Author Topic: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.  (Read 12007 times)

vajratruth

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The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« on: December 15, 2012, 05:19:34 PM »
Dorje Shugden's Accuser:

In opposing Dorje Shugden, one of the reasons the Dalai Lama has given is that the practice of Dorje Shugden upsets Pehar, a fierce but supposedly subdued Mongolian spirit that manifests through the Nechung oracle. The Dalai Lama is said to have had a dream in which Pehar had fought with Dorje Shugden. On a few occasions, Pehar had accused that Dorje Shugden was undermining the Dalai Lama’s seat and would deliver Tibet to the Chinese. Pehar’s accusations against Dorje Shugden was well served by a young and beautiful female medium called Tsering Chenma, whom the Dalai Lama regarded so highly that he listens to her advice (even though she has been proven inaccurate many times) and she was even allowed to live in the Dalai Lama’s palace. On one occasion during the preparation for a Kalachakra initiation, the oracle Tsering Chenma [ see pic below] had warned that 30 Shugden supports were going to attack the Dalai Lama whereupon an intense search was done but no weapons were found and it appeared, there weren’t even any Shugdenpas present. Unlike Pehar, Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being and the emanation of Buddha Manjushri, and yet the Dalai prefers to take the advice of a spirit that was once a bitter enemy of Tibet.

I searched the web for information about Pehar because I thought it is useful to see who the accuser of Dorje Shugden is, and the following describes the spirit best:

Pehar's Origins:

"Pehar’s original home lay in the north of Tibet, which the legendary Tibetan hero, Gesar of Ling described as the “devil’s country”. In earlier times pehar reigned as war god of the Hor Mongols. According to the sagas, this wild tribe was counted among the bitterest opponents of the pre-Buddhist Tibetans and their national hero, Gesar of Ling.
 
Old documents from Tunhuang describe the Hor as “flesh-eating red demons”. Their martial king had laid waste to the Land of Snows and stolen its queen, the wife of Gesar of Ling. After terrible battles the Tibetan national hero defeated the rapacious Hors, and won their commitment and that of their chief god, Pehar, with an eternal oath of loyalty. Over the centuries the term Hor was then used to refer to various Mongolian tribes, including those of Genghis Khan. Hence, Pehar(the principal oracle god of the Dalai Lama) was originally a bitter arch-enemy of the Tibetans.
 
Where Gesar had rendered the Mongol god harmless, it was the Padmasambhava who first succeeded in actually putting Pehar to work. The saga tells how Guru Rinpoche pressed a vajra upon the barbaric god’s head and thus magically mastered him. After this act, Pehar was able to be incorporated into the Buddhist pantheon as a servant. For seven hundred years his chief residence was the founding monastery Samye, by the construction of which he had to assist as a “forced laborer”. About 900 years later the 5th Dalai Lama moved Pehar (i.e. his symbol) to Nechung in the vicinity of the Drepung monastery and made the former war god of the Hor, the state oracle of Tibet. Since, after his “Buddhization”, he did not want to be reminded of his former defeat (by the national hero, Gesar), not a single verse from the Gesar epic was allowed to be cited in the Drepung monastery or at any other location where he had stayed.
 
The question soon arises as to why of all gods Pehar, the former ferocious and cruel opponent of the Land of Snows, was given the delicate office of being a supernatural governmental advisor to the Tibetan “god-king”. Surely this would have sooner been the entitlement of a Bodhisattva like Avalokiteshvara or a national hero like Gesar of Ling.
 
With this question too, the key is to be sought in the “political theology” of the 5th Dalai Lama. We may recall that both the conferring of the title of Dalai Lama and the establishment of the hierarch’s secular power were the actions of the Mongolians and not of the Tibetan people. In contrast, as we have reported, in the 17th century the national forces of the country were actually gathered under the kings of Tsang and around the throne of the Karmapa (the leader of the “red” Kagyupa sect). Thus, it does not take much fantasy to be able to sketch out why Pehar was chosen as the advisor of the Gelugpa state (then represented by the Fifth Dalai Lama). It was expected of the former Mongolian god and opponent of Tibet that he tame the recalcitrant Tibetans (who supported the Karmapa). In this Pehar’s interest and the 5th Dalai Lama’s interests coincided. In addition, the 5th Dalai Lama himself was a descendant of an aristocratic family which traced its lineage back to the Hor Mongols. Pehar, the later state oracle, is thus a foreign deity imposed upon the Tibetan people.

