Author Topic: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa  (Read 83129 times)

Vajraprotector

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2012, 06:22:56 PM »
I mean, the CTA themselves are not interested in the Tibetan cause. they prefer to just sit aside and revel in their past glories rather than actually work hard to make it happen. They dont make an effort to talk to China, neither do they actually try to appease China in any way. They're just making things harder for themselves and others in every way and not towards their goals.

Why is it that the CTA seems to go against the goals? wouldnt it be smarter to appease the enemy rather than angering them further so that they will cooperate and understand? Has years of Buddhist practice done nothing for the Tibetan people and the CTA? It does seem like it. No matter how or what has been said, the CTA is still a bad example for Buddhists due to their actions.

How many more people will die due to self immolations and also how many more will need to suffer needlessly just because they happen to be too close to the self immolator? The CTA, by now, should really speak up and discourage openly this practice instead of encouraging it in a subtle way. Eventually people will see through and they will not support CTA any longer.

I think it is difficult and perhaps too late at this point. Like what you said, there is lack of unity, some still have faith in the Dalai Lama's Middle Way approach, some are not willing to follow this direction any further, evident in the large-scale public protests in 2008.

Also, if you want CTA to take responsibility, it is rather difficult. In a thread that you commented on (Dalai Lama's Envoys in Talks With Beijing Resign), the two envoys who represented the Dalai Lama in failed talks with China on Tibet over the past decade have resigned "to express their frustration over Beijing's unwillingness to consider any autonomy for the Himalayan region".

First of all, I am not impressed with the reason behind the resignation. This is what the envoys wrote in their resignation letter.
 “Given the deteriorating situation inside Tibet since 2008 leading to the increasing cases of self-immolation by Tibetans, we are compelled to submit our resignations.”

Because they are unable to (or did not want to) control the deteriorating situation, they quit. Whilst there is an increasing cases of self-immolation, what they do was not find a way to relieve the sufferings of the frustrated Tibetans, but to stop their own suffering and guilt by quitting, with a glimpse of hope that it will affect China. That's the example of CTA for you.  Yes, perhaps it is very tiring after 9 rounds of negotiation and after so many years, or perhaps they (CTA) too are tired of themselves?

Secondly, I think China cannot be bothered with 2 envoys quitting. I think resignation will have no effect nor influence China in any way, it will just further demotivate the Tibetans-in-exile in their quest for autonomy. 

Also, China is not afraid of CTA, it is the Dalai Lama's global influence that China is afraid of. The Tibetans were highly dependent on His Holiness for this, and now His Holiness has stepped down from all these secular political affairs, hence CTA's influence is slowly diminishing. 

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2012, 12:03:38 PM »
I found this interesting article about a person's opinion on a Tibetan nun's self immolation. CTA should really take note.

Quote
Self Immolation – such a waste of life. Dozens of Tibetans burned themselves to death each year, as they have for such a long time, and where did it get them? Nowhere. Granted, unlike Muslim suicide bombers, Tibetan self immolations are aimed at killing one person only – the protester him/herself. Muslims always try to take as many innocent lives with them as possible, such is the religion of peace, but this post is not about them.

So it’s another video of a Tibetan nun who set herself on fire. She died a painful and agonizing death and… nothing’s changed about the relationship between Tibet and China. The world has not stopped turning and not a single fuck was given that day. If anything, the Chinese government are laughing their asses off cause now there’s one more annoying Tibetal to deal with. They keep dying in flames by their own hand and so far, it has helped them to achieve a great deal of nothing. Now I’m not an expert, but perhaps a change of strategy would be in order?

http://www.bestgore.com/suicide/self-immolation-nun-tibet/

nobody gives a damm about self immolations these days so will CTA stop instigating them?

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2012, 12:30:25 PM »

I think it is difficult and perhaps too late at this point. Like what you said, there is lack of unity, some still have faith in the Dalai Lama's Middle Way approach, some are not willing to follow this direction any further, evident in the large-scale public protests in 2008.

Also, if you want CTA to take responsibility, it is rather difficult. In a thread that you commented on (Dalai Lama's Envoys in Talks With Beijing Resign), the two envoys who represented the Dalai Lama in failed talks with China on Tibet over the past decade have resigned "to express their frustration over Beijing's unwillingness to consider any autonomy for the Himalayan region".

