Author Topic: Torture in Paradise  (Read 6940 times)

WisdomBeing

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Torture in Paradise
« on: January 28, 2014, 07:43:34 AM »
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." Famous words according to The Right Honorable Lord Acton, John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton.

There is no check and balance in the CTA as the Dalai Lama held absolute power, not just as the political head but the spiritual head also. To question him would be to question a Buddha and needless to say not many did, because the fate that would befall them was not something one would expect from a Buddha.

"Sharpened bamboos were driven under the finger-nails, a punishment introduced into Tibet by the Manchus. Numerous floggings were inflicted with rods of willow on the bared back and buttocks, each of a hundred lashes or more....

The Tibetan criminal code is drastic. In addition to fines and imprisonment, floggings are frequent, not only of people after they have been convicted of an offence, but also of accused persons, and indeed witnesses, during the course of the trial. For serious offences, use is made of the pillory as well as of the cangue, which latter is a heavy square wooden board round the neck. Iron fetters are fastened on the legs of murderers and inveterate burglars. For very serious or repeated offences, such as murder, violent robbery, repeated thefts, or serious forgery, the hand may be cut off at the wrist, the nose sliced off, or even the eyes gouged out, the last more likely for some heinous political crime. In former days those convicted of murder were put into a leather sack, which was sewn up and thrown into a river.....

The Dalai Lama was indeed an absolute dictator; more so as regards his own country than Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini in theirs."

The above was extracted from "Portrait of a Dalai Lama", where Sir Charles Bell described punishment ordered by the 13th Dalai Lama.

In “Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth,” Michael Parenti quotes a western Buddhist practitioner saying old Tibet was, “much more like Europe during the religious wars of the Counterreformation.” Of the examples Parenti provides, the fifth Dalai Lama” in 1660 crushed a rebellion by “the Kagyu sect, directing the Mongol army to obliterate the male and female lines, even the offspring ‘like eggs smashed against rocks...in short, annihilate any traces of them, even their names.’” Until 1959, Tibetan society had a huge chasm of haves and havenots, where rich landlords and lamas controlled vast amounts of wealth and land, contrasting the common Tibetan population who were mainly serfs and slaves."

Parenti also brings up evidence of torture: “In 1959, Anna Louise Strong visited an exhibition of torture equipment used by Tibetan overlords.” Among the items were, “instruments to cut off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, breaking off hands and hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips and special implements for disemboweling." There were “photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and of a woman who was raped, then had her nose sliced away.”

The “justification” of conditions in old Tibet was based on the myth of karma: “The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives, thus having to accept their present existence as karmic atonement.”

So can any kind of infliction of pain on another be called simply the actions of karma? I am sure many people think that the oppression on Dorje Shugden practitioners is simply a manifestation of their karma.  I beg to disagree.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

fruven

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 11:15:19 AM »
It sounds like that they're the karma police. They are 'responsible' for handling the 'punishment' of one's karma. Well they have it all wrong. This same actions of torturing others are also done by serial killers, kidnappers and murderers. I do that think the same actions with low motivations they are not very different from the same group of people who are labeled as psychotic or problem in their minds in modern terms.

Why not put Buddha teachings to practice and place these so called offenders of law in re-education camp. One very effective method, meditation, has even find a place in prisons. Is the Buddha's teachings so ineffective that one would need to resort to violence to punish this people? It is a disgrace and look down on Buddha advise and also refuge vows not harming others.

sandra

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 11:46:47 AM »
To me, karma is not something man made. Karma is not something decide by you or me. Karma is something naturally happen and can not be avoided. Basically we don't do something very painful to others and said that this is your karma. So is very ridiculous to say that the oppression on the Dorje Shudgen practitioners is their manifest ion of karma. The action of hurting Dorje Shudgen practitioners purposely is not karma. In fact they are creating bad karma for themselves.

dsiluvu

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 10:37:20 AM »
Well if they can justify that torturing and harming others as "karma" then it's justifiable that they lost Tibet and it's because of their "karma" too! Perhaps from all these kinds of actions of harming others in the past?

I'm also finding it very hard to logically understand how someone who is revered as Chenrezig put up with such actions and up till this day create fractions amongst it's people. Seems like His Holiness Chenrezig playing the role of a demon or a demon playing the role of Chenrezig here? It is beyond my comprehension and honestly when you look at great leaders who sacrifice themselves for their people's freedom, like Ghandi and Mother Teresa, you don't find dirty secrets of harm hidden in the closet like sorry to say the Dalai Lama has. And is the world even aware of this? Instead people like Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King etc got down with their people and is consistently with their actions.

In His Holiness case, a part from escaping the arduous journey from Tibet to India and being welcomed, sheltered and given the status of a King, is still living like a King. He spread Dharma on one hand and on the other allows prisoners and criminals to be tortured in a manner of a communist leader? He splits up other sects like the Kagyu and now his own Gelug sect? What makes the Dalai Lama any different from the CCP leaders if there is this lack of consistency, truth, integrity? Why is no one questioning His Holiness on these hard questions?     

vajratruth

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 06:15:45 PM »

The “justification” of conditions in old Tibet was based on the myth of karma: “The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives, thus having to accept their present existence as karmic atonement.”


How ironic that the land ruled by the emanation of Chenrezig should conveniently take the view that Tibetans should quietly accept their karma of oppression as slaves/serfs. The Buddha of Compassion's supposed reason of being was and still is, to assist sufferers of their karma a way out of their suffering, not to reinforce their suffering.  The Dharma which Chenrezig embodies teaches that with faith, correct aspiration, and the proper attitude, a person can not only transmute his own her own suffering but also obtain liberation from all suffering in one lifetime. The emphasis of the Dharma has always been to transcend one's condition instead to to accept and solidify one's condition.

