Author Topic: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)  (Read 21170 times)

thaimonk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 652
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2012, 06:05:08 PM »
Fantastic! So many have posted examples, quotes and personal thoughts on this issue on this thread. I find them all very interesting to read. I will take time out to digest what everyone has posted. Interesting.

Officially if we are to follow the CTA stance of cutting all ties with Dorje Shugden people past and present, then Lama Zopa should not be worshipping or doing pujas at the foot of Trijang Rinpoche's stupa.

Lawrence L

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2012, 06:18:30 PM »
In my opinion, what Lama Zopa did isn't an issue at all as Trijang Rinpoche was His guru.
Things get complicated after the ban. Such an issue arrised, worshiping the guru who practiced Dorje Shugden becoming an issue. Monks are forced to left the monastry, people get killed because they deserved that, all because they practice Dorje Shugden.

Then why the Dalai Lama is still the Spiritual Leader for the Tibetan Buddhism? He practiced Dorje Shugden since he was a kid and he was one of the practitioner of Dorje Shugden! Since Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit, why the ex-evil-spirit pratitioner is able to point out who is the evil one, who is the good one? why we believe in what ex-evil-spirit pratitioner has said? And if Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit, why the ex-evil-spirit pratitioner could be a Buddha? As we know the Dalai Lama is the emanation of Avalokite?vara. How could a Buddha would make such a huge mistake?

The people who banned Dorje Shugden is because they believe in/follow the living Buddha(the Dalai Lama), then how could you/they believe in a Buddha that made mistake in the past?

Not to offense the Dalai Lama or anyone. What i point out here, is just the contradiction within the logics. There MUST BE A BIGGER PICTURE behind all this! So stop creating more and more issue to harm others and ourselves. MAKE peace of our world. Stop the ban as it creates so many doubts in people or among the Buddhist.

dondrup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2012, 07:38:09 PM »
Lama Zopa is a real master, although he is in charge of FPMT which openly declares their stance against Dorje Shugden, Lama Zopa himself has no qualms in worshipping Trijang Rinpoche's stupa. Lama Zopa surely understands the situation well, he never lost faith in th Dalai Lama, he never lost faith in the lineage guru of Dorje Shugden. Any negative acts of ostracizing and condemning Dorje Shugden practitioners are done by the members of FPMT themselves for their own selfish gains.

As far as I remember he did not openly go against Shugden, but only stated to follow the advice of the Dalai Lama and that was all. Sadly the students of his center do not follow this example and choose to be overzealous and destroy the faith of others just to look good. They do not realize that such actions will have disastrous consequences, of misinterpreting the Lama's instructions. Sometimes it is important to distinguish the Lama from the students, as some students do not follow instructions.

These followers of the FPMT who engage in disparaging their gurus are extremly degenerate, Lama yeshe was a Dorje shugden practitoner all his life how do they expect to recieve any blessings from Lama Zopa when they sincerly critic the practice of his spiritual guide, Those whom view Dorje shugden as a spirit will also incur the downfall of finding fault in the Lama. It is a pathetic excuse to say we must see him as an actor making mistakes for our benefit accomplished Lamas are not as stupid to entrust their protection to a worldly being and view such a being as being inseperable from their gurus wisdom. If this is indeed fact as the other camp likes to play then it would be no good taking Lama Zopa or any other Lama who had a spiritual guide whom practiced shugden as an enlightened being and expect to recieve any benefit from intiations into Tantra as the most basic commitments of refuge would be broken. One is not a pure container if they are taking refuge in a spirit and one cannot enter the Vajrayana if they are so what does this say for all those whom share the same lineage as us yet say oh yes Dorje shugden is an evil spirit.  ::)

Ive said it before and will say it again I dont think masters like Lama Zopa would be as silly to break connection with their Gurus after recieving a life entrustment of Dorje shugden its not something you can take back, Lama Zopas advise is some of the most moderate Ive heard this is obviously from a Great being who views Dorje shugden as per authentic instructions, However due to circumstance he cannot say anything that contradicts the word of the Dalai lama because they (The FPMT) have tied their loyalties to the political machinations of His Holiness.

