Author Topic: And the debate continues  (Read 11614 times)

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
And the debate continues
« on: April 05, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »
Hot on the news all these few weeks and we're still talking about What Life Will Be Like After the Dalai Lama. Lots of interesting pieces on the internet and newspapers about the Dalai Lama's decision to step down and renounce political power. Here's another:

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/03/28/dalai-lama-retirement-accepted-so-now-what-for-china-tibet/

Seems that what scares the Tib Govt and people most is that they don't have the Dalai Lama to fall back on - no one to push the responsibility to. Now, they have to take charge, of the good, the bad and the ugly. When all is said and done, the Dalai lama really stood by everything he said - the good, the bad and the ugly. He was willing to take the flak, the demonstrations and even law suits for the things that he said and did. Will the TGIE be able to do this? Not forgetting the fact that they are now faced with an ever-growing giant, Chiana.

Where will they stand now on decisions like Tibetan Independence and the Dorje Shugden issue when they don't have anyone to really fall back on? Do you think the reins will get tighter? Or will people finally have a chance a real democracy and freedoms?


Dalai Lama Retirement Accepted, So Now What?

The Dalai Lama’s proposal to retire from his political role — formally ending a 370-year-old tradition — has finally been accepted by the Tibetan parliament-in-exile after 10 days of emotional debate in the north Indian town of Dharamsala.

The queston now for his followers, and for China’s atheist leaders: What happens after he dies?

The Dalai Lama says he will resign from his political post in an effort to promote a free Tibet, saying the rule by leaders such as himself is now outdated. Video and image courtesy of Reuters.

The exiled parliament passed four unanimous resolutions Friday agreeing to constitutional changes that would allow the Dalai Lama to give up his role as head of the government-in-exile, which he established after fleeing his homeland in 1959. Under the changes, to be formalized in May, his political powers will be formally transferred to a new Prime Minister, known as the Kalon Tripa, who will take power after the final results of an election held last Sunday are announced in April.

The parliament-in-exile initially opposed his retirement, but the 1989 Nobel Peace laureate insisted it was necessary to establish a more democratic, and sustainable, system for leading the 150,000 Tibetans who live in exile and for pushing the non-violent campaign aimed at gaining greater autonomy for Tibet.

“If we have to remain in exile for several more decades, a time will inevitably come when I will no longer be able to provide leadership,” the Dalai Lama said in a message to the parliament. “Therefore, it is necessary that we establish a sound system of governance while I remain able and healthy.”

China has dismissed the Dalai Lama’s retirement as a “trick” designed to impress the international community. On Monday, the Chinese government marked “Serfs’ Emancipation Day” — the date when it dismissed the Dalai Lama as head of the Tibetan government in 1959.
Padma Choling, the Beijing-appointed head of the current Tibetan regional government, made a televised speech on Sunday in which he insisted the Dalai Lama’s efforts to revive the “reactionary rule of theocratic feudal serfdom” were doomed to fail.

In reality, both sides have reason to worry about the future of a region that Beijing says has been part of its territory since the 13th Century, but which the Dalai Lama says was de facto independent before Chinese Communist troops took control in 1951.

The Dalai Lama’s chief concern, according to people close to him, is that the Chinese government –- which sees him as a dangerous separatist and says it has the right to approve all lamas’ reincarnations — will try to appoint his successor after his death. He says he will continue to act as a spiritual leader, much as previous Dalai Lamas did before 1642, when the Fifth Dalai Lama was enthroned both spritual and political leader following Tibet’s unification under the Mongol prince Gushri Khan.

So far the 10-day parliament meeting has offered no further clues as to whether the current Dalai Lama’s own successor will be selected in the traditional manner, with senior lamas identifying a young boy as his re-incarnation after his death.

The Dalai Lama has previously suggested a range of options, including having a referendum among his followers to decide whether he should be reincarnated at all. He has also suggested appointing his own successor while he is still alive.

One option could be off the table, however.

The favorite to be the next Prime Minister, a senior fellow at Harvard Law School called Lobsang Sangay, had suggested that the Karmapa Lama, the third highest in the Tibetan Buddhist hierarchy, act as a “regent” to lead after the Dalai Lama’s death until his reincarnation is old enough to take over.

The constitutional changes agreed upon Friday entail the abolition of the regency, which traditionally handled Tibet’s government in the period between the death of one Dalai Lama and the completion of his successor’s education.

