Author Topic: Can a human being enter into another human being's mind body continuum?  (Read 45869 times)

Ratna Shugden

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Excepts from "Chod In The Ganden Tradition: The Oral Instructions Of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche"

"Another listing of spirits includes devas (gods), nagas, yakshas (wealth deities), gandharvas (celestial musicians), asuras (aggressive demigods), garudas, kinnaras (diminutive spirits, said to be very handsome), mahoragas (big-bellied serpent spirits), manusas (humans), and amanusas (non-humans). This list come from the text of Cha Sum, the Three-Part ritual performed when people are sick. As part of this ritual, tormas are sent out for spirits, and a short recitation is done. Human beings are included in this listing because they can also enter into another being's mind body continuum."

"Human beings are included in this listing because they can also enter into another being's mind body continuum."" - How is this possible?

Ensapa

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Excepts from "Chod In The Ganden Tradition: The Oral Instructions Of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche"

"Another listing of spirits includes devas (gods), nagas, yakshas (wealth deities), gandharvas (celestial musicians), asuras (aggressive demigods), garudas, kinnaras (diminutive spirits, said to be very handsome), mahoragas (big-bellied serpent spirits), manusas (humans), and amanusas (non-humans). This list come from the text of Cha Sum, the Three-Part ritual performed when people are sick. As part of this ritual, tormas are sent out for spirits, and a short recitation is done. Human beings are included in this listing because they can also enter into another being's mind body continuum."

"Human beings are included in this listing because they can also enter into another being's mind body continuum."" - How is this possible?

Yes it is possible, but usually stories of this exists of another human being transferring their consciousness to a dead body as opposed to a living being. The term used is consciousness transference. If I am not mistaken, there is a story in the same book that you mentioned that talks about a prince who sent his consciousness into the carcass of a bird, then eventually jumped back to his own body eventually. Do correct me if i am wrong, but i do believe that this is what this line refers to.

lotus1

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From this definition of spirits, a spirit can be from human, hungry ghost, god, demi gods realms that they can “enter into another being's mind body continuum".

I googled on the “consciousness transference” and found a very good article by Lama Yeshe. http://www.tonglen.oceandrop.org/Transference_Of_Consciousness.htm
In his articles, he mentioned that “Once you have gained control over your mind there are many things you can do. Not only can you transfer your consciousness from your body but you can also direct it into another body.”

From the article, transference of consciousness are practices (or called Pho-wa) in Buddhism that is used to direct our consciousness to a good rebirth so that we have a better rebirth.

However, anyone have any example of “enter into another being's mind body continuum” while someone is alive and become spirits? Is spirits considered good or harmful to others?

kris

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Before I take on Buddhism, I never believe such things, but now I would believe it is possible. I have heard my lama mentioned that astral travel is possible when we have done enough practice, and if one's mind can leave the body, why not "enter" into others' mind?

I have read many people's experience, when they were in great danger, their protector or guru came into their mind stream and help them...

BTW, thanks lotus1 for sharing the article.

Ratna Shugden

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Before I take on Buddhism, I never believe such things, but now I would believe it is possible. I have heard my lama mentioned that astral travel is possible when we have done enough practice, and if one's mind can leave the body, why not "enter" into others' mind?


How can one stop this intrusion?

Ensapa

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Before I take on Buddhism, I never believe such things, but now I would believe it is possible. I have heard my lama mentioned that astral travel is possible when we have done enough practice, and if one's mind can leave the body, why not "enter" into others' mind?


How can one stop this intrusion?

you can stop it by doing protector practices, Black Manjushri and not opening your third eye. Opening your third eye is like literally opening an unprotected wifi network that everyone else who can perceive your network to connect  inside and do whatever they want. The best is of course, to consult your Lama for the instructions. But in general, i dont think anyone needs to be afraid unless they have offended someone that has this capability. After all, a karmic connection is needed if the person who does this wants to do it successfully.

Ratna Shugden

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Before I take on Buddhism, I never believe such things, but now I would believe it is possible. I have heard my lama mentioned that astral travel is possible when we have done enough practice, and if one's mind can leave the body, why not "enter" into others' mind?


How can one stop this intrusion?



you can stop it by doing protector practices, Black Manjushri and not opening your third eye. Opening your third eye is like literally opening an unprotected wifi network that everyone else who can perceive your network to connect  inside and do whatever they want. The best is of course, to consult your Lama for the instructions. But in general, i dont think anyone needs to be afraid unless they have offended someone that has this capability. After all, a karmic connection is needed if the person who does this wants to do it successfully.

What is the third eye? How do I know if mine is open? How can I close it if it is open?

Ensapa

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What is the third eye? How do I know if mine is open? How can I close it if it is open?

