The Unreliability of the Nechung Oracle

Nechung Dorje Drayangling Monastery is not far from Drepung Monastery in Tibet

The Nechung oracle is the state oracle of Tibet. The governing council of Tibet and the Dalai Lama consult him on all matters of state. Usually, it is the chief minister of the Dharma Protector Pehar by the name of Dorje Drakden who takes possession of the oracle and acts as the mouthpiece for Pehar. The Horpas, an ethnic group that lived east of the Kokonor Lake, originally worshiped Pehar. According to oral tradition, this deity was one of the many deities and powerful spirits that challenged Guru Padmasambhava when he first came to Tibet. Consequently, he was subjugated and sworn to protect the Dharma. According to another source, a Bön (indigenous shamanistic tradition of Tibet) general by the name of Tara Lugong brought back the worship of this deity when he seized a meditational center near Kanchow of the Bhata Hor, a tribe of Uighurs, towards the end of the 8th century CE. Pehar was the protector of Samye Monastery and also a protector of the Dharma in general. During the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama (1642-1682), the worship of Pehar first moved from Samye to Tse Gungtang and then to the present site of Nechung Monastery. At Tse Gungtang, Pehar was believed to have started a fire at a monastery. This angered a powerful high lama there who, using his meditational powers, captured Pehar in a box and threw him in a river.

A thangka representation of Nechung Pehar

This box floated westwards into the vicinity of Drepung Monastery, where an abbot requested an attendant to retrieve it. While the attendant was carrying the box back to the monastery, he opened the box out of curiosity. Pehar, in the form of a bird, escaped and perched upon a nearby tree before disappearing. It was around this tree that a chapel was later built to Pehar. The Fifth Dalai Lama expanded this chapel which later became known as Nechung Monastery. Then, he installed the Nechung oracle as the state oracle of Tibet. In spite of holding the respected position of state oracle, the Nechung oracle over the centuries has been beset with numerous controversies. Hence, many high lamas both in the past and today refuse to consult the Nechung oracleeven on the smallest of matters as this oracle has been proven to give inaccurate pronouncements and prophecies over the years.  

During the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama

A statue of Dorje Shugden riding on a horse that was believed to have been made by the Fifth Dalai Lama

It is generally believed that the current Dorje Shugden ban was substantiated by a long-standing feud that extends back to the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama, who had initially blamed the calamities befalling Lhasa at the time on the spirit of the deceased lama, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. The Fifth Dalai Lama commissioned Nyingma lamas to perform powerful fire pujas to eradicate the ‘spirit’, Dorje Shugden. However, the pujas were ineffective as Dorje Shugden was of the same indestructible nature as Yamantaka. The Dalai Lama realized this and composed a praise to Dorje Shugden, built the shrine Trode Khangsar and crafted statues according to the vision he had of Dorje Shugden. According to the elder monks of Gaden Phelgyeling Monastery, the Fifth Dalai Lama was the one who appointed Dorje Shugden to be the protector of their monastery as well. Thus, whatever issues that might have existed between Dorje Shugden and the Fifth Dalai Lama were resolved. Since then, many Dalai Lama incarnations have arisen with no issues with Dorje Shugden.  

During the time of the 13th Dalai Lama

It is believed that issues with Dorje Shugden resurfaced during the time of the 13th Dalai Lama but historical records reveal the truth of the matter – that he merely reshuffled state approval of deities. At that time, Tibetan society was rife with the worship of innumerable deities and oracles. Charlatans had taken advantage of the situation, posing as oracles of make-believe deities and cheating people of money and offerings. To curb the situation, the 13th Dalai Lama outlawed the worship of a number of such deities and oracles. On the other hand, the Dalai Lama continued to approve of the state oracles of Nechung and Gadong, Dorje Shugden from Trode Khangsar, Tsangpa (believed to be the peaceful aspect of Setrab) and the Tenma oracle from Drepung.

The embalmed holy remains of Domo Geshe Rinpoche Ngawang Kelsang (1866-1936) – the only known image of him

There was a high-ranking police officer for British India by the name of Legden. He was a Sherpa (of Tibetan ethnicity) from Darjeeling, and had maintained special relations with the 13th Dalai Lama. He often traveled to Tibet and was bestowed a high rank by the Dalai Lama for being the founder of the first Tibetan police regiment in Lhasa. On one occasion, he was requested to investigate a money-forgery racket by the Dalai Lama and was successful in arresting several Nepalese men in Calcutta who were involved in this racket. He was also awarded medals of honor by the British government in London for his service in India. His memoirs include a personal letter from the 13th Dalai Lama thanking him for his service to Tibet, and several gifts including a walking stick. The Dalai Lama also gave him some special sacred items which were to be sent to a modern temple of Dorje Shugdenas well as a Guru Rinpoche temple, both founded by Domo Geshe Rinpoche. The above are some noteworthy anecdotes that confirm the 13th Dalai Lama had actually approved of the worship of Dorje Shugden, contrary to what is disseminated today.  

Younghusband British invasion and the demise of the 13th Dalai Lama

The Nechung oracle is infamously linked to the defeat of the Tibetans at the hands of the British expedition in 1904. Prior to this, the Tibetans had taken measures to curb the growing influence of the British in the Sikkim area. On the advice of the Nechung oracle, the Tibetans forcibly occupied a mountain within the influence of the British. The Nechung oracle said that the magical powers emanating from the mountain would fend off the advance of the British troops into Tibet. Needless to say, the British forces recaptured the mountain fairly easily with a feeble resistance from the Tibetans. Then in 1904, the Younghusband Expeditionary Force began to advance into Central Tibet after a failed negotiation attempt. Colonel Francis Younghusband led the British troops into the Tibetan heartland. The Nechung oracle was invoked and proclaimed that the British army would reach Central Tibet and predicted that the Tibetan army would be victorious. The British did arrive in Lhasa but, unlike Nechung’s prophecy, easily defeated the poorly equipped Tibetans. The Dalai Lama fled the country along with the Nechung oracle. Upon his return when the had British departed, the Nechung oracle was dismissed from his position as the state oracle.

Expedition leader Col Younghusband (centre) with Captain Hayman (right) and other officers in Tibet in 1903

When the 13th Dalai Lama fell ill, the Nechung oracle was traditionally invoked to advice on the best course of action to heal the Dalai Lama. Towards the end of the 13th Dalai Lama’s days, the Nechung oracle was summoned whereupon he prescribed a certain herbal remedy and prepared the medicine in a cup of water himself. Witnesses said that the 13th Dalai Lama refused to drink the concoction but the Nechung oracle insisted and literally poured the tonic down the Dalai Lama’s throat. The Dalai Lama’s condition deteriorated after that and he soon lost consciousness and never said another word. It was said that the Dalai Lama was prescribed the wrong medicine for his condition and that was what killed the Dalai Lama. It is widely believed that, since the time of the 13th Dalai Lama until today, the Nechung oracle has been under the influence of an evil spirit instead of Nechung/Pehar, thus causing much mischief and problems for the Tibetan peoples such as the untimely death of the 13th Dalai Lama. Some believe that a tulku of Nyarong who had become a raging spirit is entering the Nechung oracle. Another source claims that the Nechung oracle is taking trance of a previously deposed oracle. Whatever it is, rumors and controversy have been shadowing the Nechung Oracle ever since, not to mention glaringly wrong predictions and prophecies.  

