pawns for the CTA to mobilize.

H.H. the 16th Karmapa (foreground) and the 14th Shamarpa

Today after 60 years of political manipulations of the religion, the Tibetan leadership has never been weaker and more bereft of high lamas to lend it spiritual legitimacy. It has no Panchen Lama nor either of the two prominent Karmapas. The unlawful ban of Dorje Shugden lamas isolates it from the highest ranking tulkus in the Gelug lineage like Pabongka Choktrul Rinpoche and Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche. The Sakyas are preoccupied with internal succession matters and cannot offer any real long-term support while the Nyingmas have never truly subjected themselves to the Dalai Lama’s rule.

Without these high lamas from the different sects, there is little with which the Tibetan leaders can command the loyalty of the Tibetan people. Politically, the CTA has lost tremendous ground and no longer enjoys the level of support from India and the United States it did before. Even Tibetan refugees seem to have given up on their own leaders with the number in Tibetan settlements in India shrinking from 150,000 to a mere 85,000.

It is clear now that the Tibetan leadership is slipping through the cracks created by the many fault lines of their own creation. Unlike the two Karmapas, those who continue to go along with the CTA’s ill-fated policies do so at their own risk and at the risk of the religious organizations they represent.

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  1. The Karmapa’s baby already looks like the Sharmapa! 🙏


  2. I do agree with Fred Spencer. At only a few months old, he looks so alike the 14th Sharmapa. It is common for reincarnates of high lamas to look like their previous lives. It is good that another high lama has re-entered our world to bring the Dharma to the many that are without. From his reincarnation, it can also be said that one does not need the approval of the Dalai Lama to be able to reincarnate back into the human realm, what more in the optimum conditions. This is so contrary to what the Tibetan Leaders claim, especially for those who practiced the protector, Lord Dorje Shugden. Too bad for them, many high attained Lamas had returned, ie. Kyabje Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche, Kyabhe Dorje Chocktrul Rinpoche and even Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, had been formally recognized by the Dalai Lama. Weird don’t you think? Claiming Dorje Shugden practitioners will go to hell and yet the Dalai Lama officially recognizes them. What does that clearly tells you? Authentic Dorje Shugden practices are good for you! It helps you with a good human rebirth.

    • 😀😀😀😀

  3. Karmapa Thaye Dorje Ignores the Dalai Lama

    (1) Decades ago, the Shamarpa asked the Dalai Lama to endorse Thaye Dorje as the Karmapa. Shamarpa proved to the Dalai Lama that Thaye Dorje was the Karmapa. The Dalai Lama still refused as it will make the Dalai Lama look bad for endorsing Ogyen Trinley. ~

    It is known that Tai Situ Rinpoche recognized Ogyen Trinley by stealth. Tai Situ Rinpoche used the Dalai Lama’s fame to promote his Ogyen Trinley candidate in order to secure the Karmapa wealth of many generations.

    (2) Even though the Dalai Lama endorsed Ogyen Trinley as Karmapa, Thaye Dorje could not be restrained and continues to grow immensely in popularity all over the world. Even without the Dalai Lama’s endorsement, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is growing in importance. Tai Situ Rinpoche thought that without the Dalai Lama’s endorsement, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje would fall and become nothing. He was wrong.

    (3) Shamarpa Rinpoche had asked the Dalai Lama to at least ordain Thaye Dorje as a monk when he was very young and the Dalai Lama refused. This refusal hurt Shamarpa and the Karmapa Thaye Dorje very much. The Dalai Lama sidelined Shamarpa Rinpoche and Thaye Dorje. It was a grievous insult and detrimental interference. In the Karma Kagyu tradition it is the Shamarpa who is the first and foremost to recognize the Karmapas and only in his absence do other regents recognize the Karmapas. Not only did the Dalai Lama interfere in Karma Kagyu affairs but the Dalai Lama took sides. That caused so much fighting and disharmony within the Karma Kagyu school of Buddhism. Tai Situ Rinpoche was wrong not to consult with Shamarpa Rinpoche in all of this.

