Author Topic: Forum back  (Read 28139 times)

a friend

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Forum back
« on: July 01, 2010, 04:08:32 AM »

Well, the Forum is back.
As unexpectedly as it was gone.
I thank you dear friend Administrator for bringing the Forum back. But please, don't close it again! And also, I'm sure that many would be very happy if you could participate in the discussions. If you prefer not to do it, it would be very useful that you be so kind as to give some rules that are explicit. We do have the old advice of the Forum: We promote and value HARMONY. Please do not post anything negative about any lamas, sects, deities or anyone.   But the word "negative" is quite general and can have any number of connotations. It would be useful for everybody to know what exactly made you close the Forum and to state which are the things that you are not ready to tolerate in the future.

About the Guestbook, I ask the writers of several pages of insults, many of whom are not even members of the Forum, what is the gain of hatred? What is the gain of judging actions that you don't understand?

I'm sorry Mohani for the spate of hatred that you received for your innocent and sensible action of creating another Forum. They should've rejoiced for one more space where people can talk about our Deity. Instead of that they called you and others thiefs and traitors !!!

Do you know the meaning of those words? This is quite typical. To accuse the innocent while ...
But better to stop here. Anyway, I guess that we will have to start afresh. Yeah, the sowers of hatred are my best Mahayana teachers, thank you for reminding me that in the unaccountable beginningless life times I surely did onto others what you did onto us ...

But still, next time at least try to find out what's going on before starting to throw stones.
I love you all.


cleojean

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 07:47:34 AM »
Dear Friend, I think we reserve the right to exercise our judgement based on what Mohani and gang wanted to do. I do not find it ethical at all. I do not believe I cast an unfair stone. I am merely expressing my dislike for their means and ways. So, I have taken the liberty to re-post what you wrote to Samayatree. So, please read and follow your own advice and allow others to exercise theirs. I believe everyone stated very clearly why they did not approve of what Mohani and gang wanted to do. It can't be that everyone has the same feeling. I could be wrong and a whole lot of others could be wrong, then you alone would be right, I guess. In any case, I am simply stating "I am not a fan".
 Thank you and I sincerely hope that you do love us all. That would be comforting to know.

Much care and happiness to you.

(your own post to samayatree)
Dear Samayatree, you don't need to be enlightened to judge. Actually you are required to judge, all the time. Required as a practitioner. You need to ponder and judge actions and results following the advice of Lord Buddha. This is the basis of the Buddhadharma. The matter that is exclusive object of the Buddha's mind is the actual results of karma in every one and all beings, the intricacy of that extraordinary "computer" where no action is lost ... that, yes, only an enlightened mind can follow.
But you, like all of us, need to judge the Lamas, particularly if you are thinking of taking them as "your" Lama. This is a requirement.
And by implication one needs to be clear in the judgement of somebody who can become the Lama of new people seeking Dharma. They will need also to judge the candidate. So if you are not a fan of the DL's ways and means say it, and in a logical, clear Dharma way, in accord with conventional reality, stating your good Dharma reasons for your "not being a fan".

Mohani

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 09:12:45 AM »
Thanks.

thaimonk

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 11:49:10 AM »
Dear a friend,

Thank you for moderating this forum, I have been observing during the past few days when the forum is closed and I would like to share my opinion:

As a moderator, I request you to refrain from differentiating between the oldies and the newbies, both can contribute equally well to the forum so there shouldn't be such differentiation.

Also, you have to stop siding with people you are in contact with, or your friends in forum. A moderator should be unbiased, then you will gain even more authority and respect as a moderator.

thanks.

thaimonk

a friend

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of newbies and oldies
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2010, 03:47:42 PM »

Dear Thaimonk,

The only moderation I do consists on deleting posts from electronic intruders. I do not moderate what people say in the Forum (with the exception of Thom, but I don't do it as moderator, simply as a friend).
All the rest I post is my opinion.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity, though, to expand on the oldies and newbies matter. It's a fact that this Forum radically changed when we had in January a flock of new people all sharing a common view: that the views of the older people of this Forum was wrong, and theirs, right. Since this is a debatable question, no problem, it has been debated and will continue to be debated.