The 14th Dalai Lama’s escape from Tibet

The biography of the 14th Dalai Lama states that, during the tumultuous period of 1959, it was Nechung via his oracle who told the Dalai Lama that it was time to escape from Tibet. However, according to letters and documents from Changtso Lobsang Yeshe, it was in fact a message from Dorje Shugden that prompted the Dalai Lama to begin his flight to India. After the Chinese forces fired two cannon shots at the Potala Palace, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had requested Rato Chowar Rinpoche and Kensur Ngawang Dakpa of Sera Mey Monastery to consult the Panglung Oracle about the imminent threat to Tibet. Changtso Lobsang Yeshe became the main intermediary between Kensur Ngawang Dakpa and Dorje Shugden via the 6th Panglung Oracle because the Chinese were observing Kensur Ngawang Dakpa rather tightly. Thus, it was Changtso Lobsang Yeshe who ended up representing Kensur Ngawang Dakpa at a private audience on this pressing matter with the Protector Dorje Shugden on 10th March 1959 via the 6th Panglung Oracle. During that period, a sinister Chinese plot to have the Dalai Lama and many other religious leaders arrested and harmed was uncovered. And it was at this crucial juncture that Dorje Shugden gave specific advice for the Dalai Lama to leave Tibet without further delay. Dorje Shugden also specified the exact time and day of departure, the escape route, and also gave further instructions on what to do to ensure a successful escape. Conversely, the Nechung oracle had adviced the Dalai Lama to remain in Tibet. Thus, the 14th Dalai Lama’s life and the spread of Tibetan Buddhism in the world is attributed to Dorje Shugden and not the Nechung oracle.  

How Nechung misled the 14th Dalai Lama

In 1970, the 14th Dalai Lama was still practicing Dorje Shugden, exactly as he had been taught by His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. It was also widely known that the Dalai Lama had his personal monastery, Namgyal Monastery, perform monthly pujas to Dorje Shugden. However, around the time when the Dalai Lama was about to receive Dorje Shugden sogtaeor life-entrustment initiation from Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, the state oracle took trance and misled him away from the practice with negative counsel about Dorje Shugden. Therefore, it is clear that the Dorje Shugden ban did not start from a vision or meditative realization but was influenced by an external source.

In the 70s before the ban, the Dalai Lama’s private Namgyal Monastery was doing monthly Dorje Shugden pujas

The Dalai Lama had two extraordinary gurus, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. Of the two tutors, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche was the ‘father’ and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was the ‘mother’. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche not only gave teachings on the Lamrim and other Dharma topics to the Dalai Lama but also taught everything else he knew from table manners to the proper etiquette expected of a high lama. In fact, the Dalai Lama has received the most tantric transmissions and Lamrim teachings from Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. Even Kyabje Ling Rinpoche received the Lamrim teachings from Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. Thus, whenever the Dalai Lama gives lamrim teachings, he should recite the prayer to solicit the blessings of the lineage masters beforehand, according to tradition. However, due to the Dorje Shugden controversy, Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have been omitted from the list of lineage masters. This is a travesty of tradition and lineage – these two great masters are major lineage holders of the Gelugpa tradition and omitting them would mean that the lineage is broken.  

Pisu Jola’s Book

Pisu Jola was an educated lay Tibetan man. He sponsored the Dorje Shugden statue in the great prayer hall of Gaden Tsokchen, which was consecrated by the Dalai Lama, the two tutors – Kyabje Ling Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and other high lamas. However, when the ban on Dorje Shugden began, the Dalai Lama decreed that the statue was to be removed. Thus, the Gaden oracle had the statue placed in his own temple instead. When Pisu Jola found out about this, he was very disturbed and pleaded with the religious affairs office not to carry out the plan. At that time, Nyingma Lama Kamtrul was the person in charge. Pisu Jola pleaded with him not to do so. He said, I do not have a very long time to live. I do not want to die in such great disappointment… In other words, he was very respectful. But the lama responded by admonishing the old man saying, You stupid old man! If you are afraid of your death, you should listen to the Dalai Lama. Disheartened by the state of affairs, Pisu Jola decided to write a small but powerful book about the Dorje Shugden issue. Guru Deva Rinpoche sponsored the publication of Pisu Jola’s book. The Central Tibetan Administration were very unhappy when the book began circulating, as it contained many true stories that they wished to suppress. So desperate were they, that the CTA even offered a reward for each copy of Pisu Jola book that was handed over to them!

The Nechung Oracle in full regalia as he takes trance of Dorje Drakden who acts as a mouthpiece for Nechung

So what is all the fuss about? Well, one of the stories in Pisu Jola’s book is the famous story of the circumstances surrounding Kyabje Ling Rinpoche’s passing. When Kyabje Ling Rinpoche was seriously ill, Ling Ladrang (household), Changtzos (assistants) and the Abbot of Sera Mey Monastery at that time requested for an emergency trance with the Nechung oracle in order to consult the Dharma Protector Nechung for a way to heal Ling Rinpoche’s illness. The paper containing the questions pertaining to Ling Rinpoche’s health was presented to Nechung in trance, who took it, crumpled it into a ball and put it under his buttocks. Nechung then proclaimed that if Ling Rinpoche’s condition improved in three days time, there would be no harm to Ling Rinpoche’s life. Nechung further commented, Obstacles from the big is put on the head of the small. This was interpreted to mean that the Dalai Lama’s obstacles (‘big’) were being suffered by Ling Rinpoche (‘small’). This statement got the old Ling Ladrang Changtzo worked up. “How can the Guru be considered the ‘small’ and the student the ‘big’?” the Changtso said. The Ling Ladrang Changtzo grabbed Nechung in trance by his clothes and scolded Nechung to his face saying, Every day we offer you liquor, tea and pray to you. And in difficult times like these, you say such things and never help!!!Nechung left the body of the oracle and never took trance in the presence of the Changtzo again.  

