Author Topic: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama  (Read 18752 times)

vajrastorm

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2012, 06:50:51 AM »
So Nechung predicts, through an oracle, that the Dalai Lama will visit China this year and then people will be so overjoyed that they'd die. Again, a Hindu Goddess predicts through a young girl, that Tibet will be happily liberated from the Chinese in 2016. These predictions appear to us to be incredulous. Furthermore they come from unenlightened beings. Then again, we know that it was Dorje Shugden who, through instructions and advice of an oracle, and a protective sword and Thangka, ensured the Dalai Lama's safe flight from China to Tibet. Yet, the Dalai Lama gave out that it was Nechung whose advice saved him.The Dalai Lama displays such glaring contradictions by choosing to propitiate and listen to unenlightened beings on the one hand, and ,on the other, to ban Enlightened Protectors , like Dorje Shugden and His practice, and with such flimsy reasons.

 Yet, we are reminded of the advice given by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche in Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors, that we ordinary beings having ordinary views, must have faith in Holy Beings like HH Dalai Lama(Chenrezig) and Enlightened Protector Dorje Shugden(Manjushri) and their actions, however contradictory and conflicting they may appear to be. Our eyes must be focussed on the Big Picture that will unfold in due course.

Big Uncle

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 04:18:05 AM »
First of all, I think it was out of courtesy that the Dalai Lama receives and hears the prophecy of this little girl because she came from South India. On the part of the little girl, she was very sincere in wanting to deliver her message to the Dalai Lama. She seemed authentic to me because of that.

I know, it is the sign of times that the Dalai Lama would rather listen the predictions of a little girl saint than listen, accept and allow the continuation of a lineage that stems from his very own Lamas. It is unfair and he would even listen to Nechung that seems to give inaccurate prophecies and is definitely unenlightened.

On top of that, I wonder if the Dalai Lama would really make it to China. If he did, it would probably be a one-off visit and I doubt it would lead to Tibetan independence. However, prophecies from Nechung are famous for being inaccurate. I wouldn't place too much emphasis of prophecies he had given. I rather place my trust in Dorje Shugden, who is one with Manjushri and gives crystal clear prophecies.


negra orquida

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 10:49:59 AM »
Interesting video and comments... I found it rather amusing how the PhD monk said that when the Chinese sees HHDL they will be so happy and die.  I suppose this is a good thing from a Tibetan Buddhist's point of view, to see an enlightened being right before they die.  Pretty sure the monks wouldn't say things that would paint a bad picture of their Guru.

Ensapa

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2012, 01:38:15 PM »
Interesting video and comments... I found it rather amusing how the PhD monk said that when the Chinese sees HHDL they will be so happy and die.  I suppose this is a good thing from a Tibetan Buddhist's point of view, to see an enlightened being right before they die.  Pretty sure the monks wouldn't say things that would paint a bad picture of their Guru.

However it does sound very funny for non tibetans to hear that. But I think he meant that the antagonism of the Chinese towards the Dalai Lama die and that they will all be happy. It could be that he has a poor command of english and cannot express what is said clearly. Oracles have also been known to be quite cryptic with their descriptions as well although enlightened oracles rarely speak in riddles.

From a Tibetan point of view, dying after doing something virtuous is one of the best things ever that can happen to a person as where a person will be reborn to depends on the very last moment of the person right before they die. So to die right after seeing something virtuous is indeed a great blessing in more ways than one.

Lineageholder

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2012, 02:12:33 PM »
I know, it is the sign of times that the Dalai Lama would rather listen the predictions of a little girl saint than listen, accept and allow the continuation of a lineage that stems from his very own Lamas. It is unfair and he would even listen to Nechung that seems to give inaccurate prophecies and is definitely unenlightened.

