You are all quite ridiculous.
If you were really so passionate and sincere about your practice, then what does it matter what the Dalai Lama says or what anyone says? You all just debate and talk back and forth among yourselves. This is a forum about your lineage and practice, so you say. So why do you need to justify your practice back and forth to each other?
Who cares what the Dalai Lama, or any lama has to say? And why do you all just keep bringing it up here over and over again? Just keep quiet and do your own practice. You all keep saying how sad and unfortunate it is that there is so much politics in religion now, but don't you realize that you are all feeding into it yourselves?
Don't you think that talking incessantly about the CTA and their policies and analysing the Dalai Lama's words to death IS ALSO POLITICS?
Just do your practice.
As long as there are people who are ignorant about Dorje Shugden and the ban, there is a need to continue to talk about CTA, HH Dalai Lama and the ban. Talking here does not mean to idle chat but it means to discuss with the correct motivation to reveal the truth about Dorje Shugden and the ban. We must continue our effort to educate the World the powerful and beneficial practice of Dorje Shugden.
I truly rejoice knowing that HHDL will stop condemning the practice. But at the same time, I can't help but be slightly skeptical about whether this means that the ban will be lifted soon. Perhaps just as the ban itself began as a gradual process (first HHDL told teachers to stop openly spreading the practice but ok to still continue, then later advising not to do the practice, then finally the firm ban that is now in place) maybe it will be removed in the same, gradual process.
One thing I wonder, though, is what will happen to various institutions and teachers who have made it their policy to mistreat or speak rudely about Dorje Shugden practitioners. For example, certain teachers in other traditions call DS a "gyalpo spirit" and tell their students not to even come physically near or speak to DS practitioners otherwise they will suffer spirit harm. Are such teachers going to have to suddenly change their rhetoric or is this kind of hurtful, sectarian strife still going to slowly continue until the new generation of Buddhists emerges?
I truly rejoice knowing that HHDL will stop condemning the practice. But at the same time, I can't help but be slightly skeptical about whether this means that the ban will be lifted soon. Perhaps just as the ban itself began as a gradual process (first HHDL told teachers to stop openly spreading the practice but ok to still continue, then later advising not to do the practice, then finally the firm ban that is now in place) maybe it will be removed in the same, gradual process.
One thing I wonder, though, is what will happen to various institutions and teachers who have made it their policy to mistreat or speak rudely about Dorje Shugden practitioners. For example, certain teachers in other traditions call DS a "gyalpo spirit" and tell their students not to even come physically near or speak to DS practitioners otherwise they will suffer spirit harm. Are such teachers going to have to suddenly change their rhetoric or is this kind of hurtful, sectarian strife still going to slowly continue until the new generation of Buddhists emerges?
One thing I wonder, though, is what will happen to various institutions and teachers who have made it their policy to mistreat or speak rudely about Dorje Shugden practitioners. For example, certain teachers in other traditions call DS a "gyalpo spirit" and tell their students not to even come physically near or speak to DS practitioners otherwise they will suffer spirit harm. Are such teachers going to have to suddenly change their rhetoric or is this kind of hurtful, sectarian strife still going to slowly continue until the new generation of Buddhists emerges?
Karla,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your views. It's good to have different perspectives. However, may I point out that if you disagree with our perspectives and approaches you do not need to continue following the writings of the website or the forum. Please try to respect the fact that much effort, hard work and time has been put into making this information available. You might not like or appreciate it, but this website has also received a lot of feedback from readers all around the world here and on Facebook who have expressed how much they have been helped by the information provided here. There are different strokes for different folks.
There are also plenty of websites out there who do not talk about the unfortunate situation of the ban. So people who do not wish to be involved with the more "contentious" issues can get a lot of information from there too if it "disturbs" them to read about the ban. If you notice, while we do highlight issues about the ban here on the website, we also provide a lot of information about the practice and Dorje Shugden himself, which is completely separate from any issues to do with the CTA or the ban.
It is important, I feel, that we provide details that are as comprehensive as possible and cover all views. People looking to engage in the practice of Dorje Shugden will somehow, inevitably come across comments or information about the ban. If there isn't any accurate information about this or news about the developments of this ban, the lack of education itself could lead to turning people away from practice. Prevention is better than trying to cure someone's doubts once they have turned. The information we provide is also to preempt the nasty thoughts and comments that others may plant into the minds of future Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Please respect the guidelines and mission of this website since you are in this space. These can be read clearly here [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=880.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=880.0[/url])
I hope this will also give you a better understanding of this website's mission and intention - you will see that it arises only from a good motivation to provide as much knowledge as possible. Knowledge, I'm sure you'll agree, empowers and strengthens any practitioner's understanding, study, meditation and practice - all key ingredients if we wish to advance on our spiritual journey.
It is important to debate and I appreciate you giving us a different way of looking at things. Please try to appreciate our way and approach also.
I wish you the best in all your spiritual aspirations!
The CTA are just the puppets of HH the Dalai Lama - meaning that though the Dalai Lama has outwardly stepped down from his political role, the CTA would always follow the Dalai Lama's instructions. The Dalai Lama only stepped down relatively recently and it would take a long time for the CTA to find its own footing and be truly independent. This may not happen until the Dalai Lama passes into clear light, again of course we do not wish this to happen for a long time.