The Great Return to Tibet

The Dalai Lama with the Indian beggar girl who claimed to be the incarnation of a Hindu goddess

In more recent times, an Indian beggar girl traveled to Dharamsala a few years ago claiming to be an incarnation of the Hindu goddess Sambhavi. Her parents demanded a private audience with the Dalai Lama, claiming that the girl had a special message for him. In ‘trance’, she warned him of health concerns and also gave a prediction that Tibetans would return to Tibet in 2012. The incident was covered by the news channel Al-Jazeera and French Channel 5. To verify the girl’s claims, the Nechung oracle was invoked and the Dharma Protector concurred with the girl’s predictions. However, the year 2012 came and went and nothing happened. Even earlier in 1986, the Nechung oracle offered another prediction concerning the Tibetan cause. The oracle pronounced that in the Year of the Dragon, something extraordinary would happen; the Tibetans in exile and abroad would reunite and that this day was very near. At that time, a Geshe was visiting Lhasa and people would come up and ask him, “Are you from abroad?” When he said yes, they asked further, “Did you know that our state oracle has given this prediction?” And they showed him a slip of paper that had the prediction written on it. On another occasion, the state oracle said, I will send 100 million divine soldiers to China Come 1987, the Year of the Dragon, the Tibetans organized an uprising against the Chinese, optimistic that Nechung’s prediction would come true. However, the Chinese police swiftly crushed the uprising and no divine soldiers came to assistant.In fact, Nechung would make further (and similar) predictions about the Year of the Ox (1997) and the Year of the Pig (1995) but with no success. The Tibetan situation remained the same.  

Conclusion

It is clear from these anecdotes that Nechung has a track record of making unreliable, inaccurate and plain-out wrong pronouncements and prophecies. These incorrect predictions have created tremendous trouble for the Dalai Lama and for the cause of Tibet. Yet, it is puzzling to note that despite all the problems that arose due to the reliance on the state oracle, the Nechung oracle is still very much revered and consulted to this day. Generally, many high lamas still have high regard for the Dharma Protector Nechung, and some believe that the being entering the Nechung oracle’s body is not necessarily Nechung himself. In fact, some say that a powerful malignant spirit of someone who had been murdered by the CTA has been entering the state oracle, and intentionally making incorrect pronouncements – karma coming back for the Tibetan leadership. Whatever it is, there is a general belief that the trance of the Nechung oracle is not and has not been pure. In all likelihood, Nechung’s pronouncement against Dorje Shugden is yet another fake prophecy designed to create more harm in Tibetan society. Very plausible considering that all the Dorje Shugden ban has achieved is to create suffering, misery and heartache for all involved.

 

Addendum

Zasep Tulku Rinpoche’s autobiography ‘A Tulku’s Journey from Tibet to Canada’, published in 2016, provides historical evidence and irrefutable proof that the Central Tibetan Administration is falsifying the facts when it comes to the practice of the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden.

The autobiography of Zasep Tulku Rinpoche, a high lama of the Gelug lineage, provides accurate historical accounts of the Dorje Shugden practice. Click to enlarge.

The back cover of the book, click to enlarge.

 


 

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Historical accounts show that prior to the politicization of the Dorje Shugden practice by the Central Tibetan Administration, this popular deity was relied upon by Dharma practitioners to help in their spiritual practice. Contrary to detractors’ claims about Dorje Shugden being ‘anti-Dharma’, this Dharma Protector practice was traditionally deemed to be suitable to be practiced alongside the Highest Yoga Tantras.

 


 

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Zasep Rinpoche and his family were able to escape to safety prior to the events of 1959 through the clairvoyance and prophetic advice of Dorje Shugden through one of his oracles, Lama Gelong Chojor Gyamtso.

 


 

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Oracles of the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden were known for the accuracy of their prophecies due to Dorje Shugden being a fully enlightened deity with perfect clairvoyance. As stated clearly by Zasep Rinpoche in his autobiography ‘A Tulku’s Journey from Tibet to Canada’, Dorje Shugden warned the Tibetans of the impending loss of their homeland but his advice was mostly ignored by the Tibetan government.

The Tibetan government chose to consult the worldly state protector Nechung, and Nechung advised that the Dalai Lama should remain in Tibet where he would be safe. This was mistaken advice, as historical events would later show. Fortunately for Tibetan Buddhists all around the world, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang had great faith in Dorje Shugden and consulted the protector for advice on the Dalai Lama’s safety. Dorje Shugden via the Panglung Oracle urgently adviced the Dalai Lama to leave for India immediately and gave the exact escape route. In saving the Dalai Lama from certain harm, Dorje Shugden prevented the destruction of Tibetan Buddhism and preserved the future of the Tibetan culture and people.

Zasep Rinpoche’s account of events concur with monastic records that it was indeed Dorje Shugden who saved the Dalai Lama instead of Nechung, contrary to the claims of the Tibetan leadership.

 


 

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Dorje Shugden’s practice was first established within the Sakya school of Tibetan Buddhism. The Sakya Throneholders regarded this Dharma Protector as an enlightened being and Dorje Shugden, together with Dorje Setrab and Tsiu Marpo formed the triune of Sakya Protectors known as Gyalpo Sum. Today, Sakya practitioners claim that Dorje Shugden was never widely practiced by their lineage but history proves otherwise. The undeniable fact is that before the CTA’s religious ban, Dorje Shugden was practiced first by the Sakyas and was later transmitted to the Gelug school where it was practiced by the majority of the Gelugpas.

 


 

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Contrary to the CTA’s claims that Dorje Shugden’s practice is sectarian, Zasep Rinpoche’s autobiography shows how practitioners of all four schools of Tibetan Buddhism lived and practiced together in harmony, especially during the early years of exile in India. It was only when the CTA launched a virulent smear campaign against Dorje Shugden that the general public began to label Dorje Shugden a sectarian practice. In truth, Dorje Shugden’s practice is no more sectarian than the practices of other Dharma Protectors such as Mahakala Bernagchen, Achi Chokyi Drolma or Dorje Legpa, who protect the Karma Kagyu, Drikung Kagyu and Nyingma schools respectively.

 


 

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By the 1980s, the Tibetan government had failed to fulfil multiple promises to return the Tibetan people to their homeland. A scapegoat was needed and they made one out of an ancient Buddhist practice, pinning the loss of Tibet and the failure of the Tibetan cause on Dorje Shugden. In his autobiography, Zasep Rinpoche is of the same opinion, stating that “…the [Dorje Shugden] controversy was orchestrated by the Tibetan Central Administration…”

The Tibetan leadership effectively sanctioned witch-hunts on Dorje Shugden practitioners and persecuted them using government instruments, declaring that simply by being a Shugden worshipper, one was effectively an enemy of the Tibetan nation.

As a result of the hatred against Dorje Shugden practitioners instigated by the Tibetan leadership, virtually all Shugden Buddhists had to fear for their lives, or at least for their safety.

