Author Topic: DS brochure  (Read 213358 times)

Mohani

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2010, 06:37:47 PM »
Thanks spacelike, I agree, we need to spread dharma not deities.  :)

crazycloud

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2010, 07:13:04 PM »
No disrespect towards the person(s) who created it, but I also find this handout...unappealing.

We are not a proselytizing religion, and I think giving this out will makes people dislike and disrespect us in the same way as they do Jehovah's Witnesses and Hare Krishnas.


Mohani

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2010, 09:26:47 PM »
I was thinking that maybe there is a disagreement on this due to cultural differences. If I was to spread this brochure around my city in England I don't think it would be very effective. People here are very cynical and this would probably just make people grasp more strongly to their wrong views.
Putting out nice publicity for meditation classes with a beautiful image of Buddha on and a little blurb about happiness coming from a peaceful mind would be more effective.
Maybe in Malaysia where people are more open to religion these brochures would be more effective.

Love,
Dunc.x

LosangKhyentse

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2010, 09:37:46 PM »
I was thinking that maybe there is a disagreement on this due to cultural differences. If I was to spread this brochure around my city in England I don't think it would be very effective. People here are very cynical and this would probably just make people grasp more strongly to their wrong views.
Putting out nice publicity for meditation classes with a beautiful image of Buddha on and a little blurb about happiness coming from a peaceful mind would be more effective.
Maybe in Malaysia where people are more open to religion these brochures would be more effective.

Love,
Dunc.x


Dear Mohani,

Very deep thinking. The many countries in the east such as India, Thailand, Nepal, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, etc etc  have had very good reactions to these brochures. They have mentioned if translated into their native tongues, it would reach a larger audience my friends have told me!!! Also, businesses in major Eastern cities where stacks of these brochures have been placed, have wanted to put more. The store owners have mentioned many people find it interesting. As they see people taking it one by one. Not someone taking the whole stack to throw. Perhaps the blessings of the Protector.

TK

LosangKhyentse

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2010, 09:42:51 PM »
Fantastic Week!
Have passed out another 4,000 or so brochures this week. More ppl will access this website and gain understanding and awareness of this protector.

Since every part of Dorje Shugden's holy body represents one aspect of the Lam Rim, then whoever views his body will plant the seeds of enlightenment in their minds. I am very happy for that. Through Dorje Shugden I am spreading dharma to many. Since an enlightened being can manifest in form, words, and thought, any connection to them would be beneficial to beings of this degenerate age where their minds would ordinarily never consider dharma.

We all have to spread dharma one way or another no matter how small. Those doing it even through brochures are not the 'enemies' of the devotees of this website. If we have so much to say, perhaps direct it to dharamsala if it needs to be directed at all.

Big dharma, cheap dharma, but dharma is dharma. Whatever your subjective views are. I will promote deities, lam rim, dharma, lamas, images, and whatever I can promote. It doesn't matter to me. Any promotion is a promotion. I am no longer worried what the people in the Tibetan Govt in Dharamsala are going to say or think in our methods to promote Dorje Shugden because their remaining years in power is numbered. Just a few more years and the whole thing in dharamsala will be over. The minute Dalai lama passes (sorry), the people under him will scatter like stones thrown at a group of vultures. That day is coming soon. So the dharamsalites can say what they like. Desperate people will do desperate things when the situation is not going to be in their favor. They are becoming more and more insignificant.

For some the worship of Dorje Shugden will confer attainments, for others protection from three lower realms, for more learning of the dharma and for a few wealth/worldy gains. But leave it to Dorje Shugden's wisdom what he will grant and not grant and to whom. I think we don't need to worry about that. Just spread his lineage. THIS IS A DORJE SHUGDEN WEBSITE....SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH PROMOTING DORJE SHUGDEN, HIS PRACTICE, HIS PRAYERS, HIS BENEFITS TO EVERYONE. Dorje Shugden's practice is dharma. During Ra Lotsawa's time, the majority of the lama elite considered Yamantaka evil, and not a true Yidam. Who says that now. Ra Lotsawa's courage is amazing in the face of his 'dharamsala foes'. Similarily, Dorje Shugden's kangsol contains incredible beneficial practices, but we have to start somewhere.

