Author Topic: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne  (Read 13003 times)

DharmaDefender

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Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« on: April 06, 2013, 08:40:10 PM »
Another fantastic article to share with everyone on an explosive event! Thubten Jinpa, the Dalai Lamas personal translator, was seen prostrating to Zemey Rinpoches throne on a recent visit to Gaden.

Everyone knows that Zemey Rinpoche is the author of the infamous Yellow Book that anti-Shugdenites often misquote as evidence about Dorje Shugdens brutality. But do those same people know that the Dalai Lamas own translator is a student of Zemey Rinpoche? That if Thubten Jinpa, the Dalai Lamas translator, is prostrating to Zemey Rinpoches throne, perhaps restrictions are relaxing to the point Thubten Jinpa no longer has an overwhelming fear of being caught?

But does anyone really think that Thubten Jinpa could make it all the way to Zemey Rinpoches throne, and the Dalai Lama NOT find out about it? So why did Thubten Jinpa take the risk of being caught making the prostrations?

From: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/thubten-jinpa-prostrates-to-his-gurus-throne/


Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru's Throne

His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Thupten Jinpa

By: Mar Nee

Anyone who has followed the teachings and travels of H.H. the Dalai Lama in the last few decades would know of Thubten Jinpa, his trusted, devoted and learned translator who has earned much accolade and respect himself.

But behind the scenes of this beautiful, long friendship between the world’s most famous Tibetan Buddhist leader and his translator lies a much sadder tale of how Thubten Jinpa himself has long suffered a grave separation from his root Guru, H.E. Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche.

First, a short trip down history to understand how these three key figures of the Tibetan Buddhist world have become so intricately entwined within one of the biggest spiritual controversies of today.


Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche – the Dalai Lama’s confidante

H.E. Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche

The previous incarnation of H.E. Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche was so highly respected within the Tibetan Buddhist world, that he was considered equal to masters like H.H. Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. He was known for being one of the two heart disciples of H.H. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche (the other being Zong Rinpoche), a very highly recognized tulku, an established scholar of the highest caliber within the Ganden tradition and a sought-after teacher. Throughout his life, Zemey Rinpoche had hundreds of students and gave teachings to Sangha from across all major Gelug monasteries; he was so renowned that monks of Drepung and Sera Monasteries would travel long distances across Tibet just to attend his teachings in Ganden Monastery.

Not only was Zemey Rinpoche highly respected within the monasteries, but he also enjoyed a very close relationship with the Dalai Lama, so much so that he was specially selected to be a part of the Dalai Lama’s entourage to travel to Beijing in the 1950s. This visit was at the invitation of the Chinese government, who wished to enter talks with the Tibetan government about Tibet joining China. Included within this entourage were the Dalai Lama’s tutors Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Ling Rinpoche, the Panchen Lama, the Dalai Lama’s mother and of course, Zemey Rinpoche. We must note that this was at a time when there were over 400 tulkus and a population of over 1,500 monks in Ganden Shartse Monastery. For Zemey Rinpoche to have been specially chosen to escort and advice the Dalai Lama. The fact that Zemey Rinpoche was so deeply trusted to attend such a significant event is evidence that the spiritual leader himself held him in extremely high regard.

Zemey Rinpoche was also among the very tightly knit group that accompanied the Dalai Lama on his long and perilous escape out of Tibet into India in 1959. When they arrived in India and lived temporarily in Buxa with the rest of the Tibetan exiled community, Zemey Rinpoche continued to teach abundantly; so broad was his knowledge that he taught not only on Dharma but also the most fundamental and important aspects of grammar, Tibetan writing, reading and philosophy. Following this period in Buxa, Zemey Rinpoche then joined the courageous community of monks and high lamas who personally rebuilt Ganden Monastery with their own bare hands in South India. This monastery continues to stand strong today with over 3,000 monks.


The Yellow Book

The entourage that accompanied the Dalai Lama to Beijing. Zemey Rinpoche (in red) is standing in the third row from the front

As one of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s closest disciples, Zemey Rinpoche often received many direct and personal teachings from this incredible master, known for being one of the most significant lineage holders and teachers of the Gelug lineage. At one time, Trijang Rinpoche taught and explained how the protector Dorje Shugden had ‘killed’ some lamas who were potentially damaging the teachings of the Gelug lineage. A private manuscript of these teachings leaked out in the form of what has become known as the Yellow Book, which incited a tremendous amount of anger from various factions of the Tibetan Buddhist world.

