Author Topic: Denma Locho Rinpoche and Jamseng Rinpoche of Kadhampa Buddhist Association  (Read 40334 times)

lightning

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Looking at the photos, Jamseng Rinpoche along with his monks and nuns are no longer wearing the yellow inner vest but wearing the green colored vest. What does this symbolise? A new lineage?
Green color is used to represent as Kadhampa. Green colour represents the Buddhas' activities and also Tara as well. Atisha relies on Tara as well. The Gelug is actually New Kadhampa Lineage. Kadhampa is not new at all and it is reverting and advocate the way of the Kadhampa master's spirit in practicing Dharma.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 10:53:33 PM by lightning »

wang

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I just noticed that Denma Locho Rinpoche and Jamseng Rinpoche are reported in another article: Desecrating the Dharma???? Another 'interesting' article from Singapore!! http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=554.0 which reported that Jamseng Rinpoche conned Denma Locho Rinpoche to take photos with him. Is the article below true?


 


Looking at the photos, Jamseng Rinpoche along with his monks and nuns are no longer wearing the yellow inner vest but wearing the green colored vest. What does this symbolise? A new lineage?


That's part of their China strategy!

Everybody talk about the big business opportunities in China, and they started penetrating this 'religious market' already.

In 2007, 'Jamseng Rinpoche' had his relic show in Wutaishan, Manjushiri's holy place.  They also sponsored a local monastery in Zhejiang, where the Avalokiteshvara Pota Island located.  I believe there were more activities un-exposed yet.  As their fellow appear more often in China's web recently, it seems they gained some success.

Forming the Kadhampa Buddhist Association in 2008 further fine-tune their marketing road-map in China:
- change of company logo: with green colored vest they can distant themselves from the Gelukpa mainstream which make them easier to deal with the local officials. They can claim that they are a lineage not associated with Tibetan(remember Mar 08 there were turbulence in Tibet) to the officials, at the same time they got 'essence of Tibetan Buddhism' to attract the locals.
- organization re-structuring: with the new 'Rinpoche assignment methodology', they can have 45 Rinpoche in their organization.  To cover the Taiwan/ASEAN region, they have 15 'Rinpoches' assigned already.  So there are 30 vacancies left, enough for further assignment to their fellows in mainland(who really work things out for them), and giving away to some locals( as honorable gesture to build up affiliated).  Please note that there are 32 provinces in China and assigning one manager to handle 2-3 provinces is quite a common practice for MNC running office in Beijing.

I suspect that the recent preach of 'Pachen supporting DS' and 'DS follower growing in China' are part of their 'business progress report'.

It is just about business...

PS: If uou are are able to read their websites, you would find that they got no mentioning of any recent Tibetan masters.   'Jamseng Rinpoche'  is 'the biggest Living Buddha of all Living Buddhas' in their words, even Serkong Tritul is lightly mentioned.  Their intention is quite obvious.



« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 12:38:21 AM by wang »

a friend

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Dear Wang,

How do you know the intentions of these people? Why do you portray them as mere merchants trying to sell Dharma?
I don´t think it´s fair to accuse them based on the color of clothing and a propensity to find Rinpoches. Are they teaching Dharma or not? This is what one should be checking.


wang

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Dear a friend,

I wonder you can read Chinese or not?

Without reading through their sites by yourself, it would be hard to convince you that it is exactly what the Han Buddhist community's view about them. I have tried to use as much quote from their sites as possible, please not take it as my mere invention. I am doing a translation only.

In general, they have a very non-Gelukpa style of presentation.

About dharma:
- They don't have books print by big publication house, but have some sadhana of their own print which once appeared in the Buddhist bookstore(but only once,not anymore).
- Their sites don't have Jamseng or Serkong Tritul's teaching available.
- They do have their tsog, fire puja etc. (otherwise it won't be a center...)

About relics show:
- They didn't price it, but I do know a case of someone bought it from them a few years ago, not by small dollar.  Chinese is quite crazy of relics.