    (4) The Dalai Lama had no business interfering in Karma Kagyu traditions by recognizing a Karmapa. In the history of the Karma Kagyu school, there has not been one Karmapa recognized by a Dalai Lama nor did they ever need the Dalai Lama’s endorsement. This interference by the Dalai Lama has caused the Karma Kagyu school to take two sides and broke them up and created much disharmony. The disharmony, fighting and mud-slinging as to which one is the real Karmapa has continued to this day in 2019.

    (5) Shamarpa Rinpoche passed away in 2014 and it is up to the Karmapa to recognize his incarnation without the endorsement or interference of the Dalai Lama.

    (6) Now the Karmapa Thaye Dorje recognizes his son born in 2018 as Shamarpa Rinpoche’s incarnation and he does not ask the Dalai Lama to endorse this incarnation. He does not need it. The Dalai Lama has done enough damage. This will shift the dynamics of the Karma Kagyu school again in favor of the Shamarpa Rinpoche’s side. Unfortunately, it will make Ogyen Trinley look strange and left out in the cold. Within the Kagyu school, the Shamarpa is the next highest incarnation after the Karmapa. The Karmapas always recognized Shamarpas and vice versa. It shows that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje has the full authority to recognize the next highest incarnation within their school on his own. This Shamarpa will be spiritually trained by the Karmapa Thaye Dorje himself without the influence of the aged Dalai Lama and his government-in-exile which most Karma Kagyus consider a regime.

    (7) During the Kagyu Monlam prayers in Bodhgaya on January 2019, Thaye Dorje was there leading the Monlam (New Year’s prayers) and so was the Dalai Lama in Bodhgaya, giving teachings in another location nearby. The Dalai Lama, while in Bodhgaya, wanted to meet Thaye Dorje but Thaye Dorje refused. Thaye Dorje avoided the Dalai Lama. It was an insult to the Dalai Lama that he had to accept for all the damage he had done in their Karmapa affair and Karma Kagyu school.

    The Dalai Lama had sidelined Shamarpa and Thaye Dorje when asked to endorse Thaye Dorje decades ago. Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away to the USA, the Dalai Lama wants to be friendly with Thaye Dorje so that he can get on the Karma Kagyu school’s good side. Without the Dalai Lama’s permission, the two Karmapas met in France and decided to mend the rift. This will make the Dalai Lama look bad. Even the Dalai Lama did not think in such a big way or a middle way to help mend the rift. Too bad and too late for the Dalai Lama to make friends with the Karma Kagyu school of Buddhism.

    So much damage has been done. But the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is on the way to mending all this.

    Karma Tsogyal


  4. Read the attachment


  5. 👍👍Long live the karmapa & shamarpa . Karma kagyud high lama karmapa & sharmapa we agreed that . Most happiness time . Karmapa kyeno


  6. It is such good news that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son has been recognised as the Sharmapa. 🙏🙏🙏

    It is fully understandable that Thaye Dorje did not want to meet the Dalai Lama recently as so much damage to Karma Kagyu sect has been done and they certainly don’t want more. So better avoid any risk… 😅

  7. There are just too many confusions and problems created by CTA since the last century and two or even three Karmapas issue is just one of the many issues. I believe Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa and of course I also believe his decision to get married and to have a son must be due to spiritual reason. I have no doubt about that. Hence, I strongly believe Karmapa’s son is Sharmapa Rinpoche. The reason is clear. We cannot trust Tibetan leadership anymore. Of course Sharmapa Rinpoche knew it for long so he decided to take rebirth as Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son. Only by doing this, he knows he will be in good hand.

  8. There is a possibility that Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son is the Sharmapa, Tibetan leadership will surely try to get him on their side just that how they did at Kagyu Monlam because their Karmapa is not exactly in the right mind now. I do hope Karmapa Thaye Dorje will not get associated with them. it is bad news if he does.

