Author Topic: "Pure lineage", "Pure teachings", "Authentic", "Qualified"  (Read 5837 times)

psylotripitaka

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"Pure lineage", "Pure teachings", "Authentic", "Qualified"
« on: December 06, 2012, 08:40:30 AM »
These four words are used often. Generally, I am interested to hear what people think about these words, but I am especially interested in them in relation to how they appear in the controversy.

We hear, read, and say that Dorje Shugden protects the "pure doctrine of Je Tsongkhapa", and there's this whole thing about "not mixing lineages". For the sake of debate and to tease out what people think these words mean precisely, I would present the following:

Lama Tsongkhapa was a Rime yogi having received transmissions of many lineages. There's talk of not mixing with other lineages, yet we see for example, His Holiness Gyelwa Ensapa incorporate the Amitayus lineage from the Kagyu into the Gelugpa. Lama Tsongkhapa didn't incorporate it, so how is it the pure lineage of Je Tsongkhapa then? (A side note: There is a Secret Hayagriva practice transmitted by Lama Tsongkhapa, so what's all this non-sense about the Protector harming people who practice Nyingma teachings. Such nonsense!

Anyways, if the Gelugpa lineage is a union of many lineages, and various practices have been incorporated into it throughout the years by various lineage Lamas, why is there so much emphasis and talk of Dorje Shugden protecting the "pure lineage" and harming practitioners that "mix"?

Ensapa

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Re: "Pure lineage", "Pure teachings", "Authentic", "Qualified"
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 10:17:28 AM »
These four words are used often. Generally, I am interested to hear what people think about these words, but I am especially interested in them in relation to how they appear in the controversy.

We hear, read, and say that Dorje Shugden protects the "pure doctrine of Je Tsongkhapa", and there's this whole thing about "not mixing lineages". For the sake of debate and to tease out what people think these words mean precisely, I would present the following:

Lama Tsongkhapa was a Rime yogi having received transmissions of many lineages. There's talk of not mixing with other lineages, yet we see for example, His Holiness Gyelwa Ensapa incorporate the Amitayus lineage from the Kagyu into the Gelugpa. Lama Tsongkhapa didn't incorporate it, so how is it the pure lineage of Je Tsongkhapa then? (A side note: There is a Secret Hayagriva practice transmitted by Lama Tsongkhapa, so what's all this non-sense about the Protector harming people who practice Nyingma teachings. Such nonsense!

Anyways, if the Gelugpa lineage is a union of many lineages, and various practices have been incorporated into it throughout the years by various lineage Lamas, why is there so much emphasis and talk of Dorje Shugden protecting the "pure lineage" and harming practitioners that "mix"?

The pure doctrine of Je Tsongkhapa is his system of teachings, namely the Lamrim (sutra) and the Ngarim (tantra) systems, in general. Since they are a system, it would make sense that we do not temper or try and add something else into the system that would distort it or render it meaningless. If you want to talk about Tsongkhapa being Rime, you would also want to talk about gorampa who opposes Tsongkhapa's doctrine and he was hailed as a 'scholar' by many 'rime' people. How would you be able to reconcile between Tsongkhapa and gorampa's views? Or would you go crazy just trying to make sense of both? Hence, the purity of the teachings simply means: dont mess with the teachings and the system and add what we like.

I know of the secret hayagriva. unlike the nyingma version, the Gelug hayagriva does not have wings.

Of course when you want to talk about masters who are already up there such as Tsongkhapa, Gyalwa Ensapa (not me), Tapu Dorjechang, Pabongkha Rinpoche etc adding and refining the system, there is no problems there because they are already attained and their attainments are not reversible and what they teach or add or modify can only bring benefit.

psylotripitaka

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Re: "Pure lineage", "Pure teachings", "Authentic", "Qualified"
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 10:37:23 AM »
Excellent.

And, their additions are rooted in the original scriptures and authentic vision born of realization.


Ensapa

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Re: "Pure lineage", "Pure teachings", "Authentic", "Qualified"
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 11:13:55 AM »
Excellent.

And, their additions are rooted in the original scriptures and authentic vision born of realization.

Also an added feature of the Gelug is that, everything must come from a source teaching. Each time a Gelug teacher teaches, he would usually cite the source of the teaching and where he received it from because we cant just make teachings up. This is also what the historical Buddha taught as well which is why in every sutra there is this phrase called 'thus have I heard'. My own precious Guru tells us the source of each and every teaching and he stresses that point very much.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: "Pure lineage", "Pure teachings", "Authentic", "Qualified"
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2015, 04:45:30 AM »
Je Tsongkapa studied with many Great Masters of His time from different doctrines in Tibet and upon deep contemplation and realisations redefined the teachings and created the Gelug tradition.

Masters of Je Tsongkapa's doctrine and lineage will define the orginal source from Je Tsongkapa as pure teachings.  From then on preceding Masters who studied Je Tsongkapa's teachings can redefine the teachings to suit the ever changing times and minds then present.

As our Guru will say, it is always important while giving Dharma teachings to cite the source and that will qualify the authenticity of the teachings.

Pure lineage is that the masters are from the original lineage which can be traced back to Je Tsongkapa. Redefined teachings from original source is for the betterment of understanding for the current and present students.

Therefore it can be concluded that we are still studying and practising the Pure Lineage.