Author Topic: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!  (Read 188646 times)

crazycloud

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2010, 07:34:10 PM »

This will be marked by the birth of Dorje Shugden as the definitive deity in Buddhism and the world. I'm gonna be part of this!


What a thouroughly unpleasant and unrealistic idea!

crazycloud

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2010, 07:36:47 PM »
  Oh Oh, what’s Dharamsala going to do now? .... I can’t wait for the response from TGIE on this news.

Hahahahahahahaha!

Quote
How auspicious we are living at this time!! 


extraordinarily ridiculous.

emptymountains

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2010, 08:22:58 PM »
I just realized that the behaviour of a class of posters actually resembles a Turing Machine, not human beings, I therefore must point this out. For after all, haven't we all seen how there is a repetitious barrage of sameminded blabber, without there seemingly being any semblance of trying to discuss the issues.

Deju vu, indeed!  ;)

emptymountains

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2010, 08:30:35 PM »
The final episode in this elaborate epic reveals how the highest Lamas have each played their part to propel Lama Tsongkhapa’s lineage to its highest peak.

It doesn't seem right for Buddhas to be playing games with people's faith.  :-\

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2010, 08:35:14 PM »


1. Since no one knows where Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen is now, it is premature to say it is not true, or it's a poltical tulku, etc. You haven't seen the stone said to be a diamond yet. It could be and it could not be. So be open since you know nothing of the person nor circumstances.

When it's revealed, then cast your stones if you can at that time. If a great lama recognized this person decades ago (as it said), who are you to criticize? Why do you surpass the lamas when it comes to the Tulku and Oracle system?? You don't like it, fine. Don't criticize. It has served its purpose well among the elite greats who finds the system genuine and beneficial. Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong when it comes to issues you don't like, nor our culture doesn't support? Because Geshe Kelsang doesn't support it, then it's wrong. Well if he's saying it's wrong, then maybe he can be wrong also? Didn't Geshe-la forbid forum use? Then are you Geshe-la's students not listening to what he says and turning things around for your advantage? (This is not meant to criticize Geshe-la or his students, it is to bring a point home please-I have nothing against Geshe-la, and at the same time, everything he believes and does I certainly do not agree with as do many people. But I am not going to come down on him because of those issues I don't agree on-everyone does the best they can. After all, Geshe-la is a normal human being with great learning and karma also. So he can make mistakes, but it does not mean he is bad, or should be disrespected in any way.-Again my apologies to say these things, I mean no offence to the great Monk Geshe Kelsang, in fact I respect greatly. ) Just because Geshe Kelsang doesn't approve or support does not mean it is wrong. Or has no purpose.

2.Who recognized this incarnation of Kyabje Drakpa Gyeltsen? You do not know either. Since you do not know who the lama is, be open and don't judge. What happens if the recognizing lama was the previous Zong Rinpoche, Dagom Rinpoche, Sogpu Rinpoche or even Trijang Rinpoche themselves?

3. Oracles and tulkus may not work in Geshe-la organization and that's fine. But just because Geshe-la does not endorse them, does not mean they have no use. Zong Rinpoche and other high beings found them useful. Trijang Rinpoche blessed monks and people to become oracles. So are you saying Trijang Rinpoche was just doing cheap tricks? Since Trijang Rinpoche is Geshe Kelsang's root guru, it would be good for him not to criticize this practice as it was a practice of his own root guru. If Geshe-la doesn't like the practice, stay quiet otherwise he becomes like Dalai Lama who says Trijiang Rinpoche was sublime except when it came to Dorje Shugden. Trijang Rinpoche during his lifetime recognizes many tulkus for example the previous Dagom Rinpoche who turned out to be a gem. So was Trijang Rinpoche political in recognizing them?

4. Then don't look for the incarnations of Zemey, Trijang, Dagom, Zong, Tendar, Gonsar, Gangchen, Denma Gonsa, Drayab, Panchen, Dromo Geshe, Sogpu, Rabten, Zawa, Dakpo, Pabongka, Daknak, Yongyal Rinpoches. They and many more are tulkus and they turned out fine. More than fine. How many great Geshes with pure monkhood, great learning and practice are arising from the monasteries now? Think? It is a dangerous time. Stop the tulku system within the Gelug and 'erase' all these great names who can do so much, and there is great danger.