We can start a Lam Rim website, Mahamudra website, VajraYogini website too. But this is a Dorje Shugden website and promoting Dorje Shugden to the virtuous, greedy, old, needy, sincere, materialistic is what I am here for. Otherwise why have this website and get involved. Everything we can almost possible debate on regarding Dorje Shugden we have debated. There's nothing new to debate on. The court cases in Delhi are a stalemate. What else is there to talk about on a Dorje Shugden website? So perhaps the next step is to do actual legwork to promote him. I have happily spent alot of money towards Shar Gaden, their monks, activities, energy on this website typing hundreds of hours on this forum, doing my kangsol, etc and it cannot be directed just toward a few people ( no offence intended). I have also purchased and distributed over 300 copies of Heart Jewel to many people, institutions and various places also. Will continue to do so. I have never met Geshe Kelsang, but he is one of my heroes.  Now it is time to get to the thousands and thousands out there. And if I look like a jehova's witness to some,  so be it. I am a Dorje Shugden's Witness member. I am fine with it. Those who are not capable for reasons of age, karma, delusions, greed, merits, locality, etc to practise the deep wide dharma, give them some imprints for a future life through Dorje Shugden. May all those who see this pamphlet, let it be so.

Scorn me, mock me, put me down, criticize me, find fault with me, but I will spread Dorje Shugden through pamphlets at this time, sponsoring Shar Gaden, and keeping up my practice. There are more ways and I will do it. And if that is not some sort of dharma, maybe you can do better than me. If you can, I sincerely and wholeheartedly rejoice.

I may accumulate negative karma if people develop wrong views about Buddhism through these pamphlets (and can you PLEASE BE DHARMIC AND NOT LABEL DEROGATORY NAMES LIKE CRAKERJACK handouts please..it's like Dharamsala called our protector Dhogyel), but I may also create positive karma when they accumulate positive views from gaining what they need help on through Dorje Shugden as many more forum members have pointed out and also recipients of the brochure (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=3556&cpage=1#comment-9097)... Not everything is one-sided please. And if the many brochures end up in sewers or in the garbage in the streets, then I accept the karma. I also accept the merit of many whose lives that could be changed. The pamphlets are like statues (samaya being) in a store are not consecrated. The wisdom being has not entered. So it is paper sort of to say.. So we should pull all Dharma books from the shelves of thousands of bookstores around the world. They are not placed at the highest levels to show respect, they are mixed with non-dharma books, not many show respect while browsing through them, the packing, unpacking, mishandling by staff, being placed on the floor, torn, are all negative karma we have to accept to have the dharma books in shelves all over the secular world. That is just an example. So we should not print articles or have pictures on our lamas, Buddhas, Buddhism, Buddhist sites, Monasteries, deities in Time, National Geographic, Newsweek, Reader's Digest, etc because people read those while sitting on the toilets, they are mixed with other secular articles showing great disrespect, and they are placed in offices, homes and kitchens mixed with fashion and other secular magazines. It is very negative karma to print these items in mainstream magazines. Write in, protest, stop the negative karma, have compassion for everyone. Stop printing everything. Not practical. Not logical. Not applicable during these times.

Yes, Mohani is absolutely correct, cultural differences play almost 99% of the differences shown here. And I thank Mohani of thinking deeper. Not all countries will see the pamphlets through a cynical eye I promise you.

If some of you find the brochures so 'bad', then ask our kind webmaster who has done so much and created the most comprehensive Dorje Shugden website in the world to remove it. I personally love the idea of this brochure. May my passing out this brochure with my network of friends quietly without disturbing anyone create more awareness of this sacred protector whose time has come.


TK




« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 09:52:36 PM by tk »

godi

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2010, 10:00:04 PM »
I was thinking that maybe there is a disagreement on this due to cultural differences. If I was to spread this brochure around my city in England I don't think it would be very effective. People here are very cynical and this would probably just make people grasp more strongly to their wrong views.
Putting out nice publicity for meditation classes with a beautiful image of Buddha on and a little blurb about happiness coming from a peaceful mind would be more effective.
Maybe in Malaysia where people are more open to religion these brochures would be more effective.

