Author Topic: KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S ADVICE REGARDING DORJE SHUGDEN AND DALAI LAMA...  (Read 46572 times)

Geronimo

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We commit ourselves to the enlightened Dharma Protector, Dorje Shugden. We will remain steadfast without resorting to negative comments or actions towards those who do not agree with us or criticise us.
We will carry out our holy practice peacefully and be REAL Buddhists.
With all the kindness and help that Dorje Shugden has done for my family and I, this is the least I can do for him.


Healing the Wounded Healer,
One Day at a Time !
Vows we remember
In Our Everyday Life
The Ones We Forget
As We Pass by an Unhappy Face
Forgetting to Mirror In Our Smiles
The Secret That Buddha Shared
and Je T'Song Khapa Clarified!
The Love We Give
Is Given In That Moment
With Buddha's Smile
The One All Knowing
of Human Possibilities
and Human Frailities
Accepting with Breathing
In and Breathing Out
It is abstract in the describing
So Simple, the Solution
As to evade the Monkey Mind
Never quite satisfied
We approach the Pearl
With Sticks and Stones
Blinded by the Efferverscent Rainbow Lights
True Lama need no Certificates
True Lamas Guide by their Constantly
Practicing the Dharma
Keeping the Light Bright
For us in the Twilight Zone
What we see
Is where we go
Follow the Bright Light
The Warm One
That Surrounds Us!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 12:35:16 AM by Lhakpa Gyaltshen »

Lee Dhi

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Thank you, a friend, for 1) the advice and 2) for a clear and logical expression of point of view. It is so wonderful to see that, despite the varying angle we take, we are agreeable on the core motive to have pure Dharma flourish! I actually re-read this thread as it is simply rich with views and information ?

I am beginning to understand a little more about Middleway’s and your view regarding the necessity to keep secret/pure view secret (apologies if I bastardize some of Dharma terms). In upholding the sacredness of the pure view, I read that we should not express openly that DL’s actions cold be part of a bigger picture that could benefit the practice of DS in the long run.

However, as I digest the writings again, the following concern/question arose:

1)   As a newbie to Dharma, I searched for information related to the Dharma on the Internet (as many others do) because it is such a rich resource of information that is easily accessible.
2)   Surprisingly, many search results listed articles, videos etc related to this major controversy that, generally put, divided the whole Dharma society. Worst of all, the Buddhadharma icon, H.H the 14th Dalai Lama, was the depicted as the main culprit.
3)   Due to my low-leveled mind, I started to question and have doubts, not only in DL but the Buddhadharma. Some of my friends in Europe (who read about the WSS demonstrations) also started asking “What is happening?!” I also hear that this controversy caused some individuals who wish to seek spirituality to choose new-age schools instead of Buddhism.
4)   Perhaps, because I am very fortunate, I received explanations that there is possibility that all this controversy could be part of a bigger cause that will bring eventual, long term benefits to the Buddhadharma and sentient beings. My faith rose.

Therefore, my question is: “If we “shout” the outer “wrongs” of H.H and uphold the sacredness of the pure view, how do we protect the Dharma in the eyes of new interested Dharma practitioners and spiritual seekers? DharmaDefender shared that the protests are causing some undesired consequence to the Dharma. It would be most sad if we “loose” new Dharma friends because of this controversy, which in secret, may not a controversy.

Perhaps Lhakpa Gyaltshen’s is most accurate in his last posting, the ideal method is to “…practice peacefully and be a real Buddhist.”… “without resorting to negative comments or actions towards those who do not agree with us or criticize us.”

Zhalmed Pawo

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Therefore, my question is: “If we “shout” the outer “wrongs” of H.H and uphold the sacredness of the pure view, how do we protect the Dharma in the eyes of new interested Dharma practitioners and spiritual seekers? DharmaDefender shared that the protests are causing some undesired consequence to the Dharma. It would be most sad if we “loose” new Dharma friends because of this controversy, which in secret, may not a controversy.

Perhaps Lhakpa Gyaltshen’s is most accurate in his last posting, the ideal method is to “…practice peacefully and be a real Buddhist.”… “without resorting to negative comments or actions towards those who do not agree with us or criticize us.”

The sad fact is, that the conroversy exists. We cannot take that away - it is the DL's job to do it, since he started it.

But what we can do, is that we can choose how we react to the controversy: (1) If we remain silent, what will the newcomers, both in this generation and in the followig ones, then think? They will think that it is allright for Buddhists to practice oppression and ostracizm, for after all, the "great lamas" did so, and nobody challenged those actions, so evidently oppression is part of Buddhism. In this way, the Dharma becomes murky, and the beings will hold bad actions as pure, and ruin themselves. (2) Or, we can 'shout' so to speak, and challenge the wrong actions made in the name of Buddhism, to make it plain, that they are not Buddhism. In this way, all the newcomers see clearly, that unethical behaviour is not part of Buddhism. In this way, we can protect both the beings and the Dharma.