Tsem Rinpoche of Malaysia take a non-traditional style in his activities, he is not non-disputable in the Han Buddhist community either.  But as we can download his teachings from his site to see what he really taught about, all his center's items(statue, protector knots etc.) are priced publicly, his center has books of various topics published, and even recently a big Taiwanese publication house has his book about guru devotion printed, I won't doubt he is spreading the Dharma, though in a bit non-traditional way.  But sorry that I am not convinced of accepting Kadhampa Buddhist Association's style to be contributing the same as Tsem Rinpoche did...
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 08:13:05 AM by wang »

emptymountains

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ANYONE could be a Buddha! If there were a child molester who was responsible for the children of an orphanage and he was doing his thing, would you speak out? Criticize? Say "He is a child molester" when others couldn't see what the problem was?

Would you respect him for "who he represents?" (Children with no protector?)

Would you say, "Well, he COULD be a Buddha manifesting to give these defenseless children some lojong opportunities, or perhaps by molesting them he is creating the causes for them to develop renunciation and compassion. By creating such a scandal, he is bring the problems of Child Molestation to a wider audience..... etc etc ."

When someone behaves like a monster, you speak out.

An unfortunate, but perfect analogy. I hope it opens peoples eyes.

DID Dorje Shugden in fact "Say" not to lose faith in the Dalai Lama. When did he say this? To whom was he speaking? you? Are you certain about this? I can tell you I am not. And if he did, what did he mean? 

I would be happy if you would answer, please.

Perhaps it only means not to lose faith in the pure nature of living beings (i.e., living beings are not their delusions). This does not deny that they have delusions, only that the faults we normally see in a person are actually the faults of their delusions. The only appropriate response to a deluded person is compassion, as well as restraining them from harming others, which is exactly what I see people in the WSS and others doing. They seem to be avoiding both extremes of idolizing the person or cursing him.

honeydakini

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Dear a friend,

I wonder you can read Chinese or not?

Without reading through their sites by yourself, it would be hard to convince you that it is exactly what the Han Buddhist community's view about them. I have tried to use as much quote from their sites as possible, please not take it as my mere invention. I am doing a translation only.

In general, they have a very non-Gelukpa style of presentation.

About dharma:
- They don't have books print by big publication house, but have some sadhana of their own print which once appeared in the Buddhist bookstore(but only once,not anymore).
- Their sites don't have Jamseng or Serkong Tritul's teaching available.
- They do have their tsog, fire puja etc. (otherwise it won't be a center...)

About relics show:
- They didn't price it, but I do know a case of someone bought it from them a few years ago, not by small dollar.  Chinese is quite crazy of relics.

Tsem Rinpoche of Malaysia take a non-traditional style in his activities, he is not non-disputable in the Han Buddhist community either.  But as we can download his teachings from his site to see what he really taught about, all his center's items(statue, protector knots etc.) are priced publicly, his center has books of various topics published, and even recently a big Taiwanese publication house has his book about guru devotion printed, I won't doubt he is spreading the Dharma, though in a bit non-traditional way.  But sorry that I am not convinced of accepting Kadhampa Buddhist Association's style to be contributing the same as Tsem Rinpoche did...

Dear Wang,

Perhaps you might not agree or find Jamseng Rinpoche's style or methods of teaching agreeable or even beneficial but do bear in mind that there are many people out there who have benefited from his teachings, who like his methods and who are probably practising Dharma because of him. Methods vary quite differently from teacher to teacher and there will definitely be some that we do not like. Yes perhaps some of what he does may look "commercial" to some people, but it may be what other people are attracted to and like, and therefore will be led to practise Dharma from there. Also, they may get a lot of sponsorship but who are we to comment on this - what are they using the sponsorship for? If results is anything to go by, they are have certainly brought many people to dharma, so they must be doing something very well. I certainly have not heard of them doing anything harmful to anyone.

