Author Topic: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE  (Read 18605 times)

WisdomBeing

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2010, 11:17:15 AM »
I don't wish to put an dampener on things but...isn't anyone else here slightly suspicious of the tulku system?  In the past, the Dalai Lama has supposedly recognised incarnations of reincarnated masters, but there are doubts as to how genuine his own recognition was and due to him there have been spectacular catastrophes such as the Panchen Lama and Karmapa debacle and also Lama Osel. How can anyone know, without doubt, that someone is someone elses's reincarnation?  You would need clairvoyance and who can you trust to make such unmistaken determinations in these degenerate times?

I have no doubt that great Masters will continue to emanate to benefit sentient beings, but why do they have to be recognised as actual incarnations?  Why can't we simply acknowledge them retrospectively for their great deeds instead of having to give them a title and recognition upfront, which is open to abuse by politically minded people seeking status and power?

I had thought that the Tulku recognition system is confirmed by a a few parties, eg High Lamas and the Protector via oracle. So it's not just one person who unilaterally declares someone as a tulku. When tulkus don't 'work out', I think it is not so much that they are not who they have been declared to be but that the circumstances changed so that they do not follow their set paths. Lama Osel is one such example who is particularly related to the Dorje Shugden issue. Since FPMT stopped the practice of Dorje Shugden, Lama Yeshe, who was a loyal Dorje Shugden practitioner, would not have been happy. I'm sure that he is manifesting as 'rebellious' because his students are not creating the causes for him to BE a tulku.

With regard to what you said re:
Quote
How can anyone know, without doubt, that someone is someone elses's reincarnation?  You would need clairvoyance and who can you trust to make such unmistaken determinations in these degenerate times?

I would trust Dorje Shugden. If Dorje Shugden says that someone is an incarnation of a Master, I will trust 100%. I would also trust my Guru 100%. Would you not trust YOUR Guru?
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

crazycloud

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2010, 03:15:15 PM »
If Dorje Shugden says that someone is an incarnation of a Master, I will trust 100%. I would also trust my Guru 100%. Would you not trust YOUR Guru?

Sure, we all trust Dorje Shugden and our Guru's 100%.

However, the nature of the times is so degenerate that the Tulku system is threatening the Dharma itself. I find it ironic that the people here on this forum do not recognize this.

The blind faith and unquestioning obedience of the followers of the Dalai Lama arises directly from the fact thet they believe him to be Avalokiteshvara. It is not a spiritual practice of guru yoga, they think he actually is Buddha, from his own side. THIS is extreme view, and it causes untold mayhem.

So it begins to become a popular belief, uncritically held by the public, and these "tulkus" begin to accumulate wealth and worldly power. Then masses of people "trust them 100%" and when they say a pure lineage is degenerate, these lovely people trust them. 100%.

The fact that our lineage has been so persecuted and so many have suffered so much is a direct result of the tulku system. With it in place, in combination with the extreme minds of our degenerate time, all the extreme conditions for the pure dharma to be destroyed are assembled.

It seems to me to many here have a theisitc view of the dharma, they want to run around proselyzing and converting others, emphasizing growth and numbers, and getting exited about "exotic" aspects of the path, like tulkus and oracles, looking for a savior. Oracles are humans. Other beings can take control of them in trance. When Dorje Shugden "says something" as you put it, you have no idea that it is not an actual harmful deity with bad intentions. The DL's Oracle is believed 100% by the tibetans when he says Dorje Shugden is a malicious spirit. Why? Tulkus.

Look at Trijang Rinpoche, he went along with the recognition of tenzin gyatso, a worldly being, as the Dalai Lama because he thought there might be some benefit, but it didn't work out. Just because our lama says something doesnt mean it is true, often great lamas use skillfull means to accomplish their aims.

I am so grateful that my Lama has said that he will be reborn among his disciples, but will show a good example and study and practice like everyone else. If he has good qualities, he will naturally come to be recognized by those with wisdom. To my mind, THAT is how the Dharma works.

I am not impressed by "rinpoches" unless I am impressed by them, if you see what I mean.

Forget rock star hollywood dharma style tulku adoration, it is like sleeping with a cobra. Might be fine, might be the end of you.

WoselTenzin

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2010, 10:45:32 PM »
Dear TK,

Thank you very much for the explanation on Tulkus.  I believe that a high incarnate being can recognise another high incarnate being.  How? I don't know but I just accept it based on faith.  However, when you said

"Certainly Nirmanakayas can appear specifically with control to benefit and other controlled nirmanakayas can recognize them."

it gives me a better understanding.  When you used the word "nirmanakaya", it reenforces the fact that Tulkus are enlightened beings and that's why they can take controlled rebirth and it is possible for a Tulku to recognise another Tulku because their minds are all knowing and omnicient.

However, I still can't understand why some Tulkus don't make it but I figure it is not due the Tulkus themselves as Tulkus manifest in this world solely for the benefit of others.  It is most probably the people they were meant to benefit had broken samaya with them and hence obstruct their ability to benefit them.