While this book has been the single and most commonly quoted source to ‘prove’ the harmful, sectarian nature of Dorje Shugden, it is important to understand the gross misunderstanding that has arisen over the years from these private teachings. What Trijang Rinpoche had explained was not to be taken literally – about Dorje Shugden destroying lamas who took teachings from other sects. It was not meant to denigrate the teachings and practices of other traditions in any way. Rather, the teaching was about how Dorje Shugden was protecting the Gelug lineage from potentially being damaged by practitioners from within the Gelug school.

Sadly, however, Zemey Rinpoche never had the opportunity to convey the true meaning of the teachings and the manuscript that he had composed. After the Dalai Lama read the Yellow Book, he started talking against the practice of Dorje Shugden and gave up his own personal practice of this protector. It was around this time that he was supposed to receive the empowerment into Dorje Shugden’s practice (sogtae) but changed his mind at the last minute. Practitioners from other sects also began to react adversely. Some of the Nyingmas especially, became very upset with the Gelugpas. Incited by some of the high lamas of their sect, Nyingma practitioners began creating chakras and writing texts against Dorje Shugden; they also modified images of their Protector Dorje Drolo to be shown stamping upon Dorje Shugden which never existed before.

When the Dalai Lama enquired after the author of this book, he was told that it was Zemey Rinpoche. From that moment onwards, all contact with Zemey Rinpoche was completely severed. The Dalai Lama announced that he would never speak to Zemey Rinpoche again, questioning how he could write texts that were so sectarian and went against the Nyingma tradition. True to his word, the Dalai Lama never spoke to Zemey Rinpoche again; all of Zemey Rinpoche’s sincerest requests for audience were denied. From that time onwards, Ganden, Sera, Drepung and Tashi Lhunpo Monasteries, and the Tibetan government proclaimed Zemey Rinpoche to be a very bad lama and he was publicly ostracized and despised.

Zemey Rinpoche was thence prohibited from attending any teachings that the Dalai Lama gave at Ganden, Sera and Drepung Monasteries. As bodyguards stood outside the teaching hall to stop him from entering, Zemey Rinpoche would stand outside – come rain or shine – prostrating for the entire duration of the teaching as a request for forgiveness from the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama never acknowledged him.

In 1974, Zemey Rinpoche retired from public life and entered a period of semi-retreat in the Tibetan settlement of Bylakuppe, Mysore, South India. Four years later, he re-entered public life and moved his permanent residence to Ganden Monastery in Mundgod. There, he taught extensively and also wrote prolifically. Rinpoche also travelled widely during this time, in response to requests for him to teach in the various Tibetan communities in India and Nepal.

Tragedy struck in 1984, when Rinpoche suffered a stroke while on tour in North India. Though unable to speak, Rinpoche supervised the compilation and editing of all six volumes of his collected works, while leading a retired life at his residence at Ganden Monastery. Zemey Rinpoche entered into clear light in 1996, amidst many auspicious signs.

True to all highly attained beings, Zemey Rinpoche has reincarnated back in Tibet, right next to his own monastery of his previous life – Yangding Monastery. High lamas throughout India, Nepal and Tibet have confirmed that this is the unmistaken incarnation of Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche.


Thubten Jinpa – A Very Special Student

Thubten Jinpa, H.H. the Dalai Lama’s translator

Among the many, many students whom Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche had taught throughout his lifetime, there was one very special boy he took under his wing. A young monk by the name of Thubten Jinpa was studying in a monastery in Bylakuppe, South India, when Zemey Rinpoche visited this monastery. There, upon meeting Thubten Jinpa, Zemey Rinpoche recognized him as a special child and requested for the boy to come with him to Ganden to study. Thubten Jinpa agreed and moved into Zemey Ladrang in Ganden Monastery.

Thubten Jinpa continued to study in Ganden for many years, also receiving teachings from other esteemed masters there such as H.E. Lati Rinpoche and H.E. Kensur Jampa Yeshe Rinpoche. He taught himself English until he perfected the language, and successfully obtained a degree at Cambridge University. Eventually, he moved to Canada, returned his monk vows and became a personal translator to the Dalai Lama.

