Author Topic: Forum back  (Read 27911 times)

a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2010, 09:29:50 PM »

Thanks friend, that was kind.
aF


Vajraprotector

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2010, 02:21:18 AM »

It's a fact that this Forum radically changed when we had in January a flock of new people all sharing a common view: that the views of the older people of this Forum was wrong, and theirs, right. Since this is a debatable question, no problem, it has been debated and will continue to be debated.

Together with the new blood that should be always welcome came a new element, though, or a collection of new elements, that many cannot appreciate because they were not here before, and the gist of the matter consists precisely in the difference between old and new.


Dear a friend,
Forum will always change because the flock of new people (like me in January) are now semi-oldbies and there are more newbies coming in. 

New people who join perhaps lack the insight compared to old-bies like you, TK, trinleykelsang, Thom and many other seniors who has the experience and this platform for discussion/ debate for a long time. Hence, I would like to request you to always encourage others to be open, so that newbies will feel that this forum is a learning ground, and not a debate court to be "pinned down" by seniors who knows much more.

I thank you for your friendly posts and I do hope this forum continues to serve the Shugden community well. 

a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2010, 04:38:55 AM »
From Vajraprotector
Quote
so that newbies will feel that this forum is a learning ground, and not a debate court to be "pinned down" by seniors who knows much more.


Thank you for bringing that up. One way or another this seems to be a hurtful point for some newoldies.  ;)
I'm scratching my head right now. How to go about this one?
Because this is a type of lay people debate ground. This is what we have been doing a good part of the time before you all came: debating.
Also sharing information, pictures, asking others for advice ... and being alert to lend a hand to the victims when the DL's persecution becomes more active or produces new victims. This for us is a huge activity, no doubt by nature intermittent, but very very important. I would have liked to see some more activity last week, when we alerted about Jampa in Nepal, for instance. But with very few exceptions I didn't see much reaction. This type of activity does not require much knowledge and it would create a link between us, a non negligible benefit, like a bonus on top of the obvious necessity of helping that monk.
So I cannot promise not to debate (particularly that main subject  8) that has our opinions divided) but I sincerely don't think that to debate should be offensive. It doesn't matter who knows more or less. It does matter to avoid hatred, personal attacks, offended feelings about views. It's not easy but not impossible. At least not for you, I don't perceive that hatred is a big propensity.
So what do you think about the rule that I would like us all to adopt, that when debating only refer to the views and not to the people holding the views?
I thank you for the friendly post and share in your hopes about the Forum.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 04:41:49 AM by a friend »

a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2010, 05:00:36 AM »
whereby we can all learn about Dharma Logic.


Dear Samayatree,

This is the book that I would recommend right now about Logic. LIKE A HEART SO DEARLY NEEDED FOR LIBERATION. http://www.mstp.us/Books/HeartSoDearly.php
It's not an official manual of logic, it applies Dharma logic directly to the basic knowledges that we need to start the path. It's such a great book, so uplifting!
Let me quote from their presentation:

Indeed, what is the heart of the path? The logical mind. By proving that Buddha is a perfect refuge, that past and future lives exist, and that liberation and enlightenment are truly possible for us, we can tread the path surefooted, with confidence, not as followers of blind faith, but as accomplished followers of reason.
If sometime you have the opportunity to get it and read it you will enjoy a wonderful cup of the sweet nectar of Dharma.



honeydakini

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2010, 05:14:09 AM »

when debating only refer to the views and not to the people holding the views?
I thank you for the friendly post and share in your hopes about the Forum.



Dear A Friend,
you really a true friend! Thank you for all your views.

I like your suggestion VERY MUCH that we are debating the points and not the people. In some cases, it may also be that we are commenting on the tone used in the forum in the event that it begins to become unfriendly, hurtful or when people are making it an unpleasant atmosphere to post in. This again is  not meant as an attack on the person, but on their delivery and approach in debating and talking to each other.

I don't think anyone has any deliberate intention of hurting each other or that it has ever been a case that it is a personal attack against anyone. Actually, if we look at the little "feuds" or what seem like "arguments", it is actually just proof of how much everyone on this forum really is passionate and cares about our protector and wanting to protect the slanderous views and judgements against him and the Lamas in recent years. At the bottom if it all, we do love each other very much, especially as we are all still here, talking to each other, sharing views, debating and learning from each other!

I urge all to take on this approach to debate views and not get personal - this would be the best way for creating a friendly, safe and nurturing environment for learning. Thanks a Friend!