First of all, I am not impressed with the reason behind the resignation. This is what the envoys wrote in their resignation letter.
 “Given the deteriorating situation inside Tibet since 2008 leading to the increasing cases of self-immolation by Tibetans, we are compelled to submit our resignations.”

Because they are unable to (or did not want to) control the deteriorating situation, they quit. Whilst there is an increasing cases of self-immolation, what they do was not find a way to relieve the sufferings of the frustrated Tibetans, but to stop their own suffering and guilt by quitting, with a glimpse of hope that it will affect China. That's the example of CTA for you.  Yes, perhaps it is very tiring after 9 rounds of negotiation and after so many years, or perhaps they (CTA) too are tired of themselves?

Secondly, I think China cannot be bothered with 2 envoys quitting. I think resignation will have no effect nor influence China in any way, it will just further demotivate the Tibetans-in-exile in their quest for autonomy. 

Also, China is not afraid of CTA, it is the Dalai Lama's global influence that China is afraid of. The Tibetans were highly dependent on His Holiness for this, and now His Holiness has stepped down from all these secular political affairs, hence CTA's influence is slowly diminishing.

The self immolations were directly incited and endorsed by the CTA, and they know it. It is not that the conditions in those areas deteriorate, but merely because the CTA decided that it would be fun to provoke them so that there will be more self immolations and that there will be more media attention and it would "destablize" china's rule, sadly, these are not happening in reality.

I agree with you that the officials quit not because of anything but because they are just afraid of suffering and frustration, and also that they foolishly think that China will pity them and pity their plight of quitting. I dont think so. It wont work on China at all no matter what they would like to think. Them quitting just means that nobody's doing anything directly for the cause.

What did all the protests, slander, self immolations and gossip achieved? It only pulls CTA further away from their goal of having a free or more autonomous Tibet, it actually provokes China more and makes China even more angry at them and makes them more and more reluctant to be in the talks with CTA to resolve the Tibet issue. So is this what the CTA wants?

the CTA should actually take a look at the actual situation instead of living within their own fantasies already. They have achieved nothing with their self immolations, protests and smear campaigns against China, and they will never achieve anything else at all if they keep continuing, unless as what TK had said, that they apologize to Dorje Shugden and confess their wrongdoings and repair their samaya. But that is not likely to happen.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2012, 06:36:12 PM »
The CTA should actually take a look at the actual situation instead of living within their own fantasies already. They have achieved nothing with their self immolations, protests and smear campaigns against China, and they will never achieve anything else at all if they keep continuing, unless as what TK had said, that they apologize to Dorje Shugden and confess their wrongdoings and repair their samaya. But that is not likely to happen.

Dear Ensapa,
Perhaps the most recent action by the Tibetans that will stir up or make the Chinese to be on their toes was not CTA, but rather His Holiness attending the solidarity rally.

The main aim of the rally was to urge member states of the European Union to organize high-level political discourse between the EU and China regarding greater autonomy for Tibet, the formation of an EU delegation to visit Tibetan areas and even appoint a European Union Special Coordinator for issues that deal with Tibet. But seriously, without His Holiness, I don’t think the rally will achieve much results nor gain international attention.

It is not that the rally that matters, but what matters was His Holiness attending the rally and meeting Austrian leaders.  In the course of His Holiness’ 9-day visit to Austria, there were numerous encounters between His Holiness the Dalai Lama and political and religious dignitaries, such as the Austrian chancellor Werner Faymann and Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, and also the Austrian vice-chancellor and Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Result check: Almost 28,000 visitors participated in the events in Klagenfurt, Salzburg and Vienna, and another 15.000 viewed the public talks and other events with His Holiness online via live-stream. This shows the great interest and acceptance H.H. the Dalai Lama enjoys in Austria. More than 200 volunteers supported the organization-team of five. The media took great interest in His Holiness’ visit. More than 330 accredited journalists from 17 nations – among them media representatives from USA, India, UK, France and Scandinavia – reported about the events with His Holiness in Austria.