Thubten Jinpa is very often by the Dalai Lama’s side, translating for him during teachings, meetings and talks

The Dalai Lama studied under Ling Rinpoche (of Drepung Loseling Monastery) and Trijang Rinpoche (of Ganden Shartse Monastery); Thubten Jinpa studied under Zemey Rinpoche (a close student of Trijang Rinpoche and of the Ganden Shartse lineage). As such, they both share the same lineage, practices, teachings and monastic education system – mainly the texts of Panchen Sonam Drakpa which are studied by all monks of Ganden Shartse and Drepung Loseling Monasteries. Thubten Jinpa was an ideal translator for the Dalai Lama, as he understood the many intricacies of the Dalai Lama’s teachings and initiations. He went on to serve His Holiness for many years, both as an interpreter at live teachings as well as a translator of books.

Thubten Jinpa continues to enjoy a very close relationship with the Dalai Lama to this day. This means that he has also been close to and around the Dalai Lama throughout the time that the ban against Dorje Shugden was being implemented and spoken about frequently. He would most certainly have been near the Dalai Lama at the time that accusations were being leveled against Zemey Rinpoche – Thubten Jinpa’s own root Guru – for being sectarian and creating schism. He would have been around to hear the Dalai Lama speak strongly and incessantly about just how disappointed he was in Zemey Rinpoche, how heartbroken he was and how he would never speak to him again.

Zemey Ladrang in Ganden, south India

Imagine how painful and difficult it must have been for Thubten Jinpa to listen to the Dalai Lama – the supreme spiritual head of all Tibetan Buddhists – speaking about his own dearest root Guru in this way and to cut off all contact with him. It would naturally have followed that Thubten Jinpa himself – in serving the Dalai Lama – would have been forbidden to associate with or see his own teacher, Zemey Rinpoche. Suddenly, all contact would have been severed. This was the very same predicament that thousands of practitioners the world over would have found themselves in – having to choose one teacher over another, and/or never being able to see their teachers again within that lifetime, because to do so would be tantamount to treason against the Dalai Lama.

Interestingly enough, it was Zemey Rinpoche who had instructed Thubten Jinpa to serve the Dalai Lama, for all the years that Zemey Rinpoche was not allowed to see or contact the Dalai Lama. More surprisingly, the Dalai Lama accepted Thubten Jinpa as his translator, especially knowing that he was a close disciple of Zemey Rinpoche, the very lama that the Dalai Lama now shunned. This brings up a strange contradiction: Why would the Dalai Lama allow such a close associate of the ‘enemy’ to be within such close proximity to him, privy to so many of his most significant, intimate teachings and dealings?

In spite of all this, Thubten Jinpa continued to serve the Dalai Lama for many years as his faithful translator, even travelling great distances with His Holiness for many teachings and initiations. Throughout all these years, Thubten Jinpa never openly returned to Zemey Ladrang, the home and official seat of his root Guru. It was as if Zemey Rinpoche had never been a part of Ganden Monastery.

Ironic as it may seem, this loyalty to the Dalai Lama was a result of Thubten Jinpa’s unwavering, strong devotion to Zemey Rinpoche; he continued to serve the Dalai Lama precisely because it was Zemey Rinpoche’s instruction to him. The obvious tragedy of this situation can only be seen as incredibly painful and unnecessary.


How Thubten Jinpa Never Forgot His Guru

In recent times, there was great news in December 2012 about the Dalai Lama travelling to Ganden Monastery to give teachings to the monastic community there. Thubten Jinpa also attended as a part of the Dalai Lama’s entourage.

However, this visit was marked by an event of great significance, making it a little different from previous visits. During these few days in Ganden, Thubten Jinpa was seen going to Zemey Ladrang and prostrating to his Guru, Zemey Rinpoche’s throne. Considering that it would have been seen as traitorous to associate in any way with Zemey Rinpoche, going to his ladrang and prostrating to his throne was a very bold and courageous statement to make.

This single act of prostrating to his Guru’s throne is not just about a few prostrations, but reveals many highly significant developments, particularly for the practice of Dorje Shugden:

(1) It shows that in spite of all the slanderous comments and accusations against his Guru all these decades, Thubten Jinpa still maintains strong faith in Zemey Rinpoche.

