Author Topic: Southern Lamrim.  (Read 21634 times)

Zach

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Southern Lamrim.
« on: March 19, 2011, 03:11:29 PM »
Dear friends I was wondering if anyone could tell me the difference between southern Lamrim and the other version ? what are the specifics of the difference  :)

Heartspoon

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2011, 12:31:33 PM »
You can read the following student's notes on a lamrim teaching of Geshe Jinpa Sonam that has as a subject:

Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand: A Concise Discourse on the Path to Enlightenment
by Pabongka Rinpoche

http://www.indianabuddhist.org/Liberation_StudentsNotes7.htm
http://www.indianabuddhist.org/Liberation_StudentsNotes8.html

Heartspoon

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2011, 12:34:25 PM »

Heartspoon

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2011, 12:41:32 PM »
If you understand French, you will find here a "Southern Lamrim" book:

http://anecdotesbouddhistes.blogspot.com/2008/03/le-lamrim-de-la-ligne-du-sud.html

Heartspoon

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 12:51:56 PM »
This French "Southern Lamrim" book was translated by a student of Dagpo Rinpoche.
Dagpo Rinpoche is living in France since a long time, I think he came there in the 1960's
if not even earlier.
The Dagpo lineage is of major importance; you can read more about it and the Southern Lineage here:

http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1800a.html

Heartspoon

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2011, 01:01:37 PM »
Dagpo Rinpoche was recognized as the reincarnation of Dagpo Jampel Lhundrub who was one of Pabongkha Rinpoche’s gurus...

Zach

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2011, 02:14:28 PM »
Thanks heartspoon that was very helpful my friend !  :)

WisdomBeing

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2011, 06:24:53 PM »
Since Dagpo Jamphel Lhundrup Rinpoche was the one who taught the Lamrim to Pabongka Rinpoche, the Dagpo lineage is very important indeed.

Re the southern lamrim tradition, I especially liked the story of how HH the 13th Dalai Lama tried to question the source of the southern Lamrim and put Pabongka Rinpoche down. However, Pabongka Rinpoche explained everything via a letter to the 13th Dalai Lama, and made references backed up by scriptural sources, which finally convinced the 13th Dalai Lama of the validity of the southern lamrim tradition.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Vajraprotector

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 08:05:28 PM »
Yes I remember reading that from HH Pabongkha Rinpoche's biography online here, let me copy it here so that everyone can have a read about the incident. Thank you Wisdombeing for a great reminder about the incomparable HH Pabongkha Rinpoche  :).

I personally think it was the 13th Dalai Lama's way to show the greatness of Pabongkha Rinpoche to others by "challenging" Pabongkha Rinpoche in that way. You should read the one about HH the 13th Dalai Lama asking Pabongkha Rinpoche to make rain. I said this because the 13th Dalai Lama requested Kyabje Pabongka to give the yearly Lamrim teachings in 1925 (usually it's the Gaden Tripa who teaches and the teachings is for 7 days), and that year, it went on for 11 days  ;D!


From His Holiness Pabongka Rinpoche’s Biography on dorjeshugden.com
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=3965

There was one incident in which Pabongka was summoned by His Holiness to prove that his Southern Lamrim Tradition called, Shargyu, was genuine. Somehow this tradition was not popular in Tibet at that time, and very little was known about it. Therefore, one could not find much proof of its source. It was not written anywhere in the regular texts studied in the monasteries. There were even talks amongst learned scholars of Pabongka introducing a strange system of a Southern tradition that he learnt from an old monk in some village in a corner of Tibet. Hence, people were trying to refute the authenticity of this Southern style Lamrim. In this respect, His Holiness had to do something to intervene and asked Pabongka to provide solid evidence.

The Southern Lamrim tradition was what Pabongka has studied under Dagpo Rinpoche. Being fiercely devoted to his Root Guru, Pabongka would not tolerate anyone disparaging his Guru’s name or even remotely implying that his Guru was wrong in any way. So, Pabongka had to send a letter in reply to the Thirteenth Dalai Lama’s questions.