Thank you, this is the problem with the Dalai Lama - too little Buddhism and too much superstition.

thaimonk

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2012, 04:37:01 PM »
I think the Dalai Lama made a real good move in meeting to this little Hindu Goddess incarnate. This girl is venerated by the 1 billion Hindus of India. She's in the news all the time and hundreds flock to her per day for blessings. By Dalai Lama meeting her, he pleases the 1 billion Hindus of his host country who sees him as respecting their faith. Small 'price to pay' for the 50 years of asylum India has granted Dalai Lama and Tibetans.


Poonlarp

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2012, 06:26:14 PM »

It may appear that HHDL is making a lot of mistakes to us, but perhaps to higher beings he is not making mistakes and is doing all of these to prepare the groundwork for something huge to come in time. It might not be solely political in nature and could affect the world as we know it, but at our level all we can do is speculate based on what evidence we can gather and via logical thinking.

Yes, I agree with this. I believe that we might not be that clear that what is happening, there must a reason for this dilemma of the Shugden practitioners are facing now.

I hope the "something huge" manifest very soon, let all the Buddhist practice freely of what their Guru gave them very soon.

Everybody wants to see Tibet to gain their freedom back, and I think there are also a lot of people want to see Shugden practitioners gain their dignity and freedom to practice back.

dondrup

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2012, 08:13:52 PM »
Why would His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama - who is an emanation of Buddha Chenrezig - seeks advice and blessings from a Hindu Goddess?   It does not make sense at all because an emanation of Chenrezig has the same omniscience and power as Buddha Chenrezig Himself to know events in the past, present and future precisely. 

Similarly why would Buddha Chenrezig / HHDL need to rely on Nechung or any other unenlightened protector at all?   I would like to think that HHDL has great compassion for the protector Nechung, Hindu Goddess (in this case) and the other sentient beings. 

HHDL allows Nechung to continue to serve him even though Nechung’s prediction is inaccurate and full of mistakes.  HHDL is helping Nechung to purify his karma and accumulate merit.  HHDL is skillful and diplomatic  to ‘listen’ to advice given by the Hindu saint.  By doing that he further strengthens the Tibetans’ harmony and ties with the Indians at all levels in the country.  Reliance on oracle is necessary more for the sake of those who choose to believe only the protectors than the Lamas!



Namdrol

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 11:18:49 PM »
What did the goddess say about January 2012? Something like in January 2012 Tibet will gain independence is it?

Well, now is already a few days after January 2012, yes there really was something happening in January 2012: China cracks down on unrest (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/01/31/China-cracks-down-on-unrest/UPI-99561328023303/). The China tighten their grip further, let alone letting Tibet to have any sort of independence.

The Hindu goddess girl is most likely authentic, and her prediction back then might be accurate, but from then until now, the only thing that could have changed the course of collective karma of the Tibetans in exile?, were the doings of they themelves, and of course one possibility is the extreme bad karma created from slandering Buddha like Dorje Shugden and breaking up sangha like the Shugden practitioners.

I don't see anything wrong with the Dalai Lama meeting this Hindu goddess girl, because it was already said that she came all the way to meet the Dalai Lama, and many Indians believed in her, so the Dalai Lama met her and listened to what she had to say, out of respect, and to please the Indians also. Imagine how the sentiments of the Indian people would change towards the Tibetans in India if the headline came out like this "Dalai Lama refused to meet Hindu Goddess".

The Dalai Lama is very skillful and compassionate, to always protect his people, just that his ignorant people always do not realize it.


Ensapa

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2012, 08:21:34 AM »
What did the goddess say about January 2012? Something like in January 2012 Tibet will gain independence is it?

Well, now is already a few days after January 2012, yes there really was something happening in January 2012: China cracks down on unrest (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/01/31/China-cracks-down-on-unrest/UPI-99561328023303/). The China tighten their grip further, let alone letting Tibet to have any sort of independence.

The Hindu goddess girl is most likely authentic, and her prediction back then might be accurate, but from then until now, the only thing that could have changed the course of collective karma of the Tibetans in exile?, were the doings of they themelves, and of course one possibility is the extreme bad karma created from slandering Buddha like Dorje Shugden and breaking up sangha like the Shugden practitioners.