The third eye is simply the opening of the possibility of having physic powers such as detecting spirits, foretelling the future, astral travelling etc. If you can do any of those things, then your 3rd eye is open. If you want to close it, you could seek advice from a Lama on how to close it. I can sense your fear in these things tho. Just dont be too paranoid about it even though it sounds scary. If you dont have the karma to be possessed, you wont be.

WisdomBeing

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i think it is possible but that person who can transfer their consciousness into another human being's body must have some level of attainments in order to do so. i wonder if transferring the consciousness to another human means the human recipient is dead or volunteers their body or he/she can be involuntarily taken over. If the latter, that is quite scary though i don't imagine it happens a lot. If the human body is dead, is it like a zombie :P and it would have to be a fresh corpse or the body would be rotting? Anyway. just weird stuff that goes through my mind.

by the way - what has all this got to do with Dorje Shugden? Should this thread be in the general buddhism thread?
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Ensapa

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i think it is possible but that person who can transfer their consciousness into another human being's body must have some level of attainments in order to do so. i wonder if transferring the consciousness to another human means the human recipient is dead or volunteers their body or he/she can be involuntarily taken over. If the latter, that is quite scary though i don't imagine it happens a lot. If the human body is dead, is it like a zombie :P and it would have to be a fresh corpse or the body would be rotting? Anyway. just weird stuff that goes through my mind.

by the way - what has all this got to do with Dorje Shugden? Should this thread be in the general buddhism thread?

However in the case of the latter, a woman claims that Domo Geshe Rinpoche did that to her.

Quote

Transference of Consciousness. In brief, Rinpoche's previous incarnation, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, performed a ritual of transfer of consciousness; in Tibetan this is called drong juk. Though rarely done, this form of reincarnation is recognized and has been performed in the past by high lamas. In recent interviews, in fact, His Holiness the Dalai Lama has alluded to the possibility of choosing an adult successor, perhaps even a female form, to continue his work, implying a similar process is under consideration. “…what is crucial is the capacity of incarnate lamas to transfer their soul/consciousness through the womb,” Dr Sangay wrote. “[T]he same spiritual mystical capacity could be utilized to transfer the soul/consciousness to an adult of the lama’s own choosing.” (Quote from LiveMint.com, partner of Wall Street Journal)

One reason for Rinpoche’s unusual method of reincarnation was the immense work to be done in the West; Rinpoche's specific work in this life is to help westerners understand and study Buddhism. In order to have a successful result, a thorough understanding of western culture and language was needed, which could be accomplished through the transference of consciousness to a Western adult. In this case, the form of a female monastic, a close student who had been ordained by Domo Geshe, was chosen.

During the first years after this transfer of consciousness, which occurred in 2000, the newly incarnated Rinpoche’s English language skills and cultural knowledge increased, and this progress is well documented and quite evident in early audio and video recordings, which are available to the public. Throughout this process, Rinpoche retained the full training acquired in previous incarnations as a Tibetan lama as well as the memories of previous lives.

This choice of a reincarnation method was guided by wisdom and has already brought much benefit. However, it has not been without controversy. Most reincarnates are born as babies, most are male, and most are Tibetan or at least from Tibetan families. As an adult American female, and considering this unusual method of reincarnation, when Rinpoche let it be known that she was indeed the reincarnate of the male Domo Geshe, some believed her, while others did not.

But then again, a Domo Geshe Rinpoche incarnation has been found which is recognized by many different Lamas.

WisdomBeing

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personally i have my reservations about the American lady.. but who the hell am i to say :)
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Ensapa

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personally i have my reservations about the American lady.. but who the hell am i to say :)

Personally, i'd trust the incarnation which is a little boy now rather than the lady, because if it was possible, then all the high lamas would have done it already, but they did not because it would be pretty much create a moral dilemma in more ways than one, because how would the relatives and loved ones of the host deal with the fact that who they  used to know is not who they  used to know anymore? There has been controversies of people who have similar crisises when they are transplanted the face or the genitals of another person, so if its just a bodypart, imagine replacing someone's consciousness with another.

In the instances of consciousness transference, the host body is usually dead and not alive. The Chinese immortal, Iron Crutch Li is said to have done it as well, and again, on someone who have just died:

Quote
Before becoming an immortal, it was previously stated that Li Tieh-Kuai was a very handsome man. However, on one occasion his spirit traveled to Heaven to meet with some other Immortals. He had told his apprentice, Li Ching, to wait for seven days for his spirit to return. If he did not return by then, Li Ching was to burn the body because that meant that he had become an immortal; but after six and a half days the student had to go home to see to his sick mother one last time before she died. So the student cremated the body of Li Tieh-Kuai. The student passed a dying beggar on his way to his mother's but did not have time to bury him.[7] Upon returning, Li Tieh-Kuai's spirit found that his body had been cremated and had to enter the only body available at the time, the corpse of the homeless beggar who had just died of starvation. The beggar, unfortunately, had a long and pointed head, large ears with one large brass earring, a woolly and disheveled beard and hair. He also had long, scraggy, and dark eyebrows, dark eyes, and he had a pan lid on his head and a lame leg.

