Author Topic: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden  (Read 21200 times)

nagaseeker

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POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« on: April 12, 2012, 07:26:59 AM »
what would you do ?????     
 :o :o :o :o :o

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OM BENZA WIKI BITANA SOHA

Big Uncle

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 05:20:44 PM »
Sorry, I can't really answer with a single answer. I don't think I can give up the practice because after learning all there is to learn about it here on this forum. Perhaps, I will have to practice in secret and find ways to gain the permission to practice it again. Perhaps, it is a test from our Lama. I will definitely not give it up if the practice was given to me by another Lama. One Lama cannot override the instruction of another Lama. No Lama is higher than another.

Zach

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 05:30:41 PM »
All my teachers have the same line and only practice Dorje Shugden so it wouldn't happen, If you are in a tradition where there are mulitple Dharmapala's and you have only one Guru you do what he tells you.

Ensapa

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 05:59:54 PM »
If the Lama has not authorized me to do his practice, I wont get any blessings anyway and he wont come and help me anyway because it is all through the permission and instruction of the Lama. The Lama will always rank higher than the protector and without the Lama's prior permission, if you already have one that is. It is never wise to go against the Lama's instructions.

Since the protector takes orders from the Lama in the first place, naturally without prior authorization or permission from the Lama he will not be able to help much. Also, why are we going against our Lama's instructions? Are we not supposed to have Guru Devotion? If we defy our own Lama deliberately, why would the Dharma protector still protect us?

Lamas who have passed down Dorje Shugden will clearly not retract it for whatever reason as it is not something that you can take back at will, and there is no reason for a Lama to take back the Dorje Shugden practice from the students unless the students have been misbehaving or has been misusing the practice to swindle or mislead others...

So in other words, a Lama will never tell his students to stop practicing Dorje Shugden, but even if he does and the students do it anyway, why would it be that Dorje Shugden still helps those who transgress the Lama? Obviously he will not because he will not help those who have no Guru devotion. In fact, no Dharma protector will help anyone who go against their own Lama.

Q

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 06:14:44 PM »
I have the fortune to meet my Guru, and I only have one Guru... So if my Lama tells me to stop practising DS, then by all means I will... because I view my Guru as the highest of all.

However, if in the event i meet another lama by chance, and he/she tells me to stop practising when I actually got the practice from my root Guru, obviously I would never give up a practice that was passed down to me from my compassionate Guru... Never. Not just DS practice, it is for any practice in general.

Carpenter

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 07:13:33 PM »
Lama is someone who teaches us Dharma, without a Dharma Teacher, we would not be able to find the way to enlightenment, so before we engage to a Dharma teacher, we would have already check him out and confirmed he is the one.

Whether Dorje Shugden is a Buddha or not, it doesn’t matter, because even a Buddha can’t teach us Dharma. Therefore, we need a Lama. As to demonstrate a good example of Guru Devotion, we are, and we must not have doubt about our Lama, about his instruction, because our attainment is not as good as they are. Buddha is a vehicle, but Lama is the driver, without driver, we can’t reach the location. There are so many Buddha and Protector, not all are suitable to us. So when our Lama say we can’t do this, we can’t do that, we can only follow.

Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 09:16:51 PM »
My Lama would have never asked a student to refrain from any practice for which they were empowered. Any Lama who does so is bowing to political pressure and, in so doing, is demonstrating their lack of worthiness as a Lama. 8)

pgdharma

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 10:27:59 AM »
A Lama is a teacher who teaches us the dharma; guide us in our spiritual journey towards enlightenment. So we should not have any doubt of him.  If my lama were to ask me to stop practicing Dorje Shugden, I will listen to his advice and give up the practice. However, knowing that Dorje Shugden is such a powerful protector, my Lama will never ask me to give up on this practice.

Ensapa

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 12:05:06 PM »
I think we are all forgetting something, that the Lama will ask the students to stop practicing if our motivation to petition the protector was a selfish one that damages ourselves and others in the long run. Why would the Lama want to give the students a Dharma practice to increase the greed, hatred and delusion of the disciples? The Dharma protector is powerful, but so are the negative karma and delusions of some people.

I have seen my omniscient Lama stop and discontinue certain Dharma practices that were taught to some of his students, but the students manifested difficulties and in the end, he destroyed the ritual items with his own hands and threw them away and ordered them to not talk about them anymore. It was out of compassion as the practices were causing more harm than good as the students have not been open about their faults.