 


 

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Dorje Shugden’s beneficial practice has continued to thrive due to the courage and commitment of high lamas such as Zasep Tulku Rinpoche.

 


 

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For centuries, Dorje Shugden has been practiced alongside the highest practices of the Gelug and Sakya lineages. Zasep Tulku Rinpoche’s list of transmission is an indication that the highest scholars viewed the Protector as an enlightened being compatible with their yidam practices.

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  1. Yes the Nechung Oracle is corrupt. Also the other two state Oracles have be silenced. The Gadong Oracle (2nd highest) never spoke in trance from 1986 until his death in 2015. The Lamo Tsangpa Oracle (3rd highest) died in 2003 and none of his sons have be chosen by the Tsangpa as a worthy vessel. The eldest son actual works as the Dalai Lama’s personal photographer. The former 4th State Oracle was the Tengyeling Tsiu Marpo Oracle. This Oracle lineage was destroyed as was Tengyeling Monastery by the 13th Dalai Lama.
    I wonder what has silenced the Gadong and the Lamo Tsangpa Oracles? I wonder what they would have said in trance about the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden?
    Could they have been silenced by dark black magic from the Dalai Lama?
    The only oracle that speaks today is the Dalai Lama’s puppet oracle the Nechung.

  2. As they say, the proof (or not) is in the pudding! Thank you for the eye opening article Dorje Shugden . com

  3. This clearly shows that the state oracle does not have pure samaya to allow the intended deity to enter him. As claimed, the being entering the state oracle is not Nechung himself so how can one trust the oracle, who doesn’t even have the purity to control what can enter him or not. If that is the case then it is very dangerous for Tibetan and its administration to rely on his prophecies, as the oracle is not trained, and untrustworthy.

    If it is Nechung entering the oracle, it shows that he is not enlightened because his prophecies are inaccurate and shows that he does not have the ability to advice or predict anything using limitless clairvoyance like an enlightened protector is able to such as Dorje Shugden.

  4. For a Buddhist nation who claims to be Buddhist they sure are a lot of bunch of crazy superstitious folks and what government would rely on a spirit to help make national decisions? That is probably why they lost Tibet in the first place. So why talk about Dorje Shugden practice being a “spirit” worship when they themselves are doing it themselves? This just tells us that the whole reasons we’re told about Dorje Shugden being a spirit worship and bla bla is all just another CTA scam to get so they can continue suppressing their own people which is really horrible and disgusting.

    Also if the high lamas are highly attained will they not know if it was a bad spirit that takes trance and pretends he is Nechung and hence gives all the harmful wrong answers to the Dalai Lama? If Dalai Lama is an attained being, how come he can’t see through that? Unless Nechung is purposely giving wrong answers to look bad himself so that he can also push Dorje Shugden controversy issue more, hence working hand in hand with the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden to spread the lineage? He is after all the one who requested for Dorje Shugden to appear.

    Well that’s just my crazy thoughts… maybe it is, maybe it is not. But one thing is for sure, I think it’s high time the ban is lifted and the suffering and pain and disunity amongst Tibetans stop because this is what causing Tibetan culture to be destroyed… the disunity and segregation due to the illogical, unethical religious ban… never ever in the history of Buddhism has such discrimination appear amongst Buddhist until now.

    What global disgrace to the entire Tibetan Buddhist society and administration and to Tibetans. The world is probably just laughing at everything that’s happening with this Tibetan exile admin, especially China as this all gives them even a better rap that confirms Tibetans are really barbaric, uneducated and totally incapable of even handling themselves, let alone their own country and in fact they inflict pain and tear each other a part. Who would want Tibet to be returned to the Tibetan exile administration seeing all this, how unethical, disorganised, hypocritical they are? What a huge joke, might as well close down the admin already. Don’t need China or anyone to create any havoc, they are doing a great job themselves really. What nation or govt relies on spirit to call the shots for major decision and fail so many times yet still continues… and it was not Dorje Shugden. Wish they will wake up and smell the coffee soon before it is way way too late when Dalai Lama goes into clear light, sorry to say, everything will just crumble if they carry on this way. Seriously stop the segregation, discrimination and this ridiculous ban on your people already.

  5. I am quite shock on this article despite having known that Nechung have been Tibet’s government state oracle for long time. Nevertheless, Nechung position as oracle has long been dismiss by the Dalai Lama, and, CTA still consult Nechung for further advise. Whereas the emanation of own Lineage Guru is being cast out by them. What an insult.
    Upon reading this article, the more i know, the more i think the ban on Dorje Shugden is a politic plot. Not so much on really concern on the welfare on Tibetan.
    This ban is totally misleading to create disharmony among Buddhist.
    Chaos..

  6. Its a wonder that His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama who is said to be the same mindstream as Chenrenzig, still utilizes Nechung Oracle for state affairs when there are so much history of wrong predictions from as far back as the 5th Dalai Lama. Nechung had been demoted by the 5th Dalai Lama and yet why is the 14th Dalai Lama relying so heavily on him?
    It was Nechung who came to Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen and asked for his promise to protect Lama Tsongkapa’s perfect teaching of Nagarjuna’s Middle View. So it does not make sense for real Nechung to sabotage Dorje Shudgen as a rightful Protector.
    Why have not His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama and his government investigated into the true nature of current Nechung and his oracle? All Nechung had predicted seem to be towards bringing down Tibetan Buddhism and creating so much suffering. Should be interesting!

  7. It has been predicted that Nechung will retire soon as protector of the Dharma in general and Dorje Shugden will arise as the Protector of Lama Tsongkhapa’s tradition. So it is possible that all the events that have taken place were to pave the way for the replacement of Nechung who has served His Holiness well. May the ban be removed very soon and Dorje Shugden be given his rightful place as the Peace Protector of our times.

  8. From Dorje Shudgen’s track record there are no instances of having Dorje Shudgen dismissed or instances of wrong advice.

    For Nechung to always make mistakes in his predictions is a major cause for concern, it could be many things from a sign that he is paving the way for Dorje Shugden to the fact that perhaps it is not Nechung that is entering the oracle.

    As Nechung has come a long way serving His Holiness the Dalai Lama, so he has collected vast amounts of merits that propels him ever closer to enlightenment.

  9. Despite, all the services Dorje Shugden have rendered to so many Tibetans in the past, still many Tibetan choose to ignore the wealth of evidence that Dorje Shugden is a Wisdom Buddha, and Nechung was clearly a spirit king, that was subdued by Guru Rinpoche.

  10. This is a mighty informative page here: https://www.facebook.com/weneedtotalkaboutshugdentoday/

  11. Dear DS.com

    Thank you for the article. There are many interesting information in this article. One is the spirit possessing Nechung oracle may not be Nechung himself. I believe there are many indications and signs to check whether the spirit possessing the oracle is Nechung or not. Why nobody realize this? Dalai Lama as the emanation of Chenrezig would definitely be able to identify whether it is Nechung or not who possess the Oracle.

