Author Topic: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa  (Read 27637 times)

hope rainbow

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2012, 02:46:14 AM »
I don't believe Lama Zopa would abandon something that his Gurus have given him. HHDL did ask him to stop practicing openly but never commanded him to cut off his practice.
That does not mean that the center has to stop practicing, or even having to be crusaders that assault and persecute Dorje Shugden practitioners.
They could have just allowed their members to practice out of choice and not make nasty statements against those who do or forbid them.

Perhaps Lama Zopa did follow his Guru's instruction when he decided to follow the Dalai Lama's instructions, just as Samdhong Rinpoche did.
So, when the Dalai Lama requests of him to stop the practice, then he stops the practice... officially...
We know it is the case with Samdhong Rinpoche because He said so, for Lama Zopa, we do not know.. yet..

That's be interesting, right?

triesa

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2012, 04:04:53 AM »
I don't believe Lama Zopa would abandon something that his Gurus have given him. HHDL did ask him to stop practicing openly but never commanded him to cut off his practice.
That does not mean that the center has to stop practicing, or even having to be crusaders that assault and persecute Dorje Shugden practitioners.
They could have just allowed their members to practice out of choice and not make nasty statements against those who do or forbid them.

Perhaps Lama Zopa did follow his Guru's instruction when he decided to follow the Dalai Lama's instructions, just as Samdhong Rinpoche did.
So, when the Dalai Lama requests of him to stop the practice, then he stops the practice... officially...
We know it is the case with Samdhong Rinpoche because He said so, for Lama Zopa, we do not know.. yet..

That's be interesting, right?

I do believe chances are high as what you said HopeRainbow. After all, Lama Zopa has never condemned DS practice not the practitioners, he just outwardly does not practise it. I strongly believe he is secretly continuing this practice given to him by his Guru Lama Yeshe. A couple of months ago, Lama Zopa was seen doing prayers in front of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's stupa, that said something subtly already!

This only shows one thing....that DS practitioners are for harmony and peace, and they strictly follow thier guru's advice, they dont want to mix religion/spirituality with politics becasue all they want is attainments and not to look "goody two shoes" .

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2012, 04:31:48 AM »
It is interesting how much this news revealed.  I believe and after reading all the comments, it is obvious Lama Zopa practises Dorje Shugden, otherwise how could monks from his center seek to have a Shugden puja for him.

Another thing that also shows is that many of FPMT monks also practice DS but had to keep quiet in order to tow the "party line" of conduct.

I feel so much pain and anxiety for the monks who approached Phelgye Ling monastery, being refused and having to run around to ask help elsewhere.  Thank goodness that they managed. DS is compassionate and found a way for these monks.

How can all DS practitioners rally together to have the ban lifted to alleviate so much suffering. To prevent great lamas like Lama Zopa to manifest bodily harm to awaken his students and practitioners.

dondrup

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2012, 07:35:03 AM »
Till today, the ban on Dorje Shugden (DS) has created so much suffering on the DS practitioners of all levels.  Out of ignorance, FPMT’s administration or governing body had chosen to go along with the ban.  FPMT had in fact gone a bit too far as policing others and restricting others’ freedom to practise. What right have FPMT to stop other centres and individual practitioners their freedom to practise DS?   

Hope Rainbow is right about the “Preservation”.  Dorje Shugden is part of the Mahayana Tradition. How can FPMT preserve the Mahayana Tradition if you ban your lineage practice? FPMT is no longer FPMT because your action on DS had invalidated FPMT’s mission to preserve Mahayana Tradition.

Phelgye Ling Monastery’s senior administrator’s refusal to conduct the DS puja when requested by the Kopan Monastery’s monk is an example of the repercussion of FPMT’s action to ban DS practice.   We can’t imagine what other heavy negative karma that FPMT has to absorb in the future - broken samayas with Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, disrespecting DS, creating schisms to name a few.

I agree with Vajratruth.  How could the said senior administrator refuse to help conduct a DS puja for Lama Zopa Rinpoche! 

Lama Zopa Rinpoche is in a very difficult position just like any other abbots & high lamas or rinpoches who are DS lineage holders and yet were ‘forced’ by the ban to stop the DS practice.  I believe all these lineage holders will never ban or stop DS practice which is the essence of the Gelug Lineage!  Practitioners of the Gelug Tradition should be loyal and devoted to their lamas and followed their instructions especially during this ban.   HH Dalai Lama had banned DS but did HH Dalai Lama say DS practitioners cannot practise DS?  Recall that HH Dalai Lama had said that if we practise DS then don’t attend his initiations.