Now imagine a few years back if things had gone the other way His Holiness began speaking out about this issue and every Gelug lama spoke back out against him saying his reasoning where unfound and illogical where would his power lay with which to have created this great schism is every practitoner would have been brave and stood up for their lineage and their gurus. Je Pabongkha used to become exceedingly red in the face when a person would critise his Guru and severly admonish them infact one time when he was extremly busy teaching and so forth a Lama in order to give Pabongkha Rinpoche a rare empowerment scolded his Lama and sent word to Rinpoches assistant on this Pabongkha immeditatly travelled to meet him to. Now imagine if all practitoners had the courage of Vajrapani to protect their teachings and their gurus as feircly and a loyally as some of the great examples of our lineage masters.

All Gelug lineage lamas had been practising Dorje Shugden (DS) for centuries. All Gelug lamas cannot stop their Dorje Shugden practice just because His Holiness Dalai Lama (HHDL) had banned the practice.  Abandoning the DS practice means breaking their samayas with their gurus! Broken samaya means no attainments.  Which lama in the World would want to break their samaya?

HHDL’s ban on DS practice definitely is for a bigger purpose.  Many practitioners are being tested for their faith, devotion and reliance on their gurus.  It is clear that anti-DS students had acted ignorantly in handling this ban.  Why aren’t these anti-DS students relying on their own gurus?  Lama Zopa’s worship of Trijang Rinpoche’s Stupa shows his devotion to his Guru – nothing wrong with that. But Lama Zopa’s students’ anti-Shugden behavior is totally unacceptable!

Zach W had mentioned a point about all the lamas speaking out against HHDL for banning the DS practice.  Had we ever wondered why all these lamas had not spoken out against HHDL with the exception of a few lamas?

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 10:04:51 AM »
Just to add to Big Uncle's post, i think everyone should read this. I have bolded some sentences for emphasis and also commented below within the text in blue:

Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden

http://www.lamayeshe.com/index.php?sect=article&id=335&chid=1398

Lama Zopa Rinpoche gave this talk to students of the FPMT’s Masters Program at Istituto Lama Tsongkhapa, 22 October 2000. Edited by Nicholas Ribush.


Whereas above I am asking everyone to follow His Holiness’s advice, in a later paragraph I quote the sutra that says, “Bhikshus and the wise should examine my teachings like goldsmiths analyze gold, by cutting, rubbing and scorching it. Examine my teachings in the same way and then put them into practice. Do not practice Dharma on the strength of blind faith alone.”

So, the Buddha himself said that we should first analyze his teachings and once we are convinced of their validity then put them into practice. We should not just blindly follow what he said simply because he said it.


My Question: Is Lama Zopa telling us to examine what the Dalai Lama is saying and not to follow on "blind faith alone"? "We should not just blindly follow what he said simply because he said it."

We have many gurus; many virtuous friends with whom we have made a Dharma connection. You often find that, when you ask your various teachers for advice on your practice, you receive different instructions. That’s quite common.

It also says in the teachings that you should not simply rely on the person giving Dharma teachings but on the Dharma itself. In other words, you should base your practice on valid teachings of the Buddha and the previous pundits’ and yogis’ commentaries on those teachings. Moreover, you should practice according to your own capacity. Just because something is called Buddhism or Buddhist meditation doesn’t mean that you should necessarily put it into practice. Of course, your practice should be based on valid teachings of the Buddha and the ancient Indian pundits’ and yogis’ commentaries, but even then you should just practice according to your own capacity.

You have to use your own wisdom; you have to analyze. One guru tells you not to do a certain thing; another tells you to do it. Which one are you going to follow? You have to use your own wisdom. So here, in my letter to the abbots, I’m talking about the practice of this particular protector, Shugden.

My Question: You have to use your own wisdom. Does that mean we do not necessarily listen to the Dalai Lama?

Some of you may be familiar with this issue, others may not. However, whereas so far I’ve just been talking about general advice, where one guru tells you not to do something and another says to do it, what I’m doing is leading up to the specific issue of the practice of Shugden. One guru tells you “Don’t practice this protector”; another says, “Practice this protector.” You find yourself getting conflicting instructions from different gurus. How are you supposed to know what to do?

What you have to do is use your wisdom. Analyze the various instructions you have received to determine which course of action is the most beneficial for sentient beings, which creates fewest problems. Once you have reached a conclusion, practice that.

My Question: Here Lama Zopa doesn't say don't practice Shugden. Is he being diplomatic and skilful?


Another thing is that the way things are, the Tibetan people see the incarnation as being against His Holiness the Dalai Lama. In that way, Tibetan people and others generate wrong views towards him and thus create the extremely heavy negative karma of criticizing a holy being.