    Nechung predictions have been are incorrect many times. In human world, once you lie or provide incorrect information, their credibility will go down the drain immediately. It is amazing that after many years of inaccurate prediction, CTA still take Nechung’s prediction seriously. If Nechung can be wrong about many things, then he definitely can be wrong about proclaiming that Dorje Shugden is a demon.

    I do think that CTA should stop taking the advice of Nechung Oracle as the absolute truth.

    Michaela

  12. There are a lot of proponents of the ban who label Dorje Shugden practitioners as against the Dharampala Pehar, but this cannot be further from truth. In fact it was Pehar himself who played a pivotal role for Dorje Shugden to arise. Therefore those who practice Dorje Shugden are not against Pehar at all. The question of the oracle however is different. I have heard from my own guru and seniors within the lineage that the Nechung Oracle is not taking trance of Dorje Drakden but in fact a malicious spirit as the article mentions.

    It just doesn’t make sense that such a powerful being as Pehar, whom I have personally heard some Dorje Shugden gurus say is a very high level bodhisattva through his years of practice as oath-bound by his own guru Padmasambhava, would influence both His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Administration to cause such schism within the Tibetan community. This just goes to show that what is entering the Nechung may not be as beneficial as people think.

    On that note however, shouldn’t the religious sphere be kept away from politics? Isn’t this the best for a civilised and truly democratic society? I accept that individuals may be inspired in their work by their spiritual practice, and this is something I applaud. But the extent to which Tibetan politics is ingrained with religious dogma should be removed. I wonder why the deities are not ‘acting’ as they should be, could it be that we are throwing all our problems onto them, without using our own intellectual and compassionate ability to solve current issues, as the Buddhas obviously teach us to do?

  13. For an Oracle to be reliable, it is known that he/her should be a genuine dharma practitioner, one who keep vows and have good Samaya with the Guru. There are practices and retreats to be done, a series of examinations to be passed before one become a qualified Oracle. These trainings are not necessary for an ordinary person to take trance of a spirit.

    Ordinary people cannot tell whether whatever entering the Oracle is the deity they have to invoke upon, but the Guru, who trained the Oracle and other highly attained Gurus can.

    The question now is whether the Dalai Lama an emanation of Avalokitesvara, a highly accomplished being we believe he is? If he is, he can identify whether the Oracle is taking trance of Pehar or Dorje Drakden. Hence to accept the Oracle’s advice or not. It is a standard practice also that a trained monk or a person proficient with the deity language will be present to make sense of the instruction or advice given. Perhaps this person the CTA currently and previously employed was not proficient in that language. But then again, this person’s translation shouldn’t be the only source for the Kashag to rely on especially when the translation matters to the nation. Surely, the Dalai Lama and all highly attained Gurus can assist in this.

    If the Oracle has good Samaya with his Guru, keep his refuge and other vows intact, no spirit should be able to enter into him. If it happens, the first possibility will be what mentioned earlier; the other possibility would be the Tibetan, specifically the Kashag, has broken their Samaya with the Dalai Lama, hence, whatever advice given by the Oracle will not be accurate.

    It is always a two or more ways street when it comes to Oracle’s advice. The failing of Nechung Oracle to give correct instruction can be due to the Oracle or the people he is meant to serve not to forget the capability of the deity also.

  14. I don’t understand these Tibetan leaders. How can they use a spirit to help them make their national state decision and if this Nechung spirit is so great.. then why not allow Dorje Shugden practice?

    Why do they allow themselves to believe one spirit yet ban the other? On top of that if Nechung is so good, then why did Nechung advice how to save Tibet from landing in the hands of the Chinese? Obviously from that incident, huge mistake, we can conclude that Nechung is highly unreliable. So why bother or continue praying or requesting answers from a spirit who could not save your country and as I have read, has made several more mistakes regarding His Holiness’s return to Tibet. So what is taking trance of the oracle is also in question here!

    So much drama in the Tibetan leadership and politics and as if that wasn’t enough they tell the world how that they make their big decision based on the advice of a subdued evil spirit! How hypocritical of them to do this on one hand and on the other kick up a fuss and ban Dorje Shugden practice?

    In today’s democratic government we talk, discuss and vote, we do not engage in oracles to tell us the future… and if it is accurate is fine, but it is not. It’s not because look at where they are at today. Stop making Dorje Shugden an issue, please clean up your own house first. Very shameful.

  15. Nechung or Pehar may be one of the ancient protectors but somehow he is unenlightened and therefore the eight worldly dharmas are still in him. As for the Nechung oracle, over the years I have heard a lot of things about him, I am in no place to judge because I don’t know him and have not met him, but those things I have heard about him is not really on his side.

    Nechung oracle’s unreliability was quite famed as his advice almost got His Holiness the Dalai Lama killed when His Holiness was deciding whether or not to leave Tibet in 1959. Nechung’s advice to His Holiness was to stay but Dorje Shugden asked His Holiness to leave and guarded His Holiness along the way, ensured His safe arrival in India. In other words, Dorje Shugden saved His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s life. This shows how unreliable Nechung is, it could be the karma of the region but again, Nechung is unenlightened.

  16. There are so many rumors about Nechung being inaccurate and many are saying the oracle is not really taking trance of the real deity and that it is really a spirit. This is sad and it seems to be compounded karma of Tibetans and so forth that the Nechung oracle has become like this. However, it is rare that the Dorje Shugden oracles provide with inaccurate information and prophesies. They are always accurate especially if the samaya of the oracle to the lama is intact. Incredible!

  17. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche said very clearly that Pehar/Nechung is in fact an enlightened being and as Ashok Rao said above, Nechung in fact played a crucial role in the rising of Gyalchen Dorje Shugden.

    Why then, would Nechung manifest errors and even recent ones such as claiming that the Tibetan people would regain their homeland (not long after the 1959 exodus) and that Dorje Shugden must be opposed? Here are some explanations:

    1. Nechung pre-empts the rise of Dorje Shugden and assist in the rise by purposely manifesting grievous errors so that people will stop relying on him and turn to Dorje Shugden. As Nebesky_Wojkowitz wrote in Demons and Oracles, according to old scriptures Dorje Shugden is to succeed Pehar as the next Chief Dharma Protector of the Tibetan people. Hence Nechung manifests all these mistakes;

    2. Nechung has in fact become enlightened and the being taking trance of the Nechung oracle is something other than Nechung. Hence the fatal errors and wrong advices. This undesirable situation reflects the collective the karma of the Tibetan leadership which have committed so much wrong and evil deeds. What is disturbing is how the CTA continues to take crucial advice from the oracle that is taking trance of an unknown being.