It is indeed sad to know Lama Zopa Rinpoche is ill.  All high lamas are very compassionate.  They will always take on the suffering of their students.  Hence when the lama is ill, it shows that the lama is absorbing the negative karma of his students.  So, we can see that Lama Zopa Rinpoche is clearly absorbing tons and tons of heavy negative karma of his students in FPMT and Kopan Monastery who had committed a lot of negative actions in relation to Dorje Shugden.

Hence, if FPMT and Kopan Monastery want Lama Zopa Rinpoche to be healthy and live long, it is very simple, be devoted and loyal to your lama.  Listen to your lama’s instructions and stop your negative actions against DS!  There is no other better pujas to help Lama Zopa regain his health than your sincere wish to change.  Make your lama happy before it is too late!  You have already ‘lost’ Lama Yeshe’s current incarnation.  Do you want to lose Lama Zopa Rinpoche?

The move by the Kopan Monastery monk to request DS puja shows that there are sincere DS practitioners in Kopan Monastery who cares about the DS practice but are silenced by FPMT’s stance on the ban.  Please speak up and defend DS before FPMT loses its future as one of the most established Gelug centres in the World.

gomchen

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2012, 08:18:20 AM »
Hi,
I have noticed people saying that Osel Hita has abandoned the fpmt, lama Zopa etc. As far as I was aware he is still fond of them and in contact with them. He has a facebook page and recently was in India Meeting Lama Zopa etc. Here is a picture of him at Kopan.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2012, 09:45:45 AM »
Dear Gomchen

It's heartening to hear that Lama Osel is still close to FPMT and Lama Zopa. I did read that Lama Osel went to visit Lama Zopa in Australia when Lama Zopa had the stroke. As Lama Osel IS Lama Yeshe, it doesn’t surprise me that he will have a strong bond with Lama Zopa. Why Lama Osel is staying away from FPMT and his destined role as a Lama, I can only guess that it is due to the broken samaya with Dorje Shugden.

By the way, please do post Lama Osel’s facebook page url. I’d love to take a look. I tried searching for it but couldn’t find it.

Thanks!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

vajralight

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2012, 11:20:31 AM »
Quote: Phelgye Ling Monastery’s senior administrator’s refusal to conduct the DS puja when requested by the Kopan Monastery’s monk is an example of the repercussion of FPMT’s action to ban DS practice.   We can’t imagine what other heavy negative karma that FPMT has to absorb in the future - broken samayas with Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, disrespecting DS, creating schisms to name a few.

I agree with Vajratruth.  How could the said senior administrator refuse to help conduct a DS puja for Lama Zopa Rinpoche!  "

I disagree. Those monks of Pelgyeling are risking their lives in continuing to faithfully follow their Gurus instructions and practise Dorje Shugden. Lama Zopa is actively trying to destroy the practise of Dorje Shugden, see :

 In the FPMT (Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition) Handbook, Lama Zopa says:
 
"All those who offer service or teach in FPMT centers are committed to follow the advice of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. As an example, His Holiness has prohibited the practice of the so-called protector, Do Gyel (Shugden), so teachers or others affiliated with the FPMT should not engage in this practice."
 
This also extends to ordination. From the IMI/FPMT website:

Students considering ordination should also:
have had Buddhist refuge for at least five years,
have lived with lay vows for at least three years,
NOT be a Shugden practitioner,
be at least 20 years of age, etc etc

also from Lama Zopa:

http://www.lamayeshe.com/index.php?sect=article&id=335

Dorje Shugden is a spirit or mundane Dharma protector that some believe is a fully enlightened being. He has become a rallying cry for some who wish to return Tibet to a theocracy (His Holiness the Dalai Lama wants democracy) with one school or sect as the official ‘church’. No FPMT center does this practice and all fully support His Holiness the Dalai Lama's wish that this practice not be done. For more information, see http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/index.html.


and :

If those gurus who used to do the practice still had the same aspect now, if they were still alive in that aspect, they would also change. For example, His Holiness himself did the practice in Tibet for a short while, but after extensive analysis, checking many experiences and signs, and considering the advice of many other high lamas who advised not to do the practice, His Holiness also decided against it.

