Author Topic: The Fake Karmapa is destroying the precious Karma Kagyu Lineage! Can't CTA help?  (Read 18907 times)

Alex

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What you said could be true. Tibetans overall are not interested in politics. For generations, they are so used to live under the Dalai Lama's leadership. They have no idea about politics, no idea about human rights and even no idea about how to live without the Dalai Lama. Since Lobsang Sangay belongs to CTA, and the Dalai Lama supports CTA, I think people will just think, "forget about it, just follow the Dalai Lama". I believe this is the overall mindsets. therefore until now, the Tibetans are still content with the CTA's fake democracy.

Tibetans in exile are too sheltered and they do not know anything outside of Tibet prior to 1959. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is their god-king and they will follow him no matter what he said. This kind of mindset existed several hundreds of years already since the 5th Dalai Lama's time. Anyone who goes against the Dalai Lama will not have a good ending. Hence, no one dares to oppose His Holiness or the government.

When they came to India in 1959, they bring the exact same mentality with them. Those who refuse to see the world outside of Tibet will be stuck with that kind of attitude while those who are willing to step out of their comfort zone will be able to see a whole new world. That is why, those Tibetans who went overseas, will be more successful and will be able to see the true colors of their government.

Just look at the Tibetans who self-immolate to fight for the freedom of their country. There is no way for them to get back their country now and all they manage to achieve by burning themselves to death is more sympathy and money for CTA. There is also the main reason why CTA encourages their people to self-immolate. Tibetans who are exposed and can think logically will never do such harmful act to themselves because it is a waste of precious human lives. That is why Tibetans need to leave their government and join India or go back to Tibet.

Drolma

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The CTA is not interested in preserving Buddhism or any lineage, of course they will not protect Kagyu lineage. Look at how they have caused the Gelug lineage to break into two fractions. They care more about the money than anything else.

The CTA is actually using Buddhism to make money. They promote themselves as the protector of ancient Buddhist culture but they have not done much towards the preservation of Buddhism. All they do is they 'export' the monks to perform Buddhist chanting on the stage and make sand Mandalas to entertain people. They don't allocate much budget to help the Tibetan Buddhist monasteries in India and Nepal. Nobody knows how exactly they spend the money given by the sponsors.

If the CTA can gain something from the 2 Karmapas issue, they sure will get involved without anyone asking for their help. But since the 2 Karmapas issue don't bring benefit to them and it will give them more work, they would rather keep quiet. This is how the CTA destroys their precious culture and Buddhism.

Rowntree

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We should not forget that the 14th Sharmapa went to His Holiness the Dalai Lama to ask him to withdraw his acknowledgement of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley recognised by Tai Situ. The Dalai Lama said he couldn't withdraw. There had never been a tradition where the Dalai Lama is involved with the recognition of the Karmapa and definitely not by Tai Situ. It has always been the Sharmapa recognising the Karmapa and vice versa.

If the Dalai Lama didn't involve in it, none of this confusion will arise. Please listen to what the Sharmapa has to say. Real practitioner speaks the truth fearlessly. This is a very admirable quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHBAsBi9hys

Alex

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We should not forget that the 14th Sharmapa went to His Holiness the Dalai Lama to ask him to withdraw his acknowledgement of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley recognised by Tai Situ. The Dalai Lama said he couldn't withdraw. There had never been a tradition where the Dalai Lama is involved with the recognition of the Karmapa and definitely not by Tai Situ. It has always been the Sharmapa recognising the Karmapa and vice versa.

If the Dalai Lama didn't involve in it, none of this confusion will arise. Please listen to what the Sharmapa has to say. Real practitioner speaks the truth fearlessly. This is a very admirable quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHBAsBi9hys

Yes! Not many high lamas out there is as brave as the Sharmapa. He told His Holiness directly that he is wrong and he should retract his endorsement of Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. Sharmapa is right because His Holiness the Dalai Lama does not have the authority to recognize a Karma Kagyu high lama. There are no such examples before.

They exploited His Holiness's fame and endorsed Ogyen Trinley and created the 2 Karmapa situation as Sharmapa also has chosen his candidate of the Karmapa. According to the lineage, Sharmapa is the one who has the authority to recognize the next Karmapa and be his regent.

