Author Topic: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !  (Read 7594 times)

vajralight

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Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« on: September 30, 2013, 01:55:41 PM »
I finally found the article on the FPMT / Mandala website:

http://mandala.fpmt.org/archives/mandala-issues-for-2000/january/the-reawakening-of-buddhadharma-in-mongolia/

Quote:

One Tibetan geshe in his late thirties was sent from India to teach monks. He explained that the situation of the monks is not very good. They have about 200 monks; about 60 of they are from Drepung Loseling, but they practice the protector. There are still a number of Mongolians who practice the protector.

The abbot and geshe explained that the monks go home to their families at night and during the day receive teachings and study. They have no money for food, so they have nothing to eat during the whole day. They have no shelter, so they have to go back to their families and risk degenerating their vows. Rinpoche accepted to build shelter for 140 monks and to offer them lunch, but not to the other 60. He feels uncomfortable that they are going against His Holiness’ wishes, but said if they changed their ways he would offer to them, too.



Vajralight

Lineageholder

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 02:41:24 PM »
I rejoice in Lama Zopa's generosity but discriminating against another living being on the basis of their beliefs is called sectarianism.  What he's doing is tantamount to encouraging Shugden practitioners to break their samaya because they need to eat.

If there are two hungry people, surely it's the Buddhist way to feed both regardless of their beliefs?  You don't have compassion based on whether people are fulfilling the wishes of the Dalai Lama or not.  This ban has produced many evil actions.

I was recently going to purchase a book by Lama Zopa but I felt hesitant, knowing his stance on Dorje Shugden. I'm glad I didn't buy it now.

kris

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 03:45:38 PM »
That's the thing I don't understand.. buddhist practitioners are supposed to help those who have committed even the most hideous crime, but refuse to help Dorje Shugden monks? What kind of Buddhists are that?

I strongly believe that this ban or discrimination on Dorje Shugden has "confused" the CTA and made them to take actions to "please" HH Dalai Lama.. and many of these actions are not buddhist at all..

WisdomBeing

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 04:45:29 PM »
Sad to hear about this. I thought Buddhism was about equanimity to all, including the murderers and sinners and satan worshippers etc., let alone Dorje Shugden practitioners. I am sure that there is nowhere in the Buddhist scriptures says be kind and compassionate to all except Shugden practitioners.

However, i think that we cannot just condemn Lama Zopa for this because in his advice book http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2046.msg28955#msg28955, Lama Zopa clearly says that " this doesn’t include gurus who may have practiced the protector in the past. It doesn’t mean that they’re bad. I’m not saying that. If you have already made a Dharma connection with such teachers and you criticize them or give them up, that is totally incorrect; that is opposite to lam-rim practice."

As Lama Zopa was a Shugden practitioner in the past (and possibly privately now too), I do not think that he would really be against Dorje Shugden practitioners but perhaps he was forced to show allegiance to the Dalai Lama in this instance.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Positive Change

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 06:13:40 AM »
It is very sad to read that discrimination is still ongoing at this hour against monks that rely upon the Buddha Dorje Shugden.
 
I would like to engage all of Lama Zopa students to read the information contained here on this website and debate it within their community.

After all, Buddhists are truth seekers, and nothing else than the truth can prevail eventually.

Lama Zopa is a highly respectable and accomplished teacher of this modern world, but he is taken hostage by a ban that has for its reason the very future of Buddhism and in particular of the Tibetan Buddhism, the Gelug School, the teachings of Nagarjuna and Atisha as clearly explained by the Great Lama Tsongkhapa.
 
And Lama Zopa knows of this, this is my conviction.
 
The only way I can explain to myself that Lama Zopa acts in a manner preventing Dorje Shugden monks to access sponsorship, is that He acts out of Guru devotion and certainly not from the belief that Dorje Shugden is a demon.

Why? Because if Dorje Shugden was not a Buddha, then Lama Zopa Rinpoche's very Gurus were wrong and unreliable, with the consequence of making Lama Zopa himself questionable as a reliable lineage holder.

I plea to Lama Zopa Rinpoche to grant access to sponsorship to the monks that rely upon Dorje Shugden as a matter of compassion and generosity, and I say this in all humility and with great deference to Lama Zopa.
 
May Lama Zopa live long and bless many more.
 
Read here:
 
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/some-good-advice-from-lama-zopa/
 
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/others-old/lama-zopa-admitted-to-being-recognized-by-dorje-shugden/
 
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/recognized-by-dorje-shugden-but-speaks-against-dorje-shugden/
 
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/lama-zopa-received-dorje-shugden-initiaiton-from-trijang-rinpoche/
 
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/lama-zopa-worships-trijang-rinpoches-stupa/

Rinchen

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 03:20:38 PM »
I too believe that Lama Zopa is still practising Dorje Shugden privately. He stopped his practices due to the pressure that he received from his students.