In any case, it is dangerous, I believe to start judging Lamas and their intentions, methods and styles. After all, have we been monks/nuns, taken vows, studied in the monasteries and practised Dharma as much as them? If we haven't, and if we are just laypeople, then who are we to criticise and comment on their methods? And there are many, many lamas out there - if you don't like this particular Lama's methods, then there are many others who you could choose to follow as a Guru.

Yes, we may not agree with their style, but we can still maintain respect and not judge or criticise. After all, we all have our own karma to answer to at the end of the day.

lightning

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Dear Wang,

Perhaps you might not agree or find Jamseng Rinpoche's style or methods of teaching agreeable or even beneficial but do bear in mind that there are many people out there who have benefited from his teachings, who like his methods and who are probably practising Dharma because of him. Methods vary quite differently from teacher to teacher and there will definitely be some that we do not like. Yes perhaps some of what he does may look "commercial" to some people, but it may be what other people are attracted to and like, and therefore will be led to practise Dharma from there. Also, they may get a lot of sponsorship but who are we to comment on this - what are they using the sponsorship for? If results is anything to go by, they are have certainly brought many people to dharma, so they must be doing something very well. I certainly have not heard of them doing anything harmful to anyone.

In any case, it is dangerous, I believe to start judging Lamas and their intentions, methods and styles. After all, have we been monks/nuns, taken vows, studied in the monasteries and practised Dharma as much as them? If we haven't, and if we are just laypeople, then who are we to criticise and comment on their methods? And there are many, many lamas out there - if you don't like this particular Lama's methods, then there are many others who you could choose to follow as a Guru.

Yes, we may not agree with their style, but we can still maintain respect and not judge or criticise. After all, we all have our own karma to answer to at the end of the day.
Dear honeydakini,

You are the best! ;DMaintaining and running a non profit organization is no easy feat and needs sponsorship to keep going. A growing organization needs to adopt strategies in order to expand and attract more people, this applies to non profit organizations as well.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 09:24:41 PM by lightning »

a friend

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Dear Wang,
Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately I don't read Chinese.
   Thank you for trying to shed some light to dispel my ignorance. I definitely share your worries about the "selling Dharma" subject. This is something I am very sensitive to, I can assure you.
   Nevetheless I don't think it possible to judge a Lama and a Dharma Center through a website or through a couple of hearsays.
   To tell you the truth, after the events we have witnessed coming from Dharamsala I tend to be very open and not too demanding. If they are not harming others in any serious way I am not ready to judge their "style" as a Dharma Center. Are they spreading Dharma? It seems so. Are they approved by everybody? No. But not even Lord Buddha Shakyamuni was universally accepted ... So let's hope for the best.
   Thank you again for your message.


Zhalmed Pawo

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Maintaining and running a non profit organization is no easy feat and needs sponsorship to keep going. A growing organization needs to adopt strategies in order to expand and attract more people, this applies to non profit organizations as well.

Yes. While I remain cynical concerning some relics, what you lightning said here is absolutely true.

It is easy to think that everything just falls from the sky, or that money pops out of nothingness, but the truth is, that if one wants to promote and spread the Dharma in this human world, one needs money and resources, and they do not come by themselves. In one thread here I linked Gregory Schopen's lecture called "Buddha as a Businessman", and I think everyone should watch it. Buddhism is a realistic and rational religion, so even from the Day One, there has been a keen sense of having to "pay the bills" so to speak.

Mere faith might be enough for a singular practitioner, but for a Dharma-organization, more is needed. That means income. Money.

Heck, there are good historical examples of selfish Dharma-businesses turned good (I do not imply that Jangsem is doing this, I merely wish to mention that Dharma is great). Prime example is Marpa, who started to translate Dharma just to get money, but eventually the texts changed his mind, and he became a real practitioner, and became enlightened, and furthermore, his realizations gave birth to the powerful Kagyu-schools. So even if the initial motivation might be base, there is a great hope!