Now that Sharmapa is back again, we will know that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the good and authentic Karmapa. With the recent event of Karmapa Thaye Dorje ignoring the CTA and His Holiness, we can make a smart guest that Dorje Shugden is preparing h

daka

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We should not forget that the 14th Sharmapa went to His Holiness the Dalai Lama to ask him to withdraw his acknowledgement of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley recognised by Tai Situ. The Dalai Lama said he couldn't withdraw. There had never been a tradition where the Dalai Lama is involved with the recognition of the Karmapa and definitely not by Tai Situ. It has always been the Sharmapa recognising the Karmapa and vice versa.

If the Dalai Lama didn't involve in it, none of this confusion will arise. Please listen to what the Sharmapa has to say. Real practitioner speaks the truth fearlessly. This is a very admirable quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHBAsBi9hys


The reason behind the Dalai Lama's involvement in this Karmapa issue always puzzles me. The Karma Kagyu's reincarnation tradition actually started much earlier than the Gelugs, it has never been an issue even long before the era of the 1st Dalai Lama. In fact, the Dalai Lamas never and shouldn't have involved in the recognition of any of the Karmapa. The tradition of the recognition of  the Karmapa has long been set, ie before each Karmapa passes away, he will leave behind a letter foretelling the exact circumstances of his next rebirth. The key is the letter.

Even if for the case of the recognition of the 17th Karmapa, that whereabouts of the particular letter seems to be the key problem, it still has nothing to do with the Dalai Lama. And even if the Karma Kagyu really sought help from the Dalai Lama, what the Dalai Lama should do is still related to the letter, He could have used his clairvoyance to help in locating the letter, but not directly jumped into the recognition of the Karmapa itself. Things could have been much easy and simple and less political. Why the Dalai Lama and the CTA didn't do that but chose to do it the wrong way instead, and did it in such a rush? It's all very suspicious.

Alex

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We should not forget that the 14th Sharmapa went to His Holiness the Dalai Lama to ask him to withdraw his acknowledgement of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley recognised by Tai Situ. The Dalai Lama said he couldn't withdraw. There had never been a tradition where the Dalai Lama is involved with the recognition of the Karmapa and definitely not by Tai Situ. It has always been the Sharmapa recognising the Karmapa and vice versa.

If the Dalai Lama didn't involve in it, none of this confusion will arise. Please listen to what the Sharmapa has to say. Real practitioner speaks the truth fearlessly. This is a very admirable quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHBAsBi9hys


The reason behind the Dalai Lama's involvement in this Karmapa issue always puzzles me. The Karma Kagyu's reincarnation tradition actually started much earlier than the Gelugs, it has never been an issue even long before the era of the 1st Dalai Lama. In fact, the Dalai Lamas never and shouldn't have involved in the recognition of any of the Karmapa. The tradition of the recognition of  the Karmapa has long been set, ie before each Karmapa passes away, he will leave behind a letter foretelling the exact circumstances of his next rebirth. The key is the letter.

Even if for the case of the recognition of the 17th Karmapa, that whereabouts of the particular letter seems to be the key problem, it still has nothing to do with the Dalai Lama. And even if the Karma Kagyu really sought help from the Dalai Lama, what the Dalai Lama should do is still related to the letter, He could have used his clairvoyance to help in locating the letter, but not directly jumped into the recognition of the Karmapa itself. Things could have been much easy and simple and less political. Why the Dalai Lama and the CTA didn't do that but chose to do it the wrong way instead, and did it in such a rush? It's all very suspicious.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama should not have gotten himself involved in the recognition of the Karmapa because he is from the Gelug sect and not Karma Kagyu sect. His Holiness the Dalai Lama, with all due respect, should not have recognized the Karmapa and he does not have the authority to do that in the first place.

The Dalai Lama has never been involved in the matters of recognizing the Karmapa ever and this is the first time a Dalai Lama recognize a Karmapa. In history, it was Sharmapa who will be the one responsible and with authority to recognize the next Karmapa. It has been like this for hundreds of years and it is the tradition of the Karma Kagy lineage.