So what are you proposing, to not look for any of their incarnations? Not educate them and give them a chance to open the karmas from their previous incarnations? They mess up, mess up. How many ordinary Geshes and monks messed up and disrobed? Countless. Look at Geshe Thupten Jinpa married with two kids. So should we stop the Geshe system and monk ordinations because countless messed up, disrobed and not put their learning/training into use??

What about Gen Samten who was well respected monk and teacher after Geshe-la in Kadampa? He disrobed? So how? The whole system is wrong in Kadampa? How many monks/nuns have left Kadampa? Does that mean it is wrong? Of course not. So stop using negative examples to bring a tradition that worked for the most part. In samsara both ways cannot, so just accept make do. Geshe-la system doesn't fully work. It will be interesting to see what happens to Kadampa after Geshe-la passes away (forgive me for even saying that-apologies).

Don't simply put the tulkus and oracles down. The greats of our lineage that transmit the pure doctrine to us regarded the tulku system with high regard. They also talked to Dorje Shugden via the oracles thousands of times in their lifetimes. Since they are such great teachers, with great intelligence, precise logic, tremendous experience, we should respect what they respect for the most part. If we don't like, we don't have to name what they respect or recognize as hoax, or political or wrong. Then if they are wrong, why practice what they teach? Since they are right, you have beings like Geshe Kelsang existing today.

5. This issue of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen and what happened to him after being strangled is a big issue on the plateau of Tibetan Buddhism for the most part. Maybe it has no followers in the greater part of the world, but if this issue is not big and shattering for those involved, why are we on this forum? Most of the 6 billion ppl on this planet don't give a hoot as to what we are debating about in this forum. So does that mean it is not important? Out of 6 billion ppl in the world only around 360 million are Buddhists. From this number, how many are Tibetan Buddhists? Again how many our Gelugs and in our lineage? Becomea small doesn't it? So what's the point?

The rarity of Lama Tzongkapa's tradition is acknowledged clearly. Numbers doesn't make it not important. If what happened to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was not important and still holds no relevance, then we would all be good friends of Dalai Lama and even perhaps his students? Geshe Kelsang and Dalai Lama would be the best of friends, after all, isn't that what Great Geshes like themselves should be-forgiving, loving, humble and accepting and loving all sentient beings? NOT 'against' each other and having protests against the other? Is that monkly? Samsara has never been perfect. Why look for something that has never existed? View of how you want to be although we are stuck in dualism, lack of merit and zero attainments?

6. There's nothing political about Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen not being able to be silenced. Silenced in this case means to let people think he was evil or became a spirit or not fit to teach. He is back which means those who WERE POLITICALLY MOTIVATED IN KILLING HIM WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL! HE HAS BEEN BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN AND NOW AGAIN and unfortunately all the energy TGIE spent on erasing him did not work.

Be gentle. Don't criticize. Watch. Observe. Reserve judgement till you know the FULL DETAILS OF THIS KYABJE DRAKPA GYELTSEN. He could surprise you and turn out great. If he doesn't then you can open up the 'I hate tulkus, banish tulku system' protests/writings/plarcards/opinions again. For now watch. Observe. Be wise and reserve pre-judgement from one announcement on this website and you know nothing of the intimate details yet.

TK



LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2010, 08:36:47 PM »
I did a quick google search and no where else can this info be found except whatever is extracted from this announcement.

How very surprising.


Not surprising. It is kept secret to protect his life. Dagom Rinpoche's incarnation is in the same situation now.

tk

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2010, 08:46:35 PM »
Taunt is your view. Your word. Your verb. Not their intention. It still is a secret. NO ONE KNOWS WHERE HE IS YET, but HE IS BACK AND DOING HIS JOB. Tantalizing not taunting at all.

Announcing it slowly is to give hope and protect his life. He will emerge. It could be the instructions of the high lamas that recognized him or dorje shugden himself through the oracles to slowly announce and slowly make known. 

Keeping him secret now, let's TGIE know they have failed. And as their 'power' wanes now, and the death of the Dalai lama happens, then their whole merry I hate shugden campaign will fall apart. Then much more safer for this incarnation to appear from what I heard.

tk
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 08:48:26 PM by tk »

DharmaDefender

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2010, 08:54:26 PM »
What confuses me is why people are so up in arms against the tulku system if, like tk has pointed out, the system has identified many great lamas. Again people are applying one view to the entire situation, saying their view is the right view (i.e. Geshe-la doesn't allow it in his organisation, therefore it is wrong for everyone to practise it).