This article may or may not be truthful, we can only believe the article to a certain extend. I believe even if the article is true on what is going on, Lama Zopa is only doing this to please someone, or even be under the instructions of Dorje Shugden himself. Through all these actions it might be for a bigger reason that we may all not know, only Lama Zopa and our protector knows.

vajratruth

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2013, 05:27:23 PM »
I rejoice in Lama Zopa's generosity but discriminating against another living being on the basis of their beliefs is called sectarianism.  What he's doing is tantamount to encouraging Shugden practitioners to break their samaya because they need to eat.



I agree with you Lineageholder. It is a complete tragedy for someone who is supposed to be highly learned  as Lama Zopa to show actions which I am sure runs contrary to a few of the vows that he would be bound to. Regardless of Bodhisattva vows, it is not an action that arises out of Bodhicitta, to refuse to help and give food to starving monks just because they are Shugden practitioners. Lama Zopa could have seen it another way i.e. these 40 monks are practicing strong guru devotion and that is the core of the practice. Should they be penalized for being devoted their gurus and lineage masters? Should they be denied merely for practicing Dorje Shugden whom Lama Yeshe himself was a devout believer of.

Refusing to help starving monks is as good as creating the cause for them to disrobe. Is that not against the practice of a Bodhisattva? Where does it say in any of the vows that compassion must make way for political expedience. In addition, it is not wrong to practice unfair policies - to favor one party over another because they are more aligned to one's political view.

My understanding of compassion is that it has to be applied to demons, spirits and even those who may not be practicing Dharma. For a high lama with many followers to be practicing such discrimination is tantamount to endorsing similar discriminations. I am not sure if Lama Zopa truly believes that the practice of Shugden is bad or demonic and I have always felt that he was arm-twisted into supporting the Dalai Lama's policies. But I am saddened to read that Lama Zopa whom I personally had a high regard for, would compromise kindness choosing instead to be politically correct.

I cannot but compare Lama Zopa's decision to turn away these 40 monks with the late Penor Rinpoche's compassion act of opening up his Namdroling Nyingma Monastery so that nearby Shugden monks could get supplies and sustenance when these monks were turned away from their own Gelugpa monasteries [see: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/hh-penor-rinpoche-sympathetic-to-dorje-shugden-monks/] Penor Rinpoche was not even a Gelugpa monk but that did not hinder him him from  giving help to Gelugpa monks when they badly needed kindness. That to me, was an act of compassion totally void of any fear of repercussions from the Dalai Lama.

lotus1

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2013, 09:09:49 PM »
It is very sad to hear about this. Buddhists have always been taught to have compassions to all beings. How could the Shugden monks are not considered as beings and not been shown compassion??!! I just can’t comprehend this.
In addition, Buddhists are also taught to show respects and make offerings to monks as this would generate tremendous merits and blessings. How come the monks, the practitioners of Buddhism, would discrimination of denying food and shelter to another monks just because they practice Dorje Shugden???!!! What kind of examples are they showing??!!


samayakeeper

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 04:03:50 PM »
Perhaps he was 'forced' but still feeding some people and not feeding others just because they practice guru devotion by continuing with their Dorje Shugden practice tantamount to be selective. Either everyone is fed or none at all, that is fairness. Where is the compassion? I have seen photos and read of Lama Zopa's compassion to animals. But why this?  ???


Sad to hear about this. I thought Buddhism was about equanimity to all, including the murderers and sinners and satan worshippers etc., let alone Dorje Shugden practitioners. I am sure that there is nowhere in the Buddhist scriptures says be kind and compassionate to all except Shugden practitioners.

However, i think that we cannot just condemn Lama Zopa for this because in his advice book http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2046.msg28955#msg28955, Lama Zopa clearly says that " this doesn’t include gurus who may have practiced the protector in the past. It doesn’t mean that they’re bad. I’m not saying that. If you have already made a Dharma connection with such teachers and you criticize them or give them up, that is totally incorrect; that is opposite to lam-rim practice."

As Lama Zopa was a Shugden practitioner in the past (and possibly privately now too), I do not think that he would really be against Dorje Shugden practitioners but perhaps he was forced to show allegiance to the Dalai Lama in this instance.

vajratruth

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 04:42:40 PM »
Perhaps he was 'forced' but still feeding some people and not feeding others just because they practice guru devotion by continuing with their Dorje Shugden practice tantamount to be selective. Either everyone is fed or none at all, that is fairness. Where is the compassion? I have seen photos and read of Lama Zopa's compassion to animals. But why this?  ???


Samayakeeper, therein lies the real tragedy. That well meaning and honest monks were coerced into breaking vows and with considerable ease anyone should be able to name  a big handful of vows that have been broken by the ban, and in supporting the ban. I can only imagine that Lama Zopa made a really tough decision to keep FPMT on the "good" side of the Dalai Lama. We have seen how the exiled Tibetan establishment destroyed those who did not toe the line and perhaps Lama Zopa felt he had to make a sacrifice in order to keep what Lama Yeshe had built.

