Author Topic: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden  (Read 24295 times)

diamond girl

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2013, 04:42:45 PM »
The CTA are just the puppets of HH the Dalai Lama - meaning that though the Dalai Lama has outwardly stepped down from his political role, the CTA would always follow the Dalai Lama's instructions. The Dalai Lama only stepped down relatively recently and it would take a long time for the CTA to find its own footing and be truly independent. This may not happen until the Dalai Lama passes into clear light, again of course we do not wish this to happen for a long time.

It is not really the CTA's fault, if we look at it objectively. They are incompetent because they have no real experience in the political arena. Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay is a scholar, not a politician. However, that said, i have always called for the CTA to lift the ban so that at least on the secular level, it would show that the CTA is independent. They should remove the ban on Shugden practitioners to shop, to go to schools, to travel and have travel papers. What has one's religious practice have to do with all these things???

The Dalai Lama may continue to assert the spiritual ban in that no Shugden practitioner can attend his talks or his empowerments but at least Dorje Shugden practitioners would have access to basic necessities which is the absolute right of ANY human being. It will be interesting to see if the Dalai Lama does go through with what he says, in that he will not criticise Dorje Shugden in public any more. It's not that i doubt this news, but the Dalai Lama could change his mind though since he announced it to the abbots of the monasteries, it will look inconsistent if he went back on his word. I guess time will tell.


Dear WB,
Yes I do agree time will tell. Recently I heard from a friend returning from Mundgod that things are not so hostile now in the sense that DS practitioners can go to some shops like normal without the strict discrimination.I think that this is also some progress...promising.

I think that the CTA dependent on HHDL is all some political farce - like good cop, bad cop - so that they have some escape goat if they screw up. I think that this website has a lot to do with the shift in HHDL and what seems to be said and the tone which is used.

I found this article:

Anonymous parcel questions Dalai's role - in The Times of India (december 6, 2012)
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-06/chandigarh/35646918_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-administration-dorje-shugden

DHARAMSHALA: In charge of local police station has received an anonymous parcel from Singapore which questions the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in Tibetan freedom struggle. While the police officers are not clear on how to deal with the parcel contents, which also contained a video DVD, a security officer of the Tibetan administration said that it was a bid to mar reputation of Dalai Lama and disrupt affairs of the Shugden community.

"We received the parcel on Tuesday evening. It contains a DVD and a letter and the text at the bottom reads - DorjeShugden.net. We are probing the matter," said superintendent of police Diljeet Singh Thakur. The letter reads: "We write to you because this concerns the freedom of Tibet. Please watch the DVD video." The DVD contains a TV news report of June 2009 and talks about prophecies of Dalai Lama and Tibetan future.

The letter questions role of Tibetan state oracle "Nechung" stating that everybody knows that "Nechung has made many mistakes before".

Dorjee Shugden's controversy

The entire Tibetan community has been divided over the Dorje Shugden controversy. This is a segment of the Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden allegedly a dharma protector of the Sakya Gelug tradition. Sources said that believers of Dorje Shugden have been severed from voting rights and have even lost all connections to Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration.


With more pro-active activities like this, HHDL will have to soften his tone... and I hope the CTA will also follow suit. More people should speak up!

beggar

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2013, 05:17:17 PM »
Yes Diamond Girl, I agree that it's important to keep writing letters and making it known to the world, to CTA and fellow practitioners that there are people out there who are still talking, still thinking and still sincerely trying to bring the practice to others, whatever ban there is in place.

The Dalai Lama and the CTA have not allowed nor responded to any requests for dialogue or discussion about the ban. I wonder if perhaps this is another way that the Dalai Lama has perhaps done this as a way to force us talk and think for ourselves. Create dialogue throughout the world and everywhere else, make people understand the issues ourselves and in that way, strengthen our resolve and faith even further. At a time when obstacles are much stronger, much harsher and it's much easier for practitioners to become distracted and get waylaid from the path, the Dalai Lama gave us the toughest obstacle course yet. If we can overcome this, we know we will have everything it takes to accomplish the practice to its fully fruition.

I'm not saying this ban has been a good thing; nor am I saying that it justifies what tremendous suffering people have had to go through. I'm just saying that in light of things being so terrible and so fraught with obstacles, is there something good that CAN come out of it? I'd like to think so.