I don't see anything wrong with the Dalai Lama meeting this Hindu goddess girl, because it was already said that she came all the way to meet the Dalai Lama, and many Indians believed in her, so the Dalai Lama met her and listened to what she had to say, out of respect, and to please the Indians also. Imagine how the sentiments of the Indian people would change towards the Tibetans in India if the headline came out like this "Dalai Lama refused to meet Hindu Goddess".

The Dalai Lama is very skillful and compassionate, to always protect his people, just that his ignorant people always do not realize it.


We do not need to go into Buddhist terms to see why CTA is not capable of handling Tibet. Look at how they are doing with Dharmasala now. It is in very bad shape compared with other countries out there. If they could do a good job with Dharamsala, it would mean that they are able to take care of such a huge piece of land like Tibet as well but if they cannot even take care of such a small settlement properly, what else can be said with such a huge country? Wouldnt more people suffer due to incompetent administration?

If only CTA would improve, then perhaps Tibetan independence would come a step closer.

Big Uncle

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2012, 09:30:38 AM »
Interesting video and comments... I found it rather amusing how the PhD monk said that when the Chinese sees HHDL they will be so happy and die.  I suppose this is a good thing from a Tibetan Buddhist's point of view, to see an enlightened being right before they die.  Pretty sure the monks wouldn't say things that would paint a bad picture of their Guru.

Dear negra orquida,
Please don't take the monk's statements out of context. The monk was divulging what Nechung had said in a trance. So the words were originally from Nechung and not the monk. On top of that, the monk is Tibetan and is obviously not very fluent in English so the words he used was pretty basic and may not carry the full meaning of what he was trying to convey.

I think Nechung in this instance said that the Dalai Lama will make a trip to China and he would meet many faithful and old Tibetans and Chinese. Many have waited a lifetime to see the Dalai Lama and some would be content just to see the Dalai Lama's face and are prepared to die. The Tibetans have a belief that they should see the Dalai Lama's face at least once before they die so they would take a good rebirth.

harrynephew

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2012, 05:17:26 AM »
I think the Dalai Lama made a real good move in meeting to this little Hindu Goddess incarnate. This girl is venerated by the 1 billion Hindus of India. She's in the news all the time and hundreds flock to her per day for blessings. By Dalai Lama meeting her, he pleases the 1 billion Hindus of his host country who sees him as respecting their faith. Small 'price to pay' for the 50 years of asylum India has granted Dalai Lama and Tibetans.

I agree with what u have just said. To add on, to get 1 billion Hindus to gain sight of His Holiness the Dalai Lama will also be a great blessing too. It is just something which HHDL can do in return for 50 years of kindness from the Indian nation. This will plant the seed of enlightenment in the Indians on the long run and eventually meet with a qualified guru and be able to practice Dharma in the future.

What ever prediction this Indian Goddess gives maybe true/untrue, but it sure has open a path and created a bridge for the Indians to create a connection with the Buddha Dharma
Harry Nephew

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beggar

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2012, 08:19:16 PM »
A good contemplation on the video, including many perspectives that are worth thinking about further... Would you have anything to add?

Or more importantly, any insights as to why there are such double standards in the way the Dalai Lama consults enlightened / unenlightened deities?



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A COMMENTARY:
2012: The Tibetans' fateful year


This documentary was created almost exactly three years ago. It is now 2012 and the Tibetan exiled community doesn’t look like it’s any closer to achieving autonomy. The struggle is still on; Tibetans are still crying for a Free Tibet; the cause for Tibet’s independence is still very much a hot topic within the Tibetan diaspora.

So where is this autonomy? And why aren’t the prophecies coming true? Were all those oracles wrong?
 