Having said that, and will all due respect to the FPMT, what good is a large Dharma centre if its is void of all that makes a centre true to the Dharma? FPMT may have survived the Dalai Lama's purge, but it is a centre wherein the incarnation of its holy founder, Lama Osel has refused to be a part of. How can any amount of real estate and quantity in membership replace true devotion to the Guru and obeisance to the Buddha's instructions?

One can twist it however one chooses but in the final analysis, a highly loved lama has been forced to deny the Sangha food and sustenance for fear of upsetting a higher authority. No a very good representation of what the Dharma intends.

pgdharma

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 07:43:13 AM »
Like a mother who protects her child, her only child, with her own life, one should cultivate a heart of unlimited love and compassion towards all living beings.  — The Buddha

So why the discrimination? Buddhist practitioners are supposed to cultivate bodhicitta towards all living beings.  So does it mean that Dorje Shugden practitioners are not living being and should be neglected?

In Buddhism, practitioners are taught to show high respects for monks and to make offerings to them in order to collect merits, so why this monks who are Dorje Shugden practitioners are denied with food and shelter?

Blueupali

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2013, 07:57:24 PM »
This is an example of how the Dalai Lama's policies result in misinterpretation of dharma.
  Some people, who have no idea about Dorje Shugden will believe anything; a lot of them also suffer from a general lack of logic.  So, when they are taught that we are non-virtuous for chanting prayers, then they feel that by helping us to chant, that they commit a non-virtuous act.  They mistakenly think that the act is non-virtuous is only the first problem.  Even if someone is engaged in non-virtue, we as Buddhists do not cause them to starve; the idea that they will keep us from the lower realms by ending our practice, and that anything is jusfified to end our practice is the problem.  So feeding people who go against HHDL's wishes is considered non-virtuous.  So, helping end the practice, even by any means, is considered virtuous, by some confused people.  Even when people are in war, we do not need to harm them to stop the war; we can talk to them to stop the war and discourage the war.
  The main problem is that people are afraid to go against what the Dalai Lama says; even when the Kagyupas wanted to pick their own leader, as they have always done in the past, there are some that are angry with Shamar Rinpoche's Kagyus for supporting the right of the lineage holder to find Karmapa.  In Delhi, years ago, I was nearly spit on by people loyal to the Dalai Lama; I had not yet even heard of the Shugden practice, but was studying with the Kagyupas; since they always asked 'who is your lama' then it's kind of hard for them not to know who your with.... so if any of us say that we support the rights of Buddhists to choose their own lamas in their traditional way, say their own prayers etc., then the really fanatical among the Dalai Lama crowd get very confused and say we are bad for opposing his holiness.  they sometimes feel any action is justified against us, to keep us with the Dalai Lama's wishes.
  I am sorry, but when I look at the Tibetans that would do violence to support their lama, I feel sad.  For instance, there are pictures in on the western Shugden Society website of Tibetans who were willing to go to war for the Dalai Lama.  I think, would I go to war for Karmapa?  I know in my heart Karmapa would never want us to harm even a mosquito, let alone someone with a human rebirth.  The same is true for all the teachers I have ever taken, and dharma protectors as well; they love all living beings.  How impossible to harm living beings to please or help any Buddha.

vajrastorm

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 09:11:11 AM »
It is sad to read about monks, who are Shugden practitioners, being treated as outcasts and not being offered even basic shelter and food by Lama Zopa. This means that the 60 monks who are affected may have their vows degenerate because they will not to able to stay in or near the monastery but must go home to their families.The reason Lama Zopa gives is that " he feels uncomfortable that they are going against His Holiness' wishes, but if they change their ways, he would offer them(food and shelter) too".

Yet, thinking about Lama Zopa's deep devotion to his Guru, Lama Yeshe, i am inclined to think that he is just 'mirroring' his students' minds and attitudes and behavior in all his words and actions  .Even his manifesting a stroke is like a 'teaching' to them. Isn't it time for them to see how Lama Yeshe's incarnation is not coming back to head their center and the significance of this?
 


brian

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 11:24:31 AM »
It is very sad to hear such news but I do not know the true extend to this matter. Probably Lama Zopa would not know about this. I put the blame onto the monks who take charges of the monastery. It is such disgrace to not feed your fellow Sangha members. Everyone would have their practice that they believe benefits them. If from the reason that they do not follow your instructions of not doing the particular practice and you do not feed them or lending any sort of help to them, then it is a huge disgrace to you. Shameful and no genuine monks would want to do that seriously.

Tenzin Malgyur

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Re: Lama Zopas doesn't feed DS practitioners !
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 08:16:54 AM »
Its real sad to read of news of this sort. There are still monks who are being ostracized because of their insistent to continue with their practice of Dorje Shugden. Even though they were put through all these situations, they continue to remain as Sangha. Far as I remembered, Lama Zopa was recognised by Dorje Shugden, so why would he not want to support sangha who are DS practitioners? Just like Brian, I suspect this matter of not housing and feeding the DS practicing monks are being kept out of Lama Zopa's knowledge.