    Look at what the Tibetan leadership did to Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is depressed and feels like he is unworthy of being the Karmapa. He fled India and decided not to return to and even took up a Dominican passport. This is a loud testimony of how Tibetan leadership treated their own people.

    On the other hand, Tibetan leadership is the one who rejected Karma Thaye Dorje first and even refuses to ordain him. Now, Karmapa Thaye Dorje is doing well while Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not doing so well and got himself involved in a relationship scandal. I guess Tibetan leadership is trying to get themselves a backup Karmapa in case the one they have now did not work out in the end?

    They tried to ambush Karmapa Thaye Dorje with the media at the Kagyu Monlam that he preceded but he was not there that day. I guess he must have heard and deliberately went missing to avoid them. The Tibetan leadership is such a bad company to have around because whatever they do is to get benefits for themselves.

  9. Agree with Dorje that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is doing better than Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. Although Karmapa Thaye Dorje is not recognized by HH Dalai Lama, he still can do well in spreading dharma. This showed that the recognition by HH Dalai Lama is not important and has no influence on Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Karma Kagyu lineage has its own tradition and process to recognize and enthrone Kamarpa without involving HH Dalai Lama.

    Congratulation to Karmapa Thaye Dorje for having his new born baby. It is believed that this baby will be a great being that is beneficial to many others in future.

  10. How blessed to have high lamas reincarnate for the benefit of sentient beings. I truly rejoice. Practitioners shouldn’t judge who is the correct Karmapa. We can always check the action and motivation that these great beings do. If they hold their vows and spread the Dhamma why do we want to find faults. Don’t forget that there are very heavy consequences for creating schism. But cta is the best among us in doing it. Creating doubts and segregation among Buddhists to look good and show power. All for politics and not for the betterment of peace among the people. Since they love their politics so much please stop meddling in other affairs. Cta just make thing worse.

  11. When it was announced that Karmapa Thaye Dorje would get married it was perplexing as the controversy as to who is the real Karmapa was not yet put to rest. However, being a Tibetan Buddhist and knowing that highly attained Lamas will not do anything that is futile, I trusted that the marriage was not something done to satisfy samsaric pleasures.

    It is awesome to know that Karmapa Thaye’s decision was to create an unbroken lineage of the Karma Kagyu tradition and having a heir for the lineage.

    It is also commendable to note that the Karma Kagyu tradition has made bold indications that they will not longer accept nor tolerate interferences by the 14th Dalai Lama and CTA with their affairs.

    It is my sincere hope that Dorje Shugden lineage will be able to do same and not let the Ban inflicted on them by CTA deter their faith.

  12. Good to hear Karmapa Thaye Dorje for organizing his own sect ceremony. This also tells CTA to lay their hands off on others privacy disregard which sect. CTA play too much on powering tingly caused disharmony, insurrection among Tibetans and non-Tibetans as well. CTA never respect on others so is not surprising the government in exile won’t be respected or gain respect from others. Anyway, rejoice to Karma Kagyu for there is hope for this lineage to grow.

  13. I am interested to know why Dalai Lama have to meddle into this and yet keep quiet about self immolation of Tibetans for freedom.

  14. I guess this is payback time for CTA. All the control that they put on the religious schools are now turning their backs on CTA. Actually, what authority do they have in order to control the schools? Every school have their own Abbot who can take care and manage the school without the interruption from the CTA which bring no benefit but sufferings to others. This is not what we call caring but wanting to have the power to control.

  15. What I can see is, Tibetan doesn’t need to a leader to represent Tibetan anymore. Coz they already have a central government which is China. All the Tibetan in Tibet already accepted this fact. Only Tibetan in Dharamsala don’t accept it, especially CTA. Karma Kagyu has already had a leader to represent their lineage. Nyingma already has their leader to represent their lineage. Same goes to Gelug. Then what for they need another leader to represent Tibetan, who doesn’t unite Tibetan, but to discriminate and segregate Tibetans who shows disagreement to the CTA? The time has come. Tibetan don’t need CTA anymore.