Let’s back-track slightly in this discussion about Free Tibet and oracles. Central to the cause for Tibet’s freedom has also been the ongoing ban of the Protector deity Dorje Shugden. In the mid 1990s, as the fight for freedom became more and more of a bleak possibility, it was declared that the practice of Dorje Shugden was harming the Tibetan cause. The Dalai Lama banned the practice stating publicly that if people continued the practice, they would create the cause for Tibetans never to get their independence and for the Dalai Lama’s own life to be shortened.

It because a widespread view that Dorje Shugden had become a convenient scapegoat. The governing body of the exiled Tibetan community in Indian, known as the Central Tibetan Administrator (CTA) had long failed to gain independence back for their people. So as their failure became increasingly pronounced, they needed a quick diversion. Dorje Shugden was made to take the blame for the failing Tibetan situation.

The Dalai Lama, his supporters and the CTA cited their state protector, Nechung, in saying that Dorje Shugden was not enlightened and that we should not rely on him. Apparently, it was Nechung, while in trance through an oracle, that proclaimed it unsafe and not beneficial to propitiate the Dorje Shugden. The Dalai Lama appeared to listen to this advice; as did his government. The advice to renounce the practice was issued as a blanket ban – give up the practice or else…

The ban brought up huge debates among learned Buddhist practitioners, scholars and teachers. It did not make sense on any level that a Protector who has been long recognised as an enlightened being was suddenly being denounced as a harmful spirit. It made even less sense that the Dalai Lama – recognised as an emanation of the Buddha of Compassion, Chenrezig – could make such a drastic “mistake” in identifying the true nature of a Protector which he himself relied on for a significant part of his life.

Now, this news reportage adds another perspective into the mix. While the Dalai Lama rejects the counsel and practice of Dorje Shugden, he is now consulting oracles of other deities, who may not necessarily even be enlightened. The Sambhavi deity may be very highly respected and worshipped among Hindu devotees, but she is hardly known with the Tibetan Buddhist lineages – it begs the question why the Dalai Lama would reject an established Protector deity from within his own lineage, who was practiced by his own teachers and monasteries, but would consult a deity of an entirely different religion. We might also ask why the Dalai Lama, supposedly an enlightened being himself, would even need to rely on deity oracles for predictions and prophecies, no least from oracles whose level of attainments are far below his own.

The details of the Buddhist Protector consulted by the Dalai Lama are not even clear in this video. Even the terminology belies the unfortunate inexperience of the journalist who is not able to articulate specific details as to who this Protector is.

So we might assume this is Nechung, the most prominent state oracle often consulted by the Dalai Lama and his government. Even so, it is a commonly accepted that that Nechung is not enlightened. He is known to have been a spirit who was tamed by Guru Rinpoche and bound to serve the Dharma. Because of his limited capacity as an unenlightened protector, it has also been well documented throughout history that many of the prophecies of Nechung were inaccurate. This caused many of the high lamas to be displeased with him.

A clear example of this was when Nechung wrongly advised the Dalai Lama to remain in Tibet during the early troubles of the Cultural Revolution. To be doubly sure, the Dalai Lama also consulted Dorje Shugden who actually advised him to leave immediately and provided him the exact routes to leave in safety. The very next day after his escape, the Chinese shelled the Potala Palace where the Dalai Lama had been staying at the time. Had the Dalai Lama listened only to Nechung and not consulted the Dorje Shugden oracle in time, he would have been killed in the Potala. In reality, therefore, because he has so often given such inaccurate advice, prophecies made by Nechung simply cannot be trusted. Anything he says about Tibetan independence should also be taken with a pinch of salt.

So why have all Nechung’s sweeping statements about this supposed promise of freedom in 2012 been taken so much to heart? Why is it that a bound spirit is now advising the Dalai Lama about the nature of an enlightened protector, claiming that he is unenlightened and harmful? Should the Dalai Lama be listening to the unenlightened Protector, or one he had propitiated for more than half his life, but suddenly “given up”?
 