Love,
Dunc.x

Hi Mohani,
I think your statement very good. The different interprations about the flyer's quality is very probably related to the cultural differences between our continents. Please do not misunderstand me. I am very happy that there are cultural differences around the world but here in Germany people would never ever believe someone who says "Yesterday I prayed to my God/Protector/Saint and today I have more money/intelligence,....." This is interpreted as cult-like and brainwashing.

I think this flyer will sooner or later be taken by one of the vehement critics to proof that Dorje Shugden is a cult.

My suggestion would be to add to the flyer also the main purpose of the Dharma Protector, i.e. to help people solve their problems in the most efficient way, by helping them controlling their mind and thus remain happy also in difficult times, like in times of sickness, poverty and even death.

Regards
Godi
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 10:03:25 PM by godi »

LosangKhyentse

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2010, 10:10:01 PM »
I was thinking that maybe there is a disagreement on this due to cultural differences. If I was to spread this brochure around my city in England I don't think it would be very effective. People here are very cynical and this would probably just make people grasp more strongly to their wrong views.
Putting out nice publicity for meditation classes with a beautiful image of Buddha on and a little blurb about happiness coming from a peaceful mind would be more effective.
Maybe in Malaysia where people are more open to religion these brochures would be more effective.

Love,
Dunc.x

Hi Mohani,
I think your statement very good. The different interprations about the flyer's quality is very probably related to the cultural differences between our continents. Please do not misunderstand me. I am very happy that there are cultural differences around the world but here in Germany people would never ever believe someone who says "Yesterday I prayed to my God/Protector/Saint and today I have more money/intelligence,....." This is interpreted as cult-like and brainwashing.

I think this flyer will sooner or later be taken by one of the vehement critics to proof that Dorje Shugden is a cult.

My suggestion would be to add to the flyer also the main purpose of the Dharma Protector, i.e. to help people solve their problems in the most efficient way, by helping them controlling their mind and thus remain happy also in difficult times, like in times of sickness, poverty and even death.

Regards
Godi


That is why on the brochures, the address of this website is written clearly so they can investigate who is Dorje Shugden and what his real purpose is beyond just a Protector who can help in materialistic ways.

Cults are and were big in the Western continents and not as paranoid in the Eastern continents about it.

And perhaps you can write to the Webmaster to suggest further words in the benefits section of the brochures, so that people in Germany will take a chance and investigate further. Take that extra step and write. More productive.

Thanks.

TK

LosangKhyentse

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2010, 10:13:14 PM »
It may work for Chinese culture.  This is not a judgement but an observation:  Chinese lay people go to temples and offer large joss sticks and pray for good luck, success and health.  So, it reflects a Chinese cultural (not necessarily Buddhist) adaption of Dorje Shugden.

Dear Trinley Kalsang,

You are absolutely right. And there are 1.2 billion Chinese out there I can somehow have the wish to get the brochures to. It is also the mentality in Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Nepal, Hong Kong (China), Phillipines, Japan, India and various other Eastern countries I frequent.

Also I believe in the Eastern European countries and Russia very much the same sort of acceptance like the Chinese. Also in South America.

TK
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 10:24:52 PM by tk »

LosangKhyentse

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2010, 10:22:46 PM »
I just recieved this picture a few minutes ago from my friend who is in Perth airport in Australia at the moment...... This friend is distributing the Dorje Shugden brochures in the airport in the tourist brochures area!!!  This friend is very enthusiastic about distributing the brochures because the idea is great my friend repeatedly told me. My friend has lived in Europe for many years before also.

How energetic and determined.

I thought I'd share this...notice the brochure encircled in red please.

TK

« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 10:26:31 PM by tk »

LosangKhyentse

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2010, 10:34:05 PM »

Another three friends are in Kathmandu. They will be distributing over 1,400 Dorje Shugden brochures in Thamel, Bodha, Patan, Lumbini which are all in Nepal.

They are very devoted to Dorje Shugden. One of them told me his family has greatly benefitted in so many ways after setting up a shrine to Dorje Shugden four years back. The mother, father, brother, sister and in laws does pujas daily to Dorje Shugden in their family shrine. He would like to bring this practice to many more. Hence will distribute the brochures to many. They love the picture inside to keep in the wallet. They feel it is very sacred and very happy to carry it around. They have firm belief keeping the picture of Dorje Shugden near them has great blessings.