Bejing, meanwhile, is concerned that the Dalai Lama’s retirement undermines both its ability to appoint a credible successor and its criticism of his government-in-exile as an undemocratic relic of Tibet’s old theocracy.

Ironically, as Columbia University Tibetologist Robert Barnett has noted, those concerns mean the Chinese government is now pushing openly for the Dalai Lama to stick to the traditional succession model, even as it continues to denounce the system it says he represents.

The contradiction was on full display last week as a press conference with three local experts from the China Tibetology Research Center organized by the state-backed All-China Journalists’ Association.

Tsering Yangdzom, the only ethnic Tibetan among the experts, said the next Dalai Lama should be selected according to a religious tradition that she said dated back to the Sixth Dalai Lama, who reigned 1682-1706. The Sixth Dalai Lama is a significant reference in the succession debate as he was appointed by the Qing dynasty Emperor Kangxi, which the Chinese government maintains as a precedent.

The government-in-exile argues Emperor Kangxi only sent representatives to the Sixth Dalai Lama’s inauguration and was not involved in his selection.

Zhou Wei, another of the experts, rejected the Dalai Lama’s suggestions that he could appoint his own successor. “If he wants to win the hearts of the Tibetan people, he must respect traditions,” he said.

The third expert, Du Yongbin, said the Dalai Lama’s retirement plan showed that exile government’s prime minister had no real power until now and that therefore religious leader and his followers adhered to “the old theocratic way despite claimed efforts to transform their group into a secular and democratic one.”

Mr. Du went on to insist on three cardinal rules for the next Dalai Lama’s selection: observe historical precedent, respect religious requirements, and comply with the Chinese government’s “managing measures for the reincarnation of living Buddhas.”

DharmaDefender

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 05:05:01 PM »
Hot on the news all these few weeks and we're still talking about What Life Will Be Like After the Dalai Lama. Lots of interesting pieces on the internet and newspapers about the Dalai Lama's decision to step down and renounce political power. Here's another:

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/03/28/dalai-lama-retirement-accepted-so-now-what-for-china-tibet/

Seems that what scares the Tib Govt and people most is that they don't have the Dalai Lama to fall back on - no one to push the responsibility to. Now, they have to take charge, of the good, the bad and the ugly. When all is said and done, the Dalai lama really stood by everything he said - the good, the bad and the ugly. He was willing to take the flak, the demonstrations and even law suits for the things that he said and did. Will the TGIE be able to do this? Not forgetting the fact that they are now faced with an ever-growing giant, Chiana.

Where will they stand now on decisions like Tibetan Independence and the Dorje Shugden issue when they don't have anyone to really fall back on? Do you think the reins will get tighter? Or will people finally have a chance a real democracy and freedoms?


Dalai Lama Retirement Accepted, So Now What?

The Dalai Lama’s proposal to retire from his political role — formally ending a 370-year-old tradition — has finally been accepted by the Tibetan parliament-in-exile after 10 days of emotional debate in the north Indian town of Dharamsala.

The queston now for his followers, and for China’s atheist leaders: What happens after he dies?

The Dalai Lama says he will resign from his political post in an effort to promote a free Tibet, saying the rule by leaders such as himself is now outdated. Video and image courtesy of Reuters.

The exiled parliament passed four unanimous resolutions Friday agreeing to constitutional changes that would allow the Dalai Lama to give up his role as head of the government-in-exile, which he established after fleeing his homeland in 1959. Under the changes, to be formalized in May, his political powers will be formally transferred to a new Prime Minister, known as the Kalon Tripa, who will take power after the final results of an election held last Sunday are announced in April.

The parliament-in-exile initially opposed his retirement, but the 1989 Nobel Peace laureate insisted it was necessary to establish a more democratic, and sustainable, system for leading the 150,000 Tibetans who live in exile and for pushing the non-violent campaign aimed at gaining greater autonomy for Tibet.

“If we have to remain in exile for several more decades, a time will inevitably come when I will no longer be able to provide leadership,” the Dalai Lama said in a message to the parliament. “Therefore, it is necessary that we establish a sound system of governance while I remain able and healthy.”