  16. It was a big blow to the Tibetan leadership that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje refused to meet the Dalai Lama in Bodhgaya. The Tibetan leadership should stop meddling in other sects’ affairs, focus on helping and benefiting Tibetans across the globe.

  17. Is this good that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje refused to meet the Dalai Lama in Bodhgaya ? No one can give a perfect answer, however this shown that CTA leadership was being rejected by Tibetans. CTA no longer can control everything. CTA leadership had only prove to the Tibetans that they want power but did not helping and benefit the Tibetan during the 60 years leadership.

  18. What was just happen in Karma Kagyu lineage i hope can come true to keep their lineage continue and no politic issue control the religion affair. Karmapa Thaye Dorje suddenly return his vow and get married and produce the son which might be Sharmapa incarnation. This show the high lama ability to continue benefit sentient being. How true or not Tibetan leadership will not able interset Karma Kagyu tradition.again high lama incarnation , create more negative karma for themselve.

  19. A good leader will lead his/her people to complete a mission with much care, consideration, love & understand each of the team members, to place each team member in a suitable position to increase the effectiveness .

    In the case of CTA, they are apparently not a good leader as a whole as because the leaders are enjoying much wealth by using the name of Tibetan to collect donations & their people are striving to live. 😔


  20. Every sect has their own spiritual head and followed its respective tradition or custom independently of the Tibetan government. This has been the way since before exile and why it changes when in exile? With what right the Tibetan leadership has to interfere the long tradition of a sect and why can’t the Tibetan leadership just focus on what they supposed to do which is to bring the Tibetan in exile back to their homeland?

    It’s always heartwarming to see how a sect continue their tradition to protect their lineage and out of political agenda. Rejoice for His Holiness the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa Thaye Dorje and his wife Sangyumla for their newborn son. The highly attained lama will have their own method to manifest the situation and condition to benefit the lineage.

    On the other hand Karmapa Ogyen Trinley which ran away from the Tibetan leadership painted a clear picture how much unethical the leadership can be. So at this point would Dalai Lama turn his head to support and be friended Karmapa Thaye Dorje since his chosen one has left him? It’s really a big slap for the Tibetan leadership.

    When spirituality being push into political agenda we can see the genuine spiritual practitioner will act the other way round if it against the spiritual principal because the truth can never turn down.

    May the Karma Kagyu lineage continue to flourish and all their genuine high lamas have long life and continue the legacy to benefit all sentient beings.

  21. First of all, I rejoice for the arrival of the 15th Shamarpa. This should be the way the tradition must be carried own. This showed that all the true high lamas have the power of choosing their parents. In this case the 14th Shamarpa is back to be the son of his beloved Karmapa.

    Karmapa Ogyen Trinley seems to have decided that association with the Dalai Lama and CTA no longer carries the weight it did in the past. But the thing is no one will want a leader that splitting their nation. What benefits have Dalai Lama and CTA brought to Kagyu, Sakya, Ningma and even Gelug itself other than creating schism among all. Why do they still want to listen to CTA and Dalai Lama?

  22. Contemplate this -

    Indian journalists sound desperate when they talk about terrorist attacks on India. As this article correctly states, there is little that India can do to address terrorism as they seem to operate from Pakistan. To deal with the terrorists, Indians will have to literally attack Pakistan which it cannot do.

    Well, there is something India can do which is to stop Dharamsala’s terrorist activities against China being executed from Indian soil. The Tibetans have been attacking China for decades, yet they say they wish to return to Tibet. How do you return to a place you constantly criticize? The Dalai Lama is literally begging China to allow him to visit the Five Peaks of Manjushri pilgrimage site in China and also his birthplace in Amdo, Tibet. But if the Dalai Lama keeps criticizing China, why would they sit at the bargaining table with him? India allows for all of this to happen on Indian soil, so that would irritate China.