Unlike many who have cut off contact with their teachers, declaring that they are wrong and engaging in incorrect, harmful practices, Thubten Jinpa still believes in his teacher and has not wavered in his devotion. For him to prostrate to Zemey Rinpoche’s throne – a clear practice of humility and submission to the teacher – is to say that he still believes in his Guru. He effectively says that Zemey Rinpoche was never wrong in his practices and teachings.

(2) The act of prostrating implies that Thubten Jinpa does not think that Zemey Rinpoche was wrong in his practice of Dorje Shugden.

(3) Most of all, it shows that Thubten Jinpa is not afraid to show respect to his teacher. He is willing to brave the possible consequences of setting foot into a known Dorje Shugden lama’s ladrang, particularly one that is so explicitly ‘banned’ by the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government. And yet, he continued to do so even in the near presence of the Dalai Lama himself.

Even more surprisingly, the Dalai Lama never said anything about this – an act that would surely be seen as both defiant and disloyal – which he must have known about. For someone to even enter premises that are related to Dorje Shugden practitioners is tantamount to going against the instruction of the Dalai Lama. Yet Thubten Jinpa was not at all reprimanded: after all, he not only entered one of the most ‘controversial’ Dorje Shugden’s lamas’ home but also prostrated towards the throne, the most central, significant part of the ladrang.

Could the Dalai Lama really be relaxing his stance on Dorje Shugden?

Could it be that the Dalai Lama really is going to stop condemning Dorje Shugden and his practitioners, as he said he would? As recent developments have shown, the Dalai Lama has also seemed to be relaxing his tone when speaking about Dorje Shugden and the ban. Now, when one of the closest members of the Dalai Lama’s entourage is seen to so openly enter the ladrang of such a controversial Dorje Shugden lama, his visit is allowed to pass with no consequences. It does seem, after all, that the Dalai Lama is beginning to allow people to make their own choices, as he has mentioned before in a speech. We are optimistic that more and more windows of opportunity are opening up for the practice of Dorje Shugden to finally be freed. It is the very least that we could hope for, as a dedication to incredible lamas like Zemey Rinpoche who devoted their entire lives not just to teaching Dharma in general but also, in particular, to spreading Dorje Shugden’s blessed lineage.

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Further reading:

Biography of Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche
Zemey Rinpoche’s Incarnation Receives DS Initiation
Enthronement Ceremony of the Zemey Rinpoche’s Incarnation

dsiluvu

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 09:23:08 PM »
Oh my gawwwdddd when I read this Thubten Jinpa's story and what his Guru, H.H. Zemey Rinpoche's story and what he had to go through... you cannot help but tear. But at the same time a thought at the back of my head keeps telling me that, these two highly attained Lamas are manifesting something that is beyond our comprehension.

Imagine also the difficult, the psychology of Thubten Jinpa and what he had to go through day in day out when His Holiness criticizes his Gurur; Zemey Rinpoche. How would we have hold this up? How would our minds handle this circumstances. I think I would have gone mad! And the fantastic part Thubten Jinpa was doing all this out of his Guru's instruction. Now if Zemey really did what he did and was not such a horrible Lama, then why did he send his own student to go assist HHDL?

vajratruth

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 09:35:34 PM »
If you watched enough videos of the 14th Dalai Lama giving teachings all over the world, you would also be familiar with the figure of Thubten Jinpa, His Holiness's official translator. I am quite sure that every time the Dalai Lama looks at Thubten Jinpa His Holiness would also remember Zemey Rinpoche. It would be hard not to remember Zemey Rinpoche, who was so close to the Dalai Lama. Even Thubteb Jinpa's allegiance to the Dalai Lama was at the behest of Zemey Rinpoche as we know now because he has disclosed by his visit to his Guru's throne, that he has always been loyal to Zemey Rinpoche.

Recently, there have been so many positive signs for the growth of the Dorje Shugden practice including the Dalai Lama himself stating that His Holiness will no longer discredit Dorje Shugden in public; the return of Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, openly teaching the practice; and now Thubten Jinpa openly declaring his loyalty to Zemey Rinpoche who was ostracized by the Dalai Lama.