China has dismissed the Dalai Lama’s retirement as a “trick” designed to impress the international community. On Monday, the Chinese government marked “Serfs’ Emancipation Day” — the date when it dismissed the Dalai Lama as head of the Tibetan government in 1959.
Padma Choling, the Beijing-appointed head of the current Tibetan regional government, made a televised speech on Sunday in which he insisted the Dalai Lama’s efforts to revive the “reactionary rule of theocratic feudal serfdom” were doomed to fail.

In reality, both sides have reason to worry about the future of a region that Beijing says has been part of its territory since the 13th Century, but which the Dalai Lama says was de facto independent before Chinese Communist troops took control in 1951.

The Dalai Lama’s chief concern, according to people close to him, is that the Chinese government –- which sees him as a dangerous separatist and says it has the right to approve all lamas’ reincarnations — will try to appoint his successor after his death. He says he will continue to act as a spiritual leader, much as previous Dalai Lamas did before 1642, when the Fifth Dalai Lama was enthroned both spritual and political leader following Tibet’s unification under the Mongol prince Gushri Khan.

So far the 10-day parliament meeting has offered no further clues as to whether the current Dalai Lama’s own successor will be selected in the traditional manner, with senior lamas identifying a young boy as his re-incarnation after his death.

The Dalai Lama has previously suggested a range of options, including having a referendum among his followers to decide whether he should be reincarnated at all. He has also suggested appointing his own successor while he is still alive.

One option could be off the table, however.

The favorite to be the next Prime Minister, a senior fellow at Harvard Law School called Lobsang Sangay, had suggested that the Karmapa Lama, the third highest in the Tibetan Buddhist hierarchy, act as a “regent” to lead after the Dalai Lama’s death until his reincarnation is old enough to take over.

The constitutional changes agreed upon Friday entail the abolition of the regency, which traditionally handled Tibet’s government in the period between the death of one Dalai Lama and the completion of his successor’s education.

Bejing, meanwhile, is concerned that the Dalai Lama’s retirement undermines both its ability to appoint a credible successor and its criticism of his government-in-exile as an undemocratic relic of Tibet’s old theocracy.

Ironically, as Columbia University Tibetologist Robert Barnett has noted, those concerns mean the Chinese government is now pushing openly for the Dalai Lama to stick to the traditional succession model, even as it continues to denounce the system it says he represents.

The contradiction was on full display last week as a press conference with three local experts from the China Tibetology Research Center organized by the state-backed All-China Journalists’ Association.

Tsering Yangdzom, the only ethnic Tibetan among the experts, said the next Dalai Lama should be selected according to a religious tradition that she said dated back to the Sixth Dalai Lama, who reigned 1682-1706. The Sixth Dalai Lama is a significant reference in the succession debate as he was appointed by the Qing dynasty Emperor Kangxi, which the Chinese government maintains as a precedent.

The government-in-exile argues Emperor Kangxi only sent representatives to the Sixth Dalai Lama’s inauguration and was not involved in his selection.

Zhou Wei, another of the experts, rejected the Dalai Lama’s suggestions that he could appoint his own successor. “If he wants to win the hearts of the Tibetan people, he must respect traditions,” he said.

The third expert, Du Yongbin, said the Dalai Lama’s retirement plan showed that exile government’s prime minister had no real power until now and that therefore religious leader and his followers adhered to “the old theocratic way despite claimed efforts to transform their group into a secular and democratic one.”

Mr. Du went on to insist on three cardinal rules for the next Dalai Lama’s selection: observe historical precedent, respect religious requirements, and comply with the Chinese government’s “managing measures for the reincarnation of living Buddhas.”


Methinks there'll be a power vacuum and the system will implode. That, or nothing will progress or everything will move really slowly because everyone will be way too scared to make any decisions for themselves in case their the wrong ones. Its sad really, because they had the best safety net in the world and could've practised on him because His Holiness' rep would've countered any of the mistakes they made. A bit late now...

The TGIE won't just be facing China but also India, whom they've managed to piss off for so many years by manipulating them into arresting monks, controlling Tibetan demonstrations and the like.

Karma baby!

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2011, 08:25:35 PM »

The TGIE won't just be facing China but also India, whom they've managed to piss off for so many years by manipulating them into arresting monks, controlling Tibetan demonstrations and the like.


Good point there-  not forgetting their big and recent fall from grace with the karmapa raids and controversies. (Showed them above all, that nobody really gives a damn about this government that is um... governing a country-less nation).

