Do you think the Dalai Lama's ban is an act of a Mahasiddha?

[vajrastorm]

Believing that the Dalai Lama is Chenrezig,we have to go back all the way in the history of Tibet, to the very beginning, when the role of Chenrezig seems to parallel that of Chenrzig today. Chenrzig is believed to have manifested as  Songzen Gampo. As Songzen Gampo, he was a warrior King who vanquished all foes and opposition and united all the different states, under petty kings and chieftains,into a country called Tibet. There was much loss of lives then. But once he had united the country into one Tibet, he began to take steps to develop a language which could be used as a platform to introduce Buddhism to Tibet.Even marrying 2 princesses from China and India was another way to bring Buddhism to Tibet. These princesses were Buddhists and they brought with them statues of the Buddha. Temples were built to house these statues.So, all in all, Songzen Gampo was a bodhisattve king, who was instrumental in bringing Buddhism to Tibet. Yet much violence, involving the loss of many lives had taken place in his time.

As we fast forward to the present,in the Dalai Lama, Chenrezig again appears to be manifesting compassion in the form of the  "crazy wisdom" of a Mahasiddha. Our ordinary conceptual mind cannot fathom the workings of the mind of such a compassionate Enlightened being, .Hence the violence in the wake of the ban, the loss of innocent lives, that does not make sense, has still to be taken in stride, while all await the unfolding of the big picture.


 

 

[Midakpa]

Mahasiddhas are great individuals who have become perfect Buddhas in their subtle mystic bodies but continue to manifest through their “coarse” bodies in order to be accessible to their societies and help fellow sentient beings. To think that H.H. the Dalai Lama is a mahasiddha is our way of justifying the irrational action of imposing the ban that has caused so much suffering. On the one hand, we have great respect for His Holiness because he is Chenrezig. On the other, we do not understand why Chenrezig, the Buddha of Compassion could manifest uncompassionate actions. Hence the justifications. Only time will tell whether His Holiness is a mahasiddha or not. But let's not judge His Holiness with our unenlightened minds. The Buddha, as a bodhisattva in his previous lives, had performed actions that seemed cruel but in the end we realise that they were done out of compassion.

[Rihanna]

Mahasiddha or not, this ban has gotten way too too far! The birth right is taken away. You  can't buy even basic necessities from grocery shops, friends shun each other, monasteries split, Gelugpa lineage is at the brink of collapsing, high lamas excommunicated, children can't register for school, innocent monks physically attacked, Dorje Shugden practitioners live in constant fear.An act of a Mahasiddha? I am sure there are other methods....

[rossoneri]

Agreed Rihanna!!! This plan is gone way too far to even to the extend of a threaten ones life and High Lamas. What example are we showing to the rest of the world for the fact that Buddhism is supposedly practicing love and compassion. We can't even purchase a tooth paste from a non Shugden practitioner's shop and in the other hand we told the world we are practicing love and compassion. We are we actually...

[vajratruth]

As we fast forward to the present,in the Dalai Lama, Chenrezig again appears to be manifesting compassion in the form of the  "crazy wisdom" of a Mahasiddha. Our ordinary conceptual mind cannot fathom the workings of the mind of such a compassionate Enlightened being, .Hence the violence in the wake of the ban, the loss of innocent lives, that does not make sense, has still to be taken in stride, while all await the unfolding of the big picture.
 

I am all in favor of not condemning the acts of the 14th Dalai Lama, not least of all because it was the instructions of Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang. Furthermore it is not necessary to for me to revile a monk in my practice of Dharma and one can attack the unholy ban without having to attack the Dalai Lama himself. However, I am not sure if its a bit of a stretch to regard the events that came close to causing Tsongkhapa's lineage to disappear to be the acts of a Mahasiddha arising out of 'crazy wisdom'.

Without dispute the great Pabongkha Rinpoche was a Mahasiddha as was his teacher the irrefutable mahasiddha, Tagphu Rinpoche. As a well told story goes, one night, Pabongkha Rinpoche dreamt of a person giving him a pot of milk and requesting him to drink it completely. This symbolized that the complete teachings would be transferred to him. Later on, a monk came to see Pabongkha and explained that there were a lot of philosophies in Tibet but not much teaching on Lamrim. The monk offered to be Pabongkha's patron so that he could go and teach which he did. Pabongkha Rinpoche taught in Lhasa and he went every where in Tibet and many people became his students. He propagated Tsongkhapa's Dharma with great zest.