The Dalai Lama has followed the advice of Nechung thus far – but where has his gotten him and his people? Nechung’s advice in 1959 might have almost killed the Dalai Lama had he really remained in Tibet. Fast-forward 60 years to today: 2012 is drawing to a close and the Dalai Lama is still not making his way back to his homeland. Why not? Have the words of his own Protector failed him? And if so, why does he continue consulting him? Why indeed does he continue to promote and rely on a being who has so often proven himself unreliable and denounce a true enlightened Protector whose advice has never failed any one?


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For further reading on Nechung (also frequently known as Pehar)
(Extracted from: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/spirits-in-dharamsala/)
Spirits in Dharamsala

Many eons ago, the dharma protector, Pehar, was a royal prince of the Ashuras called Damaraja. At the time of his birth, another boy was also born — to one of the king’s ministers. The two became fast friends and were ordained as monks together by the abbot called Dawe (moonlight.)

Damaraja’s religious name was Dawe Shinu and his friend’s was Tunten Nagpo.

Dawe Shinu became a scholar, who enjoyed teaching Dharma. His friend enjoyed meditating.

One day Dawe Shinu went to visit a Hindu Temple where he met a beautiful girl named Zitan Metog Ke. Overwhelmed by physical attraction, they fell into each other’s arms and ended up making love in the temple for 7 days and nights.

Dawe Shinu had broken his vows of celibacy.

His friend came and tried to stop them, but he could do nothing. Dawe Shinu got so angry at the intervention that he turned into a lion and threatened to kill his friend. If it had not been for Vajrapani, who protected Tunten Nagpo with his vajra, he would have done so.

Years late, when Dawe Shinu died, he was reborn in hell. There, he was known as Butcher’s Horse, and his life was full of suffering.

In his next existence, he was reborn as a human being who was very poor and homeless. One day, as he was wandering he ran into his former friend but they had no liking for each other.

Then Dawe Shinu was born to King Muche Tsampo and his wife, Queen Lhamo Tongon. that time, he was named Vajra Kuhe Samati. His former friend, Tunten Nagpo, was a hermit who meditated in cave and for some reason, Vajra Kuhe Samati was moved to turn himself into a rat just to try and disturb him. Once again Vajprapani intervened to protect Tunten Nagpo.

The fourth existence of Dawe Shinu was as the third son of Dudje Tsempo, king of the local demons. His name this time was Mudu Tankhar. (His father also had four other children.)

Pehar is a reincarnation of that demon, Mudu Tankhar. He is described as having three faces, six arms and riding a lion. He is known as a Tinley Gyalpo, or Action King.

When Padmasambhava and Tibetan ruler, Trison Deutsen, built Samye Monastery, Guru Rinpoche invited Pehar from his realm called Petahor to be the protector. He gave him a wife, Mentsun Karmo, as well as another consort. They were installed in the quarters called Peharchok that was established especially for them in the northern side of Samye. This Pehar temple is known as the Turquoise Palace.

Pehar, as a dharmapala, embodies the activities of the Five Buddhas. He also has five aspects: Body, Mind, Speech, Knowledge and Activity. The Mind aspect of King Pehar (Tuk ki Gyalpo) is brown with one face and two arms. His right hand holds a red spear, his left, a double-edged sword and a lasso. He wears a bear skin shawl and a black turban and is seated on an elephant amidst fire.

The Body aspect of Pehar (Kui Gyalpo) is dark blue, with one face and two arms. His right hand holds a vajra and his left, a single cymbal. He wears a round golden cymbal-shaped hat (tipshu) and rides a black bear.

The Knowledge aspect (Yonten kyi Gyalpo) is black, with one face and two arms. His right hand holds an axe, his left a demon’s lasso. He wears a tiger skin shawl and a black snakeskin and rides a dragon.

The Speech aspect (Sung gi Gyalpo) is dark brown, with one face and two arms. His right hand holds a staff, his left a sandalwood club. He wears a black robe and rides an iron wolf.