So maybe Jangsem does things in an unusual way, but so what? We "shugdenites of today" are not mainstream either.  ;D All discussions of this kind should end in the discussion of whether there is Dharma taught. If Jangsem provides that, then all is well. Or should be, at least.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 10:35:53 PM by Zhalmed Pawo »

wang

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I suppose most of the difference in view here are due to mis-match of information.  Below are biographies of Serkong Tritul and ‘Jamseng Rinpoche’ as presented in their website:

a.   Serkong Tritul

Here is a list of his previous lives :

1.   White Manjushiri, 2.Maha Kashyapa, 3.Nagarjuna , 4. Chandrakirti, 5..., 6. Shantideva, 7...., 8. ..., 9.Great translator Vairochana, 10. Atisha, 11...., 12...., 13...., 14...., 15. Great Vehicle Dharma King Kunjesinpa (note: a Sakyapa grant title of Dharma King by the Ming emperor, the other two most famous grant with Dharma King titles were Karmapa and Jamchen Choeje Shakya Yeshi , founder of Sera Monastery), 16. 4th Ganden Tripa, 17. 13rd Ganden Tripa, 18...., 19.32th Ganden Tripa, 20...., 21. 56th Ganden Tripa, 22. Hui Hung Rinpoch, 23.Hui tong Rinpoche,24.Hui Peng Rinpoche, 25.Hui Yuen Rinpoche.

Note: ‘Serkong Tritul’ is not the name most commonly quoted in their web-site.  Instead the title of ‘Most Venerable the 25th Great Vehicle Dharma King ’ and ‘39th Yamantaka lineage holder’ are the most frequently quote. 

b.    ‘Jamseng Rinpoche’
Unlike Serkong Tritul , there are a lot information about ‘Jamseng Rinpoche’ in their web-site,.  Here is some translation from their site:

-   The venerable 6th Jamseng Rinpoche’s past lives are: 1.Mahipa(one of the 84 Mahasiddhas), 2. Dromtonpa (founder of Kamdapa), 3. Sakya Pandita (the 4th Sayka great master) 4. Jamyang Choje( Founder of Drepung Monastery) 5…6. Jamseng Rinpoche…

-   …The current 6th Jamseng Rinpoche is said to be ‘the biggest Living Buddha out of all living Buddha’, ‘Sangha King out of the sangha’, holding super high degree in sutra, and high degree in tantra. He is first abbot of Nepal’s biggest monastery(Great Vihecle Monastery, with 2600 monks)…Jamseng Rinpoche hold a superior position, practicing Shakyamuni Buddha and Je Tsongkapa’s sutric/tantric total lineage…and got dieties’ endorsement. During practice in Taiwan, chakra appeared in the window glass. Duing Yamantaka fire puja  in NZ, 5 color appeared in the mandala.  5 color appeared during dharma teaching in HK and in Malaysia.  Yamantaka appeared during fire puja in Singapore

The site further say that:

Jamseng Rinpoche has fully mastered the three vehicle, four views of tenets, four tantra, four initiations, generation stage, completion stage, all teachings from Tsongkapa’s lineage.

The site further on his biography, I make it concise here:

-   Born in 1964 in Taiwan
-   By end 1994, met Serkong Tritul and received the Yamantaka initiation from him. Got a dream about lightning, earth split and decided to be monk.
-   1995 tonsured by Serkong Tritul
-   1996 recognize as Jamseng Rinpoche by Serkong Tritul
-   1996 enthroned as Jamseng Rinpoche in Gaden monastery.  Received Sramanera Precepts and got ordained by Sera Abbot Sayka Rinpoche in Tibet.
-   1997 appointed as 1st abbot of Great Vehicle Monastery in Nepal by Serkong Tritul
-   1998 performed tonsure ceremony for over 300 kids in the Great Vehicle Monastery
-   1999 recognize as one of the high Dharma King in Tibet by Serkong Tritul, with previous lives as Mahipa, Dromtonpa , Sakya Pandita etc..
-   2000 Received highest sutra and tantra degree from Great Vehicle monastery