Beyond being "unafraid" of repercussions to his personal self, I doubt if Thubten Jinpa would also wish to paint the Dalai Lama in a ridiculous light which His Holiness might be if someone so close to him would openly defy his wishes. Therefore I am suspecting that behind doors, perhaps the Dalai Lama himself is sounding positive towards the Shugden lamas or there are signs that the ban might be a thing of the past soon.

Ensapa

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 04:53:55 AM »
If you watched enough videos of the 14th Dalai Lama giving teachings all over the world, you would also be familiar with the figure of Thubten Jinpa, His Holiness's official translator. I am quite sure that every time the Dalai Lama looks at Thubten Jinpa His Holiness would also remember Zemey Rinpoche. It would be hard not to remember Zemey Rinpoche, who was so close to the Dalai Lama. Even Thubteb Jinpa's allegiance to the Dalai Lama was at the behest of Zemey Rinpoche as we know now because he has disclosed by his visit to his Guru's throne, that he has always been loyal to Zemey Rinpoche.

Recently, there have been so many positive signs for the growth of the Dorje Shugden practice including the Dalai Lama himself stating that His Holiness will no longer discredit Dorje Shugden in public; the return of Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, openly teaching the practice; and now Thubten Jinpa openly declaring his loyalty to Zemey Rinpoche who was ostracized by the Dalai Lama.

Beyond being "unafraid" of repercussions to his personal self, I doubt if Thubten Jinpa would also wish to paint the Dalai Lama in a ridiculous light which His Holiness might be if someone so close to him would openly defy his wishes. Therefore I am suspecting that behind doors, perhaps the Dalai Lama himself is sounding positive towards the Shugden lamas or there are signs that the ban might be a thing of the past soon.

Definitely for sure all of these are signs that the ban on Dorje Shudgen will be lifted very soon, sooner than we expect it to be. But what amazed me was really Thutben Jinpa's prostration to the Guru's throne. I'm not too sure exactly if that is a good or a bad thing because the actual prostration to the Guru in his case would be to try and clear up his Guru's name, to me that is a more meaningful and practical prostration as opposed to a physical one on an empty throne. So I have mixed feelings about him prostrating, after all it was him releasing the yellow book that sparked the insecurities of the other traditions.

dsiluvu

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 05:45:58 AM »
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Zemey Rinpoche was thence prohibited from attending any teachings that the Dalai Lama gave at Ganden, Sera and Drepung Monasteries. As bodyguards stood outside the teaching hall to stop him from entering, Zemey Rinpoche would stand outside – come rain or shine – prostrating for the entire duration of the teaching as a request for forgiveness from the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama never acknowledged him.
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If you think about it... For every teaching that the Dalai Lama gave... Holy Lama like Zemey Rinpoche did prostration outside in the dirt while his students were inside the teachings. Who would have such a strong kind of practice and could do this. To me this was most inspiring thing that moved me to believe... true highly attained beings exist and is real! These are the kind of stories that you will not hear the CTA talk about. This truth is something the world will not know if we do not tell.
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As one of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s closest disciples, Zemey Rinpoche often received many direct and personal teachings from this incredible master, known for being one of the most significant lineage holders and teachers of the Gelug lineage. At one time, Trijang Rinpoche taught and explained how the protector Dorje Shugden had ‘killed’ some lamas who were potentially damaging the teachings of the Gelug lineage. A private manuscript of these teachings leaked out in the form of what has become known as the Yellow Book, which incited a tremendous amount of anger from various factions of the Tibetan Buddhist world.

While this book has been the single and most commonly quoted source to ‘prove’ the harmful, sectarian nature of Dorje Shugden, it is important to understand the gross misunderstanding that has arisen over the years from these private teachings. What Trijang Rinpoche had explained was not to be taken literally – about Dorje Shugden destroying lamas who took teachings from other sects. It was not meant to denigrate the teachings and practices of other traditions in any way. Rather, the teaching was about how Dorje Shugden was protecting the Gelug lineage from potentially being damaged by practitioners from within the Gelug school.
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I do not believe that His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche would quote such things for Zemey Rinpoche to write down in this yellow book to create sectarianism. How can a Boddhisattva ever do such a thing? So we must THINK deeper... and definitely it was to meant to encourage practitioners to stay "pure and true" to their lineage and not to pollute the teachings which may confused many more practitioners. Surely it is to curb certain practitioners who may have wrong motives to use it to create their own tainted ways to gain for themselves. Whatever the case is, despite what has happened Zemey Rinpoche never once retaliated and He tried hard to explain to His Holiness but this chance was not granted. So does this mean His Holiness is bad and unreasonable? Or should we think Chnerezig was manifesting something that will potentially create a much bigger impact... hence we here talking about this TODAY?!