Finally the monk who was Pabongkha Rinpoche's patron returned and thanked him. He told Pabongkha to rest, while he was away at Wu-tai-shan in China. During this time, no one sought Pabongkha Rinpoche requesting Lamrim teachings. Three years later, this monk returned and requested Pabongkha Rinpoche to now to teach Tantra. After this many people requested Tantra teachings. Pabongkha Rinpoche contemplated these events and realised that this monk was in fact Dorje Shugden.

Pabongkha went to see his guru Tagphu Dorjechang, a very special spiritual teacher. Tagphu had a long line of incarnations numbering four or five. The first Tagphu Khacho Uncho while meditating, saw Tara, Chenrezig and they gave empowerments to him. Tagphu Dorje Chang also travelled to the pure lands. Yidams give him initiations such as "Cittamani Tara". He also held the thirteen deity initiation called "Da-pan Na-ja soon".

Mahasiddha Pabongkha asked Mahasiddha Tagphu Dorjechang to go to Tushita where he requested teaching from Je Tsongkhapa. Tsongkhapa lifted the cloth that covered the front of the golden throne he was sitting on and from under the golden throne came the five forms of Dorje Shugden. Dorje Shugden gave to Mahasiddha Tagphu Dorje Chang Tempay Gyaltsen's complete instructions and the Mahasiddha returned to Tibet with this texts. Tagphu Dorjechang gave Pabongkha Rinpoche not only the initiation and lineage of Dorje Shugden, but also all his lineages that he held.

I am not saying necessarily that the Dalai Lama is not a Mahasiddha but I am wondering out loud why would a Mahasiddha work against two undisputed Mahasiddhas, both of whom saw the great importance of propagating Dorje Shugden's practice that the Dalai Lama has tried to destroy? I cannot reconcile this.

We may say that The Dalai Lama's ban was behind the cause of the spread of Manjushri-Tsongkhapa's lineage but in truth that was pretty much due to the efforts of Shugden lamas such as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and Lama Yeshe. We may also say that the Dalai Lama declared a ban so that the enemy-China would take up the practice and spread it but again there is no evidence to support this claim. The Dalai Lama's prohibition of Dorje Shugden came in the 1990's and if indeed the purpose of the Dalai Lama creating a controversy so that China would take up the practice, then His Holiness would have declared a ban before Mao Zedong died in 1976, and when the Dalai Lama's threat to China (with the aid of the CIA in wishing to oppose Communism) was much stronger than it is today.

Moreover if the ban is an act of a Mahasiddha with a divine purpose that our ordinary minds cannot fathom, then why are we opposing the ban and hence the work of a Mahasiddha?

These are just my opinion and it would be interesting to hear everyone's thoughts based on logic and reason and not mere speculations.

[Solomon Lang]

To me, 14th Dalai Lama's purpose in all of this is as a catalyst for thought transformation. Let me explain.

In the 1400’s, the Middle Ages had ended in Europe and thence began the Renaissance which lasted for 300 years. Before this, during the Middle Ages, the Church had authority over most people. During the time people had very few rights. The Renaissance was a big change. European man started to see a new type of art, literature, and science.

Most importantly, European man's view of (European) man changed.

The evidence of this transformation in thought are numerous.  For example, I have read that the painting “Madonna Enthroned Between two Angles”, by Duccio di Buoninsegna, painted during the Middle Ages, was for example done in a religious manner, common during the Middle Ages because that was what the church had wanted. In comparison, the “Mona Lisa”, by Leonardo Da Vinci, showed a new type of art style which had landscapes and three-dimensional figures. Man’s view of man had changed as evidenced by art.

In literature, in the play Hamlet, William Shakespeare wrote “in apprehension how like a god!”. During the Renaissance people were viewed as god/angel-like creatures or as works of art. People were starting to think that they were beautiful people. Compare this with the play Everyman, a late 15th centry English morality play, where the author wrote, “Ye [ man ] think sin in beginning full sweet”.