Pehar's Warning For Vengeance:
 
It is true that the oracle god has sworn an oath of loyalty, but it is — in the lamas’ opinion — by no means ruled out that he may one day break this and unleash his full vengeance upon the Tibetans who defeated him in times gone by. He has in his own words explained to Padmasambhava what will then happen. He will destroy the houses and the fields. The children of the Land of Snows will have to endure famine and will be driven insane. The fruit of the and will be destroyed by hail and swarms of insects. The strong will be carried off and only the weak shall survive. Wars shall devastate the roof of the world. Pehar himself will interrupt the meditations of the lamas, rob their spells of their magic power, and force them to commit suicide. Brothers will rape their sisters. He will make the wisdom consorts (the mudras) of the tantra masters bad and heretical, yes, transform them into enemies of the teaching who emigrate to the lands of the unbelievers. But first he shall copulate with them. “I,” Pehar proclaims, “the lord of the temples, the stupas and scriptures, I shall possess the fair bodies of all virgins” (source: Sierksma, 1966, p. 165).

Pehar has been proven to be wrong on quite a number of occasions including, including his advice on the escape route to be taken by the Dalai Lama. Fortunately, the Dalai Lama took the advice of Dorje Shugden and safely made his way out to India. However, it is also said that Pehar is working hand in hand with Dorje Shugden to spread the Dharma and it was him who made Duldzin Drapa swear to arise as the uncommon protector




vajralight

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 09:28:18 PM »
"Pehar’s accusations against Dorje Shugden was well served by a young and beautiful female medium called Tsering Chenma, whom the Dalai Lama regarded so highly that he listens to her advice (even though she has been proven inaccurate many times) and she was even allowed to live in the Dalai Lama’s palace."

See the photo below the article...that's the so-called dakini Kandro-la that Lama Zopa relies on !


Vajra

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 08:09:12 AM »
This is getting rather confusing.. Why would His Holiness depend on spirits to forecast future if knowing that he is nothing but the great Avalokiteshvara?  Again, His Holiness would consult Nechung, and now a new deity that we just learned about - Pehar.   But during the most crucial time he would rather listen and take Dorje Shugden's advice?  Again it is Dorje Shugden whom he is putting a ban on... confused confused...

Ensapa

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 01:35:31 PM »
This part is rather worrying:

Quote
It is true that the oracle god has sworn an oath of loyalty, but it is — in the lamas’ opinion — by no means ruled out that he may one day break this and unleash his full vengeance upon the Tibetans who defeated him in times gone by. He has in his own words explained to Padmasambhava what will then happen. He will destroy the houses and the fields. The children of the Land of Snows will have to endure famine and will be driven insane. The fruit of the and will be destroyed by hail and swarms of insects. The strong will be carried off and only the weak shall survive. Wars shall devastate the roof of the world. Pehar himself will interrupt the meditations of the lamas, rob their spells of their magic power, and force them to commit suicide. Brothers will rape their sisters. He will make the wisdom consorts (the mudras) of the tantra masters bad and heretical, yes, transform them into enemies of the teaching who emigrate to the lands of the unbelievers. But first he shall copulate with them. “I,” Pehar proclaims, “the lord of the temples, the stupas and scriptures, I shall possess the fair bodies of all virgins” (source: Sierksma, 1966, p. 165).

If you read this prophecy, some of it is true: The strong will be carried off and only the weak shall survive does that not describe the mass exodus in Tibet? Pehar himself will interrupt the meditations of the lamas, rob their spells of their magic power, and force them to commit suicide. Self immolations of monks and nuns. He will make the wisdom consorts (the mudras) of the tantra masters bad and heretical, yes, transform them into enemies of the teaching who emigrate to the lands of the unbelievers. Sounds like...if this is true....

but in any case, I'm just hoping its just me who sees this.

dsiluvu

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 09:32:40 PM »
Interesting!