The Activity aspect (Thinley gyi Gyalpo) is navy blue with three faces and six arms. His first right hand holds a hook, the second an arrow, and the third, a sword. His first left hand holds a razor-sharp knife, the second a bow, the third a staff. He wears his tipshu, a white shawl and leopard-skin skirt, and rides a snow lion.

~ edited from Lama Kunga Rinpoche’s teaching (02/1999) as recorded by Jeff Watt.

As a state institution, Nechung Monastery stood at the apex of a nationwide system comprised of thousands of mediums and their respective spirits. The network through which the human and spirit worlds were connected, was re-enfranchised annually, in the so-called Lhatrel or God Tax.

Once a year Tibet ’s 120 district governors collected offerings from the mediums in their region on behalf of their spirits. Forwarded to Nechung Monastery, they were given, on the third day of the New Year, in a colossal tsog or offering ritual, to Pehar Gyalpo.

After the rite, Nechung’s monks moved to the center of Lhasa for the oracle’s appearance in Tibet’s most spectacular celebration, the three-week-long Monlam Chenmo or Great Prayer Festival. At this time, over 20,000 monks, joined by thousands of pilgrims from all across the country, crowded into the capital.

The Nechung medium was required to undergo trance on at least ten separate occasions. In the most dramatic event, following days of parades, athletic meetings and religious convocations, he marched in a regal procession south of the city to a field below the Potala, where, wielding his bow, sword and trident before a bonfire, he ritually dispersed the negative spirits of the old year.

The need to thoroughly test the authenticity of the Nechung kuden had, for centuries, been a critical concern of the Tibetan government. As the most delicate policies of state, both domestic and foreign, were involved with the oracle, the possibility of a leak, either from a malignant spirit taking possession (and subsequently relating information via another medium) or from the medium himself retaining some trace memory of the trance, was ever-present. So, too, was the danger of a garbled or mistaken transmission.

To protect against the latter, the level of the medium’s trance was closely observed, a complete possession, inducing unconsciousness, being the ideal state. Such possession could occur only if the 72,000 psychic channels upon which, according to tantric theory, consciousness is mounted in the human body were cleared of all obstructions.

In such a case trance would be undergone swiftly, continuing without fluctuations or other irregularities. Though Lobsang Jigme’s trances revealed him to be very pure “vessel,” the next task, that of checking whether or not if it was in fact Dorje Drakden who possessed him, required, following preliminary observations, three levels of tests.

Initially, four signs of Dorje Drakden’s immense power were sought: swelling of the medium’s body up to two inches, effortless support of the heavy costume, ringing of the golden bells on the helmet’s top and shuddering of the mirror on the chest from the increased heartbeat.

The character of the possessing spirit was then observed. Dorje Drakden’s cham was particular to him, as was the fact that his fierce, prideful attitude gave way to humility only if the Dalai Lama, his picture or an article of his clothing was present. Otherwise the spirit minister demanded complete subjugation from all those in attendance. With these factors present, three categories of tests, known as outer, inner and secret, were undertaken.

In the other test, the medium was presented during trance with sealed boxes and requested to name their contents. This exam was considered easy, as the majority of spirits were believed to possess a minor form of clairvoyance.

It was followed by the inner test, in which the possessing spirit was requested to quote verbatim prophecies given by the Protector on specific dates in the past. With hundreds of prophecies on file, all imparted in Dorje Drakden’s poetic, often cryptic style, this test was virtually impossible to pass if the Protector himself was not present.

The two tests comprising the secret category, however, were believed definitive. Prior to the trance the kuden’s breath was checked to make sure that it had no odour. During trance it was examined again. If Dorje Drakden was in possession, the breath would invariably have a strong scent, similar to that of alcohol but described as actually being that of nectar.

At the moment Padmasambhava had converted the Five Kings, in the form of the eight-year-old novice, to the Dharma, he had anointed the child’s tongue with a few drops of nectar. Its odour was maintained by the spirit as a sign that his vows were being upheld. While exacting allegiance, Padmasambhava had placed the blazing tip of his dorje on the head of the kneeling child.