Tell me, can CTA alone get any results even close to half of what His Holiness achieved? So what else can CTA do – yes, back to helping to instigate self immolations, protests and smear campaigns against China perhaps?

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2012, 02:04:26 PM »
And here is another sad news

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China: Tibetan Dies in Protest Fire
By ANDREW JACOBS
Published: June 15, 2012
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A Tibetan herder in China’s northwest Qinghai Province died Friday after setting himself on fire to protest government policies in the region, according to exile groups and Radio Free Asia. The herder, Tamdin Thar, thought to be in his early 60s, set himself on fire in Markethang, in the Huangnan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture, said the group Free Tibet. Since 2009, at least 39 Tibetans have set themselves on fire. Of those, 30 have died, according to the International Campaign for Tibet, an advocacy group in Washington. “If the human rights situation doesn’t improve, such tragic incidents will keep happening,” said Tsering Woeser, a Tibetan writer in Beijing. “Many Tibetans think the pain of self-immolation is nothing compared to the pain of living without religious freedom.”

I like how Tsering Woeser puts it that China is not giving Tibet religious freedom when they allow temples to be opened and to function and they just dont allow them to worship the Dalai Lama. Everything else around that is more than allowed, including Dorje Shugden. Partial religious freedom is better than not being allowed to practice anything at all.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 04:21:46 AM »
I think the plight of Dorje Shugden practitioners who are ostracised in their own community and not being given access to facilities and rights are much stronger reasons to self-immolate  :(

However, we cannot discount the fact that these brave Tibetans have no way to make a strong point across but to choose self - immolation.

These are some facts about self-immolation so far:
•39 Tibetans have been confirmed to have self-immolated since February 27, 2009
•33 men, 6 women
•30 of the 39 are known to have died following their protest

•25 from Ngaba Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture, Sichuan province
•1 from Chamdo prefecture in the Tibet Autonomous Region
•5 from Tibetan Autonomous areas in Qinghai province

Out of these, 7 of the 39 were monks at Kirti monastery in Ngaba, 9 were former monks at Kirti monastery in Ngaba, 2 were nuns from Mame Dechen Chokorling nunnery in Ngaba

There is a map online that shows self-immolation by locality.

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 04:52:56 AM »

Dear Ensapa,
Perhaps the most recent action by the Tibetans that will stir up or make the Chinese to be on their toes was not CTA, but rather His Holiness attending the solidarity rally.

The main aim of the rally was to urge member states of the European Union to organize high-level political discourse between the EU and China regarding greater autonomy for Tibet, the formation of an EU delegation to visit Tibetan areas and even appoint a European Union Special Coordinator for issues that deal with Tibet. But seriously, without His Holiness, I don’t think the rally will achieve much results nor gain international attention.

It is not that the rally that matters, but what matters was His Holiness attending the rally and meeting Austrian leaders.  In the course of His Holiness’ 9-day visit to Austria, there were numerous encounters between His Holiness the Dalai Lama and political and religious dignitaries, such as the Austrian chancellor Werner Faymann and Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, and also the Austrian vice-chancellor and Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Result check: Almost 28,000 visitors participated in the events in Klagenfurt, Salzburg and Vienna, and another 15.000 viewed the public talks and other events with His Holiness online via live-stream. This shows the great interest and acceptance H.H. the Dalai Lama enjoys in Austria. More than 200 volunteers supported the organization-team of five. The media took great interest in His Holiness’ visit. More than 330 accredited journalists from 17 nations – among them media representatives from USA, India, UK, France and Scandinavia – reported about the events with His Holiness in Austria.

Tell me, can CTA alone get any results even close to half of what His Holiness achieved? So what else can CTA do – yes, back to helping to instigate self immolations, protests and smear campaigns against China perhaps?