May I ask Vajratruth, if you don't mind, where is the source to which you obtained this info Vajratruth? It would be helpful to indicate so we can cross check to see if where it came from is reliable.

I am a little skeptical about this information because that would mean that this Pehar is basically stronger and more powerful than Guru Padmasambhava and all the highly attained Lamas rolled in as well? Hmmm a little bit far fetched unless He is "enlightened" like Dorje Shugden???

The Pehar you are referring to that is "working hand in hand with Dorje Shugden to spread the Dharma and it was him who made Duldzin Drapa swear to arise as the uncommon protector" is Nechung am I correct?? If so... I think the image you posted on the oracle Tsering Chenma would be incorrect, sorry.

None the less it was an interesting read and Yes what are these people doing relying on "spirits" and so what's the big deal with Dorhe Shugden then. A huge contradiction there from HHDL and CTA!!!

Ensapa

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 03:31:05 AM »
The most obvious question here is that why would HHDL rather depend on an unenlightened spirit for advise as compared to an enlightened one like Dorje Shugden, and even went to the extent of declaring him a spirit instead? Has the Dalai Lama been so misled that he has done such a thing? If he has then why is he not reaping the results of such actions? Perhaps there is more than what meets the eye? I personally would not trust nechung, but at the same time i dont understand why HHDL would trust nechung either, given his poor track record over the past few decades.

yontenjamyang

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 08:09:07 AM »
Quote
However, it is also said that Pehar is working hand in hand with Dorje Shugden to spread the Dharma and it was him who made Duldzin Drapa swear to arise as the uncommon protector/quote]

I would like to believe that this is the most important part and is evident that Dorje Shugden is originally triggered by Nechung/Pehar. I heard a Lama who said that Nechung is very near enlightenment. Lets hope that Nechung and Dorje Shugden is working together. Personally, I am confident.

vajratruth

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 06:02:12 PM »
Interesting!

May I ask Vajratruth, if you don't mind, where is the source to which you obtained this info Vajratruth? It would be helpful to indicate so we can cross check to see if where it came from is reliable.

I am a little skeptical about this information because that would mean that this Pehar is basically stronger and more powerful than Guru Padmasambhava and all the highly attained Lamas rolled in as well? Hmmm a little bit far fetched unless He is "enlightened" like Dorje Shugden???

The Pehar you are referring to that is "working hand in hand with Dorje Shugden to spread the Dharma and it was him who made Duldzin Drapa swear to arise as the uncommon protector" is Nechung am I correct?? If so... I think the image you posted on the oracle Tsering Chenma would be incorrect, sorry.

None the less it was an interesting read and Yes what are these people doing relying on "spirits" and so what's the big deal with Dorhe Shugden then. A huge contradiction there from HHDL and CTA!!!


The point I wanted to make is that Dorje Shugden is definitely NOT a spirit let alone an evil spirit. The description of Pehar that I made reference to was to drive home a point that even a powerful spirit such as Pehar can be subdued and made to swear an oath to serve the Dharma. If Dorje Shugden is a spirit as alleged, how come there is no historic account of his exploits at all other than baseless accusations, and how come he could not be subdued? There is only one explanation, that is Dorje Shugden is not as he has been accused but in fact a Buddha.

The danger of referring to the Protector as a mere spirit is that those who do not bother to investigate further, might just take the accusers' word for it and that would be very unfortunate.Pehar has even been touted as the king of gyalpos before he was subdued by Guru Rinpoche, and such is the potency of demon-subduing rituals that could have been applied to Dorje Shugden. If the king of demons can be tamed, why not a mere spirit from a small pond which Dorje shugden accusers claim he is from? 

Dsiluvu, there are many references and sources of research on Pehar. A good one which i sourced the information from is this: http://www.google.com.my/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pehar%20sierksma%2C%201966&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhimalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk%2Fcollections%2Fjournals%2Fret%2Fpdf%2Fret_19_01.pdf&ei=eQDPUNmhDIL4rQfg24DYDQ&usg=AFQjCNFUjkxAPFEOLlhiaS2XZHwGUhMa8g&sig2=W-VWhrc86W7g4O9C5GGsFg

THe most worrisone part, is that this and many other sources confirm that the Tibetan does not make decisions without referring to spirits and oracles. Who is running the CTA anyway?