My Question: So Lama Zopa is saying here people should NOT criticise HH Trijang Rinpoche because they are creating very bad karma? HH Trijang Rinpoche is a holy being - therefore, how can what he is practising be evil?

My root guru, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche; Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru’s root guru; His Holiness Song Rinpoche, from whom many of the older students received the initiation of Shugden; and the previous incarnation of Gomo Rinpoche, who has a strong connection with Istituto Lama Tsongkhapa, here in Italy, all promoted the practice of Shugden. They were all aspects of the Dharmakaya.

I myself took the initiation of Shugden from His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche. There were four of us—Lama Yeshe, Claudio Cipullo, Piero Cerri and myself. However, this initiation can be given to only three people at a time; there cannot be four. Kyabje Rinpoche had set up the altar and made all the preparations perfectly—of course, everything he did was always perfect—and was there, waiting for us. After the four of us sat down, he said, “You cannot be four; only three. Whoever has bodhicitta, who has let go of the I and cherishes others, should leave.” Lama shot up immediately. I just sat there like a donkey, as if I were made of stone. So then the three of us, Claudio, Piero and I, took the initiation.

Of course, Lama and I practiced Shugden for many years. That was always the main thing that Lama did whenever there were problems to overcome. At the beginning of every Kopan course, Lama always did Shugden puja to eliminate hindrances. Of course, this was not Lama’s principal practice. His principal practice was bodhicitta, emptiness, clear light, illusory body and so forth. The protector puja was done simply to overcome obstacles.

However, all these lamas giving different kinds of advice are all manifestations of the Dharmakaya. The point is that many great lamas who had incredible qualities and were of unbelievable benefit in Tibet, preserving and spreading the stainless teaching of Lama Tsongkhapa, advised against the practice of Shugden.

Similarly, His Holiness is of enormous benefit to sentient beings and, furthermore, has taken on the incredible burdens of his position. Therefore, it has become crucial that we support him, especially in his efforts on behalf of Tibet. This is very important and the main reason we changed—why Kopan changed; why I changed [i.e., stopped practicing Shugden]. As I understood how hard His Holiness works and what heavy burdens he has assumed, I changed. How could I be against His Holiness? There was no way. The only thing to do was to support, serve and help him. That’s the main thing.

My Question: So Lama Zopa only supports the Dalai Lama, he doesn't necessarily support the ban?

The next question—and here, I’m just posing hypothetical questions and giving the answers, like the debate texts do—that comes up for some people is that if the incarnation of His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche doesn’t practice, the lineage of Shugden will degenerate and die out. Some people might think this because in his previous life, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche was the main lama preserving this lineage, which had come down through his root guru, Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo. To that, I say there’s no need to worry because many other people do the practice, so the lineage will not get lost.

Then, some people say that this practice should continue because it promotes wealth and prosperity in the world. In response, I say that the practice of Shugden is not necessary for wealth. There are many rich and powerful countries in the world, like Saudi Arabia and the USA, that don’t practice Shugden. They haven’t taken the initiation; they haven’t made a commitment to practice. As everybody knows, wealth and prosperity comes from merit and virtue; from the creation of good karma.

After Guru Shakyamuni Buddha left his father’s palace but before he began to practice Buddhism, he practiced Hinduism. That’s not because he didn’t know that Hinduism was not the way. It was to show sentient beings that his first choice was wrong and that Buddhism was the right path.

At one point, when things in Tibet became very difficult politically, His Holiness came to Dromo Geshe Rinpoche’s monastery in southern Tibet. At that time the Tibetan government could not decide whether His Holiness should go on to India or back to Lhasa. So His Holiness and his ministers consulted Dromo Geshe Rinpoche’s monastery’s protector, the one in question. Through the oracle, Shugden said that His Holiness should not go to India. This protected Tibet for another year or for so. What I have heard is that after that experience, His Holiness would recite prayers to Shugden regularly. However, after many years of analysis, when His Holiness was about to take the initiation of Shugden, he received signs in a dream that he should not. As a result, he didn’t take the initiation.

This is the same as what Guru Shakyamuni Buddha did. He first became enlightened inconceivably long ago, not, as history tells us, two-and-a-half thousand years ago in India. According to the Theravada tradition, that’s what happened, but the Mahayana does not accept this—we believe he became enlightened inconceivably long ago. Therefore, as an enlightened being, how can the Buddha make a mistake? He simply practiced Hinduism to show sentient beings that it was the wrong path. This is just what His Holiness did; he practiced Shugden to show us it was wrong.