In more ways than one, I do not think that His Holiness would encourage self immolation in any way. It goes against the basic Buddhist principles of realizing that this body is important to do spiritual practice. In his recent video, I believe he wants lobsang sanggay to speak up on self immolations, but also says that this is the result of China not listening to the Tibetans that they rule:

The Dalai Lama explains why he will not speak out on self-immolations


To me, the Dalai Lama is really serious about his retirement and he wants Lobsang Sanggay to take over his role in governing the secular areas of Tibet. But obviously, Lobsang Sanggay has not been doing anything. In the video, to me, HHDL has made it very clear that he does not wish to be involved in the political game with China anymore as he refused to make any statements on self immolation because China will just manipulate and twist that. Lobsang Sanggay is there to take this burden away from HHDL, but very clearly, he is not doing so and just hiding behind the scene :( how sad.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2012, 02:15:21 PM »
The Katri did speak up few weeks back, but with no action nor plans to do anything about it. Read the news below:


Sangay expresses concern over self-immolations in Tibet

Published: Sunday, Jun 3, 2012, 1:01 IST
Place: Shimla | Agency: PTI

Prime Minister of Tibetan government-in-exile Lobsang Sangay has expressed concerns over "unabated" self-immolations by Tibetans in Tibet.

"As the self-immolations continue unabated inside Tibet, we Tibetans-in-exile are ever more concerned about the policies of the Chinese government in Tibet," Sangay said at a special prayer service held to mourn them.

"We are holding this prayer service to pay homage to those who have sacrificed their lives for Tibet and console their family members," he said.

All the Kalons and officials of the Central Tibetan Administration as well as the heads of various governmental and non-governmental organisations attended the prayer service which was presided over by Kirti Rinpoche, the head lama of the Kirti Monastery.

Referring to the support extended by many world leaders and Nobel Laureates for the cause, Sangay urged Tibetans to continue to highlight the grim situation prevailing inside Tibet.

Since 2009, 38 Tibetans have set themselves on fire calling for more freedom and the return of the Dalai Lama to the land, Tibetan officials said.

Out of these, 29 died and the remaining nine were either seriously injured or their whereabouts are still unknown.

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2012, 03:40:18 AM »
The Katri did speak up few weeks back, but with no action nor plans to do anything about it. Read the news below:


Sangay expresses concern over self-immolations in Tibet

Published: Sunday, Jun 3, 2012, 1:01 IST
Place: Shimla | Agency: PTI

Prime Minister of Tibetan government-in-exile Lobsang Sangay has expressed concerns over "unabated" self-immolations by Tibetans in Tibet.

"As the self-immolations continue unabated inside Tibet, we Tibetans-in-exile are ever more concerned about the policies of the Chinese government in Tibet," Sangay said at a special prayer service held to mourn them.

"We are holding this prayer service to pay homage to those who have sacrificed their lives for Tibet and console their family members," he said.

All the Kalons and officials of the Central Tibetan Administration as well as the heads of various governmental and non-governmental organisations attended the prayer service which was presided over by Kirti Rinpoche, the head lama of the Kirti Monastery.

Referring to the support extended by many world leaders and Nobel Laureates for the cause, Sangay urged Tibetans to continue to highlight the grim situation prevailing inside Tibet.

Since 2009, 38 Tibetans have set themselves on fire calling for more freedom and the return of the Dalai Lama to the land, Tibetan officials said.

Out of these, 29 died and the remaining nine were either seriously injured or their whereabouts are still unknown.

This statement does not help at all. It only shows that he sees the Tibetans in tibet as nothing more than sheep and tools that will further their ambition to take over Tibet again. he should have just pleased them to stop self immolating themselves that their lives are more important and that they are just needlessly burning themselves up. That is the only type of logical and acceptable statement that any government can make in the wake of self immolations. What is funny is that LS acts as if the CTA has nothing to do with them when it is common knowledge that it was the CTA who somehow incited the self immolations. And even if they did not, those who immolated themselves obviously is allied with CTA so CTA can discourage or deter them from self immolating. Holding prayers and making statements that sound more like passive reinforcement for more self immolations rather than something that is sincere. CTA has been consistently being sneaky and spouting lies and distorting truths so its not a huge surprise if they were the ones behind the self immolations.

It is disappointing that even a Harvard education cannot educate LS about how to make the most basic statements that is expected of a prime minister in the light of such events and instead he makes the statement that encourages more...oh my god. how inhuman can he be? Blaming the deaths of the self immolators on China when you know very well that it was incited by the CTA...and the CTA can stop this by not inciting anymore.

samayakeeper

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2012, 07:15:05 AM »
I pray that such acts do not encourage lay people to have their voices heard by enacting them on the ban against the worship and practice of Dorje Shugden. It will be just a waste of precious human lives regardless the motive and especially carried out by ordinary people. Om Mani Padme Hung.