One example is Lama Osel who is an incarnation of Lama Yeshe.  In his lifetime, Lama Yeshe was a devoted practitioner of Dorje Shugden.  However, the organization that he founded, FPMT opposed the practice of Dorje Shudgen.  Hence, a demerit so great was created that the current incarnation of Lama Yeshe could not effectively carry out his role as Lama to benefit the people he was meant to benefit.

WisdomBeing

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2010, 01:00:44 AM »
So it begins to become a popular belief, uncritically held by the public, and these "tulkus" begin to accumulate wealth and worldly power. Then masses of people "trust them 100%" and when they say a pure lineage is degenerate, these lovely people trust them. 100%.


I have heard that there are some Tulkus who accumulate wealth and worldly power to benefit others. It is never for their personal use and their sponsors are in fact administering to the funds. If the Tulkus were squandering funds on their personal purposes, these sponsors would tell them to take a hike.

We are told to check out our Gurus before taking them on as our Gurus, so if we see that someone is abusing their power or not being consistent etc, then we should not take them as our Gurus.


Quote
The fact that our lineage has been so persecuted and so many have suffered so much is a direct result of the tulku system. With it in place, in combination with the extreme minds of our degenerate time, all the extreme conditions for the pure dharma to be destroyed are assembled.

It seems to me to many here have a theisitc view of the dharma, they want to run around proselyzing and converting others, emphasizing growth and numbers, and getting exited about "exotic" aspects of the path, like tulkus and oracles, looking for a savior. Oracles are humans. Other beings can take control of them in trance. When Dorje Shugden "says something" as you put it, you have no idea that it is not an actual harmful deity with bad intentions. The DL's Oracle is believed 100% by the tibetans when he says Dorje Shugden is a malicious spirit. Why? Tulkus.


Well, i don't think 100% Tibetans believe that otherwise the Dorje Shugden practice would have immediately died out!

Quote

Look at Trijang Rinpoche, he went along with the recognition of tenzin gyatso, a worldly being, as the Dalai Lama because he thought there might be some benefit, but it didn't work out. Just because our lama says something doesnt mean it is true, often great lamas use skillfull means to accomplish their aims.


Yes, i do agree there that the great lama use skilful means always. It is our deluded samsaric minds which often cannot comprehend and pass judgment but we speak empty words because we do not hold any vows or take any responsibility for our criticisms.

Quote

I am so grateful that my Lama has said that he will be reborn among his disciples, but will show a good example and study and practice like everyone else. If he has good qualities, he will naturally come to be recognized by those with wisdom. To my mind, THAT is how the Dharma works.

I am not impressed by "rinpoches" unless I am impressed by them, if you see what I mean.


I do see what you mean :) Me too.


Quote

Forget rock star hollywood dharma style tulku adoration, it is like sleeping with a cobra. Might be fine, might be the end of you.

I heard that there are tulkus who do not even teach, they are monks who are low profile and just go about their daily lives. In my limited view, tulkus may be recognised but it is through their actions in their current life that their attainments will show themselves. Some will immediately venerate a tulku just because they are a tulku and some will check him/her out and only follow them after they are convinced of their qualities. In this as in many other aspects, different strokes for different folks.

All we can do is to share with others who are spiritually inclined that they should check out the Guru (tulku or not) before taking him or her as their Guru. Many don't check them out and then get into bad samaya which benefits nobody.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

harrynephew

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2010, 12:35:07 PM »
Life,
a source to drink the nectar of Liberation
Body,
a vessel upholding the sacred Teachings
Soul,
transmigrating every time to heal others
Force,
the unmistaken power of Nirmanakaya.

I am happy to receive this news of the great incarnation's of the Ra Lotsawa's coming back! It moves my heart to know that they have not abandoned us.

H1N1
Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

LosangKhyentse

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2010, 01:05:18 PM »
Dear TK,

Thank you very much for the explanation on Tulkus.  I believe that a high incarnate being can recognise another high incarnate being.  How? I don't know but I just accept it based on faith.  However, when you said

"Certainly Nirmanakayas can appear specifically with control to benefit and other controlled nirmanakayas can recognize them."

it gives me a better understanding.  When you used the word "nirmanakaya", it reenforces the fact that Tulkus are enlightened beings and that's why they can take controlled rebirth and it is possible for a Tulku to recognise another Tulku because their minds are all knowing and omnicient.

However, I still can't understand why some Tulkus don't make it but I figure it is not due the Tulkus themselves as Tulkus manifest in this world solely for the benefit of others.  It is most probably the people they were meant to benefit had broken samaya with them and hence obstruct their ability to benefit them.

One example is Lama Osel who is an incarnation of Lama Yeshe.  In his lifetime, Lama Yeshe was a devoted practitioner of Dorje Shugden.  However, the organization that he founded, FPMT opposed the practice of Dorje Shudgen.  Hence, a demerit so great was created that the current incarnation of Lama Yeshe could not effectively carry out his role as Lama to benefit the people he was meant to benefit.