In the Middle Ages humans were considered to be sinners, and how they were created by god. During the Renaissance, people were becoming god himself from creations that sin. Literature changed man’s view of man by telling people they were beautiful and god-like.

How to create a Renaissance? Make people think and re-think and to me this is the "logic" behind the 14th Dalai Lama's actions.

[Big Uncle]

Mahasiddha or not, this ban has gotten way too too far! The birth right is taken away. You  can't buy even basic necessities from grocery shops, friends shun each other, monasteries split, Gelugpa lineage is at the brink of collapsing, high lamas excommunicated, children can't register for school, innocent monks physically attacked, Dorje Shugden practitioners live in constant fear.An act of a Mahasiddha? I am sure there are other methods....

I like what you have just said Rihanna and the suffering of the Shugden practitioners cannot be denied or downplayed at all. If the Dalai Lama is who he is, he must be working to accomplish something greater like the spread of Dorje Shugden throughout the world through China. May it come to fruition quickly so the ban can come down and release the sufferings of so many Shugden practitioners in India right now.

Many of us foreigners can only imagine the discrimination and suffering experienced by the practitioners there. It's amazing that through everything that Shugden practitioners are going through, many practitioners and high lamas never retaliate or fought back. Incredible samaya, patience, fortitude, faith and trust in the lineage lamas and the protector. 

[icy]

Many of us foreigners can only imagine the discrimination and suffering experienced by the practitioners there. It's amazing that through everything that Shugden practitioners are going through, many practitioners and high lamas never retaliate or fought back. Incredible samaya, patience, fortitude, faith and trust in the lineage lamas and the protector.

I like what Big Uncle said about the adversity that Shugden practitioners are experiencing now, there is no retaliation or violence but there is only clean samaya, patience, fortitude, faith and trust in the lineage lamas and protector.   In this difficult time, it goes to show in this degenerate time, Shugden practitioners are genuine dharma practitioners who uphold and preserve the Buddhadharma well.  In time of this, we can clearly differentiate the quality of "spirit worshippers" and "non-spirit worshippers".  What matter most is the ultimate goal of achievement in the spiritual journey and not the accusation of being "spirit worshippers".  However, the ban must be lifted for the sake of our Shugden brothers and sisters who are suffering due to the persecution.

[Matibhadra]

Do you think the Dalai Lama's ban is an act of a Mahasiddha?

Never heard of any mahasiddhas defaming their gurus, or inciting people to kill themselves, or causing schism within the Sangha.

There were no mahasiddhas who did it on such a global stage but then again, there was no mahasiddha whose influence on global Buddhadharma like the way the Dalai Lama has.

Then, according to you, defaming the guru, causing schism within the Sangha, and inciting people to kill themselves are all fine and dandy, as long as the mahasiddha candidate is a CIA puppet and a Jewish-media promoted celebrity, right?

Most Mahasiddha are ill-understood because their actions go against conventional ideas of what is holy, sacred and the profane.

Who else then is a mahasiddha candidate according to you? Chemical Ali? Osama Bin Laden? Henry Kissinger?

[pgdharma]

HH The Dalai Lama may have used a Mahasiddha approach but I feel that his actions has gone way too far. Families are broken up; DS practitioners are banned from buying groceries from shops, are denied medical assistance, children are banned from entering schools, etc. They are deprived of basic human rights? Even high lamas are excommunicated and some are threatened with violence and death threats. Is that the act of a Mahasiddha?

However, HH The Dalai Lama is an emanation of Chenrezig and he promotes compassion and non-violence. Why would he put his reputation at risk and deal with all the defamation by implementing the ban? Is it to cause uproar as due to the ban Dorje Shugden is widely known and the practice is getting stronger and spreading all over the world? Only time will tell when the ban is lifted and I hope it will be soon.

