Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden

[Zach]

If indeed this is true, what is most remarkable about this whole incidence is the fact that the Thubten Jinpa was not reprimanded in any way (or was he?). Zemey Rinpoche was not just any DS lama, but one that was very much publicly denounced and despised, mostly for having written the Yellow Book, for for being seen as the one to start the whole controversy about Dorje Shugden. So a prostration to him is not just any prostration to any DS Lama. It can be regarded as highly dangerous and an act of great betrayal

And if indeed it is true that many of the Dalai Lama's students are paying respects to Trijang Rinpoche in his very own ladrang, it is also remarkable that nothing has been said to 'tell them off' off their actions - which could very well be tantamount to treason!

Is the Dalai Lama really softening his stance? Allowing people to 'choose' for themselves?

Well, you know, rumors spread like wildfire amongst the Tibetans and at the slightest hint of a rumor, it will then be somehow become the truth in the community. Taking this into account, Thutben Jinpa allowing this rumor to persist without trying to clarify it would really damage his reputation and his standing with the Dalai Lama. So if he has not try to vindicate himself yet, it could very well be that this rumor is indeed true. If it is really that this is true, it would mean that HHDL has relaxed the ban of Dorje Shugden, and that this is a herald to a new beginning.

I have it on good authority he has not been to Shar Gaden. 

[Ensapa]

I have it on good authority he has not been to Shar Gaden. 

Hmm? What do you mean you have good authority that he hasnt been to Shar Ganden? If he has not why are there rumors that he went there? From my experience, rumors do not start by its own and it usually comes out because there could be a hint of truth in them. I am wondering of Losang Tenpa, our resident monk in Shar Ganden could confirm this as he is residing there after all and he could give us a definite answer of whether or not Thutben Jinpa has been to Shar Ganden or not. If there is someone on this forum who would know about matters like these, it would be Losang Tenpa.

[Zach]

I have it on good authority he has not been to Shar Gaden. 

Hmm? What do you mean you have good authority that he hasnt been to Shar Ganden? If he has not why are there rumors that he went there? From my experience, rumors do not start by its own and it usually comes out because there could be a hint of truth in them. I am wondering of Losang Tenpa, our resident monk in Shar Ganden could confirm this as he is residing there after all and he could give us a definite answer of whether or not Thutben Jinpa has been to Shar Ganden or not. If there is someone on this forum who would know about matters like these, it would be Losang Tenpa.

Rumours start when people say things and other believe them without checking, Fact checking is important !

[dsiluvu]

I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.

I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.

I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.

I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.

If indeed this is true, what is most remarkable about this whole incidence is the fact that the Thubten Jinpa was not reprimanded in any way (or was he?). Zemey Rinpoche was not just any DS lama, but one that was very much publicly denounced and despised, mostly for having written the Yellow Book, for for being seen as the one to start the whole controversy about Dorje Shugden. So a prostration to him is not just any prostration to any DS Lama. It can be regarded as highly dangerous and an act of great betrayal

And if indeed it is true that many of the Dalai Lama's students are paying respects to Trijang Rinpoche in his very own ladrang, it is also remarkable that nothing has been said to 'tell them off' off their actions - which could very well be tantamount to treason!

Is the Dalai Lama really softening his stance? Allowing people to 'choose' for themselves?

Well if this is true... it is definitely awesome news because it would be a clear sign that His Holiness is softening his stance on the ban and well makes me think again of the "bigger picture" which many in the past condemned and was telling us off here! Yes the bigger picture which comes to mind ever so often that this is all an illusory play and the fabulous skillful workings of the enlightened minds... Dalai Lama and DOrje Shugden working hand in hand to spread the Dharma??? 

So please do not blame me, for I cannot help to think again and again... what was the whole purpose of this ban anyway? Why all that drama and trouble and schism and internal war and separation for all these years??? It cannot be for just a minute political cause that we all know and I am sure His Holiness also knows... that is impermanent and ever changing.   

And this Zemey Rinpoche... I have heard many great deeds about him... He was one of the chosen entourage to travel with His Holiness during their official visit to China in the 50's. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/videos/lamas-teachings/kyabje-zemey-rinpoche/



And after the yellow book controversy and drama and His Holiness banning and shunning away Zemey Rinpoche from all audiences and teachings... did you know that for years H.H. Zimey Rinpoche just humbly swallowed his pride and did prostrations on the outside at all the teaching places, on the dirt ground, wherever His Holiness was giving teachings. He was not allowed in, he was ban, hence he did prostrations outside, requesting forgiveness and audience. Of course the audience was never granted. Later Zemey Rinpoche went in to silent retreat and stopped teaching, went in to retreat until he passed in to clear light.... and the rest is history.