CTA used Dalai Lama's fame to recognize another Karmapa causing a rift in the Karma Kagyu sect. The followers are torn between 2 Karmapas and it is very detrimental to the unity of the sect. Hence, CTA did it on purpose to split the Karma Kagyu sect followers so that it is easier to control them.

Rowntree

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Something funny to share with everyone.

The Gaden Phodrang (now known as Central Tibetan Administration) banned the reincarnations (recognition) of the Shamarpa since the 10th Shamarpa, Mipam Chödrup Gyamtso (1742–1793). The 10th Shamarpa was the stepbrother of the 6th Panchen Lama, Lobsang Palden Yeshe (1738–1780). There was a dispute over his claim to his stepbrother's material inheritance led to an armed conflict in which the Shamarpa conspired with the Nepalese Gurkha army in 1788.

Together with other disputes between the Gelug and Kagyu schools, the Shamarpa had to live in exile from Tibet. In addition, a legal ban was imposed by the Gaden Phodrang on further Shamarpa incarnations. This ban remained in place until after the 14th Dalai Lama lost power in Tibet during the 1950s. Just like Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, the Tibetan government banned his recognition and confiscated all his properties as he was seen as a threat to the Dalai Lama's role. It is a very common practice for the Tibetan government to ban a reincarnation when they feel threatened. There is no democracy whatsoever even until today. 

It was later revealed that the Karmapa had recognized reincarnations of the Shamarpa secretly during the intervening period although there was a ban. The 16th Karmapa was a good friend of the 3rd Trijang Rinpoche and also friendly with the 14th Dalai Lama. Rumours had it that the 16th Karmapa spoke to the 14th Dalai Lama and had the ban lifted for the Sharmapa's recognition, which the Dalai Lama agreed.

The funny thing was, after the ban was lifted and the Sharmapa was again recognised, the 14th Sharma Rinpoche immediately caused trouble for the Dalai Lama / CTA! The Sharmapa took the controversial case of the 17th Karmapa to the Dalai Lama and requested him to withdraw his recognition of the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley (a candidate recognised by Tai Situ), creating troubles for the Dalai Lama / CTA just like how the 10th Sharmapa did. The Dalai Lama must really regret to have lifted the ban ;D ;D ;D

The 14th Shamar Rinpoche, Tai Situ Rinpoche, Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche, and Goshir Gyaltsab Rinpoche agreed to form a council of regents to take joint responsibility for the spiritual affairs of the Karma Kagyu lineage, alternating as the regent for the Karmapa every three years, after the death of the 16th Karmapa. This regency was, however, dissolved in 1984 having only functioned for three years after the 16th Karmapa's death due to a breach of agreement among them.

Traditionally, the Karmapa has always been the one who recognises the Shamar Rinpoche and vice versa, just like how the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama recognises each other. This has been the tradition for the lineage for decades. However, Tai Situ decided to recognise his own Karmapa. Hence the split of the regency and the Karmapa controversy.

The Sharmapa is seen as a trouble maker for the Dalai Lama and CTA because he dare to speak the truth and stand for what is right. He respected the Dalai Lama but he is not afraid to speak his mind politely. Now that the 15th Sharmapa is born under the Karmapa Thaye Dorje (the candidate recognised by the 14th Sharma Rinpoche) family and the Karmapa Thaye Dorje ignored the Dalai Lama in the recent Kagyu Monlam event in Bodhgaya, we shall see the revival of the Karma Kagyu power against the Dalai Lama's (aka Ganden Phodrang aka CTA) rule.

No matter how much the eight world dharma seems to be in control, the truth (the dharma) will always prevail over them. This is another sign of the falling of CTA for sure!

daka

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Thanks for posting this story. I remember someone posted this a few years ago, I couldn't find the post. Gaden Phodrang has never really had a good relationship with the Karma Kagyu. To ban the reincarnation of the 2nd highest lama of Karma Kagyu for almost 2 centuries definitely is not a friendly gesture Gaden Phodrang has shown show to Karma Kagyu.

If the relationship between Gaden Phodrang and the Karma Kagyu has been quite tense for so many years, how could we believe whatever action or decision that Gaden Phodrang (now CTA) made in relation to Karma Kagyu is with good intention?

