Author Topic: Denma Locho Rinpoche and Jamseng Rinpoche of Kadhampa Buddhist Association  (Read 39629 times)

LosangKhyentse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • WORLD PEACE PROTECTOR DORJE SHUGDEN


Decades ago Gaden Jangtse Serkong Tritul Rinpoche who resides in Taiwan recognized a Jamseng Rinpoche (Taiwanese) and had him enthroned from Gaden Jangtse Monastery. Since then, Jamseng Rinpoche has been doing quite alot of work, travelling, meeting dignitaries, teaching, opening centres, etc.

Since then Jamseng Rinpoche did not go to Gaden Jangtse to swear against Dorje Shugden as he opted out and joined Shar Gaden Monastery. Shar Gaden is being partially supported by both Serkong Tritul Rinpoche and Jamseng Rinpoche financially.

Serkong Tritul invited Drepung Loseling Monastery's Denma Locho Rinpoche to Taiwan to turn the wheel of dharma and pass some important lineages. Here is a picture of Denma Locho Rinpoche holding affectionately Jamseng Rinpoche's hand.





harrynephew

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
  • Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!
    • Email
I was just thinking, with the current situation in the monasteries, I don't think HE Denma Locho Rinpoche is having a conducive environment to practice and teach the Dharma, won't it be beneficial if Denma Locho Rinpoche can benefit more people with the outreach the Kadhampa Buddhists Association people are having now?

(I'm sorry the picture of Locho Rinpoche being set aside during grand teachings still disturbs me. Does anyone know of Rinpoche's current condition now?)
Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
I just noticed that Denma Locho Rinpoche and Jamseng Rinpoche are reported in another article: Desecrating the Dharma???? Another 'interesting' article from Singapore!! http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=554.0 which reported that Jamseng Rinpoche conned Denma Locho Rinpoche to take photos with him. Is the article below true?

PROVEN Dishonesty
 
Most Venerable Denma Locho Rinpoche, one of Tibet's most respected hierarchs, received an apparently innocent request for a short audience. Having received easily a few thousand requests for audiences a year, Locho Rinpoche's secretary acceded to what appears to be yet another devoted audience for blessings, naming of new-borns or scriptural clarifications.
 
What ensued spurned completely out of imagined sacrileged. The self-proclaimed incarnation of Guan Yin or Chenrezig ( the main organiser of this brazen circus with his oh-so recognizable little stub of goattee ) popped deftly into Locho Rinpoche's room, flashed one sample of his claimed "relics" across Rinpoche's eyes, lashed out his limb to grab Rinpoche's blessed palms and gruffly commanded his attendants to snap pictures upon pictures from every angle !! The subsequent nightmare was flooded into the literally millions of booklets and posters: Denma Locho Rinpoche recognized these thousands of coloured balls as Lord Buddha's saliva, blood and brain relics; applauded his relic world-tour and in short, approved and loved him as the recognized incarnation of holy Chenrezig !!
 
When the matter bombed-shelled, Locho Rinpoche's office issued an open clarification to His literally hundreds of thousands of disciples, both lay and monastic, and also to His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Private Office, that He has NOT endorsed anyone as Chenrezig incarnate nor affirmed any archaelogically unproven pellets as the venerated relics of Lord Buddha, the Enlightened One.
 
Despite every attempt to get this party to stop making misleading claims in relation to Locho Rinpoche ( they have been duly informed !! ), this time round, they continued with their dirty deception by re-publishing pictures of Rinpoche and the goattee man, lying about how Locho was head over heels with their enlightened activities and how lovely Locho Rinpoche considered his absurd pellets to be !!
 
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Lee Dhi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55

Hi Harrynephew, I agree with you on the non-conducive environment in which Denma Locho Rinpoche has to operate from. Taking this point of view one scope bigger, this challenge is not only encountered by Denma Locho Rinpoche but also other members of the Sangha community.