[herukachoo]

Perhaps I'm lucky in that I don't feel any need to justify the Dalai Lama's actions. I have never been his disciple or admirer, just neutral about him until I found out about his actions in the matter of Dorje Shugden. Surely if a monk rescinds his devotion to his root guru, says that worldly spirits can harm his body and work, and tells lies which set monk against monk, layperson against layperson, our natural instinct as peaceful and truthful people should be to say that he is simply making mistakes? I don't understand why we need to create elaborate excuses. Are we worried that criticising him will lead to harm? I don't want him to come to harm, but I also don't want him to have an undeserved good reputation if his actions are bad. Do we also want to excuse the Fifth Dalai Lama for his war-making, just because he bore the name Dalai Lama? I find this Mahasiddha idea bewildering and think it is tortuous and glamoured rather than accurate. It rather unpleasantly reminds me of Catholic cover-ups, where people's sense of truth has been twisted by wanting to believe that a criminal is holy.

[DharmaSpace]

I do think the Dalai lama is a mahasiddha who has taken the responsibility to spread Dorje Shugden and also Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition.

The Dalai Lama is not a dull person who is not aware of all he has done. He is the top scholar in the world since Je Tsongkhapa's time and he has spread the dharma, far and wide to all over the world plus he has made Buddhism hip hence the centres around the world have benefitted from this teachings and presence. 

He has made contradicting decisions like allowing Trijang Rinpoche to practice, knowing full well Trijang Rinpoche will one day rise up to defend and 'challenge' against his Dorje Shugden policies. The Dalai Lama was Dromtonpa who relied totally on Je Atisha and was the only one who was given the role to preserve the Lamrim teachings from Lama Atisha.

I feel that perhaps to do the work that the Dalai Lama has set out for himself, we the Gelug practitioners and Dorje Shugden need to do more work to lift the ban and collecting the merit for the lifting of theban. So lets put our backs to it and do more for the spread of Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition and Dorje Shugden. The faster we get Dorje Shugden out there the faster we can lift the ban.

[Manisha Kudo]

Haha... I actually thought about Hitler. He was perhaps a great Mahasiddha who agreed through his immensely deep Bodhicitta to act out the negative for us to experience the illusory play of duality. But then again.. what do I know? hee hee

I think if view the DL as a Mahasiddha that is manifesting a a bigger picture that we yet could perceive, then, we just play our part to assist in this mega movie of the ban of Dorje Shugden 

Ok... next someone's going to ask if the ban is a new unconventional way that the Dalai Lama applied for all Shugdenpas to purify their bad karma through the sufferings they experience from it.

I have no doubt that Dalai Lama, is a Mahasiddha... a great, spiritual master. I also know that the Dalai Lama is entangled in politics and the ban is nothing more than a political move. Dorje Shugden is just used as a scapegoat... That is why many people that are smart enough to think for themselves can see through this and continue their practice despite having to listen to so many people slandering our Dharma Protector since a political ban has nothing to do with spirituality.

[Manisha Kudo]

Haha... I actually thought about Hitler. He was perhaps a great Mahasiddha who agreed through his immensely deep Bodhicitta to act out the negative for us to experience the illusory play of duality. But then again.. what do I know? hee hee

I think if we view the DL as a Mahasiddha that is manifesting a a bigger picture, which we yet could perceive, then, we just play our part to assist in this mega movie of the ban of Dorje Shugden 

Ok... next someone's going to ask if the ban is a new unconventional way that the Dalai Lama applied for all Shugdenpas to purify their bad karma through the sufferings they experience from it.

I have no doubt that Dalai Lama, is a Mahasiddha... a great, spiritual master. I also know that the Dalai Lama is entangled in politics and the ban is nothing more than a political move. Dorje Shugden is just used as a scapegoat... That is why many people that are smart enough to think for themselves can see through this and continue their practice despite having to listen to so many people slandering our Dharma Protector since a political ban has nothing to do with spirituality.

[samayakeeper]

I, for one, cannot tell a mahasiddha from an ordinary person. One thing's for sure, the Dalai Lama started the ban and what I can do is to speak up against it. Maybe before the curtain falls, the ending of the drama may be positive to show the whole movie. But for me right now I do what I can to write against the ban, share the practice of Dorje Shugden to as many people as possible. I sure would not want to create more bad karma for myself by disparaging a sangha member, I have plenty to deal with. After all, he wears the maroon robes and holds his vows, I don't.