Because of His Holiness’s special capacity to benefit people extensively by revealing the entire Buddhadharma in a very short time, in two or three days or even one or two hours, it is very important that he have a long, healthy life. Since His Holiness can introduce the Dharma to people in such a short time, leading them to the peace and happiness of liberation and enlightenment, the longer and healthier His Holiness’s life, the more he can benefit us sentient beings. Therefore, we need to support him. That’s the main point.

For example, if something were to happen to His Holiness’s life, what would happen to Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism? Imagine how much suffering there would be. We’d have no guide; all those monasteries would also be guideless. Everything depends on His Holiness. Like a father and mother, His Holiness is everything; not only to Dharma students but especially to Tibetans. Who would we listen to if His Holiness were not there? You can see how much suffering there’d be without him.

If Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism is lost, the complete teaching of the Buddha is lost. If there’s no Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism there’s no complete teaching of the Buddha. Even though there might be Chinese Mahayana and other traditions, it’s only Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism that has everything—the Lesser Vehicle teachings, Mahayana sutra and Mahayana tantra; especially the complete teaching on tantra. You see how much suffering and confusion there’d be in the world. This is particularly true for Tibetans.

Therefore, it’s extremely important that you understand this. His Holiness’s advice is to not practice Shugden, therefore, we have to support His Holiness and fulfill his wishes on this point. That’s the essence of what I’m trying to say. I don’t know whether any of you are practicing Shugden, but this is just to inform those who do not know and to clarify the situation for those who do.

Another thing is that some Tibetans and others severely criticize Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo because he practiced Shugden, making him out to be some kind of demon. However, Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo wrote incredible teachings on sutra and tantra; on Heruka, Tara Cittamani and many other topics. All these amazing teachings were written purely from his experience. So it’s impossible that he can really be some kind of evil being, as those extremists accuse him of being. There’s no way he could have done the negative things they say he did.


My Question: So how can Pabongka Rinpoche be bad? If he is not evil, Dorje Shugden cannot be evil also?

The great translator Ra Lotsawa, one of the main Yamantaka lineage holders, is supposed to have killed many people through his tantric power, but nobody regards Ra Lotsawa as bad. Tantric powers are attained on the basis of bodhicitta, the realization of emptiness and the generation and completion stages of Highest Yoga Tantra, and when you gain the powers that come with the clear light and the illusory body and do wrathful actions—for example, separating evil beings’ consciousness from their body—the main point is to transfer their consciousness to the pure land. That’s the end result of wrathful tantric actions. Wrathful actions like that are done to benefit other sentient beings. When dealing with evil beings through peaceful actions doesn’t benefit them the only way left to benefit them is through wrathful actions. If you possess the necessary powers and qualities you can benefit others in that way with no danger to yourself. Not only can you but you are supposed to. It’s part of your samaya.

There are many stories about the great yogis and living beings. For example, one great yogi called Lobpön Jampel Shenyen made soup with live worms. And when Naropa first met his guru, Tilopa, he was down by the river cooking live fish and eating them, which made him think, “This can’t be Tilopa.” So when he asked, “Are you Tilopa?” Tilopa said, “No.” Later on, when Naropa had generated faith and again asked, “Are you Tilopa?” Tilopa said, “Yes.” Anyway, great yogis can assume such aspects.

The incarnation of Kyabje Dorje Chang, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, is His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru and the lama of all the Tibetan people, so it’s terrible if he’s hidden away in some corner as if there’s something wrong with him. That’s absolutely shameful. Therefore, the people around him have to think very extensively. In his previous life he performed incredibly holy actions; therefore, his present incarnation has the potential to spread Dharma in both the East and the West like the rising sun spreads light. Even just within the FPMT there are more than 120 centers in which he could spread the teaching of Lama Tsongkhapa when he finished his geshe degree. But the extent to which he can practice guru devotion and develop his holy actions depends almost entirely on his attendant.

My Question: If there's nothng wrong with Trijang Rinpoche, why IS he being sidelined? All because he doesn't wish to renounce his precious Dorje Shugden practice? It IS absolutely shameful!



I really like how you've bolded and highlighted interesting points and questions I would also ask WB. Thank you for this. In the such skilfulness, wisdom and compassion, Lama Zopa has said in here that is to be contemplated wisely. I am certain Lama Zopa has never abandoned the precious teachings/practices and advice given by HH Trijang Rinpoche and his Guru. There is much to digest in this post.