    The public should demand from the CTA why they continue to depend on this present “Nechung” who has become dangerously unreliable.

  18. I have always wondered how come the Dalai Lama and his administration would place so much faith in Nechung, an unenlightened Dharma protector. You may say that they did not take refuge in him. However, actions speak louder than words. If The Dalai Lama and CTA can put the fate of the Tibetan public in the hands of Nechung by always seeking his advise for important state matters, they take refuge in Nechung. Would this not mean they have broken their vows too?

    Their immovable faith towards Nechung despite all his mistakes is also another expression of taking refuge in this worldly being.

    The mistake of Nechung has the the life of the 13th Dalai Lama and also jeopardised the life of Ling Rinpoche. In fact, nechung who advised the 14th dalai lama to remain in Tibet could have caused the life of the dalai lama. Yet, CTA still endorse his advise. On top of that, remove Trijang Rinpoche from the lineage master records. If not for Trijang Rinpoche’s wisdom to seeks and “second opinion ” from Dorje Shugden, the Dalai Lama would not have left Tibet with a clear and safe passage as he carried the thanka of Dorje Shugden on his back for protection.

    It is really annoying to witness the continued idiocy of the Tibetan leadership.

  19. All this story is know to us. This spirit god is the fake . He has kill 13th Dalai Lama by giving wrong medicine . He given prophecy to Tibet people we will be back in Tibet in 5 year. He is telling to Kundun which way to go but it’s wrong?? ALL LIES FROM THE SPIRIT PEHAR N HIS MASTERS IN DHASA !! Do not believe to this spirit n depend for our rangzen. Our country should be democracy not spirit worship n dictator like Mao.

  20. Nechung being wrong and erroneous is one thing, why can’t the so-called “high lamas” like Dalai Lama use their “power and clairvoyance” to see decide whether Nechung’s prophecies and advice are right or wrong? Unless they are not really attained themselves to have that ability? Think seriously.

  21. So much proof that Nechung can not be relied on and that his advice is harmful to say the least. The 13. Dalai Lama even lost his life because of Nechung. The escape of the 14. Dalai Lama would not have happened according to Nechung and many more examples are known.

    It is difficult to inderstand why the Dalai Lama still listens still to his advice. On the other hand, Dorje Shugden who saved the Dalai Lama from Tibet is banned. This is difficult to understand as H.H. the Dalai Lama is enlightened and the emanation of Avaloketeshvara.

  22. Why on earth does the Dalai Lama and teh CTA rely on Nechung when he has made so many mistake and even ‘killed’ the Dalai Lama before by prescribing the wrong medicine? How come Nechung can get away with all this and can also get away from predicting wrongly that Tibet would gain independence from China? These are not small mistakes, these are huge mistakes that cost hundreds of thousands of people’s hopes crushed. Yet the Dalai Lama does not say or do anything but instead still consults him for national state advices? This I find totally strange and hypocritical of the Dalai Lama and CTA. Why go around talking about Dorje Shugden being a spirit and because of this we should not worship?

    To say that Dorje Shugden is sectarian is really nonsense because if you say that, then you might as well ban all the other different schools’ main specific dharma protector. Goes to show whatever excuses and reasons given by His Holiness and the CTA about Dorje Shugden is totally false and made up to cover their own failure of not fulfilling their promise to their people.

  23. Since Tibet was on its way to becoming a modern country, the business of gods and spirits possessing human mediums could not be permitted anymore. However, the two state oracles were, however, exempt from the decree.

    Stories of fake oracles and rigged prophecies are not unusual in Tibetan folklore. One of the popular folk heroes of Central Tibet is Lama Methon Phangbo, a merry con-man who delights in hoodwinking the pious and gullible.

    We as better educated Tibetans should be able to be critical about Tibetan beliefs, and whether or not they apply to this day and age. After so many years in exile living in foreign countries, perhaps some modern ideas may have taken root to check the authenticity of the oracle and medium. But alas, only the High Lamas are able to do so. Well, one thing’s for sure, a medium/ god who is unreliable is good as fake!

  24. I understand that one of the fundamental practice of Dharma is equanimity. However, the treatment of Nechung who was known to have caused the death of the 13th Dalai Lama reveals the lack of equanimity in the Dalai Lama and his government. If the Dalai Lama is able to forgive Nechung for his mistake, why single out Dorje Shugden and come down so so so so hard on him and his practitioners?

    This is not yet considering the fact the Nechung could have also caused the premature death of the 14th Dalai Lama because he advised for the Dalai Lama to remain in Tibet despite approaching threat from Chinese military advancement.

    Not only is Nechung not reprimanded, banned or “advised” against, Nechung is the main advisor to the Dalai Lama and his leadership through the state oracle.

    Why is this? There is no logic. and sadly, neither the Dalai Lama nor his leadership is taking time to explain or clear doubts. is this because they are not able to? As practitioners worldwide and becoming more knowledgeable and information is abundant and accessible, more are questioning the Tibetan leadership as we can see with recent events (rampant social media promotion of the video where Tseringma and Nechung oracles reprimanded Penpa Tsering and Sikyong Lobsang Sangya. Additionally, international leaders are also calling the CTA to be accountable for their actions on the recent strong suspicion of corruption in the sikyong candidacy election as well as fund mismanagement by Dana Rohrabacher and Maura Moynihan.

    The CTA is losing ground should it continue with its old way. This is the time for change. May democracy truly find its way into the CTA.

  25. The CTA is not capable of planting the seed of and implementing real democracy where freedom of speech, differences in opinion, and constructive feedback can be accepted. Tenpa Yarphel is being called a Chinese dog just because he said Nechung’s prophecy is inaccurate.

    68440f81-6a89-4ff2-8837-ddf53e56d0ba

  26. I find it terribly strange that CTA who claims to be a democratic government chooses to rely on Nechung whose prophecies have been inaccurate many times. One prophecy even cost the life of 13th Dalai Lama. Even after this one fatal mistake and other subsequent mistakes, CTA still relies on Nechung. I guess it is easier to blame their failures on Nechung’s inaccurate prophecies than CTA’s incompetent administration.

    Demonising Dorje Shugden is also another of CTA’s ploy to take the attention away from their failed attempts at democracy and regaining Tibet. But thankfully, more are beginning to see CTA’s strategy. If CTA is smart, they should clean up their act, do actual work to regain their country and not waste their resources trying to deceive the world with so many lame tactics like trying to link all Shugden practitioners to China or saying that Dorje Shugden is a spirit and can shorten Dalai Lama’s life. Come on, can the emanation of Chenrezig’s life be shortened by a spirit?