The ban had caused and is still causing hardship for many people who have been and are still affected by it. An ordinary person can be only pushed to a certain extent. No, I am saying that only realized beings should do it though. They do not need to for they have wisdom and compassion to weather out the storm.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 04:53:12 PM »
More about self-immolation from Lobsang Sangay, and why is it that self-immolation is also used to bring attention to himself? Anyone, any idea? :o

Prime Minister in exile denounces 'terrorist' label
June 26, 2012
Sydney Morning Herald

THE number of Tibetans living under Chinese rule who have staged the ultimate protest - burning themselves to death in public - is accelerating, with almost three times as many in the first six months of this year as in all of last year.

The Chinese call them "terrorists," but who might they be trying to terrorise, the eight who died in flames by their own hand last year and the 23 who have perished so far this year?

The young Harvard-educated lawyer who recently became the first elected leader of the Tibetan government in exile, Dr Lobsang Sangay, says: "The Chinese labelling is perplexing - because in all the self-immolations, not one has hurt anyone else," he told the Herald in an interview yesterday. "They don't threaten or harm anyone else, so they can't be terrorists."

Dr Sangay, on his first visit to Australia since taking over the Dalai Lama's political but not spiritual duties, makes the predictable point about the self-immolations as protest against Chinese repression, but also a startling concession.

"It means the situation is not bearable. It's not just that it's a desperate act, but also a political act. Peaceful protests, peaceful rallies are not allowed. The statements they leave behind consistently say they want freedom.

"The self-immolations are somehow an assertion of freedom - 'you can restrain my freedom but I can choose to die as I want.' ''

But Dr Sangay's surprising admission comes when he volunteers this fact: The intensifying outbreak of self-immolations "coincides with my election''.

"The final round of voting for my election was March 16. Ninety per cent have coincided with my taking over the leadership."

How to interpret this? Does it mean that Tibetans feel greater hopelessness in their cause since the withdrawal of the Dalai Lama from his political activism?

Or could it be an effort to apply greater pressure on Dr Sangay to take a harder stance against China? He made no claim and no denial but said in response to these question: "It's too early to tell."

At the very least, the self-immolators are not heeding the advice of their Kalon Tripa, or Prime Minister in exile: "We have repeatedly asked them not to take drastic actions, including self-immolation, but they continue to do so."

He applauded the call by the Foreign Affairs Minister, Bob Carr, for China to allow the Australian ambassador to visit Tibet to assess the situation, a call Beijing has ignored.

"It was bold and innovative of him - no one has done that formally, at least publicly. Why won't the Chinese let the ambassador go to Tibet? They are hiding something."

But Dr Sangay is dissatisfied Senator Carr is refusing to meet him on this visit: "Australia says it is a leading democracy and it believes in democracy and freedom of speech. That is the rhetoric, where is the action?"

He also believes Australia is in needless fear of China: "The Chinese are Confucian pragmatists. If they want to buy your coal and iron ore, they will whether you meet me or not. And if they find a cheaper source, they will buy it from there even if you do meet me."

From: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/prime-minister-in-exile-denounces-terrorist-label-20120625-20yn8.html

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 05:22:25 PM »
I think I'm gonna have fun with this statement of his which is filled with contempt.

More about self-immolation from Lobsang Sangay, and why is it that self-immolation is also used to bring attention to himself? Anyone, any idea? :o

Obviously, LS is the main guy behind the self immolations and the CTA is the one instigating them so that they are mentioned by the media, like some sort of has-been television star trying to get attention after she is long forgotten.

Prime Minister in exile denounces 'terrorist' label
June 26, 2012
Sydney Morning Herald

THE number of Tibetans living under Chinese rule who have staged the ultimate protest - burning themselves to death in public - is accelerating, with almost three times as many in the first six months of this year as in all of last year.