Dorje Shugden's practice can never cause harm, but the benefit is very little when done without the permission of the Lama as well. If the Lama stops it, it is due to the overwhelming amount of obstacles from the students, rather than that the practice is bad or that Dorje Shugden is not powerful. Perhaps when the Lama does this, we should really reflect on ourselves?

Last but not least, since the Dharma protector follows the orders of the Lama, what do you think will happen when the Lama tells the students to stop practicing but they do anyway? No blessings or effectiveness or there will be very little. Please consider that point as this is a very important aspect of understanding the importance of Guru devotion and the teachings.

dsiluvu

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 01:16:47 PM »
I think I would stop the practice if the Lama says stop. It is simple because the practice came from the Lama in the first place. The practice of Dorje Shugden will have no blessings to us in any way if we continue to practice without the "Guru's" blessings/permission. As we all know the in all our practice, we need the blessing from our Lama and yes our Lama is like the living, walking, talking Buddha. So we actually do not need more.

I take the example of Samdhong Rinpoche's case where he followed his Guru, Trijang Dorje Chang to serve the Dalai Lama all the way while he was PM and give up his practice http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8656

However if it is another Lama, and not my root Guru, probably I won't. I will need to ask my root Guru first! The Guru that gave me the practice, that would only be wise.




Positive Change

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 02:37:15 PM »
As mentioned here in almost all posts, or Lama's instructions are pivotal and crucial in our practice. We do EXACTLY as our Lama prescribes... If it means giving up Dorje Shugden practice, then the Lama would have a very good reason. Reasons probably beyond our selfish thoughts and understanding.

My Lama is the one I took refuge from and hence whatever practices and empowerments are only efficacious when it has the blessings of the Lama. Any other instances would not bring any attainments. Blessings perhaps as reciting mantras of Buddhas are certainly good. But without the blessings of our Lama, they are merely blessings and nothing more.

So always follow what your Lama tells you, even when things seem "complicated", "unfair", "unjust" and beyond one's own comprehension.   

bambi

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2012, 09:26:26 AM »
Well... I am pretty sure that if my Lama tells me to do so, He wouldn't be telling me to do so without a valid reason. Before I take refuge in a Guru, I would've checked Him out first.  Therefore, I would have complete TRUST in my Guru and I will trust Him completely with my life and practices.

Even in my secular job, I wouldn't listen blindly to what my boss tells me unless I trust him completely and respect him well enough.


DSFriend

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 10:53:13 AM »
To get any practices especially in tantra, we need to rely on a Guru. The practice comes from the Guru. If the practice comes from the Guru then I'd think the Guru can take the blessings away to practice as well.

As is taught, the Guru is the root of all attainments. So if we continue to practice thinking that we will achieve any form of attainments then this statement is false.

Manjushri

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2012, 02:28:29 PM »
To me it is very simple. Since all attainments arises from one's guru, and an instruction was passed to me, I will follow. It is said in Ashvagosha's 50 verses of guru devotion

"Always keep your word of honour. Always make offerings to the Enlightened Ones. Always make offerings also to your Guru, for he is the same as all the Buddhas."

"It is from your Guru that powerful attainments, higher rebirth and happiness come. Therefore, make a wholehearted effort never to transgress your Guru’s advice."

If for any reason my guru has asked me not to practise DS or anything at all, he would have his reasons. He has the clairvoyance and wisdom to see past current situations, and into the future. Since I have chosen my guru to be my guru, then why doubt any further after initial investigations? If you do doubt, then it would mean that you have doubts in your own analysis too.


hope rainbow

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Re: POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2012, 03:07:29 PM »
I don't think that there can be no blessing in continuing a practice (in secret) when it has been removed from me by my root Guru.

There can be no blessing, for if we think there can be, it is contradictory to Guru devotion, it is contradictory to karma.
My Guru is more potent than Dorje Shugden in this that the karma I have with my Guru is what can make me connect with Dorje Shugden or what can block Dorje Shugden to reach me.

Not that my Guru or Dorje Shugden want to help me or don't want to help me (of course they'll do anything to help), it is that I create a karma that blocks the access.

If I lock my door and close all the shutters, how can the sun come in?

It is then up to me to change that karma, and of this I am certain: if my Guru ever removes the practice of Dorje Shugden from me it is because He knows that I am capable to create the causes to get the practice again. And what I do to create these causes may be more powerful for me now, more beneficial.