So we keep writing, thinking of different ways to look at the situation, sending letters to the people who might feel the pressure and eventually do something to better the situation. At the same time, we bring the practice out to the world, strengthen people's faith, education and understanding so that whatever does happen in the future, people can be sure at at least one thing remains steady and strong in their lives, which is Dorje Shugden.


DharmaSpace

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2013, 05:28:22 PM »
Through the website I have learnt so much about the Gelugpa tradition, the lamas behind it and tradition and teachings that make up the rich Gelug tradition. It is dharma to speak the truth and fight the ignorance behind this ban and the ignorance about Dorje Shugden. If we do not make ourselves heard even just through words how can we say we love Dorje Shugden who have done so much for us?

I had noticed a pattern that the Dalai Lama has reduced his condemnation of Dorje Shugden, and now it has led to him stopping to talk about Dorje SHugden altogether. I am a strong proponent and believer of the idea that Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden are working together.

 

Positive Change

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2013, 05:42:28 PM »
As long as there are people who are ignorant about Dorje Shugden and the ban, there is a need to continue to talk about CTA, HH Dalai Lama and the ban.  Talking here does not mean to idle chat but it means to discuss with the correct motivation to reveal the truth about Dorje Shugden and the ban. We must continue our effort to educate the World the powerful and beneficial practice of Dorje Shugden.

There are many ways to continue to promote your practice without talking about the politics.

Just do your practice. that is the best way to show people how effective and real the practice is.

When you talk like this, people will come to your website and the first thing they will think is that Buddhists are more interested in talking about politics than in their practice. There are a lot of people out there who need help and they are looking everywhere for answers. When they look at the Dalai Lama's side, the people there are talking against this practice and talking all about politics. When they look at your side, they also see you talking politics. It's politics everywhere.

You risk turning people off from practice because all they see is political talk and not practice. You may have a good intention and I hear what you're all saying but once you start talking about the CTA, Free Tibet issues and a majority of the things that you are talking about here, you turn this space into a political one. People have their own politics to deal with in their country, in their offices and in their families. They don't need to learn all about politics in religious place also.

You may be speaking up for all the people who are suffering because of this ban, but at the same time, maybe you are putting off a whole lot of other people who could be introduced to the practice but are turned away because they don't like the politics they see. So you have to weigh it out - how many people are you really helping? how many people are you potentially cutting off from the dharma?

I think it is always important to have opposing views of a situation to come to a better understanding of the matter on a whole. One cannot merely just "believe" in one camp without first debating on the matter at hand and coming to one's own conclusion.

That is why the any discourse in this forum is of utmost importance. It is not about hyping up the ban per se but more of understand why, where and what is the cause of it all...

So Karla, I would disagree with you that we should merely just "practice" and let everything else just slide. After all, for evil to triumph, is for good to do nothing!

In highlighting the ban and airing "dirty laundry" in the open is beneficial on a few levels:

1. To have a transparent and unbiased platform to encourage healthy discourse and debate.
2. To highlight the plight of the ones suffering under the ban which many may not even know of.
3. On a secular level is to "promote" the practice through exposure it creates because whether or not one practices, the dharmic seeds are planted!

Dolce Vita

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2013, 12:12:27 AM »
Wow, such a good news to every DS practitioners. I found it to be rather interesting that just when HH Trijang Rinpoche started to surface, to spread Dharma again, HH Dalai Lama decided to stop condemning DS. Is it a sign that the time for DS has really come?

I remember in HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio, it is mentioned that there will be a time when HH Dalai Lama appears to be in conflict with DS practitioners but we should not lose faith in both. I hope truth will be revealed very soon and justice can be given to DS practitioners.

beggar

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2013, 02:26:00 PM »
That is why the any discourse in this forum is of utmost importance. It is not about hyping up the ban per se but more of understand why, where and what is the cause of it all...

Hear ye, hear ye, Positive. I'm glad you put a positive spin on this.