It is not really the CTA's fault, if we look at it objectively. They are incompetent because they have no real experience in the political arena. Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay is a scholar, not a politician. However, that said, i have always called for the CTA to lift the ban so that at least on the secular level, it would show that the CTA is independent. They should remove the ban on Shugden practitioners to shop, to go to schools, to travel and have travel papers. What has one's religious practice have to do with all these things???
The Dalai Lama may continue to assert the spiritual ban in that no Shugden practitioner can attend his talks or his empowerments but at least Dorje Shugden practitioners would have access to basic necessities which is the absolute right of ANY human being. It will be interesting to see if the Dalai Lama does go through with what he says, in that he will not criticise Dorje Shugden in public any more. It's not that i doubt this news, but the Dalai Lama could change his mind though since he announced it to the abbots of the monasteries, it will look inconsistent if he went back on his word. I guess time will tell.
As long as there are people who are ignorant about Dorje Shugden and the ban, there is a need to continue to talk about CTA, HH Dalai Lama and the ban. Talking here does not mean to idle chat but it means to discuss with the correct motivation to reveal the truth about Dorje Shugden and the ban. We must continue our effort to educate the World the powerful and beneficial practice of Dorje Shugden.
There are many ways to continue to promote your practice without talking about the politics.
Just do your practice. that is the best way to show people how effective and real the practice is.
When you talk like this, people will come to your website and the first thing they will think is that Buddhists are more interested in talking about politics than in their practice. There are a lot of people out there who need help and they are looking everywhere for answers. When they look at the Dalai Lama's side, the people there are talking against this practice and talking all about politics. When they look at your side, they also see you talking politics. It's politics everywhere.
You risk turning people off from practice because all they see is political talk and not practice. You may have a good intention and I hear what you're all saying but once you start talking about the CTA, Free Tibet issues and a majority of the things that you are talking about here, you turn this space into a political one. People have their own politics to deal with in their country, in their offices and in their families. They don't need to learn all about politics in religious place also.
You may be speaking up for all the people who are suffering because of this ban, but at the same time, maybe you are putting off a whole lot of other people who could be introduced to the practice but are turned away because they don't like the politics they see. So you have to weigh it out - how many people are you really helping? how many people are you potentially cutting off from the dharma?
That is why the any discourse in this forum is of utmost importance. It is not about hyping up the ban per se but more of understand why, where and what is the cause of it all...
Dear WB,
Yes I do agree time will tell. Recently I heard from a friend returning from Mundgod that things are not so hostile now in the sense that DS practitioners can go to some shops like normal without the strict discrimination.I think that this is also some progress...promising.
I think that the CTA dependent on HHDL is all some political farce - like good cop, bad cop - so that they have some escape goat if they screw up. I think that this website has a lot to do with the shift in HHDL and what seems to be said and the tone which is used.
I found this article:
Anonymous parcel questions Dalai's role - in The Times of India (december 6, 2012)
[url]http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-06/chandigarh/35646918_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-administration-dorje-shugden[/url] ([url]http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-06/chandigarh/35646918_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-administration-dorje-shugden[/url])
DHARAMSHALA: In charge of local police station has received an anonymous parcel from Singapore which questions the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in Tibetan freedom struggle. While the police officers are not clear on how to deal with the parcel contents, which also contained a video DVD, a security officer of the Tibetan administration said that it was a bid to mar reputation of Dalai Lama and disrupt affairs of the Shugden community.
"We received the parcel on Tuesday evening. It contains a DVD and a letter and the text at the bottom reads - DorjeShugden.net. We are probing the matter," said superintendent of police Diljeet Singh Thakur. The letter reads: "We write to you because this concerns the freedom of Tibet. Please watch the DVD video." The DVD contains a TV news report of June 2009 and talks about prophecies of Dalai Lama and Tibetan future.
The letter questions role of Tibetan state oracle "Nechung" stating that everybody knows that "Nechung has made many mistakes before".
Dorjee Shugden's controversy
The entire Tibetan community has been divided over the Dorje Shugden controversy. This is a segment of the Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden allegedly a dharma protector of the Sakya Gelug tradition. Sources said that believers of Dorje Shugden have been severed from voting rights and have even lost all connections to Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration.
With more pro-active activities like this, HHDL will have to soften his tone... and I hope the CTA will also follow suit. More people should speak up!
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.
I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.
I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.
I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.
This is truly very good news!! Does this mean that the Dalai Lama approves of the practice of Dorje Shugden, finally? This will definitely give some relieve to us practitioners and it is a sign that the ban may be coming down soon.
After so many years of condemning the DS practice, the Dalai Lama’s stance is softened. So, what was believed that the Dalai Lama orchestrated this ban so that there will be more awareness and practitioners may be true.
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.
I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.
I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.
I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.
I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.
I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.
I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.