If one has to be cautious about who he interacts with because he is susceptible to criticism, judgment and eventual expulsion from the Shangha community, one cannot practice, teach or represent the Dharma completely well.

Furthermore, this situation contradicts the essence of the 3 Jewels whereby the Buddha, Dharma and Shangha is established to benefit all sentient beings. Here, Rinpoches, monks, nuns and lay practitioners are instructed to ostracize Dorje Shugden practitioners. How will this benefit ALL sentient beings when it already causes harm to so many individuals?

To return the focus on Dharma learning, practice and teaching is vital for the growth of Dharma in the future. The Sangha is the jewel that is essential in upholding and keeping complete the Dharma teachings. Therefore, for the benefit of all sentient beings, it is important to provide a safe environment for the Sangha. The opening of Shar Ganden Monastery is one of the first steps to do so. Next is the maintenance and success of Shar Ganden so that it sets an encouraging example for more and more such monasteries will be set up.

wang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
I just noticed that Denma Locho Rinpoche and Jamseng Rinpoche are reported in another article: Desecrating the Dharma???? Another 'interesting' article from Singapore!! http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=554.0 which reported that Jamseng Rinpoche conned Denma Locho Rinpoche to take photos with him. Is the article below true?

.....
 


Some of this organization's web site for your information:

http://220.130.222.208:84/kadhampa/text003.htm

http://www.nzkadhampa.org/main/news.html


Besides Jamseng Rinpoche(he is called Drom-Tug Rinpoche now), there are other 14 Rinpoche assigned by Tritual total of 15 in this Kadhampa organization.  They have a very logical naming convention:
- Under Atisha there were 9 major disciple (X)
- Each disciple has body, speech, mind, merit, business (Y)

Say, Jamseng Rinpoche's new name is Drom-Tug Rinpoche, Drom stands for Dromtonpa, Tug stands for mind.  So he is now said to be the 18th re-incarnation of Dromtonpa's mind, instead of Guanyin.

As a whole they have room for up to 9X5=45 rinpoches, now 15 filled up(btw, except for one as 16th and one as 17th, other X-Y Rinpoche are in their 18th already, as said in the site.)


Some photos about '18th ga-gu rinpoche' and their activities in the NZ center downloaded from their site:

PS: Ga stands for Gawa, Gu stands for body, so Ga-Gu Riinpoche is the 18th re-incarnation of Gawa's body.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:08:44 AM by wang »

LosangKhyentse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • WORLD PEACE PROTECTOR DORJE SHUGDEN


Jamseng Rinpoche and their organization grows very fast and has so many supporters. It is incredible to see all the activities they do. They are building a huge temple in Nepal, Taiwan and finished building in Tibet. They also financially support Shar Gaden Monastery. That is so helpful, because we have to support financially Shar Gaden. If we don't do, who will?? If we cannot do as much as them, at least we can feel happy they are doing that.

I hope they can continue their activities and support Shar Gaden without a break.

tk

thor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1431
So this picture of Denma Locho Rinpoche and Jamsing Rinpoche is what got Locho Rinpoche into so much trouble with Loseling.

Tritul Rinpoche, Jamsing Rinpoche are financially supporting Shar Gaden, keeping it going. Tritul Rinpoche even sent his monks from Nepal to Shar Gaden to build up the numbers there.

Tritul Rinpoche and Jamsing Rinpoche also offered a large sum of money to Locho Rinpoche after Locho Rinpoche gave some teachings in Taiwan. Locho Rinpoche then donated a large portion of this money to Drepung Loseling.

The money that Locho Rinpoche donated to Loseling was still used for the expansion of the monastery and never returned. But they ostracise this great master citing that he has associated with Shugden practitioners and taken their money but they still keep the money!! Why doesnt Loseling returned the so-called 'dirty money'? Then they would really have a basis to talk instead of appearing hypocritical.


LosangKhyentse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • WORLD PEACE PROTECTOR DORJE SHUGDEN
Dear Duldzin,

You are absolutely correct. Tritul Rinpoche and Jamseng sent many young monks from nepal to Shar Gaden to be educated to be the teachers of the future. They send monks there for education and finances to help Shar Gaden. Fantastic!