Besides, if people are so against the tulku system, then how did DDG become Panchen Sonam Drakpa, to become TDG? If we should all be wary of the tulku system, then where did Dorje Shugden arise from, if not from the system of identifying tulkus?

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2010, 08:55:16 PM »
Be not as Doubting Thomas!
The Story is still being told children, Keep Quiet until it is finished


LOL. Very sweet and nice. Thank you Protectors Champion.

tk

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2010, 08:56:56 PM »
What confuses me is why people are so up in arms against the tulku system if, like tk has pointed out, the system has identified many great lamas. Again people are applying one view to the entire situation, saying their view is the right view (i.e. Geshe-la doesn't allow it in his organisation, therefore it is wrong for everyone to practise it).

Besides, if people are so against the tulku system, then how did DDG become Panchen Sonam Drakpa, to become TDG? If we should all be wary of the tulku system, then where did Dorje Shugden arise from, if not from the system of identifying tulkus?


Excllent point. I thank you for your patience. Then dorje shugden has no previous lives that were the greats?  The tulku system is wrong? I don't think so.

tk

WisdomBeing

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2010, 09:03:23 PM »
I'm happy to hear the news and am glad that the website admin did not decide to keep it 'secret'.

Why? I am glad to know that such a great Lama has reincarnated in my time. I'm sure he has been reincarnating many times since Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen's time but he has never been open about it. So i feel that by his willingness to be public about who he is, there is a purpose behind it. For such a high lama, the purpose MUST be important and I am guessing that it's all to do with timing. Perhaps the time has come that Dorje Shugden will change his status to be mainstream. Whatever it is, I see it as a GOOD omen so i am happy.

Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen is also Panchen Sonam Dragpa and Lord Dulzin - so i heartily rejoice that such a great being has returned.

Re the tulku system - whether someone has the title of a tulku or not, their qualities will shine. The advantage of the tulku system is that those who are identified as a tulku can get 'fast tracked' in their scholastic study so they can act from their full potential faster. If some tulkus screw up - i don't think it's because they were at fault but that there must be karma from elsewhere which allowed the 'screw up' to happen. For example, Lama Yeshe's incarnation Lama Osel seems to be not at all interested in Dharma. Is Lama Osel a false incarnation? Or is he showing lack of interest because his students and his organisation have abandoned Dorje Shugden?

Lama Zopa mentioned that our Gurus may manifest faults to us so that they can communicate with us in an ordinary aspect (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2931) so perhaps we should not be so quick to judge.





Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DSFriend

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2010, 09:06:37 PM »
H.O.A.X

How sure are you to label it a HOAX?

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2010, 09:10:04 PM »
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The advantage of the tulku system is that those who are identified as a tulku can get 'fast tracked' in their scholastic study so they can act from their full potential faster.

But is this alleged tulku still young?  If not then there's no point of assuming this title at a more advanced age, right?

This tulku was recognized decades ago. Read the write up on the homepage. That means he could of finished his studies and doing deeds now under another assumed name.

tk

Big Uncle

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2010, 09:11:09 PM »
Dear Doubters,

I think we should respect the kindness of this website's admin and team who have gone through thick and thin to provide  the most up-to-date and accurate information regarding what's happening in the Buddhist scene. So far, I have only come across accurate information regarding a great many things and I have the people working on this website to thank for.  

So based on past record, I don't think, they will cook up a story just to get some attention. Why can't Dorje Shugden emanate as a Lama to benefit others? Why do you put your own limitations upon Manjushri himself? Your very doubts on this matter reflects how little faith you guys have on Dorje Shugden. It is sad that some people have limited his powers and so quickly called it a hoax. I don't think we should be so quick to judge at this point when we don't have the full information yet.

Big Uncle

DSFriend

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Re: Dorje Shugden Is Alive and Amongst Us Today!
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2010, 09:13:53 PM »
Is this a mere drama enacted for the sole purpose of driving up forum usage/website ratings?!
Well, forum usage/website ratings increasing would be lovely.  Afterall, this website is and should be for everyone. The details are not reveled yet. Why the negativity?