If indeed this is true, what is most remarkable about this whole incidence is the fact that the Thubten Jinpa was not reprimanded in any way (or was he?). Zemey Rinpoche was not just any DS lama, but one that was very much publicly denounced and despised, mostly for having written the Yellow Book, for for being seen as the one to start the whole controversy about Dorje Shugden. So a prostration to him is not just any prostration to any DS Lama. It can be regarded as highly dangerous and an act of great betrayal
And if indeed it is true that many of the Dalai Lama's students are paying respects to Trijang Rinpoche in his very own ladrang, it is also remarkable that nothing has been said to 'tell them off' off their actions - which could very well be tantamount to treason!
Is the Dalai Lama really softening his stance? Allowing people to 'choose' for themselves?
If indeed this is true, what is most remarkable about this whole incidence is the fact that the Thubten Jinpa was not reprimanded in any way (or was he?). Zemey Rinpoche was not just any DS lama, but one that was very much publicly denounced and despised, mostly for having written the Yellow Book, for for being seen as the one to start the whole controversy about Dorje Shugden. So a prostration to him is not just any prostration to any DS Lama. It can be regarded as highly dangerous and an act of great betrayal
And if indeed it is true that many of the Dalai Lama's students are paying respects to Trijang Rinpoche in his very own ladrang, it is also remarkable that nothing has been said to 'tell them off' off their actions - which could very well be tantamount to treason!
Is the Dalai Lama really softening his stance? Allowing people to 'choose' for themselves?
Well, you know, rumors spread like wildfire amongst the Tibetans and at the slightest hint of a rumor, it will then be somehow become the truth in the community. Taking this into account, Thutben Jinpa allowing this rumor to persist without trying to clarify it would really damage his reputation and his standing with the Dalai Lama. So if he has not try to vindicate himself yet, it could very well be that this rumor is indeed true. If it is really that this is true, it would mean that HHDL has relaxed the ban of Dorje Shugden, and that this is a herald to a new beginning.
I have it on good authority he has not been to Shar Gaden. :)
I have it on good authority he has not been to Shar Gaden. :)
Hmm? What do you mean you have good authority that he hasnt been to Shar Ganden? If he has not why are there rumors that he went there? From my experience, rumors do not start by its own and it usually comes out because there could be a hint of truth in them. I am wondering of Losang Tenpa, our resident monk in Shar Ganden could confirm this as he is residing there after all and he could give us a definite answer of whether or not Thutben Jinpa has been to Shar Ganden or not. If there is someone on this forum who would know about matters like these, it would be Losang Tenpa.
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.
I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.
I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.
I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.
If indeed this is true, what is most remarkable about this whole incidence is the fact that the Thubten Jinpa was not reprimanded in any way (or was he?). Zemey Rinpoche was not just any DS lama, but one that was very much publicly denounced and despised, mostly for having written the Yellow Book, for for being seen as the one to start the whole controversy about Dorje Shugden. So a prostration to him is not just any prostration to any DS Lama. It can be regarded as highly dangerous and an act of great betrayal
And if indeed it is true that many of the Dalai Lama's students are paying respects to Trijang Rinpoche in his very own ladrang, it is also remarkable that nothing has been said to 'tell them off' off their actions - which could very well be tantamount to treason!
Is the Dalai Lama really softening his stance? Allowing people to 'choose' for themselves?
Dear WB,
Yes I do agree time will tell. Recently I heard from a friend returning from Mundgod that things are not so hostile now in the sense that DS practitioners can go to some shops like normal without the strict discrimination.I think that this is also some progress...promising.
I think that the CTA dependent on HHDL is all some political farce - like good cop, bad cop - so that they have some escape goat if they screw up. I think that this website has a lot to do with the shift in HHDL and what seems to be said and the tone which is used.
I found this article:
Anonymous parcel questions Dalai's role - in The Times of India (december 6, 2012)
[url]http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-06/chandigarh/35646918_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-administration-dorje-shugden[/url] ([url]http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-06/chandigarh/35646918_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-administration-dorje-shugden[/url])
DHARAMSHALA: In charge of local police station has received an anonymous parcel from Singapore which questions the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in Tibetan freedom struggle. While the police officers are not clear on how to deal with the parcel contents, which also contained a video DVD, a security officer of the Tibetan administration said that it was a bid to mar reputation of Dalai Lama and disrupt affairs of the Shugden community.
"We received the parcel on Tuesday evening. It contains a DVD and a letter and the text at the bottom reads - DorjeShugden.net. We are probing the matter," said superintendent of police Diljeet Singh Thakur. The letter reads: "We write to you because this concerns the freedom of Tibet. Please watch the DVD video." The DVD contains a TV news report of June 2009 and talks about prophecies of Dalai Lama and Tibetan future.
The letter questions role of Tibetan state oracle "Nechung" stating that everybody knows that "Nechung has made many mistakes before".
Dorjee Shugden's controversy
The entire Tibetan community has been divided over the Dorje Shugden controversy. This is a segment of the Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden allegedly a dharma protector of the Sakya Gelug tradition. Sources said that believers of Dorje Shugden have been severed from voting rights and have even lost all connections to Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration.
With more pro-active activities like this, HHDL will have to soften his tone... and I hope the CTA will also follow suit. More people should speak up!