Rachel

Mohani

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2010, 05:51:13 AM »
Hello Folks,
I wanted to say thank you to people here. The last couple of days I have been feeling pretty uncomfortable, I felt sad about what people had been saying about me. I have felt scared to post on here. But it has helped me to look in my mind to see that the pain is coming from attatchment to my reputation and wanting people to like me, so I needn't be scared to post on here, because I know I have not done anything wrong and that I have acted from love. If people feel I have and they see me as a problem then that is their negative mind and I am sorry to have acted as a condition for that, but then maybe it has helped them to identify the enemy within their mind.
I have always been happy to help people on this forum with anything I can, and I will continue to do so.
May mara be destroyed by the swift and wrathful Dorje Shugden.
Love,
Mohani.x

Mohani

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2010, 06:11:17 AM »
Dear afriend and samayatree,

Geshe-la book that covers Logic is ' Understanding the Mind', There is an explanation about Syllogistic reasoning in the chapter on Inferential Cognizers. It is a fantastic book, out of this world.

Also people here might be interested in this, I came across it a couple of years ago when surfing:
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 07:13:22 AM by Mohani »

cleojean

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2010, 07:25:13 AM »
Dear everyone - especially to Mohani, A Friend and Samayatree,
Firstly, I would like to express my deepest and sincere apologies. I must admit when I first read about how some people wanted to open a mirror site and just abandoned ship like that, so easily - it sparked a defense mechanism within me. As it stands, DS practitioners are already getting bullied in all ways. So, I felt much incensed by how our own members would seemingly do the same. Having said all that, I realise these are just my own perceptions. Whether they are right or wrong, I cannot say. I have no right to say. Whether they themselves understand what they are doing and what their real motivation is, I am also not in a position to judge. As our main practice is always loving kindness, I felt most ashamed that I displayed none of it. As I logged in and read all the posts - especially the conversations between A Friend and Samayatree and how they resovled their differences and ended up friendship, it truly moved me. In addition, when I read Mohani's own post - it brought tears to my eyes. I am sure it is not easy for Mohani to do this. I know it would not be easy for me, personally, if I were Mohani. But I have gained faith and respect in the members of this Forum due to what has happened recently. Sometimes we ourselves may not know how well our sincere intent may be received. Some of us may not even realise whether our intent is sincere or genuine in the first place as well. After much reflection on my own shameful actions, and the kind actions of others in this Forum - my belief and faith in this Forum are deeply reinforced. This website and Forum not only share a treasure of valuable information but it brings people to a higher understanding of one another, and of ourselves. And that is truly amazingly beautiful to me.
I had to re-value my own thoughts and feelings as well. Perhaps this is similiar to what is happening in Dharamsala & TGIE - HH DL may have his own plans in doing what he does with DS - but the ways in which  the TGIE has executed those policies have been too extreme. Some may have been over-ruled by their own highly defensive emotions, some may be over-ruled by their own desires for more power and money and some may be just plain confused and are swept by the whole TIDE OF THINGS. Hence, there is a real difference between those who execute and those who issues a statement or policy, or those who want to do something important but the sincerity of the intent is not understood, or even appreciated. So much misunderstanding can arise from it, as can be exemplified by what happened in here. This is just a mirror to our outside world.
It is vry clear to me that I know very little and understand very little. Above all, it is so important that we begin everything with compassion so that we can end with compassion.
I can safely say that no one here is bad or has any ill intent. So many people – oldies or newbies have taken the time to post things and share so much meaningful information and have enriched us all. This Forum is great because of everyone’s collective efforts and dedication to share more. And that is what I truly value most of all.
So, once again, I am deeply sorry to have caused anyone, any grief or discomfort in any which way or form. And I humbly request that we all remember how valuable this Forum this and how important all of us are to this Forum. We are the ones who make this Forum special, every input and every word we put in here – may it all be drenched with loving kindness, and the true motivation to help others understand DS better and the glory of DS.
May this Forum be a haven, be an institution of learning and healing, a place of comfort and solace to anyone who needs and seeks for it.
May this Forum be a sanctuary of friendship, hope and great faith.
May the supreme glory of DS spread into the ten directions from here and change lives.
I shall re-post my comments here in other threads where I have commented so that the people whom my apologies are directed to can read them. This is my only intention and it is not to spam.
Thank you for having me here. It is a joy and priviledge.
May I always strive to behave and speak in a way that reflects my Guru’s teachings and kindness. May I always embody what I aspire to practice through my words. May I strive to be a good example of a student of Dharma and follower of DS.

THANK YOU ALL and have a wonderful day

a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2010, 12:35:14 AM »

Dear friend,
 Please read my answer ... I don't remember where, but you'll find it.
Thank you again.


a friend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2010, 04:07:06 AM »

Thanks Mohani for the name and the link. If you like Logic, then please please read LIKE A HEART SO DEARLY NEEDED FOR LIBERATION. It's been compiled by one of the last yogis that got enlightened in our times, Trehor Rinpoche, but the texts compiled are mostly from Gyeltsab Je, the main disciple of Lord Tsongkhapa, if I remember correctly. It's Logic put to work to prove the basic tenets of our holy system.