Their other friends family will be inviting a 4 ft Dorje Shugden to their home within the next month also. I was so happy to hear this news.

TK

I don't know if anyone has checked on the homepage, but the numbers of visitors have jumped much more than usual since the introduction of the Dorje Shugden sacred brochures for distribution. I have been keeping an eye on this. Many more unique visitors are reading up and gaining more awareness of Dorje Shugden's benefits and our cause. That is why I will distribute thousands more all over.

 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 10:40:26 PM by tk »

spacelike

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2010, 11:49:10 PM »
Good point, Mohani, about cultural differences.  Thank you.  That makes a big difference and those of us in western countries may want to consider that the response to the handout where we live could be quite different from the experience others have had in their respective countries. It's for those who live in or understand asian countries to judge what is or is not a skillful method for those places. However the world is very small now and once something is in print it can take on a life of its own, outside of its original context and target audience.

TK-la, the fact that I have some reservations about the side-effects of the handout doesn't stop me rejoicing in your love of Dorje Shugden and the hours of hard work you must have put into distributing it - no doubt with a very good heart and strong wish to benefit others.

Surely TK's karma depends on his intention?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 12:00:46 AM by spacelike »

spacelike

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2010, 12:17:33 AM »
hi Alexis

I may have misunderstood but i think the point raised about cultural differences was not so much in reference to the karma accumulated by throwing holy images away etc, more to do with the impact the handout might have on people's minds, whether it would help or hinder the public perception of Shugden practitioners.

Obviously it's negative karma to disrespect a holy image, regardless of where you live.

 


icy

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2010, 01:15:12 AM »
Oh Dorje Shugden is in Perth.....how wonderful.....surely someone will pick up that brochure.... minimum benefit even for a moment is a value imprint on whoever will pick it up to see or read it and place it back till the right person with good merits and infinity will take it home to create futher connection.  A skillfull method to benefit people globally I must say.

WisdomBeing

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2010, 01:26:41 AM »
I was thinking that maybe there is a disagreement on this due to cultural differences. If I was to spread this brochure around my city in England I don't think it would be very effective. People here are very cynical and this would probably just make people grasp more strongly to their wrong views.
Putting out nice publicity for meditation classes with a beautiful image of Buddha on and a little blurb about happiness coming from a peaceful mind would be more effective.
Maybe in Malaysia where people are more open to religion these brochures would be more effective.

Love,
Dunc.x

Hey Dunc

Yes - i do agree that Brits can be bloody cynical :P

Could you perhaps design a western version - maybe with French or Spanish or German translation instead of the Chinese so we can distribute it around our part of the world? I'm sure the webmaster would be happy to put up different versions so people from different parts of the world could download one which is more relevant to their culture?

All those who think the current one is too cheap or whatever can do something positive by creating another version - that would be really constructive rather than just slamming what someone else has worked hard to produce for the love of our Protector.

I do like this current red one (maybe i was chinese in my previous life hahaha) but I'd love to see what others - especially the veteran DS practitioners - come up with!!!

Love
Kate
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

vinayafan

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Re: DS 'brochure'
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2010, 02:10:30 AM »
How kind of the webmaster to make this site so accessible and rich with updated unbiased info for ds fans and newbies. TK’s efforts in spreading DS’s protecting and wishfulling powers to everyone is inspiring.
I believe that if one’s motivation, like TK’s is sincere and for the benefit of others , it does not matter if the methods used may not be ideal. Which method is anyway? Until someone comes up with a better one, it’s the best at the moment.
We should all follow TK and some of our DS friend’s determination and pro-active ways to spread the benefits of ds practice. Its far far better than just giving opinions without doing anything however well intentioned..
Let’s be realistic and honest that until we are able to tap into enlightened wisdom and have true realizations, what starts us off and keeps us going in our spiritual practice would be worldly benefits – as someone in the forum said, carrots have its role to play in the minds of ordinary people like us. I have seen many religious people turning their backs on their faith the moment they experience some major losses whether its possessions, money, loved ones or relationships.
DS is like superman who helps us at our untamed level and through meeting him and receiving his help we emulate his qualities. Of course DS is even more super than the man of steel. Even superman cannot help us in future lives .