Therefore, to protect the Dharma and beings, we should 'shout', not remain silent. If some poeople keep their distance from Buddhism because of that, it really is the DL's action that caused it. And in any case, it is better to lose few timid would-be-followers than to lose the basis of Dharma, ie ethics and freedom. If Dharma falls, there would be nothing valuable which the would-be-followers could follow of.

There is no "big plan" or "higher purpose". Just tumblings and foilings of a medieval Hierarch. The only long-term benefit there will be is, as people see that the King has feet of clay, they will learn to place their trust on the Teachings and learn to think for themselves, instead of following blindly some god-figures.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 02:25:50 PM by Zhalmed Pawo »

Middleway

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Yeah, some people will lose faith on seeing the protests. But i believe the damage from
 not protesting is far, far greater. Also it's necessary to understand the loss of faith is coming from deluded actions, not from the protests. Still, that only holds if we keep a Dharma motivation, so we have to be careful. 

Middleway

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Oh and if the ban is 'in secret not a controversy' then we do not need to worry - the protest is not really a protest either! We can continue to have our pure view & be very happy while acting in accordance with conventions - meaning saying out loud that the Dalai Lama is lying & should stop.

Middleway

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...Otherwise we are saying that one person's pure view must be adhered to over anothers aren't we?

Lee Dhi

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Hi, there is a thread titled: “Dalai Lama Says WSS Bigger Threat to Tibet Liberation than China!!!!” that updated on the ruling of the courts in New Delhi for the freedom to practice Dorje Shugden. How wonderful!

I believe that the demonstrations and efforts caused this result. With this milestone, I sincerely hope that we can stop "shouting" (while, off course, still keep an eye out to ensure DS practitioner are safe and actually enjoy this new freedom) and return our focus on Dharma practice!




shugdenpromoter

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The following is an extract from Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors (pg 125 onwards)
- a masterpiece of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and downloadable from this site.

CONCLUSION: PERVASIVE ENLIGHTENED ACTIVITIES
 
There is something I must mention at this point.  As stated above, the Great Fifth
Dalai Lama and Omniscient Panchen Rinpoche were like Lords of the Teachings. In
actuality they are, respectively, Arya Avalokiteswara and Buddha Amitabha
emanating in the human form of special holy beings. Yet this Lord of Dharma
Protectors exhibited an ability to harm or destroy them, and such events as the
Great Fifth, having been able to summon this Dharmapala to be burned with
intense samadhi but not accomplish it, also shows that the enlightening activities
of these great masters and those of this Dharmapala are each as mutually
universal and pervasive as the other. But some who are narrow minded, not
understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly
being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama,
disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the
Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other
and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being
who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and
hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and
creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future.
Why is
this true? Because it is utterly impossible that such great beings, who are special
emanations of Arya Avalokiteswara and Buddha Amitabha, could lack the power
to overcome the harmful force of any sort of magical spell, harmful demon, or
spirit. This is because they are both powerful Lords who have overcome external
and internal maras without exception.
   

I was browsing through the older post and I found this gem  :)

It is so true in our deluded mind that we see and only choose to understand what we want to understand. And choose to follow what we would "seem" to be good to follow.

I like what Trijang Rinpoche said about our narrow mind which is influence of attachement and hatred. This is so true as I get daily encounterment in my surrounding whereby when advice is given which definitely can benefit in a long run be turned around and not followed through due to our ego.

In this case, if YAMANTAKA OR HERUKA is standing in front of us, we are quite likely to miss it. Like some of us thinks that Shugden is a devil and HH is evil.

Tenzin Gyatso

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Therefore, my question is: “If we “shout” the outer “wrongs” of H.H and uphold the sacredness of the pure view, how do we protect the Dharma in the eyes of new interested Dharma practitioners and spiritual seekers? DharmaDefender shared that the protests are causing some undesired consequence to the Dharma. It would be most sad if we “loose” new Dharma friends because of this controversy, which in secret, may not a controversy.

Perhaps Lhakpa Gyaltshen’s is most accurate in his last posting, the ideal method is to “…practice peacefully and be a real Buddhist.”… “without resorting to negative comments or actions towards those who do not agree with us or criticize us.”

The sad fact is, that the conroversy exists. We cannot take that away - it is the DL's job to do it, since he started it.