If we see that these high beings  are enlightened beings, then all this dramas manifested seem to be more positive then negative, I say this because, if everything was fine and peaceful... I do not think the activity, growth and fame that has been created through the ban, on Dorje Shugden would be what it is today. The results of it is something we can use to check... the cause and the effect. Yes agree along the way many have suffered and have "sacrificed" for this ban... but weighing it to the amount of people who is benefiting now and in the future because of this ban, the very fact that so many more monasteries are coming up in Tibet and around the world, outweighs the bad. I see it like a huge purification process happening for the huge potential Dorje Shugden practice will bring to the world. I remember Lamas saying the bigger the potential or the good of something, the harder we need to work for it, and the bigger the obstacles we will encounter. But if we are firm and we push forth then we will gain the victory in the end, because the potential in benefiting others is tremendously huge.  Now is certainly the time for Dorje Shugden practice to rise and spread again!

dondrup

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 10:54:51 AM »
Reading about Thubten Jinpa reminds me of Samdhong Rinpoche.  Both Thupten Jinpa and Samdhong Rinpoche are very devoted to their respective root gurus.  And both their predicaments are very similar too!  It must have been very difficult for Thubten Jinpa to serve HH Dalai Lama all these years.  His root guru Zemey Rinpoche was ostracised and despised by the Tibetan government, the Gelug Monasteries and the Tibetan public!  And Thubten Jinpa cannot be physically near his root guru! 

The fact that Thubten Jinpa had prostrated to Zemey Rinpoche’s throne despite the risk of being caught doing so, proves that Thubten Jinpa is still loyal and devoted to his root guru! Thubten Jinpa's loyalty, devotion and 'sacrifice' must be commended!

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 11:48:07 AM »
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His root guru Zemey Rinpoche was ostracised (sic) and despised by the Tibetan government, the Gelug Monasteries and the Tibetan public!  And Thubten Jinpa cannot be physically near his root guru!


This is actually not true. He was not 'despised' by 'the Gelug monasteries' etc. He fell out of favor, but that is a far cry from despised. He still had many requests to teach, both at his own monastery, Shartse, and other monasteries.

Also, Thubten Jinpa was with Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche until the end. He supervised and edited Rinpoche's collected works and was with him just weeks before Rinpoche passed into clear light.

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 11:50:44 AM »


Zemey Ladrang in Ganden, south India

 :)

 

lotus1

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 05:55:01 PM »
This is really very interesting news. How would HH Dalai Lama let Thubten Jinpa to Zemey’s Ladrang since H.E. Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche is known to practice Dorje Shugden? 

In fact, I am rejoicing to see that Thubten Jinpa is able to prostrate to his Guru, H.E. Kyabje Zemey’s Rinpoche’s throne. This shows so much Guru devotions that he has towards his Guru.

All these would only be logical that both the lamas are for a bigger picture. Truly hope that the ban will be lifted soonest!

Ensapa

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 03:24:47 AM »
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His root guru Zemey Rinpoche was ostracised (sic) and despised by the Tibetan government, the Gelug Monasteries and the Tibetan public!  And Thubten Jinpa cannot be physically near his root guru!


This is actually not true. He was not 'despised' by 'the Gelug monasteries' etc. He fell out of favor, but that is a far cry from despised. He still had many requests to teach, both at his own monastery, Shartse, and other monasteries.

Also, Thubten Jinpa was with Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche until the end. He supervised and edited Rinpoche's collected works and was with him just weeks before Rinpoche passed into clear light.

Hmm...so he fell out of favor, but why is it that he stopped teaching when it was near his death? Also, if Thutben Jinpa was really that devoted, why was the Yellow Book translated out of context, and then started the Dorje Shugden ban? He could have stopped its circulation since he is literally the author/transcriber of the teachings and/or add more explanation and make sure that it is within context so that people do not misunderstand. There are 2 Nyingma books that were written to counter the yellow book, and one of them is called  "The Rain of Adamant Fire. A holy discourse based upon scriptures and reason, annihilating the poisonous seeds of the wicked speech of Dzeme Trulku Lobsang Palden by the old nyingmapa hermit Chatral Sangyey Dorje." and boooooooy is that a sectarian title.