The Chinese call them "terrorists," but who might they be trying to terrorise, the eight who died in flames by their own hand last year and the 23 who have perished so far this year?
They're trying to harm China's reputation and also the stability of the region by undermining China's credibility in the form of self immolations.

The young Harvard-educated lawyer who recently became the first elected leader of the Tibetan government in exile, Dr Lobsang Sangay, says: "The Chinese labelling is perplexing - because in all the self-immolations, not one has hurt anyone else," he told the Herald in an interview yesterday. "They don't threaten or harm anyone else, so they can't be terrorists."
tell that to the monks of the monastery whenever one of their monks self immolated. Tell that to the families of the self immolation victims after they get brutally interrogated by the Chinese which I do not blame at all because they are just doing their duties to protect the interest of the country. Every country has the right to be rough against people who are perceived to be against the country and government from ancient times.

Dr Sangay, on his first visit to Australia since taking over the Dalai Lama's political but not spiritual duties, makes the predictable point about the self-immolations as protest against Chinese repression, but also a startling concession.

"It means the situation is not bearable. It's not just that it's a desperate act, but also a political act. Peaceful protests, peaceful rallies are not allowed. The statements they leave behind consistently say they want freedom.
There are so many ways of showing unsatisfactoriness of rule and it does not need to end with death as it causes more harm than good. You're just using this as an excuse and as material for your cause....the lives of people....how bloody. How do you sleep at night knowing that you needlessly sacrificed lives for your "cause?"

"The self-immolations are somehow an assertion of freedom - 'you can restrain my freedom but I can choose to die as I want.' ''
So...you're telling me that Tibetans are unable to follow the country's laws? So...does that not contradict the Buddha's advice?

But Dr Sangay's surprising admission comes when he volunteers this fact: The intensifying outbreak of self-immolations "coincides with my election''.
Because it came out of your party's funding?
"The final round of voting for my election was March 16. Ninety per cent have coincided with my taking over the leadership."

How to interpret this? Does it mean that Tibetans feel greater hopelessness in their cause since the withdrawal of the Dalai Lama from his political activism?
It just means that LS the mastermind/instigator/suggestor for people to self immolate. I dont think the tibetans know about the vietnamese monk who self immolated...unless someone who studied in Harvard told them.

Or could it be an effort to apply greater pressure on Dr Sangay to take a harder stance against China? He made no claim and no denial but said in response to these question: "It's too early to tell."

At the very least, the self-immolators are not heeding the advice of their Kalon Tripa, or Prime Minister in exile: "We have repeatedly asked them not to take drastic actions, including self-immolation, but they continue to do so."
Yeah but your statements for them to not self immolate has been consistently not serious and soft as compared to your statements against, i dont know....Dorje Shugden practitioners? So does that mean you dont really mean it when you say "Oh stop it! dont self immolate!"? Oh the hypocrisy.

He applauded the call by the Foreign Affairs Minister, Bob Carr, for China to allow the Australian ambassador to visit Tibet to assess the situation, a call Beijing has ignored.

"It was bold and innovative of him - no one has done that formally, at least publicly. Why won't the Chinese let the ambassador go to Tibet? They are hiding something."
Then why are you guys not answering questions about Dorje Shugden and the ban? Are you hidning something too?

But Dr Sangay is dissatisfied Senator Carr is refusing to meet him on this visit: "Australia says it is a leading democracy and it believes in democracy and freedom of speech. That is the rhetoric, where is the action?"
Ironically, CTA is anything but democratic. So why not have Australia probe the way your government runs and have a nice lil report on it?
He also believes Australia is in needless fear of China: "The Chinese are Confucian pragmatists. If they want to buy your coal and iron ore, they will whether you meet me or not. And if they find a cheaper source, they will buy it from there even if you do meet me."
Bzzzzzzzzzzt. The Harvard graduate made a boo boo. Confucius did not teach pragmatism. He taught the values that every human should hold. By the way, the Chinese has kind of abandoned his philosophy, at least the majority of the chinese and only a minority holds his philosophy these day. Get your facts right. You're no longer an undergraduate now, you're a prime minister.
From: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/prime-minister-in-exile-denounces-terrorist-label-20120625-20yn8.html


That kinda sums up my feelings about the entire thing. The statement itself is pretty generic and not really serious at all. It sounded very half hearted, as if lobsang sanggay does not care if the tibetans set fire to themselves...well perhaps they really dont care coz they do not show actions that they care all along. They couldnt be bothered if yet another tibetan burns themselves into human bacon. CTA will improve and they will get China's attention if they said something like self immolation victims are an embarrassment to the Dalai Lama and CTA and whoever who does it are traitors to the CTA because they are just making things worse instead of helping, because that is the truth. What does CTA get out of all the self immolations? they get attention from the media and they basically dont care about their citizens as long as they get media coverage.