Ensapa

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 08:17:22 AM »
Quote
The danger of referring to the Protector as a mere spirit is that those who do not bother to investigate further, might just take the accusers' word for it and that would be very unfortunate.Pehar has even been touted as the king of gyalpos before he was subdued by Guru Rinpoche, and such is the potency of demon-subduing rituals that could have been applied to Dorje Shugden. If the king of demons can be tamed, why not a mere spirit from a small pond which Dorje shugden accusers claim he is from?

The main danger that can arise from this is confusion and how people can get 'lost' on their spiritual journey and take heed of something that they should not and view things the wrong way. There is now somewhat of a personality cult around the Dalai Lama due to this ban and also a few other factors. People get misled and they would also think that if they obtain and practice teachings from as many traditions as possible, it would make them nonsectarian and it would be alright. That will not be the case as they will only end up even more confused at the end.

DharmaSpace

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 03:06:45 PM »
Soon the truth will be out, the Dalai Lama in this life has made enemies of one of the most powerful nation in the world, and from the looks of it this enmity there is no reversal or turning back at all. The Dalai Lama clearly offered and olive branch to the Chinese during the Olympics but the Chinese have not reciprocated in kind. There were no demonstrations to put the Chinese to shame during the Olympics that the Dalai Lama could have asked from Tibetans and his followers. 

So I would assume when the curtain falls from this illusory play - the Dorje Shugden ban, the Dalai Lama because he knows he will always be vilified by the Chinese would do actions that show him to be less Buddhist than he really is. By relying on oracles of unenlightened deities and to give so much access to the Dalai Lama is one such ruse he has employed. But is the Chinese averse to Trijang Dorje Chang and Pabongka Dorjechang absolutely not so by the Dalai Lama affecting this ban he makes himself look like a demon and at the same time he is making heroes out of Dorje Shugden lamas all over the world who have to fight the ban.

Ensapa

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 04:23:53 AM »
Soon the truth will be out, the Dalai Lama in this life has made enemies of one of the most powerful nation in the world, and from the looks of it this enmity there is no reversal or turning back at all. The Dalai Lama clearly offered and olive branch to the Chinese during the Olympics but the Chinese have not reciprocated in kind. There were no demonstrations to put the Chinese to shame during the Olympics that the Dalai Lama could have asked from Tibetans and his followers. 

So I would assume when the curtain falls from this illusory play - the Dorje Shugden ban, the Dalai Lama because he knows he will always be vilified by the Chinese would do actions that show him to be less Buddhist than he really is. By relying on oracles of unenlightened deities and to give so much access to the Dalai Lama is one such ruse he has employed. But is the Chinese averse to Trijang Dorje Chang and Pabongka Dorjechang absolutely not so by the Dalai Lama affecting this ban he makes himself look like a demon and at the same time he is making heroes out of Dorje Shugden lamas all over the world who have to fight the ban.

The reason why China did not accept the Dalai Lama's olive branch is because they know that the CTA is a hypocrite. HHDL says  he wants autonomy but CTA wants independence and also the Tibetans' hate against the Chinese cannot be denied in any case. With these factors, how is it that China can trust HHDL and the CTA that they really want a dialogue and that they are sincere about it? What is even worse now is that CTA has been caught red handed for inciting the self immolations although they keep denying it but everyone else knows that they are inciting it (and the state controlled western media will always be sympathetic about the self immolations because the US is hoping to sow discord into China with the Tibetan issue) so I doubt China would want to engage in anything about CTA unless CTA cleans up their act.

Gabby Potter

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Re: The spirit the Dalai Lama depends on.
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 08:19:23 AM »
Why are these spirits are allowed to be worshiped by the people even His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Lord Dorje Shugden who's an enlightenment Buddha isn't? It's contradicting isn't it? Although it's contradicting each other, but I believe that HH has His reasons behind these. We just have to have faith.