    Yet India wants concessions from China on the terrorist issue. Meanwhile, Beijing equates Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) leader Hafiz Saeed to India supporting the Dalai Lama against China for five decades now. Furthermore, India wants China to speak up against Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) Masood Azhar. But India does not speak up against Dalai Lama. Whether the world thinks the Dalai Lama is the good guy or not, he is a thorn in China’s side so anyone that supports him is not supporting China. Similar to the situation, LeT’s Hafiz Saeed and JeM’s Masood Azhar are a thorn in India’s side but they do not bother China and her allies, so why should China do anything about them? If India does something on the Dalai Lama, then it would be fair to ask China to do something about their support of Lashkar-e-Taiba leader Hafiz Saeed and Jaish-e-Mohammed’s Masood Azhar. Simple equation.

    These reports are really bare-faced hypocrisy. It implies one nation is helpless against terrorists because the terrorists camp out in another country. But that did not stop the US from heavily bombing Iraq on the basis that it was harboring terrorists. The US did not hesitate to overthrow the government and murder its leader Saddam Hussein.

    It is also very hypocritical that the same journalists who are outraged at China’s annexation of Tibet are quiet about Israel’s annexation of Palestine.

    It is interesting to note that most terrorist attacks are aimed at the US and her allies. Everyone conveniently forgets that the US has been throwing their weight around for decades and can even determine which leader they want in other countries.

    Back to India – if China can convince North Korea to have détente with the US, China can similarly help India with the JeM. India simply has to give up the Tibet card. The article is also a one-sided opinion piece because India faces as many terrorist threats from Bangladesh, with just as many terrorist camps, but because Bangladesh is not China, their involvement is not mentioned.

    India is a great country. China and India as friends will be able to influence the globe literally economically and, eventually, militarily. But India has to play fair. By supporting the Dalai Lama, India will get nothing and furthermore, it will be a stumbling block to China’s 1.4 billion people becoming friends with India’s 1.3 billion people.

    The Dalai Lama has to be compassionate and stop speaking against China because he has to consider the difficulty he places India in as his host. Each time he criticizes and allows his refugees to protest against China and ask for western support, it makes China look bad. So if the Dalai Lama wants China and India to become closer and benefit each other economically then he has to be silent on this already.

    The Diplomat’s Prarthana Basu sums it up very well by saying in the article below that “Now with another terrorist attack infuriating India’s populace, the mystery behind this Chinese silence remains unsolved. While most attribute China’s apparent silence as a favor to Pakistan, as both continue to maintain their “all-weather friendship,” others argue that China holds India responsible for granting political asylum to the Tibetan leader Dalai Lama, whom Beijing equates to Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) leader Hafiz Saeed.”

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  24. Karmapa Thaye Dorje and his son Sharmapa Rinpoche has every right to ignore His Holiness the Dalai Lama. They are from an entirely different sect and His Holiness the Dalai Lama has no jurisdiction or authority in the Karma Kagyu sect. Contrary to what the public believes, His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not the leader of Tibetan Buddhism and he is not even the leader of Gelug sect which he belongs to.

    He commands the respect of all the sects because he is bringing Tibetan Buddhism to the entire world and he is working tirelessly for the spread of Buddhism. On another note, he is the most famous lama in the entire world and being associated with him will bring benefit for oneself and also the monastery or Dharma center. That is why many seek for His Holiness’s approval or to be associated with him.

    However, Karmapa Thaye Dorje made the right choice for not associated with His Holiness because His Holiness is associated with the Tibetan government which is proven to be bad news. They are better off without the influence of the Tibetan government to maintain the purity of their lineage and not to mention that there will be fewer problems.

  25. When the Karmapa Thaye Dorje was in Bodhgaya last year for the Kagyu Monlam Festival, he totally ignored the Dalai Lama. The fact that the Dalai Lama is ignored clearly shows that the Tibetans are losing confident and their respect to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. For the past few years, the Dalai Lamas has shown many mistakes especially making offensive comments. Many international people have lost their respect for the Dalai Lama as well.

    The Karmapa Thaye Dorje doesn’t really need the Dalai Lama’s endorsement to confirm his status. He was recognised by his own lineage according to its tradition and this is enough. No lamas of other lineages have any significance in the recognition of Karma Kagyu Tulku.