As the trance ends and the thickly padded helmet is quickly removed before the kuden chokes, Dorje Drakden’s possession is revealed in the well-defined imprint of a dorje, clearly visible for a matter of minutes, on the crown of the medium’s head.

The position of Nechung Kuden, however, was neither easy nor even necessarily desirable. It held the potential of a high as well as an ignominious fate. Many kudens had suffered the latter; only a few had achieved the former.

The very first kuden, appointed at the monastery’s founding in the seventeenth century, had been executed when, through possession by a lesser spirits, secret government information had been revealed to the public. Though no such drastic measure had occurred since, two of the three kudens preceding Lobsang Jigme had been disgraced, fired from their posts, after their meditation practice had deteriorated to the point of interfering with the coherence of their trances.

Shakya Yarpel, though, the renowned kuden prior to them, had been so beloved by the Thirteenth Dalai Lama for the charity of his possessions that he had been accorded honours above even those granted the Prime Minister and Cabinet, actually being conveyed when he traveled in a pep jam, the gold palanquin normally reserved solely for the Dalai Lamas and Regents.

Aware of the difficulty of the post, Lobsang Jigme’s predecessor, had run away on being singled out during a trance of the Gadong Oracle as the new Nechung kuden. Nonetheless, unable to prevent his destiny, he had been possessed by Dorje Drakden and, until his death (attributed by some to the immense strain placed on his heart by possession), accepted the role.

Excerpt from
In Exile from the Land of Snows
By John F. Avedon

You might also be interested in this video:
Dalai Lama and Oracle:
Dalai Lama and Oracle



Ensapa

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2012, 04:20:22 AM »
Dear negra orquida,
Please don't take the monk's statements out of context. The monk was divulging what Nechung had said in a trance. So the words were originally from Nechung and not the monk. On top of that, the monk is Tibetan and is obviously not very fluent in English so the words he used was pretty basic and may not carry the full meaning of what he was trying to convey.
Sorry, but clearly, if those came out from Nechung, it does sound like he is saying all this just to appease certain people. It sounds very much like that...why has his predictions been inaccurate since the infamous incident where someone tried to kill the 13th Dalai Lama using black magic, and that person was a lama and executed in a very horrible manner and it is said that he impersonates Nechung during trances to give the wrong advice? So it does hold water. Dorje Shugden and Setrap when in trance do not speak incoherently like he does. Perhaps, this is a sign? Or perhaps, HHDL does not want an independent Tibet and is working closely with Nechung to make sure it never happens, but somehow they need to appease the masses? hmm?

I think Nechung in this instance said that the Dalai Lama will make a trip to China and he would meet many faithful and old Tibetans and Chinese. Many have waited a lifetime to see the Dalai Lama and some would be content just to see the Dalai Lama's face and are prepared to die. The Tibetans have a belief that they should see the Dalai Lama's face at least once before they die so they would take a good rebirth.
Could be, or that the Dalai Lama will emanate to China and bless the people there, i dont know because i am not nechung but one certainty is im not a huge fan of ambiguous predictions that has been proven to be inaccurate for a long time. In any case, it keeps the Tibetans happy and gives the kashag some hope in their existence. In a way, the outcome is...positive.

Its gonna be interesting to see what happens on that year as it is also that year that the ban is said to be lifted. Perhaps when the Dorje Shugden ban is lifted, the Tibetans will finally get what they want at long last? Independence and freedom and a sense of security that they belong to a country?

thaimonk

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Re: Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2012, 10:01:50 PM »
To the narrow minded, this will not look good for the Dalai Lama at all.

1. Listening to the advice of a human incarnation of a Hindu Goddess? Hindu Goddesses are not considered enlightened beings but demi gods within the wheel of samsara. Why would a fully ordained monk such as Dalai Lama listen to the advice of a worldly goddess?

2. Nechung predicts freedom/autonomy/and Dalai Lama visited China this year in 2012. What happened? No visits so far?

Nechung is wrong again?