Honeydakini, thank you for your words. I was thinking that when we have the following, that you describe: In some cases, it may also be that we are commenting on the tone used in the forum in the event that it begins to become unfriendly, hurtful or when people are making it an unpleasant atmosphere to post in we should send a private message to the person.
Any such or similar situation should be treated privately, it's better for the mind of the person receiving the comment.
Same thing for laudatory remarks. To be constantly lauding each other might create a source of anxiety, why is he complimented and me not? why nobody is saying nice things to me anymore? We are all under the weight of the 8 worldly dharmas, it would be a good idea to avoid them.
These are ideas not diktats. I'll try to put them into practice myself.
Thank you again for your words.

DSFriend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2010, 11:51:19 PM »
Hello Folks,
I wanted to say thank you to people here. The last couple of days I have been feeling pretty uncomfortable, I felt sad about what people had been saying about me. I have felt scared to post on here. But it has helped me to look in my mind to see that the pain is coming from attatchment to my reputation and wanting people to like me, so I needn't be scared to post on here, because I know I have not done anything wrong and that I have acted from love. If people feel I have and they see me as a problem then that is their negative mind and I am sorry to have acted as a condition for that, but then maybe it has helped them to identify the enemy within their mind.
I have always been happy to help people on this forum with anything I can, and I will continue to do so.
May mara be destroyed by the swift and wrathful Dorje Shugden.
Love,
Mohani.x

Dear Mohani

I'm so glad to revisit this thread and find harmony restored, lesson learnt, our ego slayed. Thank you for staying and continuing to contribute to this site. There's so much experience and knowledge from the seniors that I feel will be a great lost if we focus on petty differences... when we all share a very STRONG LOVE and GRATITUDE to our BELOVED PROTECTOR KING DORJE SHUGDEN whose time has come!


DSFriend

Helena

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2010, 04:03:19 PM »
Hey A Friend,

I must have missed your post in all the mountain of new threads and discussions. Thank you so kindly for taking the time to suggest this title to me. I will try and look for it. Yes, I'll enjoy a cup of sweet nectar of Dharma. What a beautiful phrase indeed. Thank you again, friend. 

Dear Samayatree,

This is the book that I would recommend right now about Logic. LIKE A HEART SO DEARLY NEEDED FOR LIBERATION. http://www.mstp.us/Books/HeartSoDearly.php
It's not an official manual of logic, it applies Dharma logic directly to the basic knowledges that we need to start the path. It's such a great book, so uplifting!
Let me quote from their presentation:[/color]
Indeed, what is the heart of the path? The logical mind. By proving that Buddha is a perfect refuge, that past and future lives exist, and that liberation and enlightenment are truly possible for us, we can tread the path surefooted, with confidence, not as followers of blind faith, but as accomplished followers of reason.
If sometime you have the opportunity to get it and read it you will enjoy a wonderful cup of the sweet nectar of Dharma.



[/quote]
Helena

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2010, 04:49:27 PM »
Hello Folks,
I wanted to say thank you to people here. The last couple of days I have been feeling pretty uncomfortable, I felt sad about what people had been saying about me. I have felt scared to post on here. But it has helped me to look in my mind to see that the pain is coming from attatchment to my reputation and wanting people to like me, so I needn't be scared to post on here, because I know I have not done anything wrong and that I have acted from love. If people feel I have and they see me as a problem then that is their negative mind and I am sorry to have acted as a condition for that, but then maybe it has helped them to identify the enemy within their mind.
I have always been happy to help people on this forum with anything I can, and I will continue to do so.
May mara be destroyed by the swift and wrathful Dorje Shugden.
Love,
Mohani.x

I like what you say here, Mohani. I also don't like to feel apprehensive to post things and be accused of being a robot or whatever bot. If i feel that someone is being personal and antagonistic, i'd rather not engage with them because i feel it's not constructive. Then i receive sarcastic comments?

Actually i looked up sarcasm and it's defined as “a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt." and some of our forum members say they like being sarcastic. I'm not angry but i feel sad.

May Dorje Shugden please help us not hurt each other.




Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2010, 12:00:42 AM »
Great New Frontpage !

yes it is... congratulations to the webmaster/designer and thank you for spending so much effort and time on this site to continuously improve it. Your dedication to Dorje Shugden is immeasurable!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DSFriend

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Re: Forum back
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2010, 03:05:53 AM »
Dear Website Admin and team!
WOW! Beautiful new skin for the website. Looks fresh, modern, classy, approachable. What an amazing team (i assume there is more than one of you) to always look for ways to improve the site. Hats off to you...talking about hats, Dorje Shuden's hat looks fabulous on the frontpage!

three cheers
DSFriend