Shamarpa and Karmapa are supposed to recognize each other's reincarnation. Putting the Shamarpa in exile and banning his reincarnation is like to amputate one of Karma Kagyu's legs. If someone amputated your left leg with no obvious valid reason before, are you going to trust him with your right leg? Letting the CTA recognized the Karmapa is just like that. Not even to mention the Gaden Phodrang has no right to be involved with the recognition of the Karmapa, even if it does, the process of the recognition of the 17th Karmapa is so rush, so unprofessional and without going thorough examination and proper procedure. Make it looks more like a power fight. I am surprised not many really fight hard to clarify this.

SabS

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Wow! Thank you, Rowntree, for sharing the history of Ganden Podrang and the 10th Sharmapa. It is interesting how money could enter into the upper echelon of Buddhist Leaders. Guess, greed can still be a very strong pulling factor no matter what position you may be. It would seem that if the Dalai Lama should pass, then the next highest would be the Karmapa since the Panchen Lama is located in China. So the Karmapa is a very crucial piece of chess or pawn to the interested party, especially CTA. No wonder CTA dare not announce who the real Karmapa is. Don't want to cut their lifeline in case one or the other Karmapa does not work out.  8)

Drolma

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The CTA and Mr. Lobsang Sangay are definitely very delusional and refuse to see the truth. The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorjee is not coming back, full stop! Who will be so stupid to go back to India to be controlled and under the surveillance for 24 hours, 7 days a week? The 17th Karmapa has already expressed his unhappiness towards the CTA, how he was not allowed to learn from many Kagyu masters and to spread Dharma. He is not that stupid to go back to them.

Not only the CTA makes the lives of the Tibetans miserable, but they are also making the lives of the lamas miserable and depressing. This is how capable the CTA is. They are destructive and bring no benefit to anyone. Thus, to ask if the CTA can help to preserve the precious Karma Kagyu lineage? The answer is no.

The CTA is only after their own benefits, they don't care about the Tibetans, the preservation of the precious Tibetan Buddhism or anyone. This has been their culture even before they went into exile. The Dalai Lama wishes very much to change the political culture and mentality but he has failed. The Tibetan leadership still wants to control the Tibetans like in the old days, treating them and exploiting them like slaves.
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http://www.tibetanjournal.com/karmapa-will-return-back-india-assures-president-sangay/

Karmapa Will Return Back to India Assures President Sangay

Amid the protracted issue over the return of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorjee to India after he left the country in 2017, the President of Central Tibetan Administration, Dr. Lobsang Sangay has assured of his return. The Karmapa has been based in the United States over the past more than one year besides his short visits to Europe and Canada.

Since the Karmapa left India since May 2017, he has been on an extended stay predominantly in the United States due to medical reasons. Later in the year 2018, the Karmapa announced that he has acquired the citizenship of Commonwealth of Dominica and received a passport of the same. Although he had left India on the Identity Certificate (IC), a travel document issued by the government of India for Tibetan refugees, the passport of Commonwealth of Dominica was sought to ease the complications associated with travelling on the travel document.

There has been rising controversy with regard to the return of the Tibetan spiritual guru to India. While the Karmapa reported of problems in receiving an official nod from the government of India for his return, the officials of the External Affairs ministry said that the Karmapa is welcome to India but he has not applied for a visa for the same.

President Sangay in a recent conversation with the Times of India, he acknowledged that Karmapa taking the citizenship of Dominican Republic is a personal choice and assured that he will return to India.

“Taking citizenship of a country is a matter of a personal choice. Many people are taking the same in various parts of the world. But we trust that his holiness Karmapa will return back.” said Dr. Sangay according to TOI adding that his government believes that move of Karmapa is not going to dent the issue of Tibet and struggle by Tibetans.

Alex

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Thank you, Rowntree for sharing the interesting information regarding Sharma Rinpoche. It seems like anyone afraid to speak the truth and not intimidated by His Holiness's power will eventually get into trouble with the CTA. CTA has been ruling over Tibet with their modus operandi of eliminating whoever that is a possible threat to their power. Many high lamas who are innocent were prosecuted and accused of crimes that they did not do.