Together with the new blood that should be always welcome came a new element, though, or a collection of new elements, that many cannot appreciate because they were not here before, and the gist of the matter consists precisely in the difference between old and new.
Today emotions run high, reasons are taken as insults, some judge the practice of others based on their participation on the Forum, for the first time people gang up many against one person ... And just right now, in the last few hours, in the post just close to yours, people dare judge the ethics of the Forum participants. This never, ever happened before. Heavens know that we had heated discussions in the past, even outbursts of anger, which are natural. But never such tensions nor hostility. The old Forum was a better place to "live" in. The secret is that we were all friends, I guess.

Since we didn’t insult members of the Forum, since we didn’t  gang up against a member of the Forum, since we didn’t  judge the ethics of a member of the Forum, since it didn’t occur to us to judge the religious practice of a member of the Forum, then what’s left? That the new majority of the members of this Forum (with happy few exceptions) dislikes our views.

To dislike the views of others is not the best of feelings, it produces all of the above. It’s preferable to disagree and to give reasons. This constant turning debatable matters into personal fights it’s tiresome, sterile and is giving this new athmosphere of hostility and suspicion that I truly regret because it does not benefit anybody. This Forum used to be a gem. I would like the new people to enjoy that same athmosphere that we had before, relaxed, friendly, and very interesting because we were constantly debating different and opposed points of view.

So this is all it is about oldies and newbies. It’s not about different views, it’s about a different way to be together.

Now, I don’t wish just to point to problems without giving a solution.

This is a difficult thing to do, because of course all of those that fit the description above are going to be angry with me, and it’s understandable. And it's a well known fact that younger people don't like to be given unsolicited advice by old people like me.   I just beg you to forgive me the pointing out of the differences, it’s just this once and I do it not to defy anybody, just to try to create a new awareness that will make our relationships here more pleasant.

The only “recipe” that occurs to me is to try to establish a rule: LET’S ONLY GIVE OPINIONS ABOUT THE VIEWS OF OTHERS, WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE PERSON EXPRESSING THE VIEW. Like for instance, let’s say that I disagree with Loneranger about the brochures. In this case I should talk only about the brochures, not about Loneranger. Not telling him you’re wrong, or you’re not enthousiast enough, or you don’t truly love the Protector, etc. Instead, “the brochures are good for such and such reasons, and to oppose them, even if it’s anybody’s right, might harm for such and such reasons”. Something like that.

I love you all.
Dear newbies, I love you all, and I wish we could become friends.
 

Helena

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2010, 04:03:57 PM »
Dear A Friend, you have always been very eloquent and articulate, as seen very clearly from the way you write your posts. From reading your posts, you do seem to carry a 'high quality' heart, for the lack of a better word. But adverse reactions do not arise from no where. There cannot be smoke without fire, and it is not just from one person. There are many comments. I shall not waste anyone's time to go into what's right or not right and I shall not recount what sparked this whole deluge of remarks - it is not worth the space this precious website/forum is created for. If you are truly sincere as you say and do love us all, then please do show just that. If you do, it will be FELT BY ALL - NOT JUST NEWBIES OR OLDIES. IT WOULD BE THE SAME EFFECT FELT BY ALL. As always, I really appreciate words that help me understand more and words that challenge me to seek higher knowledge - but not just cleverly crafted words just to challenge people or to merely justify just how right and wonderful a person is or is not. Those gifted with the power to use words, should use that gift to create more harmony and more understanding with love for all - equanimity. You have that gift, and that is a beautiful gift. Let's hope your love truly shines through your every word. I have no intention to offend you in any way with mine. I hope that you take it as advice from a friend. Thank you.
Helena

a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 04:16:56 PM »
Quote
There cannot be smoke without fire, and it is not just from one person. There are many comments.