Tritul Rinpoche and Jamseng, quietly very much supports the Dorje Shugden practice and monasteries. I have contacts who told me directly.

tk

dsnowlion

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
I just noticed that Denma Locho Rinpoche and Jamseng Rinpoche are reported in another article: Desecrating the Dharma???? Another 'interesting' article from Singapore!! http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=554.0 which reported that Jamseng Rinpoche conned Denma Locho Rinpoche to take photos with him. Is the article below true?

.....
 


Some of this organization's web site for your information:

http://220.130.222.208:84/kadhampa/text003.htm

http://www.nzkadhampa.org/main/news.html


Besides Jamseng Rinpoche(he is called Zong-Tu Rinpoche now), there are other 14 Rinpoche assigned by Tritual total of 15 in this Kadhampa organization.  They have a very logical naming convention:
- Under Atisha there were 9 major disciple (X)
- Each disciple has body, speech, mind, merit, business (Y)

So they have room for up to 9X5=45 rinpoches, now 15 filled up(btw, except for one as 16th and one as 17th, other X-Y Rinpoche are in their 18th already, as said in the site.)


Some photos about '18th ga-gu rinpoche' and their activities in the NZ center downloaded from their site:



Despite all the accusations on Dorje Shugden. His practice monasteries and lineage still continues to grow everywhere. Thank you for sharing this with us wang. It just shows that Dorje Shugden is Enlightened and Real and helps those that sincerely practice and spread the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa. Rejoice! And may there be many all these Gurus live long to turn the wheel of Dharma. Dharma is Life and it is for everyone ;)

lightning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
<Quote from CAS Online>
Questionable "Relics"   
 
No Buddhists could recall any exhortation by the Buddha to fully equate happiness with worshipping Him .... much less, relics claimed to descend from Him and of truly unclear origins: historically / scripturally or otherwise !!
 
The big problem here is that there is not one single Buddhist scripture which has mentioned about the Buddha having left relics of saliva / blood or brains. There has never been any historical references, however weak, hinting about the existence of such relics. The blatant claims have confused and shocked indeed many Buddhists world-wide and has prompted not a few Buddhist umbrella organisations in many countries to distance themselves completely from the party hosting this event.
<Quote from CAS Online>
 
In regards to the source of the Buddha Relics, we found similar Buddha relics in Matreya Project. We also found out that Dalai Lama also offered Buddha Relics to the Matreya Project for their world tour. Please Kindly see the link here:http://www.maitreyaproject.org/en/relic/gallery-shakyamuni.html
       http://www.maitreyaproject.org/en/relic/gallery.html
 
Not only that, I have witnessed the Ceritficate of the Relics issued by monestary and it is officially opened by Kadhampa Buddhist Association.
 
 
<Extracted from Maitreya Project Website>
All of his life, Lama Zopa Rinpoche has been collecting sacred relics offered by Buddhist masters around the world. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has offered eight relics of Shakyamuni Buddha to the collection. Eventually the entire collection will be enshrined at the heart of the Maitreya Buddha statue being built in India.
From time to time, visitors at Relic Tour events offer to the collection, relics with which they themselves have been entrusted. Their intention is that many others may benefit.
This incredible generosity and kindness means that the collection is becoming larger and more varied, and now includes masters from many different Buddhist traditions. This reflects the Relic Tour's non-sectarian approach and universal message.
Thus, as the Tour travels around the globe, the Maitreya Project Heart Shrine Relic Tour collection is constantly evolving and growing.
 