  27. What will the all the people around the world and in Tibet do now? Dalai Lama says he is happy that Tibet is a part of China and should remain a part of China. So many Tibetans self-immolated for Tibet to be independent and now Dalai Lama did a 360 degree turn and says he wants to go back to Tibet and China and Tibet should be a part of China. So unbelievable. So many are angry and disappointed.

    Tibetans ready to be part of China: Dalai Lama
    Organised by the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA), the event was a part of “Thank You India – 2018″ held by the Tibetan community across India to mark 60 years of its exile in the country.
    Indo-Asian News Service
    Bengaluru
    Tibetans are ready to be a part of China if guaranteed full rights to preserve their culture, the Dalai Lama said on Friday.
    “Tibetans are not asking for independence. We are okay with remaining with the People’s Republic of China, provided we have full rights to preserve our culture,” the 83-year-old spiritual leader said at “Thank You Karnataka” event here in the city.
    Organised by the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA), the event was a part of “Thank You India – 2018″ held by the Tibetan community across India to mark 60 years of its exile in the country.
    “Several of Chinese citizens practicing Buddhism are keen on Tibetan Buddhism as it is considered scientific,” the Nobel laureate said.
    Born in Taktser hamlet in northeastern Tibet, the Dalai Lama was recognized at the age of two as the reincarnation of the 13th Dalai Lama, Thubten Gyatso. He fled to India from Tibet after a failed uprising against the Chinese rule in 1959.
    China annexed Tibet in 1950, forcing thousands of Tibetans, including monks, to flee the mountain country and settle in India as refugees.
    Since then, India has been home to over 100,000 Tibetans majorly settled in Karnataka, Himachal Pradesh among other states.
    https://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/india/tibetans-ready-to-be-part-of-china-dalai-lama/293109.html

    d

  28. Dear Dalai Lama,

    Since you started the cruel ban against the 350 year Dorje Shugden practice, how has it benefit your Tibetan society and Buddhism in the world? Things have become worse and most educated Tibetans can see this. They don’t speak out not because they don’t see your ban as wrong, but you instill fear in them and not respect. It is like fear of a dictator. I am sorry to say so. Everyone is divided. There is no harmony. Before your ban there was more harmony and unity.

    By enacting the ban, you split the monasteries, split so many families, split regions in Tibet apart, split your disciples from you, split your own gurus from you, split Tibetan Buddhism apart. You have created so much disharmony.

    It is not democratic what you have done to ban a religion within your community. You always talk of tolerance and acceptance and democracy and yet you do not accept and tolerate something different from your beliefs. When people practice Dorje Shugden you ostracize them, ban them from seeing you, ban them from using Tibetan facilities. You know you have done that. There are videos that capture your speech and prove this point. You even had people expelled from monasteries just because they practice Dorje Shugden. Some of the monks you expelled have been in the monastery for over 40 years. Many older monks shed tears because of this.

    Many young educated Tibetans lost confidence in you as they saw the damage the Dorje Shugden ban created and they lose hope. Many have become free thinkers. They reject what you have done. So many people in the west left Buddhism because of the confusion you created with this ban against Dorje Shugden which is immoral.

    You could of had millions of people who practice Dorje Shugden to support, love and follow you, but you scared them away. They are hurt and very disappointed. They loved you and respected you deeply before the ban. It has been 60 years and you have failed to get Tibet back. Your biggest failure is not getting Tibet back after 57 years in exile. Now you are begging China to allow you to return to Tibet to the disappointment of thousands of people who fought for a free Tibet believing in you. So many self-immolated for a free Tibet and now you want Tibet to be a part of China with no referendum from Tibetans. Just like a dictator, you decide on your own. It was your government and you that lost Tibet in the first place. Your policies and style of doing things do not benefit Tibet and Buddhism. You have been the sole ruler of Tibet your whole life and you still have not gotten our country of Tibet back for us. Our families and us are separated. Yet you create more pain by creating a ban to further divide people. Please have compassion.

    No other Buddhist leader has banned or condemned any religion except for you. It looks very bad. You are a Nobel laureate and this is not fitting of a laureate. You should unite people and not separate them by religious differences.

    You said Ms. Aung San Suu Kyi did not do right to the Rohingya people in Myanmar due to religious differences, but you are doing the same thing to the Shugden Buddhists within your own society. There is a parallel in this. You separate the Shugden Buddhists from the others in Tibetan society.

    You have lost so many people who would have loved and supported you. You have lost so much support around the world. The Shugden Buddhists who love you number in the millions. When you are fast losing support from governments and private people, it will not do you well to lose more.

    After you are passed away in the future, the rift you created between the Dorje Shugden and non-Dorje Shugden people will remain for a while and that will be your legacy. Disharmony. You will be remembered for this. Not as a hero but a disharmony creator.

    Dorje Shugden will spread and further grow, but you will be no more as you are a human. No one wishes you bad and in fact we hope you have a long and healthy life, but we have lost so much hope and have so much despair because of you. All the hundreds of Dorje Shugden lamas, tulkus and geshes are maturing and there are hundreds of Dorje Shugden monasteries in Tibet who will not give up Dorje Shugden. You have made a mistake. These hundreds of teachers and teachers to be will spread Dorje Shugden further in the future.

    The gurus that gave us Dorje Shugden as a spiritual practice and you have called these holy gurus wrong and they are mistaken in giving us Dorje Shugden. How can you insult our gurus whom we respect so much? If they can be wrong, then you can be wrong. Then all gurus can be wrong. So no one needs to listen to any guru? You have created this trend. It is not healthy. Your own gurus practiced Dorje Shugden their whole lives. Your own gurus were exemplary and highly learned.

    Dalai Lama you have created so much pain with this ban against so many people due to religion. You are ageing fast. Are you going to do anything about it or stay stubborn, hard and un-moving. You show a smile and preach peace and harmony wherever you go. But will you do the same to your own people? Please rectify the wrong you have done. Please before it is too late. You can create harmony again or you can pass away in the future with this legacy of peace. May you live long and think carefully and admit what was a mistake in having this unethical ban against Dorje Shugden religion.

  29. Time and time again Nechung is proven inaccurate and unrealiable. Why is HH Dalai Lama still relying on Nechung? HH can’t deny the fact that Dorje Shugden is the one who saved HH by giving accurate and specific direction to flee Tibet to India.

  30. Is very weird to learn that after so many wrong prophecies the Tibetans still chose to listen to nechung.When will cta learn that they cant just depend on oracle don’t they have a mind of their own to make decision.Whether it is nechung or some angry spirit I don’t it’s important.More important is the admin that can help their ppl & not give probs.If DL can say Dorje Shugden is ‘demon’ he cant tell if nechung is fake.The prob is that nechung make many big mistakes & not enlightened why depend on him?The article is right nechung is not reliable at all.