Karla, yes, we can just "go and practice" but I believe that our practices can be enhanced if we have a better understanding of WHAT we are practicing, why and the many issues behind it. This is the basis of debate in the monasteries - to look at every aspect of a practice until we fully understanding it from all angles. So debating about the ban is not just about debating and talking about politics. It is actually to discuss and gain knowledge about our practice, as well as other aspects of Dharma. When you talk about this issue of the ban, it necessarily also calls into question discussions about guru devotion, samaya, the Dharma community, intention, compassion, wisdom etc. There are many, many other aspects to it that are not just about politics. It is a strengthening of our knowledge so that we develop very strong, unshakeable faith in our practice, and thereby gain the best results from it.

Tenzin Malgyur

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2013, 03:08:32 PM »
This is great news to know that HH Dalai Lama will stop condemning Dorje Shugden. Hopefully this will lead to more followers of His Holiness to also stop discriminating and ostracizing DS practitioners. Although our dharma brothers and sisters here are able  to do our DS practice freely, we hope more people everywhere also to get the blessings and protection of Dorje Shugden. We are most grateful to the hardworking team at DS.com to have so much news and information available for everyone. It is indeed very important to be educated and well informed of what is going on so that we do not do our practice blindly. Please continue on with highlighting the ban and its effects, so many more people can see and decide for themselves to continue with their practice or not.

Ensapa

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2013, 08:02:07 AM »
Dear WB,
Yes I do agree time will tell. Recently I heard from a friend returning from Mundgod that things are not so hostile now in the sense that DS practitioners can go to some shops like normal without the strict discrimination.I think that this is also some progress...promising.

I think that the CTA dependent on HHDL is all some political farce - like good cop, bad cop - so that they have some escape goat if they screw up. I think that this website has a lot to do with the shift in HHDL and what seems to be said and the tone which is used.

I found this article:

Anonymous parcel questions Dalai's role - in The Times of India (december 6, 2012)
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-06/chandigarh/35646918_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-administration-dorje-shugden

DHARAMSHALA: In charge of local police station has received an anonymous parcel from Singapore which questions the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in Tibetan freedom struggle. While the police officers are not clear on how to deal with the parcel contents, which also contained a video DVD, a security officer of the Tibetan administration said that it was a bid to mar reputation of Dalai Lama and disrupt affairs of the Shugden community.

"We received the parcel on Tuesday evening. It contains a DVD and a letter and the text at the bottom reads - DorjeShugden.net. We are probing the matter," said superintendent of police Diljeet Singh Thakur. The letter reads: "We write to you because this concerns the freedom of Tibet. Please watch the DVD video." The DVD contains a TV news report of June 2009 and talks about prophecies of Dalai Lama and Tibetan future.

The letter questions role of Tibetan state oracle "Nechung" stating that everybody knows that "Nechung has made many mistakes before".

Dorjee Shugden's controversy

The entire Tibetan community has been divided over the Dorje Shugden controversy. This is a segment of the Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden allegedly a dharma protector of the Sakya Gelug tradition. Sources said that believers of Dorje Shugden have been severed from voting rights and have even lost all connections to Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration.


With more pro-active activities like this, HHDL will have to soften his tone... and I hope the CTA will also follow suit. More people should speak up!


I personally think that this website has actually influenced the CTA and the Dalai Lama on the whole Dorje Shugden issue because before this, there was no voice for Dorje Shugden on the net, at least. But now that there is, all other Dorje Shugden practitioners around the world can come here and share their views and discuss issues. The CTA did respond to some of the ideas here, in a good way (so we do know that they do visit this website and they do read the forums) and we have seen changes like the kalon tripa becoming the sikyong and all. Perhaps it is thanks to this website that someone from Singapore who read this website who sent the materials to the police station in Dharamsala to help generate more news to Dorje Shugden.

shugdenpromoter

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2013, 01:29:08 PM »
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.

I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.

I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.

I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.

Ensapa

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2013, 01:44:07 PM »
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.

I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.

I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.

I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.

This is a very interesting twist to the whole debacle. So why is it that someone so close to the Dalai Lama going to Shar Ganden? Isnt it a place that is filled with Dorje Shugden practitioners that are supposedly HHDL's enemies? Why is it that Thutben Jinpa havent gone in and pay respects to his Guru before but now? Maybe this are the signs that the ban will be lifted soon and these are all the signs that show of this. I am happy to hear of this that HHDL's students are more open these days and they are reflecting his teachings more.