It is not only His Holiness who is saying not to do this practice. Before His Holiness, many other high lamas, holders of the entire Buddhadharma, also instructed their monasteries and students not to do this practice. After checking in many ways, His Holiness came to the conclusion that for the benefit of individual people as well as the world in general, he would stop doing this practice and also advised others to stop. Therefore, if those gurus who did the practice still had the same aspect, they would stop. Also, many gurus, many great teachers who are still living, have stopped as well, even though they used to do the practice before.

Even though many people, groups, and monasteries have asked His Holiness to change his advice on this, he has remained firm. Since he arrived at his decision through many years’ analysis, there has been no change; His Holiness always says the same thing in this regard. As His Holiness has said in many teachings, he will never change his opinion on this matter. If His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not Chenrezig, if he’s not Buddha, who else is there in the world that you can point to as Buddha? If His Holiness is not the Buddha of Compassion, then it’s a mistake to call other lamas Buddha, who are said to be incarnations of a Buddha.

[Rinpoche then explained in detail how His Holiness is Chenrezig and how the guru is Buddha.] end quote Lama Zopa


It is very clear what he is saying here !!!! DL is right , Dorje Shugden is bad and you should give up the practise !
 

also:

Lama Zopa:

Then, I want to specify one extra point, on the basis of the usual examination that is explained in the teachings. I want to add that, if you are making a new Dharma connection with a teacher, you should examine to make sure that that teacher is not someone who is against His Holiness Dalai Lama with respect to the practice of what’s called döl-gyäl, the protector Shugden. Make sure that that person does not do the practice. These days, that’s an extra analysis you should make. In that way, you’ll avoid problems in future.

Recently, I also introduced a new guideline for the protection of the centers and their students, which is not to invite to the center teachers who do the protector practice and are therefore against His Holiness the Dalai Lama.




Is this not clear ????



I remember reading an article in the FPMT Mandala magazine, many years ago, where he travelled to Mongolia (if I remember correctly Bakula Rinpoches monastery) and he gave money offerings to the monks, but only to those who did not practise Dorje Shugden. He said they too would get offerings if they renounced their DS practise. ::)


Vajra

bambi

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2012, 12:02:34 PM »
Thank you for the information. I am not really that surprised that Lama Zopa is still practicing Lord Dorje Shugden. I am concerned though for His health. May He recover swiftly after the pujas.
Was slightly disturbed when the administrator refused to perform pujas for Lama Zopa. Yes, they were against the practice but they are still Sanghas and Lama Zopa is a respectable Lama. We shouldnt do what they do instead we should be more compassionate.

Jessie Fong

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2012, 01:05:25 PM »
Are monks not compassionate beings, practising equality towards all beings?  So why did they turn away the request for DS puja to help heal Lama Zopa?  How could they be selective in who they wish to help?

What if Lama Zopa's health took a turn for the worse without the pujas - would the administrator be able to stand by and see that he did not do his part to help a fellow being, a high Lama in fact?  Would they have agreed if the request came from a layman asking for a DS puja?

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2012, 02:04:03 PM »
I hear a lot of people here criticizing the administrators of Phelgye Ling, but the fact is that there just does not seem to be enough context or information to base any judgement on the decision of the administrators.

Until all of the story is known maybe it is best not to pass judgement. The monks of Phelgye Ling are very pure practitioners, to imply that they have no compassion is simply a false judgement in my opinion.

( I know I will get slammed for saying this, but felt the need to say so anyway)

Ensapa

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2012, 02:13:15 PM »
Are monks not compassionate beings, practising equality towards all beings?  So why did they turn away the request for DS puja to help heal Lama Zopa?  How could they be selective in who they wish to help?

What if Lama Zopa's health took a turn for the worse without the pujas - would the administrator be able to stand by and see that he did not do his part to help a fellow being, a high Lama in fact?  Would they have agreed if the request came from a layman asking for a DS puja?

If the abbot helped and allowed the puja to be done, it would mean that the abbot is saying "Okay, what you are doing to DS practitioners is right and that you should continue to do and we endorse your actions". Obviously this should not be the case. It is wise for the abbot to refuse the monks from Kopan to show that what they are doing is not right.

