Author Topic: Abortion - ok for the country's good?  (Read 18758 times)

ratanasutra

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2012, 04:13:44 PM »
By action, abortion is killing and of course its negative karma, just the matter of how heavy is depend on the 4 factors. So the father, mother, authorities, dortor and nurse are involve with these negative karma and by law of the karma, they have created a cause to be involved with this situation.

Each countries have laws and regulations to suit with their need in order to develope the country. i don't think it that easy for people to make dicision for this type of law to be used but perhap this is the best for that moment and i do hope that it might change in near future to suit wtih the different needed.

Its similary with the decapitate or electric shock to death for the prisoners in the jail which still using in some of countries, i don't think anyone enjoy doing it.

This is the way to prevent it : to do more good actions, hold vows and collect more merit, it will gurantee that we won't fall into anyone who involve with all this abortion, decaptiate or electric shock to death.
 

   


Tenzin K

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2012, 12:14:44 AM »
Every country wills a certain rules or regulations to protect their country interest. For the Chinese to control the population growth is something that they have studied and considered. There is no wrong for the control but not the action!

Abortion is the same as killing. For one who committed killing will result in rebirth in hells, shortened life as a human being, separation from loved ones, fear and paranoia.

Encouragement towards prevention should be the way. Medically, instead of having the doctors to encourage abortion why not promote sterile for women or vasectomy for male. The government has to make it affordable and some other prevention method.

For couples, they have to take the same consideration too rather than looking for abortion. If spiritual instill in the country, karma being thought more people will realize. By encouraging spiritual learning will also help and is the best for humanity & moral development as a whole.

I’m glad I’m a Buddhist and believe in karma.

biggyboy

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2012, 09:01:42 AM »
Law of cause and effect still prevails on whichever sides.  Be it the unfortunate woman and the authorities.  Having said that, the woman has the choice.  She knew the fact that the authorities allow only one child policy.  Why then she wants to go ahead? She and her partner can take the necessary precautionary measures to avoid the unnecessary abortion and pain (heartaches). 

Ok..chinese cultures and belief is to have a son in the family...so?  Even now she's experiencing the karma to live in China with the one child policy.  I feel sorry for her, with no offence or disrespect for the matter.  For me whether it is a daughter or son, it does not matter now in these present time and age. Both are same, irrespective of the gender.  Any where we go, work or live, there are rules and regulations and laws to follow whether in a country or organisation, even in families too.  How else can we escape such rules or laws?  These are means for one to follow so that it does not go out of hand and to suffer the consequences.


RedLantern

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2012, 12:15:39 PM »
Abortion,because it is seen as taking the life of a foetus,poses a serious moral,spiritual,and personal dilemma. Taking a life,applies to taking a life of a sentient being,a being with consciousness and hence the potential to achieve enlightenment.When making moral choices,individuals should examined their motivation -whether attachment,ignorance,wisdom or compassion-and to weigh the consequences of their actions.Individuals should analized issues carefully for themselves.I feel compelled to take a stand against abortion.

Midakpa

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2012, 02:27:08 PM »
The one-child policy was a country's desperate attempt to control population growth. Because of this policy China will soon be overtaken by India as the country with the largest population in the world. At the moment China is still at the top.

Abortion is practised due to this strict rule. The reason that abortion can be imposed is that most people in China are not religious and are not aware of the law of cause and effect. So does the country collect negative karma because of this policy? The fact is, it is enforcing the one-child policy, not abortion! Abortion is only resorted to when people don't comply with the policy. Unfortunately, there are many cases of infanticide and abortion as a result of such a policy. Who has the most negative karma, the people concerned or the country? This is a very difficult question to answer and I have no answers.

Positive Change

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2012, 02:54:49 PM »
The one-child policy was a country's desperate attempt to control population growth. Because of this policy China will soon be overtaken by India as the country with the largest population in the world. At the moment China is still at the top.

Abortion is practised due to this strict rule. The reason that abortion can be imposed is that most people in China are not religious and are not aware of the law of cause and effect. So does the country collect negative karma because of this policy? The fact is, it is enforcing the one-child policy, not abortion! Abortion is only resorted to when people don't comply with the policy. Unfortunately, there are many cases of infanticide and abortion as a result of such a policy. Who has the most negative karma, the people concerned or the country? This is a very difficult question to answer and I have no answers.

I do like what you said here about the enforcement of the one-child policy and NOT abortion. In a warped sense it kinda makes sense. The Chinese government does give couples a choice... stating that a one-child policy has to be adhered if not there are consequences.

The consequences of course are nothing to be desired. But having said that, such "punishment" is carried out for those who do not comply. So having been born into into a situation where one has to go through such hardships, why create more by not complying?

It is not easy whichever way one slides on this scale.. but if we believe in karma, we just need to wade it out... comply and not create more negative karma and return in less favourable positions...

ilikeshugden

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2012, 01:51:01 AM »
I strongly discourage abortions. Abortions are the taking of one's life which has not even happened yet. When I hear that people who call themselves Buddhist still go for abortions, it makes me lose faith in humanity. Even if the country does not allow you to have more than one child, then have a family plan. There is consciousness in the mind when the baby is just conceived, destruction of one's consciousness is murder, so abortions are murder. In general, it is not okay for an abortion even if it is for the country's good.