If the Yellow Book was not published, the ban would not have happened, and of course, Zemey Rinpoche would not have been subjected to such defamations.

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 05:19:54 AM »
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If the Yellow Book was not published, the ban would not have happened,

This is completely false.

You are buying into the hype. There is much more to this story than one text. 

vajratruth

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 06:06:21 AM »
Quote
If the Yellow Book was not published, the ban would not have happened,

This is completely false.

You are buying into the hype. There is much more to this story than one text.

Dear Losang Tenpa,

It would benefit many people if you could share whatever you know about the story. The more people know, the more we all understand and ultimately the goal is to be able to serve the Dharma better. So please do let us have your take on this, to whatever extent you can.

Thank you.

DharmaDefender

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 05:51:23 PM »
Oh my gawwwdddd when I read this Thubten Jinpa's story and what his Guru, H.H. Zemey Rinpoche's story and what he had to go through... you cannot help but tear. But at the same time a thought at the back of my head keeps telling me that, these two highly attained Lamas are manifesting something that is beyond our comprehension.

Imagine also the difficult, the psychology of Thubten Jinpa and what he had to go through day in day out when His Holiness criticizes his Gurur; Zemey Rinpoche. How would we have hold this up? How would our minds handle this circumstances. I think I would have gone mad! And the fantastic part Thubten Jinpa was doing all this out of his Guru's instruction. Now if Zemey really did what he did and was not such a horrible Lama, then why did he send his own student to go assist HHDL?

Felt pretty much the same way. Ive been replaying in my head the image of Zemey Rinpoche prostrating again and again on the periphery of the Dalai Lamas teachings. So inspiring and upsetting all at the same time... Im inspired to imitate Zemey Rinpoches guru devotion and humility, and upset that circumstances reduced this great lama to a state where he was treated with less consideration than what our councils bid us to sort out our recyclables with.

Its this kind of mistreatment of the lamas that really bothers me. Already the number of lamas from that great generation who fled Tibet are whittling down, and yet Tibetan society continues to treat the remainder like dirt so as long as they dont conform to the deluded laypersons view of what is right and wrong. Disturbing.

Ensapa

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 04:35:43 AM »
Quote
If the Yellow Book was not published, the ban would not have happened,

This is completely false.

You are buying into the hype. There is much more to this story than one text.

Hmm? this is interesting. There has been many documents and writeups regarding the ban and how it started, and the more neutral ones usually point to the Yellow Book as the source of the ban, and there were even very nasty rebuttal books that were written to counter the Yellow Book and Dorje Shugden (one of them can be seen in my earlier post, and it even defames Zemey Rinpoche). It would be interesting if you could give us another dimension of the ban because these days research papers can contain falsities or that they are ill researched. It would be nice to hear what  happened from your side coz then we would have a bigger picture of the whole issue.

vajrastorm

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Re: Thubten Jinpa Prostrates to his Guru’s Throne
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 08:56:42 AM »
Thank you, Losang_Tenpa, for the heartening news that Thubten Jinpa was with his beloved Guru, Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche until the end. Also the lovely news that he had supervised and edited Zemey Rinpoche's collected works and was with him just weeks before Rinpoche passed away.

This piece of news makes the Bigger Picture even more important to focus on. Why did HH Dalai Lama allow Thubten Jinpa to be with Zemey Rinpoche(with whom the Dalai Lama had severed ties over the Yellow
Book)  and to supervise and edit Zemey Rinpoche's collected works? Why did the Dalai Lama allow Thubten Jimpa to prostrate to his Guru's throne? Why did he even except or continue to accept, as his trusted translator, the close student of his enemy?

Going back even further, as Chenrezig, how could he not have known that Kyabje Zemey would one day 'betray' his trust by writing a 'sectarian' book? How can an Enlightened manifestation of Chenrezig hug close to his chest someone he considered as worthy of his trust one moment, and the next minute severe ties with him over a book(more puzzling indeed when Zemey Rinpoche had merely recorded down what Trijang Rinpoche,the Dalai Lama's tutor and root guru, had taught him privately)?

So yes, every sign is there to show that there is a big picture.