That the rulers of old Tibet including the Dalai Lamas should justify their tyranny of their own people just go to show how corrupt the rulers of Tibet have been, and how damaging they have been to the Dharma. It should therefore not come as a surprise that the rulers lost country and while the Tibetan people may one day yet return to their homeland, the rulers of old Tibet will never again have such hold over their own people.

What we see today with the Shugden ban is similar in character to the trickery of the olden Tibetan rulers which is the manipulation of the pure Dharma to shackle the people to do their bidding. How strange that the instrument by which the Buddha intended to liberate the people from their ignorance should be used as leverage on their ignorance.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 08:44:34 AM »
My issue is that oppression can always be justified if the oppressor can be seen to do no wrong. In this case, evident human torture is recorded and indisputable yet it is justifiable. Like the oppression on Dorje Shugden practitioners - it is justified and advocated by the Dalai Lama, yet nobody dares to call him out on it when the ban is illogical and untenable. Just because he is said to be a living Buddha. Something is rotten in the state(less) Tibet...
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

icy

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2014, 11:09:03 AM »
My issue is that oppression can always be justified if the oppressor can be seen to do no wrong. In this case, evident human torture is recorded and indisputable yet it is justifiable. Like the oppression on Dorje Shugden practitioners - it is justified and advocated by the Dalai Lama, yet nobody dares to call him out on it when the ban is illogical and untenable. Just because he is said to be a living Buddha. Something is rotten in the state(less) Tibet...

WisdomBeing, surely you have heard about theocratic old Tibet transferred to stateless Tibet in this modern age.  Nothing has changed since.  The issue has become muddled up with politics and religion.  Dorje Shugden is made a scrape goat for their failure to gain independence of their homeland. 

However, there is still a slight hope with Tibetan monks from Serpom and activists of NAGBA now coming out in the open having dialogues on the issue and exposing the misdoings of CTA.  Surely something positive will result from these actions.

Big Uncle

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2014, 04:28:03 PM »
Well, I have never heard karma as being used to justify the injustices of the Dorje Shugden ban. I think that it is quite lame of someone who would try to say that. I think the old punishments were indeed barbaric by today's standard but it is really the norm for many old world cultures from Europe to China.

The justifications for sentences were based on the severity of the crimes committed and I have never read that the harsh conditions and criminal sentences were explained off as a sort of karmic retribution. However, those who lived a hard life like prisoners and such are taught to do 'extra practices' in order to purify their karma (of a life lived in negativity) in order to gain a better afterlife. I think it is a pretty good philosophy to encourage virtue and spiritual practice. I think this is crucial for such individuals because they had lived a life of little virtue.

Matibhadra

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 05:09:30 AM »
Quote
I think the old punishments were indeed barbaric by today's standard but it is really the norm for many old world cultures from Europe to China.

Just research a bit about the excruciating agony of the ongoing executions with pentobarbital and electrocution in American for-profit prisons, and you will see that such barbaric punishments are no less the norm by today's supposedly civilized standard in ”new world” cultures, from Texas to Ohio, from Florida to Oklahoma.

On the other hand, Buddha's standard of non-violence is quite old, at least 2500 years, whether or not it was culturally accepted or prevalent anywhere. In the theocratic Tibet surely it was not.

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The justifications for sentences were based on the severity of the crimes committed.

For instance, when someone had his eyes plucked, or had sharp thorns inserted below his nails, or was skinned alive in a bridge, all by order of the 13th ”dalai”, based on the ”severity” of ”crimes” such as carrying a charm inside his boots, which was interpreted as ”black magic” against the evil 13th.

It sounds rather naive to take such supposed “crimes”, and not the frantic greed for power of a tyrant and his minions, as the actual basis for such brutal sentences.

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I think this is crucial for such individuals because they had lived a life of little virtue.

Then not blindly submitting to some brutal theocrat and his obnoxious regime according to you is ”a life of little virtue”, is it?

Rihanna

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 04:58:26 AM »
(So can any kind of infliction of pain on another be called simply the actions of karma? I am sure many people think that the oppression on Dorje Shugden practitioners is simply a manifestation of their karma.  I beg to disagree.)

Yes Kate Walker, I beg to disagree too. I do not see this as a manifestation of Dorje Shugden practitioners karma but rather lack of merits from the side of CTA. When one does not have merits, and presented with the Truth, one will not be able to comprehend the preciousness of it. It is like pretas being offered fresh delicious food and they view it is as faeces. This is where CTA stands.

Matibhadra

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Re: Torture in Paradise
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 10:43:56 AM »
Quote
So can any kind of infliction of pain on another be called simply the actions of karma? I am sure many people think that the oppression on Dorje Shugden practitioners is simply a manifestation of their karma.  I beg to disagree.

According to our teacher the Buddha there is no experience without a cause, which is the action producing it. Je Tsongkhapa also very much emphasized the infallibility of cause and effect.

Therefore, if someone experiences some harm, then surely this was caused by one's own actions of the past. In the same way, whoever inflicts a harm will experience the results of such actions.

There is no reason why this should be different with Dorje Shugden practitioners, who are harmed by the evil dalai and his minions, and with the evil dalai and his minions, who harm Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Now, the teaching of the Buddha is about the cessation of suffering, which is achieved through the destruction of its causes, such as deluded actions, and ultimately ignorance.

Therefore, if Dorje Shugden practitioners want to get rid of the harm imposed on them by the evil dalai, they need to stop sanctifying evil, and stop promoting evildoers, such as the evil dalai, as models of virtue.

For instance, when many Westerners stopped sanctifying the evil Catholic Church and its evil agents as the source and model of virtue, they got rid of the oppression and harm they were subject to throughout the middle ages.