HHDL did start all this from the depths of his wisdom and compassion. And errant followers did not want to listen and abide creating the controversy. HHDL did not create the controversy, but those who persist in spirit worship are perpetuating the controversy.

The controversy can stop immediately. Solution: JUST FOLLOW HHDL's advice now. It's not too late.

Tenzin Gyatso

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Yeah, some people will lose faith on seeing the protests. But i believe the damage from
 not protesting is far, far greater. Also it's necessary to understand the loss of faith is coming from deluded actions, not from the protests. Still, that only holds if we keep a Dharma motivation, so we have to be careful.

Protests make Shugden followers happy. Not protesting makes the non-shugden followers happy. Which one is greater in number? Contemplate. By protesting we damage and hurt the sentiments of the larger non-Shugden practitioners.

For all those who are not Buddhist, it looks very bad-Full Stop. Protesting against the only global Buddhist leader does not generate the right image for Buddhists at all. It damages Buddhism globally. That would damage Buddhism's reputation in the eyes of many more than just Shugden people.

The protests were wrong. Geshe Kelsang who is a great scholar really put a stain on his name/works by masterminding, financing and organizing all these protests. What difference did the protests make? It didn't make a difference only to stain Kadampa centre's reputation and marginalize them. Kadampa was doing so well and the apple of everyone's eye till the protests. Geshe Kelsang really made a huge mistake with the protests. This was his downfall in one way. :( He shouldn't have done it. All the money Geshe Kelsang pumped into protests should have been used in much more beneficial ways.

I am sorry to see this happen to him.  :-[

Zach

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Yeah, some people will lose faith on seeing the protests. But i believe the damage from
 not protesting is far, far greater. Also it's necessary to understand the loss of faith is coming from deluded actions, not from the protests. Still, that only holds if we keep a Dharma motivation, so we have to be careful.

Protests make Shugden followers happy. Not protesting makes the non-shugden followers happy. Which one is greater in number? Contemplate. By protesting we damage and hurt the sentiments of the larger non-Shugden practitioners.

For all those who are not Buddhist, it looks very bad-Full Stop. Protesting against the only global Buddhist leader does not generate the right image for Buddhists at all. It damages Buddhism globally. That would damage Buddhism's reputation in the eyes of many more than just Shugden people.

The protests were wrong. Geshe Kelsang who is a great scholar really put a stain on his name/works by masterminding, financing and organizing all these protests. What difference did the protests make? It didn't make a difference only to stain Kadampa centre's reputation and marginalize them. Kadampa was doing so well and the apple of everyone's eye till the protests. Geshe Kelsang really made a huge mistake with the protests. This was his downfall in one way. :( He shouldn't have done it. All the money Geshe Kelsang pumped into protests should have been used in much more beneficial ways.

I am sorry to see this happen to him.  :-[

Just to note money can't come from NKT centers for protests it comes from individual donors.

Big Uncle

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Yeah, some people will lose faith on seeing the protests. But i believe the damage from
 not protesting is far, far greater. Also it's necessary to understand the loss of faith is coming from deluded actions, not from the protests. Still, that only holds if we keep a Dharma motivation, so we have to be careful.

Protests make Shugden followers happy. Not protesting makes the non-shugden followers happy. Which one is greater in number? Contemplate. By protesting we damage and hurt the sentiments of the larger non-Shugden practitioners.

For all those who are not Buddhist, it looks very bad-Full Stop. Protesting against the only global Buddhist leader does not generate the right image for Buddhists at all. It damages Buddhism globally. That would damage Buddhism's reputation in the eyes of many more than just Shugden people.

The protests were wrong. Geshe Kelsang who is a great scholar really put a stain on his name/works by masterminding, financing and organizing all these protests. What difference did the protests make? It didn't make a difference only to stain Kadampa centre's reputation and marginalize them. Kadampa was doing so well and the apple of everyone's eye till the protests. Geshe Kelsang really made a huge mistake with the protests. This was his downfall in one way. :( He shouldn't have done it. All the money Geshe Kelsang pumped into protests should have been used in much more beneficial ways.

I am sorry to see this happen to him.  :-[

I am sorry but I don't agree with you on this one. I don't think that the protest made anybody happy at all. It is clear that the ban benefited nobody especially within the Tibetan community. All Dorje Shugden practitioners suffered under the ban and those who were non-Shugden practitioners who were deeply affected by the segregation. The most affected are the monastics whose monasteries are devastated by the ban and the split of centuries old monastic institutions like Gaden and Sera.

Therefore, your statement is unfounded and very biased. With regards to the Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, I don't think it was a mistake but someone's got to stand up and say something. I don't think the protest is wrong especially if it was done peacefully. It has hardly tarnished the Dalai Lama's impenetrable image and it has brought on more attention to the plight of ordinary and monastic practitioners of Dorje Shugden. You will see this in written all over this forum and website.