This modus operandi of theirs has been going on for hundreds of years from the 5th Dalai Lama's time.  One famous example will be the murder of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen who was believed to be on par, if not superior to the 5th Dalai Lama in terms of fame and power. Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen was a close dharma brother of the 5th Dalai Lama, and they grew up together. Both of them were erudite masters, and many came to visit them to make offerings but Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen has more visitors than the 5th Dalai Lama.

That time, the 5th Dalai Lama had just set up his government which is Gaden Podrang. The 5th Dalai Lama's attendants were weary of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen's fame and power to surpass the 5th Dalai Lama. Hence, they wanted to get rid of him to eliminate the threat to the throne. Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen was murdered and all his possessions were confiscated. They even went to the extent of banning his incarnation line.

Tracy

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The CTA will not help in preserving the Kagyu lineage, they don't even preserve the Gelug lineage, why would they preserve the Kagyu lineage? They have not done much to preserve the precious Tibetan culture. They have been busy creating conflicts in the Tibetan community in order to weaken the people's power so no one will question their failure as a government.

The CTA has to understand that they should not take a side in the Karmapa issue. They are the government for all Tibetans, they should stay neutral in this case. Unfortunately, they did not. They want to groom the Karmapa as the successor to the Dalai Lama so they can continue to use the spiritual head to control the Tibetans and sell Dharma to the world.

In addition to the two Karmapa issue, the other famous controversy the CTA has created is the Dorje Shugden ban. Again, the ban is imposed so that people are distracted from the real reason the Free Tibet movement has failed after 60 years. The CTA is hopeless as a government, they don't improve the life of the Tibetans, they are not capable of fulfilling their promise to the Tibetans and they only bring sufferings to them.

Tenzin K

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It’s really unjustified for Dalai Lama to interference in the Karma Kagyu tradition deceived the sect. This is something the Dalai Lama would have known and could have chosen to honor. There is no tradition in Tibetan Buddhism that allows the Dalai Lama to spiritually override the Shamarpa or indeed any teacher or any head of the other Tibetan Buddhist schools.

In this case, I can only see from the political view where Dalai Lama is purposely recognized one for power control. In each sect. Dalai Lama will place his own people for his control.  Unfortunately Ogyen Trinley Dorje unable to continue with the control from CTA and would rather leave India for a better choice in terms of spiritual practice.

Alex

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It’s really unjustified for Dalai Lama to interference in the Karma Kagyu tradition deceived the sect. This is something the Dalai Lama would have known and could have chosen to honor. There is no tradition in Tibetan Buddhism that allows the Dalai Lama to spiritually override the Shamarpa or indeed any teacher or any head of the other Tibetan Buddhist schools.

In this case, I can only see from the political view where Dalai Lama is purposely recognized one for power control. In each sect. Dalai Lama will place his own people for his control.  Unfortunately Ogyen Trinley Dorje unable to continue with the control from CTA and would rather leave India for a better choice in terms of spiritual practice.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not even of his own sect, Gelug. Many people are unfamiliar with the system which leads to the public believing His Holiness is the head of all Tibetan Buddhism sects. This gives His Holiness the ability to interfere with other lineages such a Karma Kagyu. An example will be the recognition of the 17th Karmapa.

Traditionally, His Holiness has no say in the recognition of the 17th Karmapa because Karma Kagyus have their own leaders and they are not under His Holiness. However, due to ignorant and fame, the public accepts the Karmapa candidate that is chosen by His Holiness. This is how sneaky the Tibetan government is to exert control onto the other sects.

The result of having 2 Karmapa candidates is the splitting of Karma Kagyu sect with disharmony and conflicts. The only party that will be benefitted from this is the Tibetan government as they will be able to rule over them easily.

Tenzin K

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Dalai Lama never in the Karma Kagyu tradition to choose any of the Karmapa or Sharmapa but breaking the tradition to do so. Since the Dalai Lama has already chosen his candidate why not go all the way to announce the real Karmapa. Let the people have a peace of mind and follow the real one all the way. Don’t let the fake one create heavier negative karma by leading the rest to the lower realm. Everyone respect Dalai Lama and his words now are very important and crucial to determine the faith of Karma Kagyu lineage now.