Vajratruth:
Sometimes Lamas will have to say or do things due to pressure from sponsors and from key students. They cannot risk damaging the minds of these students. Perhaps some of Lama Zopa's students have samaya with HHDL and therefore in order to not disturb them, Lama Zopa has compassionately said things like these. At the same time, I also believe that some of the rules were over exaggerated by zealous disciples in order to be on the Dalai Lama's side. Definitely it is not uncommon for the students to twist or distort the Lama's instructions.

Lama Zopa definitely took the DS practice from Lama Yeshe. And if Lama Zopa would go against his own root Guru, I don't believe FPMT would have grown to such a scale. He is definitely doing it in secret, or else why would he need to request a puja from Phelgye Ling? Kopan isnt that innocent either. They were the ones who convinced Pabongkha Rinpoche's sponsor that Dorje Shugden was evil and caused the sponsor to cut off ties with Pabongkha. Acts like these will have karmic repercussions. Very heavy repercussions.

It would be interesting to see how would FPMT and Lama Zopa react after the ban. Perhaps they will welcome Dorje Shugden to their centers again? Or they will somehow say it is "legal" to practice again? At the moment we cannot tell. Nobody knew Samdhong Rinpoche is who he is until he retired anyway.

thaimonk

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2012, 03:05:30 PM »
I hear a lot of people here criticizing the administrators of Phelgye Ling, but the fact is that there just does not seem to be enough context or information to base any judgement on the decision of the administrators.

Until all of the story is known maybe it is best not to pass judgement. The monks of Phelgye Ling are very pure practitioners, to imply that they have no compassion is simply a false judgement in my opinion.

( I know I will get slammed for saying this, but felt the need to say so anyway)

I don't think people are criticizing the administrators of Phelgye Ling. You don't have to be the spokesperson for them as you are not related to them.
I don't think any judgement is being passed, people are expressing their thoughts only. All thoughts expressed can be seen as judgement or just an opinion.

Re the monks at Pelgye ling being pure, I am sure most of them are and some are not. Every monastery I have visited have pure monks strictly following the vinaya and some are not. Not all persons in robes are pure. I've met ones that gossip, hold grugdes, enjoy the good life and have skipped to the USA and disrobed immediately. I've sponsored monks in Phelgye Ling, Samten Ling, Sera, Drepung etc in the past that are disrobed now and having families. 

Personally I think Pelgye Ling is a great Monastery with great senior sangha and they did the right thing to refuse the puja. If Zopa Rinpoche didn't agree to the pujas, then the pujas would not have been effective. So perhaps the good monks at Pelgye Ling couldn't get a clear answer as to whether Lama Zopa agreed or not. But one thing for sure, they did not agree to the puja when they were asked by Kopan.

 

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2012, 03:35:12 PM »
I never said I was the spokesman for Phelgye Ling. I was just stating my opinion.

 
Like I said, I knew I would get slammed for posting that, but I felt the need to say something the same as Ensapa did.  I am ok with that though. Not sure why the rudeness but that is fine.

 

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2012, 03:56:59 PM »
I appologize for not being clearer. After rereading this thread, you are right, no one has criticized the administrators of Phelgye Ling, they were questioning the logic behind the decision that they made.

I leave you in peace. Thank you for your efforts, in all that you do. Although I may not 100% agree with some of the views, I have no right to judge. I am not wise enough to know what is best, therefore I only pray that all of our combined efforts to lift the ban bear fruit.


Manjushri

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Re: Hot News Regarding Lama Zopa
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2012, 06:47:59 PM »
Oooh la la, news fresh out of the oven!

I'm just wondering who the monk from Kopan monastery who went to Phegyeling monastery is? Is he a senior monk, a monk close to Lama Zopa Rinpoche, or what? Wondering if he received the instruction from Lama Zopa Rinpoche himself, or any of Lama Zopa Rinpoche's close disciples to get a DS puja done...would reveal alot. :)

I am happy that this monk braved and risked everything to go to a DS monastery to request for a puja to be done for his own beloved guru. I guess if it wasn't an instruction, it could have been (1) a last resort for him, (2) he has been doing practice of DS, or (3) he knows that DS is the only one that can save his guru.

Anyways, whatever it is, the bottom line is that DS's swift and effective help was called upon for Lama Zopa Rinpoche's fast recovery. So what does this tell you? Is the monk/student of Lama Zopa Rinpoche then going against his own guru's advice to follow HHDL, by requesting for a DS puja?