Hopefully students of fpmt will retract and stop disparaging Guru's as advice by their Guru Lama Zopa in this letter. It would be wise to stop all negative remarks.   

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2012, 05:21:13 AM »
After re-reading this thread a few times... My understanding is that what Lama Zopa is saying is we each need to make our own choices.

He has given points in both aspect, reasons why he stopped practising DS (publicly) and hence adviced Kopan to do so. He has made it clear that it is mainly to fulfil HHDL's wishes. Nothing was mentioned that DS is evil or a demon or is wrong practice. He advices firmly not to disparage any of the lineage Gurus/one's Guru/ even Dorje Shugden as he mentioned "This does not mean that Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, and His Holiness Song Rinpoche have made mistakes. It does not mean they are wrong. Nor does one have to look at the protector as evil. For us ordinary people it is difficult to judge, because we cannot see these lamas ’ minds.
Another side of the teaching is that it is mentioned that the protector is an Arya Bodhisattva, a manifestation of Manjushri. So, then, there is also the risk of our creating very heavy karma in that context.."


In a way Lama Zopa still have great Guru Devotion and faith in the Lineage masters and does not only advice it but has shown it through his actions as we can witness from the video showing him doing prayers in HH Trijang Rinpoche's stupa.

It also shows these are time most difficult not just students but for Lamas as well as they need to show the right examples. It seems like there are 2 sides/choices presented...
1) Lamas who follow HHDL wishes and stop DS practice and 2) Lamas who continue DS practice

However the advice presented from Lama Zopa is clear that both must thread the middle way by not having wrong view/faith towards HHDL/their Gurus, to not disparage HHDL nor the Lineage Lama's such as Pabongkha and Trijang Dorje Chang not Dorje Shugden. That is quite clear and seems to be the heart advice as it is also the advice from Trijang Dorje Chang when in his previous life predicted and pre-empted this situation and how we should react towards written down by HH Trijang Dorje Chang in pg125 of Music Delighting An Ocean.. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/articles/musicdelighting.pdf

We may not seem to understand the ultimate goal from this confusion now, but surely the divine minds has a plan of great benefit and all will be revealed in good time... hopefully soon.

rossoneri

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • Email
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2012, 10:26:28 AM »
By Lama Zopa doing a prayer at Trijang's Rinpoche's stupa is showing us that how much love, respect and Guru devotion he still has for his Honorable Guru Trijang Rinpoche. Put a side the political manner for a while and we sit back and think for a moment,
isn't it how religion or being a human supposed to be? Have ethic, respect, compassion for others? More over Trijang Rinpoche is one of His Guru.

Is very good for Lama Zopa showing the world an example which is not wrong to show respect to those who practices Dorje Shugden.

lotus1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2012, 06:42:40 PM »
Thank you Big Uncle and Wisdom Being for sharing.

Personally, I am very happy and rejoice to see Lama Zopa paying tribute to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche’s Stupa. He is showing his guru devotion despite the risk of seeing as against DL.

Fully agreed with Mana that Lama Zopa never lost faith in the DL, nor in the lineage guru of Dorje Shugden. I am sure he has a bigger reason behind. All the negative acts towards Dorje Shugden practitioners are done by the member of FPMT themselves due to their foolishness, wrong judgement and their own selfish gains! They should wake up and understand how wrong they have been and lift the ban. Stop creating negative karma!

pgdharma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2012, 03:49:21 PM »
Lama Zopa's guru devotion to his Guru, Trijang Rinpoche, never wavered and remained stable and strong.  I am certain he did not stop Dorje Shugden practice just because HHDL said so as that would mean breaking his samaya with his Guru. However, I believe that there is a bigger picture on HHDL’s ban on Dorje Shugden practice. I hope the members of FPMT will follow their Guru’s advice and wishes and stop disparaging Dorje Sugden and his practictioners  and create more negative karma for themselves.

ilikeshugden

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
    • Email
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2012, 01:42:54 AM »
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this – I can’t see why it’s bad at all. In fact, I rejoice wholeheartedly in Lama Zopa’s Guru Devotion. Lama Zopa is so brave. I really admire him. I do think that he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner. He is such a great Lama – I believe that he would privately practice. I think that during times like these, where the Dharma is scarce, one should fully devote in one’s guru and not separate from what the guru instructs for them to practice. If he is our guru, how can his practice be wrong?