Here is translation of his ‘Tulku certificate’ from their site:

Tulku Certificate

Father Tsei MG, the 6th Jamseng Rinpoche named Tsei JT

Studied in the Great Vehicle Monastery on subjects of Treatise on Valid Cognition, Ornament of Clear Realization, Introduction to the Middle Way, Abhidharma, The Root of the Vinaya (ie. The 5 texts),  three vehicle four tenets, fully master sutra scripture and grant with doctor degree in sutra, called the Super-Lharampa Degree.

Jointly by
Nepal Great Vehicle Monastery  Great Vehicle Dharma King
Great Vehicle Monastery Abbot                        Date: July 3rd 2000


PS: by 2008, with setup of Kadhampa Buddhist Association, 6th Jamseng Rinpoche's new name is 18th Drom-Tug Rinpoche, Drom stands for Dromtonpa, Tug stands for mind.   No re-incarnation list of his previous 17 lives provided yet.  Same case for the other 14 'Rinpoche',  who mostly be 18th re-incarnations of Atisha's disciples.
                  


In essence,

i.   For Jamseng Rinpoche :

He was ordained in 1996, be abbot of the ‘Great Vehicle Monastery’ in 1997(which was bought by Serkong Tritul in same year), and by 2000, he got a ‘Super Lharampa Degree’ from the same monastery which he has been abbot. He completed equivalent of Lharampa degree(if not superior to it) in 3 year’s time, 4 years after ordination!

ii.   For Serkong Tritul
Besides the re-incarnation list as 25th Great Vehicle Dharma King, there is not much other information available in their sites.  To supplement the missing part, this is re-construction of his biography based on input from ex-members of his center, magazine and bits and pieces from his site:

Serkong Tritul was born in 1965 in Nepal.  By age 11 he entered Sera Monastery, and moved to Gaden Monastery afterwards.  He studied in the monasteries for 10 years.  At age of 21, he left Gaden Monastery to Singapore, then in 1989 to Taiwan. He was never recognized as a tulku in Sera or Gaden Monastery, but started to self-claim name of Serkong Tritul in Taiwan.  It was in early stage of Tibetan Buddhism development in Taiwan, he was a pioneer bringing in the Gelukpa teachings to Taiwan(note: with 10 years stay in the monasteries, his mastering of Buddhist tenets would be far deeper than a lot average Han Buddhist monks already. ). 

The turn-around point about Serkong Tritul was in 1992.  He was involved in a sex scandal, accused of rape by a girl serving in his center. He admitted having sex with this girl to the police(so his admission was documented by the Police), but denied of rape. The charge was resolved at the end after the girl gave up the accusation (note:she died a few years later out of cancer, said to be due to depression).  Serkong Tritul left Taiwan after the event, and back in 1994 fall with more title (ie. The 25th Great Vehicle Dharma King and four times be Gaden tripa etc.).  In 1997, he bought a monastery in Nepal and named it ‘Great Vehicle Monastery’, which is root monastery of his organization afterwards.

lightning said:

 ‘Serkong Tritul Rinpoche was groomed up by Song Rinpoche from young and had maintained as the top debater in Ganden Monastery. Zemey Rinpoche passed all the Yamantaka Lineages to Serkong Tritul Rinpoche making Him the Lineage holder of Lone Yamantaka. He also acquired 8 Maha Teachings and many others valuable uncommon teachings from various renowned masters, like Guru Deva, Kensur Rinpoche Sonam Kunga, Zemey Rinoche, Locho Rinpoche etc.’. 

Serkong Tritul(by then his name was Thitill Lobsang Jyongne, not Serkong Tritul) was just a ordinary monk, most probably not even completed the Madhyamaka Uma class when he left the monastery.  How possible would it be for Zemey Rinpoche to grant him 39th Yamantaka Lineage Holder?