Galen

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2013, 04:30:50 PM »
This is truly very good news!! Does this mean that the Dalai Lama approves of the practice of Dorje Shugden, finally? This will definitely give some relieve to us practitioners and it is a sign that the ban may be coming down soon.

After so many years of condemning the DS practice, the Dalai Lama’s stance is softened. So, what was believed that the Dalai Lama orchestrated this ban so that there will be more awareness and practitioners may be true.

Ensapa

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2013, 01:13:36 AM »
This is truly very good news!! Does this mean that the Dalai Lama approves of the practice of Dorje Shugden, finally? This will definitely give some relieve to us practitioners and it is a sign that the ban may be coming down soon.

After so many years of condemning the DS practice, the Dalai Lama’s stance is softened. So, what was believed that the Dalai Lama orchestrated this ban so that there will be more awareness and practitioners may be true.

It could be that the ban was put on to raise awareness of Dorje Shugden to new heights although it is negative attention, it is still attention after all. one can only deduce that the reason why the Dalai Lama will not speak up against Dorje Shugden anymore is because the time has come for Dorje Shugden to reveal himself to be the main Dharma protector of Tibetan Buddhism after so long and the Dalai Lama himself is a secret practitioner all along and he has not given up his Dorje Shugden practice while 'promoting' Dorje Shugden and he allows his own reputation and influence to drop. How kind of he to help promote in that way.

Zach

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2013, 07:15:18 AM »
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.

I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.

I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.

I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.

Geshe Thupten Jima has not been to Shar Gaden, where did you hear this from ?

beggar

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2013, 08:01:28 AM »
I just heard news recently that HH's official translator Geshe Thupten Jinpa visited Zemey Rinpoche's Ladrang in Shar Gaden. This was during the HH most recent visit to Gaden Shartse. He walked into Zemey Ladrang without any appointment and he made offerings to Zemey Rinpoche's throne.

I was shocked, maybe it is true that HH will stop condemning Dorje Shugden soon. I am sure as an official translator of HH, u will never be caught in Shar Gaden or you will contradict everything HH said about Dorje Shugden.

I have also heard also that during HH's visit that time, many of HH students also paid respect to Trijang Rinpoche in his Ladrang in Shar Gaden. It was done rather openly.

I am happy that the Tibetans in HH side are so open. And I hope to see more of this.

If indeed this is true, what is most remarkable about this whole incidence is the fact that the Thubten Jinpa was not reprimanded in any way (or was he?). Zemey Rinpoche was not just any DS lama, but one that was very much publicly denounced and despised, mostly for having written the Yellow Book, for for being seen as the one to start the whole controversy about Dorje Shugden. So a prostration to him is not just any prostration to any DS Lama. It can be regarded as highly dangerous and an act of great betrayal

And if indeed it is true that many of the Dalai Lama's students are paying respects to Trijang Rinpoche in his very own ladrang, it is also remarkable that nothing has been said to 'tell them off' off their actions - which could very well be tantamount to treason!

Is the Dalai Lama really softening his stance? Allowing people to 'choose' for themselves?


Ensapa

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Re: Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2013, 08:22:42 AM »
If indeed this is true, what is most remarkable about this whole incidence is the fact that the Thubten Jinpa was not reprimanded in any way (or was he?). Zemey Rinpoche was not just any DS lama, but one that was very much publicly denounced and despised, mostly for having written the Yellow Book, for for being seen as the one to start the whole controversy about Dorje Shugden. So a prostration to him is not just any prostration to any DS Lama. It can be regarded as highly dangerous and an act of great betrayal

And if indeed it is true that many of the Dalai Lama's students are paying respects to Trijang Rinpoche in his very own ladrang, it is also remarkable that nothing has been said to 'tell them off' off their actions - which could very well be tantamount to treason!

Is the Dalai Lama really softening his stance? Allowing people to 'choose' for themselves?

Well, you know, rumors spread like wildfire amongst the Tibetans and at the slightest hint of a rumor, it will then be somehow become the truth in the community. Taking this into account, Thutben Jinpa allowing this rumor to persist without trying to clarify it would really damage his reputation and his standing with the Dalai Lama. So if he has not try to vindicate himself yet, it could very well be that this rumor is indeed true. If it is really that this is true, it would mean that HHDL has relaxed the ban of Dorje Shugden, and that this is a herald to a new beginning.