Tenzin Malgyur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 551
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2012, 08:18:33 AM »
After reading this article, I feel Lama Zopa is showing everyone a true example of Guru devotion. With pressure from higher authorities to make all lamas to swear they are not practicing Dorje Shugden, being seen worshipping at the stupa of Trijang Rinpoche (the most famous Dorje Shugden practitioner) is certainly not a beautiful sight to all his students who openly criticise Shugden practitioners. I truly agree we should follow our guru's instructions to us and carry out the task. After all, why would our compassionate  and kind guru harm us?

biggyboy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2012, 09:50:16 AM »
Having Lama Zopa worshipping at Trijang Rinpoche's stupa is his way of respect to his Guru.  In my opinion there's no good or bad here...is just our perception.  Isn't it right and humane ethic for all to exercise that to respect others irrespective of creed, culture and religion?  I agree with rossoneri that Lama Zopa is showing the world an example that it is not wrong to show respect to those who practises Dorje Shugden.  Here Lama Zopa is neither saying he's against Dorje Shugden nor not following HHDL's instructions but purely his respect and love for his Guru Trijang Rinpoche.

Barzin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2012, 10:38:14 AM »
I find this beautiful.  I think Lama Zopa has a lot of courage despite the ban is on and how the majority of his disciples are against the practice of Droje Shugden.  It showed pure guru disciple relationship.  I wonder how his students feel when they see this video?  How silly it is to create a cause for the lama to suffer.  Seeing this video makes me feel sad, it is like Lama Zopa misses his guru and his health is degenerating...  But he is going to do what he got to do, to stand in that position to spread dharma in a way that the people can accept.  I believe each high attained lama has a role to play in this ban.  I pray very much for Lama Zopa's health to recover swiftly and witness the lifting of the ban soonest!

shugdenpromoter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
    • Email
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2012, 06:54:17 AM »
To me it does not matter whether Lama Zopa worship Shugden or not. WHAT I LIKE about this is that he shows respect to Trijang Rinpoche. It is great to see such respect especially when the other half of the Tibetans are not respectful towards Trijang Rinpoche.

There might be a message which Lama Zopa wants to tell the world by worshipping in front of Trijang Rinpoche Stupa. Afterall, all the anti Shugden monks or seem to be anti Shugden monks are avoiding great masters like Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche & etc. Maybe it is for his students and the other Tibetans to let them know, that he does worshipped Shugden deep inside..so do not caused anymore damages.

This is not uncommon, you will hear some monks from Gaden Shartse visiting Trijang Ladrang in Shar Gaden at night when it is pitch dark to make offerings. Thus I always like what a old student of Trijang Rinpoche has said to me.....WE (Trijang Rinpoche's students) will always follow our Lama NO MATTER how it seems to be, Trijang Rinpoche has never been WRONG. Thus, we should also follow our OWN LAMA NO MATTER WHAT.


vajraD

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 79
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2012, 04:10:06 PM »
Thank you for sharing the articles. There is no right or wrong answer to this topic. For me personally is good because he still highly respect his guru.

I like the picture of Lama Zopa praying in front of his guru stupa. That show how much guru devotion he have towards his guru no matter what other say of him.

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: LAMA ZOPA WORSHIPS AT TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S STUPA (good or bad?)
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2012, 04:54:28 PM »
Thanks for all the postings and links, and to Mana for starting such an important thread.

First, I think THIS is a particularly telling piece of news, about his students going to monasteries to request for DS pujas to be done for Lama Zopa's health: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1823.0

I don't think anyone has ever had doubt about Lama Zopa's intentions or his own practices. I respect him for his most neutral stance throughout the DS issue. the FPMT organisations choose not to do DS practice, but Lama Zopa has always been clear that it is not about disparaging a practice or the people who do it, but following the advice of the Dalai Lama - I suppose he must have his reasons for this.

What he says makes his stance very clear, as discussed in these threads below. Never does he speak harshly or badly in any way towards Dorje Shugden-pas.
Lama Zopa says it shameful: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=749.0
Who made lama Zopa a Rinpoche?: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=49.0


What isn't good however, is how students of FPMT have used this stance to put down other DS practitioners, speaking on behalf of the anti-Shugden groups to create both direct and indirect trouble to DS practitioners. Whatever Lama Zopa has decided, I am sure that disparaging other centers is not a part of his instruction. Students break samaya not just by doing one deity practice or not, but also by creating schism, speaking harshly and not acting kindly towards others: those would never be the instructions of a real teacher like Lama Zopa.