Yes, FPMT has broken a very strong samaya by giving up the practice of Lama Yeshe. Dorje Shugden was the one that worked hand in hand with Lama Yeshe to get Kopan land, find sponsors, build, and increase the centres around the world. Zong Rinpoche and Trijang Dorje Chang were the root lamas of Lama Yeshe. By giving up their Dorje Shugden practice, they send a message to the world and themselves that Zong Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche were wrong. Certainly they were not wrong in any way. Cannot be selective in the pursuit of enlightenment. That breaks the lineal blessings right there.

Lama Yeshe in the form of Lama Osel is the correct incarnation. Dorje Shugden has confirmed it in the beginning. Lama Zopa consulted Dorje Shugden through the Gaden Oracle himself.

Lama Yeshe will not be able to manifest at this time until their samayas are repaired. If they wait too long, then the chance to manifest at all will pass completely for this lifetime.

Buddha appeared in this world, but samsara is not empty. Certainly that is not Buddha's fault. Nagarjuna appeared and lived 600 years, but not everyone still has understood the truth of Emptiness and hence released from dualism. If the lake is not still and free of movement, then the moon cannot be seen in it clearly. That is not the fault of the moon.

TK


Midakpa

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2010, 02:15:57 AM »
TK is right. Tulkus, out of great compassion, take rebirth again and again to lead sentient beings out of samsara. If we are still in samsara, it is not their fault. It is our fault, for not transforming, and for not seeing the truth even when it is staring us in the face. The reflection of the moon can only be seen if the water is clear and still.

Personally, I'm very grateful to the tulkus and I believe in the work they are doing. At the moment, due to my ignorance, I may not understand fully the meaning of certain actions performed by some tulkus, including those of the Dalai Lama, but that doesn't mean I don't believe. I think that with practice, and by building up merits and purifying obscurations, I will eventually understand. Understanding will come naturally. When the water is calm, the reflection of the moon will be seen.

"First, reverse your meritless state;
Next, refute the self;
Finally, the one view refutes all.
He who knows this is skilled." (from Aryadeva's Four Hundred Verses)

Manjushri

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2011, 07:03:02 PM »
How splendid to hear the news of high lamas reincarnating back, but I feel that it is sad that because of the ban, lamas like Dagom Rinpoche cannot surface to the world, and must still be in 'hiding' to keep safe.

If we look deeper into HHDL's reason for the ban, He says that we must not practice Dorje Shugden for he is a spirit. But if this is the case, then all the high lams that have been faithfully practising and relying on Dorje Shugden would not be re-incarnated back into today's society like Dagom Rinpoche right? They would lose their powers, clairvoyance and ability to control death and re-birth. I also recently read from dorjeshudgen.com that HH Kyabje Denma Gonsa Rinpoche's incarnation is back with us. Again, another high lama who's a DS practitioner is back. So what does it tell you?

If propritiating a spirit can give you such high attainments, then there is no attained being that's needed.

Anyways, I am happy and feel extremely fortunate that high lamas who are practitioners of Lord Dorje Shugden exists amongsts us and carry on the practice.

icy

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2012, 12:59:26 AM »
It has been many months since discovering the new reincarnation of Dagom Rinpoche.  Does any one know when will the actual recognition be?  I am looking forward to  another celebration of a high lama practitioner of Dorje Shugden soon. 

What a blatant lie about Dorje Shugden.  Isn't it weird practitioner of Dorje Shugden supposedly to be spirit is back with us to continue his work?  With their unmistaken reincarnations these high lamas are here again to prove Dorje Shugden is really an enlighten being.

Ensapa

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2012, 01:10:50 AM »
TK's post is really informative. ironically, there seems to be a growing trend of tulkus not manifesting "correctly" ie: as traditional Dharma teachers. By deriding their own Guru how do they expect to get their Guru again? but then again if they dont follow HHDL's orders they will lose their "grounding" and will lose backing from HHDL and become an "illegal" center. Not an excuse since NKT managed to do it.

I am so happy  that Dagom Rinpoche has came back  to teach us all once again. I saw pictures of his funeral in Thailand and joined in for the prayers of his swift rebirth as well. But it is incredible that he manifests clear qualities of past life from a young age, as proof that he is the mistaken incarnation and is enthroned to train to continue his works in his previous life. I hope they do a documentary on this soon!

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: BRIEF NEWS RE KYABJE DAGOM RINPOCHE
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2015, 04:45:16 AM »
Though the title to this article seem brief but the contents are extremely interesting, with TK giving clear insight into the incarnations of High Lamas who will at their will and compassion reincarnate to help all sentient beings.  All their incarnations are of the same mind stream and duly endorsed by Dorje Shugden.

As Dorje Shugden's devotees, it is impossible not to have faith in Dorje Shugden's endorsement.

Basically another point I wish to bring on is that if we do not know and we have a practice that logically explain why, then what do we loose by having faith.  Samsara needs incarnations of High Lamas to lead us to liberation, we can only gain by believing than by doubting.