I am not saying that Serkong Tritul didn’t receive any teachings from those high lamas, or received any financial support from them.  But as an ordinary student monk, he got no privilege as like those tulkus who can jump class or receive special transmission on special event.  So if he did receive any teachings from those high lamas during that time, it would not be ‘uncommon teachings’ specific for him, but to all the monks in the monastery.  If he did receive any care from the high lamas, it would be a support to all young monks who has financial difficulties by then, not specific for him. 

Serkong Tritul is benefactor to a lot high lamas and DS related sangha, which is what I rejoice at.  That’s why although the portraits about him and ‘Jamseng Rinpoche’ here differ a lot from the Han Buddhist community, I didn’t say much. However, recently I notice that here started to have attack on other Rinpoche(or centers) who don’t recognize Kadhampa Buddhist Association’s activities, as demonstrated in this thread, or other posts about CAS’s web(which is not DS related), although I am not connected to Khensur Rinpoche/CAS, by law of ‘action and reaction’, I felt obliged to provide some further information about them in the Chinese media. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 03:13:56 AM by wang »

lightning

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I suppose most of the difference in view here are due to mis-match of information.  Below are biographies of Serkong Tritul and ‘Jamseng Rinpoche’ as presented in their website:
Serkong Tritul(by then his name was Thitill Lobsang Jyongne, not Serkong Tritul) was just a ordinary monk, most probably not even completed the Madhyamaka Uma class when he left the monastery.  How possible would it be for Zemey Rinpoche to grant him 39th Yamantaka Lineage Holder?

I am not saying that Serkong Tritul didn’t receive any teachings from those high lamas, or received any financial support from them.  But as an ordinary student monk, he got no privilege as like those tulkus who can jump class or receive special transmission on special event.  So if he did receive any teachings from those high lamas during that time, it would not be ‘uncommon teachings’ specific for him, but to all the monks in the monastery.  If he did receive any care from the high lamas, it would be a support to all young monks who has financial difficulties by then, not specific for him. 

If you think that Serkong Tritul Rinpoche is an ordinary monk maybe the attached pictures of many high ranking lamas offered Him white Silk scarf (Ka Tas) speaks a thousand words. I will try my best to translate the names of the lamas if there is time and with my best knowledge, If anyone can reconsiged them kindly help me to correct the names of these high lamas

Page-0001.jpg
Serkong Tritul Rinpoche in His age 16 years
Left 1: Rinpoche
Middle: Rinpoche
right: Serkong Kangzhu Rinpoche

Page-0002a.jpg
Serkong Rinpoche offering to Ji Cai Se Jia Rinpoche

Page-0002b.jpg
Abbot of a monastery: Geshe Palayoubeng Rinpoche

Page-0003.jpg
Left 1: Ji Kang Zi Rinpoche
Middle: Geshe Tenzin ji Ba Rinpoche
right:  Rinpoche

Page-0004.jpg
Offering Taka: Loh Cai Rinpoche
Left: Geshe Tenzin Ji Ba Rinpoche

Page-0005.jpg
Left 1: Yu Lin Rinpoche
Left 2: Dan Zhu Rinpoche

Page-0006.jpg
Offering Taka: Dalai Lama's steward Ji Cai Qi Dan
Left 1: Geshe Serkong ...

Page-0007.jpg
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 10:30:57 PM by lightning »

lightning

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More...

Page-0017.jpg
Offering KaTa: Geshe
Left 1: Trijiang Rinpoche Steward Qi Zai

Page-0018.jpg
Highest Throne: 98th Gaden Tripa
Offering KaTa: Gaden Monastery Current ... Geshe Lobsang Du ji
Right 1: Geshe Lobsang An Zhu
Left 1: Geshe Dama Lo sang
Serkong Ga Se Rinpoche and 3000 Lamas

Page-0018.jpg
Offering KaTa: Qi Ji Lama
Left 1: Geshe Lobsang Tenzin
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 10:18:25 PM by lightning »