At first, Pabongka did not think it was so serious. However, upon hearing that without concrete proof, he would have to declare that his newly introduced Southern Lamrim tradition to be a fraud and no one would be allowed to practice it, he was unwilling to risk any injury to his Guru’s name. So, Pabongka thought for a while and then said to the Manager of his labrang, “Under these circumstances, I shall reply. I shall dictate and you go ahead and take notes”.

Then Pabongka quoted, “The Buddha said in this sutra and that sutra and in the collected works of the Buddha in volume such and such this is written and right at this moment Your Holiness is sitting in your room and if you look at your back in the third shelf, open that book and read on page 146 at the back side the 6th line, there it says this, this and then, if you look at your left side, on the second shelf, the second volume number, this and this, pull that book out and there it says this, this, this….”

Pabongka continued, “This is the proof from the Kanjur and if you read this book by Asanga which is available in Your Holiness’s room on such and such a shelf in the outer volume whose colour is this, and the inner book is this, and then, if you look at line this, line that, page number this and this, you will find it. And from the Tibetan tradition, look in the works of your late Master, Purchog Jampa Rinpoche, in volume number four of his collected works, which is in Your Holiness’s bedroom on such and such a shelf and the colour of the cloth is this and the page number is that.”

Pabongka Rinpoche was so precise and confident in pointing out the details for His Holiness to find every piece of evidence to support his Southern Lamrim tradition. This letter was then given to His Holiness’s Chamberlain to be delivered into the hands of His Holiness.

When the Thirteenth Dalai Lama read it, he asked his Chamberlain to take out the exact books and volumes as described by Pabongka in the letter. Everything was proved right. Then His Holiness asked his Chamberlain, “Did you know and tell him I would be in this room?” The Chamberlain answered, “No.” His Holiness did not comment any further.


thaimonk

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 03:49:40 AM »
Vajraprotector,

You really give it your all when you post. Some people post information only. Some just questons only and some just very focussed on certain subjects. But you really go out of your way to post dharma information for the benefit of all of us here. Much appreciations.

Losang_Tenpa

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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 12:49:41 PM »
I agree with Thaimonk. Those who are able to give it their all are benefitting many with this type of Dharma information.

Unfortunately, due to lack of time, I am one of those who can only post every so often.

Thanks everyone for youe efforts. Many people I know appreciate the updates, even if they are not able to post in this forum.

Big Uncle

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 03:13:31 AM »
The Southern Lamrim tradition as passed through Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche is based on combining The Swift Path and two lineages of Manjushri's Own Words. The Swift Path is a commentary composed by Panchen Lama Lobsang Yeshe based on the root text- The Easy Path, which was composed by Panchen Lama Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen. Manjushri's Own Words is also a Lamrim text composed by the Great Fifth Dalai Lama. This information is extracted from Liberation in The Palm of Your Hands, The Preliminaries Chapter: Day One, Page 40-41.




Big Uncle

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 03:18:05 AM »
The Southern Lamrim tradition as passed through Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche is based on combining The Swift Path and two lineages of Manjushri's Own Words. The Swift Path is a commentary composed by Panchen Lama Lobsang Yeshe based on the root text- The Easy Path, which was composed by Panchen Lama Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen. Manjushri's Own Words is also a Lamrim text composed by the Great Fifth Dalai Lama. This information is extracted from Liberation in The Palm of Your Hands, The Preliminaries Chapter: Day One, Page 40-41.




Heartspoon

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 08:38:58 AM »
The Southern Lamrim tradition as passed through Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche is based on combining The Swift Path and two lineages of Manjushri's Own Words. The Swift Path is a commentary composed by Panchen Lama Lobsang Yeshe based on the root text- The Easy Path, which was composed by Panchen Lama Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen. Manjushri's Own Words is also a Lamrim text composed by the Great Fifth Dalai Lama. This information is extracted from Liberation in The Palm of Your Hands, The Preliminaries Chapter: Day One, Page 40-41.

No. It isn't like that...

Helena

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Re: Southern Lamrim.
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 08:52:11 AM »
Dear Heartspoon, If it is not like that as you have written. Then what it is like? Care to elaborate for the rest of us here so that we can learn too?

Thank you in advance.
Helena