Ensapa

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Yeah, some people will lose faith on seeing the protests. But i believe the damage from
 not protesting is far, far greater. Also it's necessary to understand the loss of faith is coming from deluded actions, not from the protests. Still, that only holds if we keep a Dharma motivation, so we have to be careful.

Protests make Shugden followers happy. Not protesting makes the non-shugden followers happy. Which one is greater in number? Contemplate. By protesting we damage and hurt the sentiments of the larger non-Shugden practitioners.

For all those who are not Buddhist, it looks very bad-Full Stop. Protesting against the only global Buddhist leader does not generate the right image for Buddhists at all. It damages Buddhism globally. That would damage Buddhism's reputation in the eyes of many more than just Shugden people.

The protests were wrong. Geshe Kelsang who is a great scholar really put a stain on his name/works by masterminding, financing and organizing all these protests. What difference did the protests make? It didn't make a difference only to stain Kadampa centre's reputation and marginalize them. Kadampa was doing so well and the apple of everyone's eye till the protests. Geshe Kelsang really made a huge mistake with the protests. This was his downfall in one way. :( He shouldn't have done it. All the money Geshe Kelsang pumped into protests should have been used in much more beneficial ways.

I am sorry to see this happen to him.  :-[

If the world has to work according to the will of the non-Shugden followers, then it would be pretty much a boring and one sided world, isnt it? where people vet centers and teachers and dismiss them as bad, evil or even sacrilegious because they do not follow what they expect teachers or centers to do based on their limited knowledge and wisdom of Buddhism.

First of all, people who are focused on Dharma practice will never criticize or part others from their teachers no matter how bad their teachers may seem. That is not what the Buddha taught, neither is this written in any sutras or commentaries found anywhere in Tibet. It is explained very clearly that if we do meet someone whom we perceive to be following the wrong teacher to just show them evidence and if they dont listen, leave them alone.

And the scriptures and lamas said leave them alone as they have karma with this teacher to follow their chosen path and it is not our place to disturb the karmic affinity of others, logically, that is assuming that we understand the law of karma which every buddhist should, based on what has been taught in the Lamrim. If we dont, then that's too bad as it just goes to show how buddhist we are.

But with that said, I have seen more and more practitioners who neither like or dislike Dorje Shugden who sincerely put into practice the Dharma who would take a neutral stance on this matter and tell others to have  compassion for the Dorje Shugden practitioners. I mean, if you dont like Dorje Shugden, that sounds like a nice stance to take. It also shows that you are indeed more spiritually advanced.

dsiluvu

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Yeah, some people will lose faith on seeing the protests. But i believe the damage from
 not protesting is far, far greater. Also it's necessary to understand the loss of faith is coming from deluded actions, not from the protests. Still, that only holds if we keep a Dharma motivation, so we have to be careful.

Protests make Shugden followers happy. Not protesting makes the non-shugden followers happy. Which one is greater in number? Contemplate. By protesting we damage and hurt the sentiments of the larger non-Shugden practitioners.

For all those who are not Buddhist, it looks very bad-Full Stop. Protesting against the only global Buddhist leader does not generate the right image for Buddhists at all. It damages Buddhism globally. That would damage Buddhism's reputation in the eyes of many more than just Shugden people.

The protests were wrong. Geshe Kelsang who is a great scholar really put a stain on his name/works by masterminding, financing and organizing all these protests. What difference did the protests make? It didn't make a difference only to stain Kadampa centre's reputation and marginalize them. Kadampa was doing so well and the apple of everyone's eye till the protests. Geshe Kelsang really made a huge mistake with the protests. This was his downfall in one way. :( He shouldn't have done it. All the money Geshe Kelsang pumped into protests should have been used in much more beneficial ways.

I am sorry to see this happen to him.  :-[

Seriously the protest has helped indirectly brought international media attention about Dorje Shugden and who Dorje Shugden is. Especially those non-Buddhist. It became global and spread like viral. Now even non-Buddhist knows about Dorje Shugden, they come and ask who is he and they will find out more and when they do... they compare notes, they will clearly see through all the illogical claims and excuses given not to practice Dorje Shugden because he is"EVIL". So evil he is that highly attained Lamas cannot even subdue Him!

The protest was done peacefully but we saw Tibetans being rather rude and vulgar after a "Compassion" teaching HHDL gave in NY. I do not think it has tarnished NKT's reputation one bit, infact I think they have gotten more members from it. The protest in fact made people find out more.   

michaela

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Somehow I feel that the quote highlighted in the Music delighting Oceans of protector really represents what is happening today.