The Benefits of Seeing the Relics
Viewing holy relics inspires us to develop our own hearts and minds, to develop loving-kindness and compassion and to understand spiritual teachings.
When the Buddha lived in India in approximately 563 BCE the people of that time had the opportunity to actually see and hear him, to be blessed by him in his human form. In approximately 483 BCE the Buddha left the Earth by passing into nirvana (the enlightened state) during the body's death. At that time he compassionately left relics so that today we still have the opportunity to receive the blessings of the Buddha, directly.
Spiritual masters throughout history have blessed the world with their relics in this way and this phenomenon is still happening today. For instance, in 2001, Geshe Lama Konchog, a revered Tibetan scholar and meditator, passed away at Kopan Monastery in Nepal. After his body was cremated those attending the funeral rites were astonished to find hundreds and hundreds of crystal-like relics among the ashes.
 
<Extracted from Maitreya Project Website>
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 07:59:07 AM by lightning »

wang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
What Khensur Rinpoche talk about is:

 'the big problem here is that there is not one single Buddhist scripture which has mentioned about the Buddha having left relics of saliva / blood or brains.'

Not saying that no relic ever exist.  So you are mixing up the two.

Rinpoche explain as below(http://www.casotac.com/CASonline%20Articles/23122009_2.html):

'When Lord Buddha manifested Nirvana at Kushinagara, it is recorded in the scriptures that the bone relics of Lord Buddha were devotedly collected by the gods to be enshrined and offered devoted services in their heavens. Venerable Ananda and Venerable Kashyapa requested the gods to leave some relics in our human realm as a source of merit and blessings for our world. As a result, some of the Buddha's bone relics remained with us and subsequently, it is recorded, too, that Nagarjuna enshrined some precious relics in treasure casket at Bodhigaya.
 
However, the claims by this association, of the sudden but un-accounted for revelation of thousands of blood, brain or saliva relics, could not be referenced from any of the holy scriptures, history, tradition or in the Tibetan circle. '

This Kadhampa Buddhist Association arrange regular relics tour in Asia, with thousanads of relics. CAS Online mentioned that kind of 'magic' show in TV:

'The Taiwanese "tulku", the alleged incarnation of Chenrezig, has also, in front of television audiences, held an alleged hair of Lord Buddha between his fingers, with the hair apparently twitching like a worm from side to side in his hands. When he dumped the hair in a mug of liquid, the hair apparently "swam" of its own efforts, '

It is said that $ trading is involved behind it.

See one of their advertisment as enclosed.

Khensur Rinpoche also mentioned :
'There has never been any historical precedent or valid scriptural basis for wearing these green-striped robes. In fact, I am concerned that their lineage is not authentic because "Serkong Tritul", head of this association, has flipped-flopped by declaring himself to be the reincarnation of this, and then, that, different Ganden Tripas in the past. In addition, he has switched his claim before to having been the reincarnation of a great yogi practitioner "Apong". It appears that there has been some contradictions in his own claims !!
 
Let me recount, in short, how reincarnation became institutionalised in Tibet. The first recognised reincarnated master of Tibet is the first Gyalwa Karmapa. Subsequently, the recognition of reincarnation of past masters ( called "tulkus" ) spread to the other traditions. In the Gelugpa lineage, it is mainly the Dalai Lama or the Ganden Tripas who will recognise Tulkus. In the Sakya lineage, the Sakya Trizin will be mainly responsible while for the Nyingma lineage, great masters such as the Mindroling Trichen, the late Dudjom Rinpoche or Palyul Penor Rinpoche will be the authority. In the Drikung Kagyu, the Drukpa Kagyu and other lineages, the respective great masters will fulfill the task and they each have their respective, stringent and definitely valid systems of recognising incarnations of great masters from their lineage.
 
Here, "Serkong Tritul" is not recognised by any of the senior lineage-holders of any of the schools. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has never recognised him as a Tulku and neither has any of the heads of the other lineages. This association claims to represent the Kadampa lineage, but all the old Kadampa masters have passed away, so these old, holy Kadampa masters could not have recognised them as Kadampas or as tulkus of the Kadampa lineage.
 