    The CTA and the Dalai Lama should be alarmed by now. The Karma Kagyu lamas are going against them, it is just a matter of time lamas of other lineages will do the same. If they don’t change the way they deal with the Tibetans or do something beneficial to the Tibetans, they will go down very fast. Soon, they will lose support from all Tibetans and they will have to dissolve. This will be good news to Dorje Shugden followers as well, it means the ban is no longer valid.

  26. This is ridiculous that CTA still has not chosen who is the real Karmapa between Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Why is it so difficult for them to choose the real Karmapa? They recognized Karmapa Ogyen Trinley so many years ago when Sharmapa already recognized Karmapa Thaye Dorje as the true Karmapa. They went against Sharmapa’s wishes by recognizing their own Karmapa and used His Holiness’s fame to garner support for Karmapa Ogyen Trinley.

    Since they are the one that recognized Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, why did they not announcing Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is the real Karmapa now? Why is there a delay? Are they afraid to do so because Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not exactly favorable for the public now with the scandal that is going on?

    I heard the Tibetan government wanted to meet up with Karmapa Thaye Dorje at the Karma Kagyu Monlam but Karmapa was not there. If they rejected him as the real Karmapa when they recognise Ogyen Trinley, why are they trying to meet him now? Suspicious.

  27. His Holiness the Dalai Lama had rejected the Karmapa Thaye Dorje before when Sharmapa first recognized him as the Karmapa. He even refused to ordain him when Sharmapa requested for it. Clearly, His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Tibetan leadership does not want to have anything to do with him.

    If that is what they want, why are His Holiness the Dalai Lama and CTA trying to connect with Karmapa Thaye Dorje? What are they trying to do? Aren’t they ashamed of what they did and now they try to connect with him? I guess it must be related to Karmapa Ogyen Trinley’s rebellion to CTA’s wishes.

    Karmapa Ogyen Trinley had been running away from CTA and he even took up a Dominican passport. It signifies Karmapa will not be under control of the CTA anymore. CTA needs him to rule over Tibetan during post Dalai Lama era. They are desperate to find a replacement and that is why they are trying to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje.

  28. 1st Time Dalai Lama Finally Admits His Illness Was Serious

    In the past it is customary to cover up the Dalai Lama’s illnesses. It could be to not worry his flock. It could also be to not show the world he is just another vulnerable human being. Or it could be he does not want to disappoint people to show he is not a god? Whatever the reasons, the Dalai Lama and regime are well known for covering up his serious illnesses. In the past few years he had cancer of the prostate and that was covered up till the press dug it up. Now with this new video just out April 2019, Dalai Lama admits he was recently very ill. It was serious.

    Unfortunately the Tibetan cause will die with the Dalai Lama when he passes. He did nothing to groom up a new leader as he is a dictator. A ruler for life. He has been in power for over 60 years. He will never groom up another person to replace him because he is touted as a god.

  29. Unlike 5 years ago, Tibetan leader Lobsang Sangay is not invited to Prime Minister Modi’s swearing-in ceremony this time. It is clear that PM Modi of India snubs the Tibetan leadership once again in favour of deeper ties with China. The Tibetan leadership finds itself increasingly isolated as nobody wants to offend China by lending any support to the ungrateful Tibetans.