Precisely, precisely. This is what we never did before. Gang up against other members of the Forum.
I wish people would stop doing that, going against other persons.

Love cannot be felt by all ... if this were true, then we all in all worlds would fall to our knees feeling the incomparable love that the Buddhas have for us sentient beings.

So before people become mature enough to "feel" the love of others, whether from the Buddhas or from ordinary beings, I suggest that we follow some rules. Like the one I suggest, that we only discuss views and not go against people.


Helena

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2010, 04:26:12 PM »
That is a good start - let's discuss the topics and share more info on the topics and also, PLEASE REFRAIN from teaching people how to write or speak in a clear logical manner. Are we holding a writing class here or what? Be a real friend and use your knowledge to build understanding and friendship. We need that and you have the gift of speech. So, please. Thank you.
Helena

a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 04:48:52 PM »
Quote
teaching people how to write or speak in a clear logical manner



 :D  :D  :D
This is a new one. First time I've been accused of trying to be an English teacher.

Anyway, it's true that in general I try to convince people that they should use Dharma logic, it does not matter good or bad English. My Lamas didn't speak perfect English but their logic was razor like sharp.

Logic is the backbone of our lineage. Two of the Six Ornaments are logicians. Actually two have the title of logicians, but you certainly can count more than two among them. This clearly points to the unavoidable need to use Dharma logic.


Helena

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 04:56:28 PM »
 :) I respect your wealth of knowledge, for sure, and now, I am beginning to appreciate your sense of humour. I hope I have found a new friend in here, at last  :)
Helena

Helena

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 04:59:15 PM »
I forgot to add - please do share how you use Dharma Logic - I'd like that very much. Especially when you are going to show me your case against HH DL. I'd like to see the different perspectives presented through Dharma Logic. Thanking you in advance.  :)
Helena

a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2010, 05:06:13 PM »

I'll try to do that.
Can I suggest that you read some book on Logic?
Kadampas, please, what's the name of Geshela's book on Logic?

Samayatree, let me look for titles, I can't do it while I write here. I'll be back with them.

Of course you have found a friend here ... didn't you see my name?  :D
Hey, no joking, of course I am your friend.


Helena

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2010, 05:12:29 PM »
No worries, A Friend. About spreading the concept of friendship in here, I think when you loosen up like this, everybody can feel your friendship vibes. Not joking either. Let's spread the LOVE and hopefully, it can go all the way to Dharamsala TGIE! I am going to be logging off soon but if you don't mind, please start a new thread whereby we can all learn about Dharma Logic. I believe this will benefit many, not just me. THANK YOU and have a lovely day or evening or night - wherever you are!  :D
Helena

triesa

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2010, 05:42:23 PM »
Dear all,

You know what, I am just happy that the forum is back on. Thank you Admin for your quick action!

Having said that, I am equally disappointed that the closure of this forum for such a short period of time can create so much back stabbing against each other. Now I think we must move on, if you have supported this forum before and like what was being discussed, then now is the time to express your views again.

Even though I am quite new here in the forum, I still believe, as I have stated in the guest book, that we should exercise patience and support during hiccups,this is very important. Even if it may happen again, I will still adhere to the same principle.

This forum is to share our dear lord Dorje Shugden to the world, to clear his name and to promote his practice to benefit more people who may chance on the website.

So lets start practising the qualities that Dorje Shugden would like us to be!!!

with folded hands,
Triesa

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Re: of newbies and oldies
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2010, 06:30:45 PM »



I love you all.
Dear newbies, I love you all, and I wish we could become friends.
 


Dear A Friend

It would be wonderful for everyone in this forum to become friends. And I wish to extend my appreciation for the years of sharing and how much knowledge you have deposited into this forum. Well, one thing for sure is everyone in this forum LOVES the forum and especially King Dorje Shugden. Thinking about this warms my heart...that people from all walks of life congregates in this online debate hall almost daily! Pretty amazing I should say..

wishing you well always
DSFriend