The formal inheritors of the Kadampa lineage are the Gelugpas. None of the Gelugpa lineage-holders alive today - not His Holiness or the Ganden Tripa - recognised him as a tulku. So, merely claiming himself to be a tulku does not and could not, at all, factually make him one.
 
They have been requested to offer proofs of their recognition as Kadampas. "Serkong Tritul" has also been questioned many times to provide proof of who recognised him as the real tulku of Serkong Tritul and to date, they could not offer any answers or proof.'

Trinley Kalsang mentioned some frequent quoted POV in this forum which looks strange.  I would like to add one more:
- Those claim themselves practicing DS must be right in all aspects, those not practising it must be wrong in all aspects

So it is kind of ''X don't practice DS-> X is not worth listening to, no matter what it is about(those not related to DS).  Y practice DS-> Y must be non-questionable in his discipline, his activities etc..'

Chairman Mao once said 'enemy's enemy is our friend'.  It is a right tactic politically, but for religious matter this may not be a good idea.

BTW, this Kadhampa Buddhist Association has announced no further relationship with DS openly.  How come they come back now?

I don't want this forum be a sub-firum of Kadhampa Buddhist Association.  I put it straight: this Kadhampa Buddhist Association organization is not appreciated by the Chinese-speaking Gelukpa community, no matter they practice or not practice DS.


Geronimo

  • Guest
Some people will believe anything and the Three Poisons know no boundaries.Mormons based their beliefs upon Golden Tablets that were transcribed, then dissappeared.
All kinds of superstitious nonsense exist in religiousilous
One test they always avoid is Scientific scruntiny under the microscope.
But if people can think their Absolute Master is an actual God King, and he condemned them to suffer as Serfs?
Which apparently they thank him for, is as big a mystery to me, as any other Cult's behavior.
If it makes them happy.
Well there is a fool born every second!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 06:56:02 AM by Lhakpa Gyaltshen »

thor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1431
As Serkong Tritul was an incumbent of Gaden Jangtse, would they have enthroned him as a Rinpoche without proper recognition?

Whether he is a real rinpoche or not doesnt really matter. More important than titles are real dharma practice and the qualities that come along with it. Many tulkus manifest with or without titles as required by circumstance. Serkong tritul has built huge monasteries in Taiwan and Nepal. He is supporting the sangha of Shar Gaden in these difficult times. His student Jangsem Rinpoche is spreading the teachings in south asia. He stuck by dorje shugden and got thrown out of the monastery for it. Yet he's doing fine and growing ever bigger. THat's pretty good results by me.

lightning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
What Khensur Rinpoche talk about is:

 'the big problem here is that there is not one single Buddhist scripture which has mentioned about the Buddha having left relics of saliva / blood or brains.'

Not saying that no relic ever exist.  So you are mixing up the two.

Rinpoche explain as below(http://www.casotac.com/CASonline%20Articles/23122009_2.html):

'When Lord Buddha manifested Nirvana at Kushinagara, it is recorded in the scriptures that the bone relics of Lord Buddha were devotedly collected by the gods to be enshrined and offered devoted services in their heavens. Venerable Ananda and Venerable Kashyapa requested the gods to leave some relics in our human realm as a source of merit and blessings for our world. As a result, some of the Buddha's bone relics remained with us and subsequently, it is recorded, too, that Nagarjuna enshrined some precious relics in treasure casket at Bodhigaya.
 


In regards to the source of the relics, HH Dalai Lama's Maitreya Project also have Shaykamuni Buddha's blood relics and "head" Relics. Preharps Khensur Rinpoche must have overlooked that Maitreya Project (under Zopa Rinpoche) also have similar relics and may have not even seen real Buddha Relics before? There are other Buddhist organizations including HH Dalai Lama 's organization having blood relics, forehead or head relics (it is actually brain relics), flesh relics of Buddha Shakyamuni. Are you saying that their relics also came from unreliable source too? Please kindly open your eyes and see under the link below: http://www.maitreyaproject.org/en/relic/gallery-shakyamuni.html
<Extracted from Maitreya Project Website>