    PM Modi snubs Tibetan leadership for swearing-in ceremony
    By Tenzin Dharpo
    May. 30, 2019
    DHARAMSHALA, May 30: The Indian Prime Minister who is fresh off of a massive win in the Indian Lok Sabha elections has done a U-turn by not inviting exile Tibetan government’s President to the swearing in ceremony due to be held later today, in a bid to not anger Beijing.
    The President of the exile Tibetan government, known officially as the Central Tibetan Administration, Dr. Lobsang Sangay’s absence today at the Rashtrapati Bhavan in New Delhi marks a stark contrast to 2014 when the elected Tibetan leader was seated in the former rows at the ceremony when PM Modi was sworn into office the first time around.
    The invitation to Dr. Sangay in May 2014 drew strong objection from the Chinese government who lodged an official protest censuring New Delhi’s disregard for the so-called ‘One-China policy’. Many said at the time that the invite was posturing at most, of Modi’s intent to India’s neighbor and biggest rivals both in Asia and global arenas.
    The New Delhi-Beijing relations post the Doklam stand off and Wuhan summit has meant that India has given a cold shoulder to the exile Tibetan set up, thereby taking a step back in using the much-touted ‘Tibet card’. The shift in policy has markedly been seen on the ground with New Delhi issuing an advisory to senior leaders to avoid His Holiness the Dalai Lama or pushing the CTA to shift the “thank you India” ceremony from New Delhi to Dharamshala last year.
    The head of the Tibetan polity who extended pleasantries to PM Modi on his win, however may have anticipated the snub. Days after Modi’s historic election win, Sangay flew to the United States and is scheduled to return on June 5 to India next week.

  30. Is this the real reincarnation of the Sharmapa? It is not up to the Dalai Lama to agree or not. Spiritually, the Dalai Lama has no say in the matter in Karma Kagyu lineage. Every lineage has their own spiritual head. In Gelug lineage, the Dalai Lama is only one of the spiritual lineage, the highest authority is actually the Gaden Tripa, who is also known as the Lama Tsongkhapa on earth.

    Therefore, it is very misleading to think the Dalai Lama is above all and everyone has to kow-tow to him. We have to respect him because he is a great Dharma teacher but that does not mean we have to follow his instructions.

    Karmapa Thaye Dorje has done nothing wrong not to meet up with the Dalai Lama, he is not arrogant, it is simply because there is no need to do that.

  31. I beleive that 17th Gyalwa Karmapa Thaye Dorje knows what best for the lineage and his decision to return his monastic vows and marry Sangyumla Rinchen Yangzom has brought the continuity of the lineage and tradition. Every lineage has its tradition and Karma Kargyu which has 900 years of history is definitely authentic.

    Thaye Dorje definitely knows what he’s doing and he didn’t invite Dalai Lama is valid because it’s not necessary for Dalai Lama to be there as this is the Karma Kargyu event and they are following their tradition for their lineage.

  32. Oh wow, the two Karmapas have jointly written a long life prayer to Sharmapa and both recognised the son of the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the reincarnation of Sharmapa.

    I think both Karmapas are acknowledging each other as the real Karmapa. Both of them has jointly written the long life prayer for Sharmapa Rinpoche. It is interesting that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje and the previous Sharmapa were not in good term but now Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is recognising the reincarnation of the Sharmapa.

    It is possible that both Karmapas are real as high lamas have the capability to emanate into different forms or multiple individuals at the same time for the sake of all sentient beings. I wonder what will be the next explosive news, will the two Karmapas be enthroned in Rumtek Monastery?

  33. In Karma Kagyu tradition n history there is only one Karmapa reincarnation and declared by Karma Kagyu High Reicarnated Lama or by self declaration.And here True n Genuine is only one Sikkim,India born Karmapa Dawa Sangpoo Dorjee 🙏.To stop and clarify the confusion among general Buddhist people around the world n particulaly Kagyu linege follower regarding claimant controversy HH always used to say all three Karmapa claimant must sit for important test i.e 1) Traditional Test & 2) Scientific test .If Govt.of India n State Authority is willing to do so than the controversy can be solved once n for all.
    Karmapa Khenno 🙏
    Karmapa Khenno 🙏
    Karmapa Khenno 🙏

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.…Instead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the ‘wrong’ practice. Actually Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong. But hypothetically, if they are, wouldn’t it be more Buddhistic to be accepting? So those who have views against Dorje Shugden should contemplate this. Those practicing Dorje Shugden should forbear with extreme patience, fortitude and keep your commitments. The time will come as predicted that Dorje Shugden’s practice and it’s terrific quick benefits will be embraced by the world and it will be a practice of many beings.

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