Author Topic: Question Re. Oracles  (Read 10677 times)

iloveds

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Question Re. Oracles
« on: November 23, 2011, 08:29:51 AM »
As an oracle do they only take trance of one deity?

Is there a limit to the number they can take trance of?

Can any deity be chosen?

Klein

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2011, 07:57:34 AM »
Dear iloveds,

An oracle can take trance of several deities. I have not heard of a limit to the number they can take trance of. I have personally seen the oracle take trance of 3 to 4 deities, one after another.

Whether any deity can be chosen I believe, depends on their practice and decision of their Guru. Perhaps some one who knows better can clarify on this?

Galen

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2011, 03:42:32 PM »
Dear iloveds,

From my limited understanding, an oracle have to go through a strict regime of purification and conditioning of his/her body before they can become an oracle. And would have to be trained by a qualified guru. And the Oracle would have to keep their body pure and clean in order for deities to enter.

I have seen an oracle going into trance and was entered by different deities one after another. So it is not only limited to one deity. I have also heard that the guru can request the deity to enter the oracle if the guru wants. Therefore, the guru can choose which deity to enter the oracle.

iloveds

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 03:44:27 PM »
So would it be safe to say that an oracle is just a vessel.

What can go in is up to the Guru and only the Guru?

Dolce Vita

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2011, 04:35:03 PM »
I heard the protectors are to serve the Lamas. Thus, I suppose it is up to the Guru what can go in.

Mana

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 11:01:19 PM »
So would it be safe to say that an oracle is just a vessel.

What can go in is up to the Guru and only the Guru?

To further elaborate, it is also up to the Guru and the oracle's samaya whether the deity can or cannot enter the oracle. Here are some real stories I heard:

1. An oracle had been taking trance for some time in a monastery, but one day he criticized his Guru, and in the next trance session, he tried to take trance but nothing happened, no deity entered him. Then the oracle realized his mistake and formally apologized to his Guru, and he was able to take trance again after that.

2. A lay oracle was trained by a high lama to take trance, but as the trance became famous and sought after by many people, the oracle became greedy and used the trance to make money, the high lama was very furious at the negative action of the oracle and ordered the protector to stop entering the oracle. Since then, the oracle could not take any trance anymore no matter how hard he "tried".

Gypsy

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 02:09:29 AM »
From my limited understanding of oracle taking trance, they do not actually limit the numbers of deity who go in their body. It's their practice and also the decision of their guru. Before they became an oracle, like what it's been mentioned above, they have to go through a very strict regime that sort of clear their negative karma and keep the body/mind pure. I also heard that even oracle's translator has the same tough training as oracle himself. I've had experience with oracle and saw several deities entered the oracle one after another, it was amazing as we got blessed by the deities, i am so touched even until now.

DSFriend

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2012, 05:18:30 PM »
In vajrayana, we have a pantheon of deities to counter our delusions. Also, different deities manifests at different times and due to the different karma of beings.

What would be the reason for oracles to take trance of multiple deities? Could it be to benefit beings similar in reasons as stated above?

bambi

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 11:09:35 AM »
I've heard that oracles can take trance of a few deities at one time but it will be very tiring for the oracle when the trance is over. There are different deities because there are different questions that might need to be answered. And I am sure they can invoke the deity they prefer.

Positive Change

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Re: Question Re. Oracles
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 12:06:30 PM »
As an oracle do they only take trance of one deity?

Is there a limit to the number they can take trance of?

Can any deity be chosen?

I believe the exact number is dependent on the deity/deities in question, the oracle's "ability" to withstand the extreme physical pressures required while taking trance and certainly the Guru's guidance. The oracles are, after much purification and training, perfect vessels for deities but who enters, depends once again, solely on the Guru's discretion. This may not be so apparent of course as the Guru after all embodies humility.

Some deities are more wrathful than others.... take for example, when an oracle takes trance of Lord Setrap it is often quick as he is most wrathful and the energy required to sustain a being like that is massive. Even our King Dorje Shugden, depending on the form that is invited, is often rather wrathful... which is why in most cases when answers are presented to Our King through the oracle taking trance, Our King stays for only a short while, leaves and then sends his minister Lord Karche Marpo to answer the questions.

I have been very blessed and privileged to be able to witness this incredible phenomenon on a couple of occasions which cannot really be described in words. Even watching a video of it cannot compare to actually being in the presence of such divine energy, elaborate customs, ritual, flair and mysticism.