Relic and Source
Buddha Shakyamuni's blood relics - These relics came from Meiktila Relic Museum in Burma and were offered by the abbot who manages the museum.
Buddha Shakyamuni's head relics - These relics were offered to Lama Zopa Rinpoche by his student, Wu Wen Yuen, during a long life puja (prayer ceremony) for Rinpoche held in Taipei, Taiwan on 18th March 2001.
The small granular relics came from a Thai monk who brought them to Malaysia. They were then given to a layperson whose practice was to make many offerings to the Sangha (ordained monks and nuns).
The white, flake-like relics came from Meiktila Relic Museum in Burma.
The one large and three smaller relics came from a senior monk in Borobudur, Indonesia where there is a great Buddhist monument. Upon Lama Zopa Rinpoche's request he offered these relics, which had been in his possession for many, many years, for placing in the Heart Shrine of the Maitreya Buddha statue.
The four identical relics were offered by His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai Lama for the purpose of enshrining them at the heart of the Maitreya Buddha statue.
The very white relics were offered to Lama Zopa Rinpoche by his student, Wu Wen Yuen.
<Extracted from Maitreya Project Website>

below are some of the links where the simliar Buddha relics does not from Kadhampa are found identical:

http://newsuperkingbuffet.com/culture-n6619

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/61388_extraordinary-rare-and-precious-sacred-buddhist-relics-of-all-time-superb-photograph
Blood relics and head relics are mentioned here in Maitreya Project

http://www.buddha.sg/htm/general/relic.htm

http://blog.forestmeditation.com/2008/05/20/hello-world/

http://myanmarspace.com/user/crazycmh/blogs

http://aryamahayana.forumup.com/about57-aryamahayana.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ginasant/2450114841/
Blood relics of Shakyamuni Buddha

http://bgf.buddhism.org/graphics/bgf/photogallery.htm
Buddhist Gem Fellowship have showcased the Buddha Relics in the BGF Center from 29th Dec 01 to 1st Jan 02.

http://slz.goodweb.cn/faq_1.asp

http://photo.tamtay.vn/photo/view/166593__7

http://space.tv.cctv.com/video/VIDE1237210184325888

http://www.gscn.com.cn/get/picture/0771615090987304_79.htm

http://www.docin.com/p-25305812.html

http://blog.bandao.cn/archive/66219/blogs-596682.aspx

http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=8128292


Below pictures are the various blood and head relics extracted from Maitreya Project Website:
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 07:46:33 AM by lightning »

lightning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
What Khensur Rinpoche talk about is:

 Khensur Rinpoche also mentioned :
'There has never been any historical precedent or valid scriptural basis for wearing these green-striped robes. In fact, I am concerned that their lineage is not authentic because "Serkong Tritul", head of this association, has flipped-flopped by declaring himself to be the reincarnation of this, and then, that, different Ganden Tripas in the past. In addition, he has switched his claim before to having been the reincarnation of a great yogi practitioner "Apong". It appears that there has been some contradictions in his own claims !!
 
Here, "Serkong Tritul" is not recognised by any of the senior lineage-holders of any of the schools. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has never recognised him as a Tulku and neither has any of the heads of the other lineages. This association claims to represent the Kadampa lineage, but all the old Kadampa masters have passed away, so these old, holy Kadampa masters could not have recognised them as Kadampas or as tulkus of the Kadampa lineage.

The underlying and compelling reasons as why the change to from Chinese Gelug Sect to Kadham Sect is due to that HH Dalai Lama is involved in politics and has made a great mess out of entire Gelug Sect. In fact, Kadham is part of the Gelug lineage and so long as the true essence of the Buddhism has been preserved and changing to "orchid" sect or "table" sect does not matters at all. Serkong Titul Rinpoche has maintained the top postion in debate in the Gaden Monastery (not an easy feat) and had refused to accept the position as Ganden Tripa, knowing something will happen...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 02:04:52 AM by lightning »