Manjushri

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2012, 11:09:03 AM »
I don't think abortion is right. I mean, it was YOUR choice to have pleasurable fun in the first place, and knowing very well the rules and regulations of the one child policy (or for the matter a fact, even if there's no policy), you end a life out of selfishness.Yes it might be true that it is indeed the karma of the parents, and the baby, i.e. the baby has no karma to even live, the parents build on more negative karma for taking a life away, but there was a choice before any action was done. If the consequences were thought about first, then maybe, they should've controlled their desires and a situation like this would not occur. I think karma wise, both parents and authorities would incur negative karma...maybe the parents more I feel.


negra orquida

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2012, 11:59:06 AM »
Quote
So does the country collect negative karma because of this policy? The fact is, it is enforcing the one-child policy, not abortion! Abortion is only resorted to when people don't comply with the policy. Unfortunately, there are many cases of infanticide and abortion as a result of such a policy. Who has the most negative karma, the people concerned or the country?


Great point Midakpa.  It becomes clear that if the people had followed the government's instructions, there would be no need for the abortion of babies.  The cause for infanticide and abortions is the people's own selfishness and lack of care for others / the whole country, and what is a country without people?

On the flip side, there are countries who have trouble maintaining their population count and encourage their people to make babies, e.g. Japan, Europe, Singapore... A shrinking but ageing population comes with a myriad of serious problems as well.  In this case, making babies would benefit the country (at least that is what economists say).  Interesting article here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/population-paradox-europes-time-bomb-888030.html

Does it make sense then to say that such countries' people would have "good karma" if they had kids for the sake of their country's future?

Tammy

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2012, 03:16:15 PM »
Thank you for raising this point.. China's one-child policy had created serious social issues:
(1) population of man in China is far higher than woman (reason stated in 2 below)
(2) Baby girl killed/abandoned - given the limitation of one child per family, countless person (especially in the rural areas) would want a boy to pregnant and have a boy
(3) Child-birth is controlled by 'permit'. Permission to have children valid within a year of issuance date. If the couple fail to gave a child within the validity period of the permit, they have to apply for another permit.
(4) Each state, city, organization is given a limited number of permit each year, each organization has a office keeping a close watch of each women within their organization who is of child-bearing age.
(5) Many baby girls are being adopted by European and American families

Chinese women has only one thing to be aware of (with regards to child-birth) - they have to make sure they do not get pregnant without permit, otherwise, the baby is almost 100% be aborted or be born and raised deep in the inland of china, they would have no identity!

China's government's reason for imposing such one-child is to control the population in China, i do agree such measure has to be in place to prevent overly populated. However, they must not have imagine this seemingly simple policy would lead to serious social problems in and outside of China
Down with the BAN!!!

Rihanna

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2012, 03:38:24 PM »
No matter what is the circumstance of pregnancy, the China women should NEVER abort or let the authority terminate their pregnancy. This is KILLING! If having more than one child means administrative nightmare for the 'extra' child, Chinese women should be extra careful not to get themselves pregnant after having a child. If such 'accidents' occur, they should hide away under the child is born (even though this is almost impossible).




lightning

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2012, 04:27:12 PM »
On the "spiritual"  side, the spirit of the aborted baby will haunt the parents (especially the mother) and create obstacles in their daily lives. These spirits can be appeased through the best method which is the HYT fire puja to transcend them to higher rebirth through qualified Lamas. Such negative karma is very difficult to negate and the kind of trouble the spirits gives are very, very troublesome, depending on how vengeful the spirit is.  If one has enough very good karma, it may act as shield to protect from these external harm temporary until the exhaust of good merit. That is why few may not experience the misfortune yet.

brian

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2012, 07:14:36 AM »
What i get from this is that killing will never be congratulated for having the motivation of country's benefit. What i will do would be to make the parents in China pay more if they are to have more child rather than abortion. At the very least you don't have to kill and the parents make up for the liability that caused the country of this.

Excuse me of my limited knowledge in the economy or fundamental situations in China but at least the government should do something about it rather than just making people kill their own child. I am sure there are a lot more avenues for them to approach this problem.

Jessie Fong

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2012, 12:51:18 PM »
Abortion cannot be good whether for the country or for the parents. How can it be? It's a case of taking a life.  In order to enforce the 1-child per family policy, they could have insisted on the mother having her tubal ligation after the first delivery or get the dad to go for vasectomy.

Like the saying goes .... Prevention is better than cure.  Then no need to suffer the karma.

Klein

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Re: Abortion - ok for the country's good?
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2012, 11:48:07 AM »
Every country wills a certain rules or regulations to protect their country interest. For the Chinese to control the population growth is something that they have studied and considered. There is no wrong for the control but not the action!

Abortion is the same as killing. For one who committed killing will result in rebirth in hells, shortened life as a human being, separation from loved ones, fear and paranoia.

Encouragement towards prevention should be the way. Medically, instead of having the doctors to encourage abortion why not promote sterile for women or vasectomy for male. The government has to make it affordable and some other prevention method.

For couples, they have to take the same consideration too rather than looking for abortion. If spiritual instill in the country, karma being thought more people will realize. By encouraging spiritual learning will also help and is the best for humanity & moral development as a whole.

I’m glad I’m a Buddhist and believe in karma.

I agree with Tenzin K. Killing is karmically very bad no matter how we try to justify. All these problems arise from our desire for sex. Desire is the root problem. However, it will take more time for us to control our desires. Promoting the study and practice of Buddhism will help address this issue in the long run. Invoking Dorje Shugden's assistance to stablise the mind is crucial to expedite this process of letting go of our desires.

Since this will take time, the next best thing for China, is to have preventive measures such as a vasectomy or tubal ligation. There are still chances of the women getting pregnant after these procedures but the chances are very slim.

My message to China is to promote Buddhism especially Dorje Shugden's practice to educate the Chinese on the consequences of one's attachment to desires as a long term project for their 1 child policy!