It wont be long before the world realizes whats going on and CTA's downgrade to a mere society will be a reality soon!

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 06:02:34 AM »
This is the result of self immolations. It does not bring Tibet one step to freedom neither does it work for the benefit of the people. Will CTA please, please tell people to stop immolating themselves? It only brings more harm and more pain to everyone and probably, just more news to post on phayul.com and that's it. Is Tibet's freedom worth so many lives? Or rather, just an article worth a human life and the suffering of many others?

Quote

Ngawang Norphel, 22 and Tenzin Khedup, 24
DHARAMSHALA, June 26: Chinese authorities in eastern Tibet have arrested family members of Ngawang Norphel, including his wife, following his self-immolation protest last week.

According to reports, a day after Ngawang Norphel and Tenzin Khedup set themselves on fire in Zatoe town calling for Tibet’s independence and long life of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the former’s wife Dolma Dicki along with two other relatives were arrested.

“It is not clear on what charges the three were arrested and their whereabouts is not known,” Sonam Tsering, an exiled Tibetan said citing sources inside Tibet.

Ngawang Norphel, 22 and Tenzin Khedup, 24, set themselves ablaze in the afernoon of June 20. Both of them were carrying Tibetan national flags in their hands at the time of their self-immolation protest.

Tenzin Khedup sucummbed to his injuries while Ngawang Norphel is believed to be in a critical condition at a Chinese military hospital in Xining.

“The two monks who were sent from Zilkar Monastery to help him have been forbidden entry into the hospital,” the Central Tibetan Administration said in a relase. “They are now said to be at the hospital gate where soldiers stand guard.”

In a new footage immediately shot after their self-immolation protest, released by the CTA last week, Ngawang Norphel, severely burned, could be seen shouting, “What has happened to my Land of Snow?” and also enquiring for his “sworn brother” Tenzin Khedup.

Although under immense visible pain, Ngawang Norphel says that their sacrifice is for the sake of Tibet.

“We two “sworn brothers”, we won’t fail next time. [This is] for the sake of Tibet. We are in the land of snow. If we don’t have our freedom, cultural traditions and language, it would be extremely embarrassing for us,” Ngawang Norphel says.

In a note left behind by the two young Tibetans before taking their drastic action, they urged all Tibetans to be united in the fight for Tibet’s freedom and the return of the Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama from exile.

“People like us are unable to contribute anything toward Tibetan religion and culture, or contribute economically to help Tibetans,” Ngawang Norphel and Tenzin Khedup wrote. They said their actions "show love to the Tibetan people and loyalty to His Holiness the Dalai Lama."

Tenzin Khedup is from Tridu in Keygudo. His parents are Legdup and Kyizom. Ngawang Norphel is from Ngaba, the region which remains the nerve centre of the ongoing wave of self-immolations in Tibet.

Since Tapey’s self-immolation protest in 2009, 41 more Tibetans have burned themselves calling for freedom in Tibet and the return of the Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama from exile.

icy

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2012, 04:29:03 AM »
The Dalai Lama has said it is best for him “to remain neutral” on the issue of more than 40 Tibetans setting themselves on fire in the Tibetan areas of China over the past year, amid allegations by Beijing of a plot and concerns among some Tibetans about the spreading protests.

In his most detailed comments yet on the protests, which have brought fresh security restrictions across many Tibetan areas in recent months, the Dalai Lama, in an interview with The Hindu, described the self-immolations as “a very, very delicate political issue.”

“Now, the reality is that if I say something positive, then the Chinese immediately blame me,” he said. “If I say something negative, then the family members of those people feel very sad. They sacrificed their… life. It is not easy. So I do not want to create some kind of impression that this is wrong.”