Rinchen

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What is the third eye? How do I know if mine is open? How can I close it if it is open?

The third eye is simply the opening of the possibility of having physic powers such as detecting spirits, foretelling the future, astral travelling etc. If you can do any of those things, then your 3rd eye is open. If you want to close it, you could seek advice from a Lama on how to close it. I can sense your fear in these things tho. Just dont be too paranoid about it even though it sounds scary. If you dont have the karma to be possessed, you wont be.

Like what Ensapa said, the third eye is the capabilities to see things/beings/demi-gods/buddhas that others may or may not see. It is also the ability to see into the future (for this it would depends on how open your third eye is). Even when one is able to see "things" that others may not be able to see, how open your third eye is affects the frequency that you see these "beings".

For some people, they will be able to feel the touch of these beings. But it depends on each person. For the ability to astral travel, that would be commonly be termed as "fourth eye" instead of "third eye".

When one has these capabilities, one has to have close and clean samaya with their protector by constantly doing your practices and also to keep your promises to your Guru or Protector.

To close the third eye, you can consult lamas for help, letting them know your situation. Do not be afraid to do so as the sangha know about these beings and they would be able to help us. As long as we voice out for help, they will definitely help us.

For people who have very opened third eye, it would be easier for them to be possessed as the beings would look at them as doors for them to enter. And since these people are able to see the beings, the beings would like to disturb people with the third eye and might even "borrow" their bodies. Some beings would not return the bodies to their owners, hence, be very careful. But it is able to close your chakra points so that the beings would not be able to enter into you.

As for why human beings are also included in the list, I think it is because the meaning in the list does not mean like physical soul, but instead, it is the mind. Just like beings, we would be able to travel with thought, and we are able to communicate psychically in that state of mind. Hence, humans are also being included on the list.

Ensapa

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Like what Ensapa said, the third eye is the capabilities to see things/beings/demi-gods/buddhas that others may or may not see. It is also the ability to see into the future (for this it would depends on how open your third eye is). Even when one is able to see "things" that others may not be able to see, how open your third eye is affects the frequency that you see these "beings".

For some people, they will be able to feel the touch of these beings. But it depends on each person. For the ability to astral travel, that would be commonly be termed as "fourth eye" instead of "third eye".

When one has these capabilities, one has to have close and clean samaya with their protector by constantly doing your practices and also to keep your promises to your Guru or Protector.

To close the third eye, you can consult lamas for help, letting them know your situation. Do not be afraid to do so as the sangha know about these beings and they would be able to help us. As long as we voice out for help, they will definitely help us.

For people who have very opened third eye, it would be easier for them to be possessed as the beings would look at them as doors for them to enter. And since these people are able to see the beings, the beings would like to disturb people with the third eye and might even "borrow" their bodies. Some beings would not return the bodies to their owners, hence, be very careful. But it is able to close your chakra points so that the beings would not be able to enter into you.

As for why human beings are also included in the list, I think it is because the meaning in the list does not mean like physical soul, but instead, it is the mind. Just like beings, we would be able to travel with thought, and we are able to communicate psychically in that state of mind. Hence, humans are also being included on the list.

Thank you for the brilliant explanation, rinchen. However, i would like to digress on the humans in the list part because there has not been any case of a human possessing another human so far (sounds like the beginnings of a horror movie) and to be able to do so would mean that the human must have the power to emanate another mind that is strong enough to override the mind of another human. The only cases of a human's mind being transferred into another human is where the host human is already dead, but it has to be a freshly dead corpse before the winds start to dissolve, and thus the gross mind is still present, but the subtle mind has severed ties with the body.

Rinchen

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Thank you for the brilliant explanation, rinchen. However, i would like to digress on the humans in the list part because there has not been any case of a human possessing another human so far (sounds like the beginnings of a horror movie) and to be able to do so would mean that the human must have the power to emanate another mind that is strong enough to override the mind of another human. The only cases of a human's mind being transferred into another human is where the host human is already dead, but it has to be a freshly dead corpse before the winds start to dissolve, and thus the gross mind is still present, but the subtle mind has severed ties with the body.

Yup, I agree that it would be a little freaky. But, there are cases of human possessing another human being or other beings. This happens when one astral travels, while your mind has left your body, it is possible for another human being or any being at all to also occupy your body at the same time. You do not have to be really really dead to be able to "possess" someone else.

But in this case it would mean that the state of the mind being able to astral travel, being at a another place without the physical body. When one astral travels they will be at places where they might even be an alien. But, I guess people that do not astral travel will not know until they start doing it.

Having the mind to travel or being depicted as something else is explained in one of the parts of clairvoyance. This would be the clairvoyance of having the ability of miracle powers. In other words, it would be having the power to emanate with thought. Even emanating as things that we "normal" people/beings would be looking at.