When I heard of this story I was flabbergasted, sad, moved, all mixed in to one... I cannot believe that such a highly attained Lama can be soooo humble, so selfless, so pure, so forgiving... Can you imagine if it was us?... boy the kind of ego tantrums we would throw and burst out in to! And it dawn on to me... there is a Buddha... they are like Buddhas on earth... Zemey is a Buddha that walked on our planet. There are really "REAL" enlightened beings here, because this kind of humility and Guru Devotion is incomparable and really unheard of in people of this day and age.  I felt so sorry for Zemey Rinpoche yet so much more courageous to walk this path with Dorje Shugden as my protector and more then ever more determined to destroy the evil injustice of this ban and the tremendous wrong views it has caused. The ban must be lifted!!!

Well if His Holiness was right and His Holiness Zemey wrong... then why is he back now???
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/zemey-rinpoches-stupa-and-ladrang/

I take refuge in the three jewels and much salutations! 

[dsiluvu]

Dear WB,
Yes I do agree time will tell. Recently I heard from a friend returning from Mundgod that things are not so hostile now in the sense that DS practitioners can go to some shops like normal without the strict discrimination.I think that this is also some progress...promising.

I think that the CTA dependent on HHDL is all some political farce - like good cop, bad cop - so that they have some escape goat if they screw up. I think that this website has a lot to do with the shift in HHDL and what seems to be said and the tone which is used.

I found this article:

Anonymous parcel questions Dalai's role - in The Times of India (december 6, 2012)
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-06/chandigarh/35646918_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-administration-dorje-shugden

DHARAMSHALA: In charge of local police station has received an anonymous parcel from Singapore which questions the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in Tibetan freedom struggle. While the police officers are not clear on how to deal with the parcel contents, which also contained a video DVD, a security officer of the Tibetan administration said that it was a bid to mar reputation of Dalai Lama and disrupt affairs of the Shugden community.

"We received the parcel on Tuesday evening. It contains a DVD and a letter and the text at the bottom reads - DorjeShugden.net. We are probing the matter," said superintendent of police Diljeet Singh Thakur. The letter reads: "We write to you because this concerns the freedom of Tibet. Please watch the DVD video." The DVD contains a TV news report of June 2009 and talks about prophecies of Dalai Lama and Tibetan future.

The letter questions role of Tibetan state oracle "Nechung" stating that everybody knows that "Nechung has made many mistakes before".

Dorjee Shugden's controversy

The entire Tibetan community has been divided over the Dorje Shugden controversy. This is a segment of the Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden allegedly a dharma protector of the Sakya Gelug tradition. Sources said that believers of Dorje Shugden have been severed from voting rights and have even lost all connections to Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration.

With more pro-active activities like this, HHDL will have to soften his tone... and I hope the CTA will also follow suit. More people should speak up!

WELL SAID & FABULOUS Diamond Girl... how very apt for you to highlight this article and news! I applause those who sent these fabulous packages and I myself have downloaded a few letters and sent to various authorities and of course news worthy channels. So glad that our voices are being heard.

YES the other Tibetan people's voices shall be heard!!!
They cannot step on us anymore!

I thank this website for being the pioneer site like worriers in encouraging, inspiring me and I am sure many others in lifting the ban with WISDOM & COMPASSION. All the ideas given here are creating RESULTS and it is actually happening before our very eye! Salutations to all who work hard to lift the ban. ANd I am sure there are many out there doing this silently... and the more we do, the faster the ban will be lifted... I so believe. It is like clearing away one huge obstacle, we will need a huge amount of energy to focus positively to push it away... so the puja of 10,000 would obviously be more powerful than the puja of 100 people? Lol... well this is how I'd like to see it
If there is any FREEDOM to be fought for and given... it should start from HOME!!! It should start at the very homes you call your home now in INDIA! It should start with your own brothers and sisters... your own people!

I rejoice in the all the recent rumours and news of a change in His Holiness tone, actions and focus... it gives many hope and inspires us to do more!!! Until the BAN is completely wiped out!

[Ensapa]

Well, if there is a voice for Dorje Shugden practitioners on the net, it would be this website and nowhere else because discussions of him are basically limited in other Buddhist forums and self styled crusaders would usually jump on the scene and say how bad he is and parrot the Dalai Lama's words. But what is equally funny is that no one is here in this forum trying to 'save' us or talk us out of Dorje Shugden. Where have they gone? They have so much guts to degrade anyone who even mentions Dorje Shugden elsewhere but they dont have the guts to do it here in this forum. Hilarious indeed, but as we get more educated and grow, those people will have to shut up eventually.

[Dondrup Shugden]

There had been healthy discussion on this subject and many opinions have been voiced.  There is a contributor who even said that Shugdenpas should no longer talk about what the CTA is doing with the Ban and just to practise without politics.

There had been many untruth in what CTA and pro Dalai Lama groups had been saying and I am glad that such untruth had been refuted by Shugdenpas and certain great websites like DS.com. 

This is 2015 and the declaration by Dalai Lama to stop condemning Dorje Shugden was in December 2012.  Sorry to note that the Dalai Lama and CTA are still condemning Dorje Shugden and have not stopped. CTA has issued a wanted list on Shugden lamas and leaders.

It is very important that Shugdenpas will continue to rectify and correct the wrong and untrue information.  We must continue to have our voice heard until the Ban is lifted.