In an appeal, some Tibetan writers and poets have called for the self-immolations to stop, arguing that Tibetans needed “to cherish life regardless of the magnitude of oppression.”

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolation, again, now in Lhasa
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2012, 10:05:43 AM »
The Dalai Lama has said it is best for him “to remain neutral” on the issue of more than 40 Tibetans setting themselves on fire in the Tibetan areas of China over the past year, amid allegations by Beijing of a plot and concerns among some Tibetans about the spreading protests.

In his most detailed comments yet on the protests, which have brought fresh security restrictions across many Tibetan areas in recent months, the Dalai Lama, in an interview with The Hindu, described the self-immolations as “a very, very delicate political issue.”

“Now, the reality is that if I say something positive, then the Chinese immediately blame me,” he said. “If I say something negative, then the family members of those people feel very sad. They sacrificed their… life. It is not easy. So I do not want to create some kind of impression that this is wrong.”

In an appeal, some Tibetan writers and poets have called for the self-immolations to stop, arguing that Tibetans needed “to cherish life regardless of the magnitude of oppression.”

Why would CTA care about a family's feelings as opposed to discouraging more Tibetans from self immolating. I find it weird that CTA is not speaking out enough to discourage self immolations and are not speaking up enough on the bad sides of self immolation. They scarified their life due to misinformation for a cause that is not even getting anywhere. Even the Tibetans from Tibet, the lamas that flow in and out Tibet are FULLY AWARE that CTA is inciting the self immolations. My dad who was driving one around last week told me that the Khenpo told him that originally, he was able to go to Tibet directly from India, but due to the self immolations, China has not approved his visa to Tibet, so he came to my country to go to Tibet from there. He told my dad that the CTA was behind it. Nobody respects the self immolators but the CTA...why? what is their agenda? free press?

Anyways, here's an update of the May self immolation survivor:

Quote
Dhargey succumbs to burn injuries: Reports
Phayul[Sunday, July 08, 2012 23:54]

A young exiled Tibetan during a candle light vigil in solidarity with Dhargey and Dorjee Tseten on May 27, 2012. (Phayul file photo)
DHARAMSHALA, July 8: Dhargey, the young Tibetan man who set himself on fire in Lhasa, Tibet’s capital on May 27, is feared to have succumbed to his injuries.

According to reports, Dhargey, 25, who set himself on fire in a twin self-immolation protest along with Dorjee Tseten, 19, in front of the historic Jokhang Temple passed away in a hospital in Lhasa on July 7.

US based Radio Free Asia in a report quoted a source in Lhasa as saying that Dhargey passed away on July 7 at 6.40 pm (local time).

The same source added that Dhargey was brought to a police hospital near Sera Monastery with 60 per cent burns immediately after his fiery protest.

Dorjee Tseten, who was working at a restaurant in Lhasa along with Dhargey, passed away at the site of their protest.

It was earlier reported that Dhargey’s father, Lodey, a native of Ngaba, eastern Tibet recently travelled to Lhasa to enquire about his son’s condition but was turned back.

“Lodey was not even able to confirm whether his son was still in Lhasa, much less find out anything about his condition,” the exile base of Kirti monastery in Dharamshala said in release last month.

Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay in his statement on the Dalai Lama’s 77th birthday said the ongoing wave of self-immolations in Tibet showed that the “Tibetan aspirations for freedom and dignity remains strong.”

Dr Sangay also called for a global solidarity vigil on August 8, coinciding with the completion of his one-year in office.

“This international vigil will remember those Tibetans who have given up their lives for Tibet and show solidarity with every Tibetan in Tibet who continues to suffer oppression under Chinese rule,” Katri said.

According to the Dharamshala based Central Tibetan Administration, 42 Tibetans have set themselves on fire from February 27, 2009 to June15, 2012 demanding freedom in Tibet and the return of the Dalai Lama from exile.

With reports of Dhargey’s death, 33 Tibetans have now passed away in their self-immolation protests. Six Tibetans have sustained serious injuries and are reportedly in critical conditions while the well-being and whereabouts of four Tibetan self-immolators still remain unknown.