  31. I find it perplexing that the Dalai Lamas, who are considered to be Chenresig, were deceived by Nechung.

    (“The Fifth Dalai Lama commissioned Nyingma lamas to perform powerful fire pujas to eradicate the ‘spirit’, Dorje Shugden. However, the pujas were ineffective as Dorje Shugden was of the same indestructible nature as Yamantaka. The Dalai Lama realized this and composed a praise to Dorje Shugden, built the shrine Trode Khangsar and crafted statues according to the vision he had of Dorje Shugden.”)

    The Great Fifth was well known for his wisdom and tantric powers and would know if Dorje Shugden was a spirit or not. But he only realised that Dorje Shugden was indeed an emanation of Yamantaka after the fire pujas proved to be ineffective. Did he not know before he had the fire pujas done? Strange.

    (“However, due to the Dorje Shugden controversy, Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have been omitted from the list of lineage masters. This is a travesty of tradition and lineage – these two great masters are major lineage holders of the Gelugpa tradition and omitting them would mean that the lineage is broken.”)

    That would mean that there would be no blessings of the great masters of the past.

    (“Generally, many high lamas still have high regard for the Dharma Protector Nechung, and some believe that the being entering the Nechung oracle’s body is not necessarily Nechung himself. In fact, some say that a powerful malignant spirit of someone who had been murdered by the CTA has been entering the state oracle, and intentionally making incorrect pronouncements – karma coming back for the Tibetan leadership. Whatever it is, there is a general belief that the trance of the Nechung oracle is not and has not been pure. In all likelihood, Nechung’s pronouncement against Dorje Shugden is yet another fake prophecy designed to create more harm in Tibetan society. Very plausible considering that all the Dorje Shugden ban has achieved is to create suffering, misery and heartache for all involved.”)

    Why does the Dalai Lama allow this? Surely the Dalai Lama with his wisdom and clairvoyance would be able to see through the charade.

    I wonder with so many negative incidences caused by Nechung, why did the Dalai Lamas, up to the 14th, still rely on him.

  32. Why do the Tibetans still rely on Nechung since he had continuously giving wrong predictions? Obviously, he was a spirit, a non enlightened being that been subdued by Guru Rinpoche and sworn to protect growth of Dharma. It’s pitiful and sad to see high lamas still relied more on a spirit prediction rather than a fully enlightened being Dharma Protector like Dorje Shugden. ☹️

  33. Tibetan still rely on Nechung not because they still believe in him but more in His Holiness the Dalai Lama himself still rely on him as he has no one else to rely as he had ban Dorje Dhugden who he used to reply on. The protector is to assist the Lamas, is not for the Lama to rely on the protector 100%. What i mean is the attained Lama with superpower should know if the protector is for real. In this case I have nothing to say.

  34. It’s not making any sense for the H.H Dalai Lama & CTA to continue to consult & regard Nechung after a long history & experiences that have clear indication of his incompetent of providing advises. What are all these about?

  35. This are one of the main cause Tibet in exile fall apart and tibetan leadership stiĺl relian on Nechung advice. The countless of mistake Nechung had made even directly causing 13 Dalai Lama died.Hïstory has record the truth.

    In other hand 14 Dalai Lama stiĺl beliave on Nechung advice? If Dalai Lama can make such mistake. How about putting ban on Dorje Shugden.It may the bigger mistake over 20 years.

  36. Nechung had failed so many times by giving inaccurate advice to the Tibetan leaderships. Funny things is that after so many times why the Tibetan leadership still rely on Nechung.

    Looking at the effect of how Nechung given wrong prophecy and causes much trouble for the Tibetan but why Nechung can get away with in? Why Dorje Shugden has done nothing against the Tibetans leadership but being prosecute and discriminate? I believe Dalai Lama is Chenrezig but why can’t he tell whether Nechung is reliable.

  37. Tibetan leadership is democratically elected but they rely heavily on an undemocratically-appointed Oracle. Undemocratically ban Dorje Shugden practice. After so many times of giving wrong advice, Tibetan leadership still believe Nechung. Many people will question what is the motivation here because it takes 2 hands to clap. I can’t believe that even after Nechung prescribed the wrong medication to the 13th Dalai Lama which hastened the 13th Dalai Lama passing, Tibetan still keep on trusting him, what logic is this ?

  38. It is really hard to believe that the Tibetan leadership relies on an oracle in the first place but then if i learn that so many things that have been foreseen by Nechung did not manifest at all. On the contrary, they went wrong, and Tibet and the Tibetans became the big losers, why do they still listen to Nechung?

    This is a big disappointment and in fact, Nechung should not be listened to anymore!

  39. I find it amazing that after so many wrong predictions, Nechung is still revered as the state oracle of the Tibetans in exile.

    Why is it so, it is therefore my opinion that the Tibetan authorities under the guidance of the Dalai Lama is completely clueless or blinded by poor judgement and misplaced faith.

    As Nechung (Pehar) was subjugated by Guru Rinpoche to be a protector of the Dharma, it is also possible with the theory that the Nechung oracle is not in trance with Nechung but rather another spirit.

    With that experience, it should occur to the CTA and Dalai Lama, that all the fuss and accusation against Dorje Shugden should stop especially after the prediction of Dorje Shugden saved the Dalai Lama’s life in instructing the DL to leave Tibet when the Chinese attacked and took control.

    Puzzling for the ban of Dorje Shugden to be in place and also puzzling that the Tibetans do not see the wrong predictions by Nechung.

  40. The CTA cannot lie anymore, they are just ineffective. After 60 years, the blind can also see the CTA is not capable and they always make empty promises. The CTA doesn’t want to take the responsibility that is why they always ask Nechung for advice. After asking for advice, they just sit there and not doing anything.

    The CTA is not going to succeed because Nechung always gives the wrong prophecy and the CTA is too busy begging for free money. Well, the main reason the CTA is not working hard for the Tibet cause is that they want to continue to get free money from the west using the cause. Life has been too easy for the CTA, they will not want to change anything.

    More Tibetans have realised how deceiving and hypocritical the CTA is, some of them speak up, some of them choose to leave the Tibetan community. The number of Tibetans in India has reduced a lot, a statistic that the CTA is very reluctant to release. Tibetans arriving in India from Tibet is close to zero by now. This is a very clear indication the CTA is losing support from its own people. It is probably time for the CTA to say goodbye!

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.…Instead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the ‘wrong’ practice. Actually Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong. But hypothetically, if they are, wouldn’t it be more Buddhistic to be accepting? So those who have views against Dorje Shugden should contemplate this. Those practicing Dorje Shugden should forbear with extreme patience, fortitude and keep your commitments. The time will come as predicted that Dorje Shugden’s practice and it’s terrific quick benefits will be embraced by the world and it will be a practice of many beings.

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