Unfortunately, a majority of the next generation did not even grow up in Tibet. Many, not even in India among the Tibetan communities. It is quite unfortunate so many young tibetans will not hold on to the hundreds of years of practice, lineage and religious culture/tradition and it will be lost so soon; and there's no government to hold it together either. There's other karma in play here too, and perhaps they cannot even be blamed because they are living in cultures and places so far removed from that shangrila that their  government are still championing.

Then again, Dharma is timeless and borderless and it speaks many languages. All the more responsibility we have to make sure the teachings live on and the practices are upheld. While the Tibetan figure out their politics, let's at least make the struggles, sacrifices and lifetime of devotion of those great Tibetan Lamas WORTH IT.

DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2011, 07:21:14 PM »


Good point there-  not forgetting their big and recent fall from grace with the karmapa raids and controversies. (Showed them above all, that nobody really gives a damn about this government that is um... governing a country-less nation).


Sorry, to have to highlight that more and more countries are shifting allegiance from Tibet.  Not only TGIE is having to "fight" China for their country, but who will support them? As time goes by, more and more countries are shifting allegiance from Tibet. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1086.0

Then again, Dharma is timeless and borderless and it speaks many languages. All the more responsibility we have to make sure the teachings live on and the practices are upheld. While the Tibetan figure out their politics, let's at least make the struggles, sacrifices and lifetime of devotion of those great Tibetan Lamas WORTH IT.


Beautifully written! I agree with what you've said.

triesa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 05:24:57 PM »
I believe the new  parliment of TGIE will be going through a slow pace to get themselves ready to deal with political issues with China, India and other countries.

The Tibetans in the past  have basivally acted upon decisions of the Dalai Lama, now they have to learn democracy? I think it is something too new for them.

On another note, do you really think China will respect the decision made by this new paliment of TGIE who doesn't even have a country to run? China already said it will appoint the successor for the Dalai Lama, so my point here is the new TGIE should spend more time on working on the welfare of the tibetans in exile in India, stop attacking the Shugdenpas and should try to unite the Tibetans in exile rather than splitting them up using the Shugden issue. Tibetans are already a minority, they should not create any more trouble in India who has been so kind to let them use the land to stay.

 I don't think Tibetans will ever get back their country, so I sincerely hope the newly elected political leader by the TGIE will exercise wisdom at this critical time.

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 09:36:21 AM »
So much to worry about if we were to merely focus on the great political debate of ‘Succession’ re- the Dalai Lama. Wouldn’t it be better if we focus instead on ensuring the spread of Dharma?

 As Beggar so aptly puts it(Thank you, Beggar), “Dharma is timeless and borderless and speaks many languages”. Also , I quote this from DS.Com Administration on the practice of Dorje Shugden:  “Dorje Shugden doesn’t belong to the Tibetans, it belongs to mankind”.

Shouldn’t our best efforts and endeavors be directed towards the preservation and growth of the lineage teachings of Je Tsongkapa so painstakingly kept alive by great lineage masters, including Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche? Wasn’t it for this, that Dorje Shugden arose as an uncommon Dharma Protector – to protect and spread these pure teachings, especially Nargajuna’s Middle(Correct) View on Emptiness propounded with unexcelled clarity by Lama Tsongkapa?   

 


WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 04:42:25 PM »
So much to worry about if we were to merely focus on the great political debate of ‘Succession’ re- the Dalai Lama. Wouldn’t it be better if we focus instead on ensuring the spread of Dharma?

 As Beggar so aptly puts it(Thank you, Beggar), “Dharma is timeless and borderless and speaks many languages”. Also , I quote this from DS.Com Administration on the practice of Dorje Shugden:  “Dorje Shugden doesn’t belong to the Tibetans, it belongs to mankind”.

Shouldn’t our best efforts and endeavors be directed towards the preservation and growth of the lineage teachings of Je Tsongkapa so painstakingly kept alive by great lineage masters, including Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche? Wasn’t it for this, that Dorje Shugden arose as an uncommon Dharma Protector – to protect and spread these pure teachings, especially Nargajuna’s Middle(Correct) View on Emptiness propounded with unexcelled clarity by Lama Tsongkapa?   


Dear VajraStorm,

I agree that we should focus on Tsongkhapa's holy lineage teachings and that Dorje Shugden manifested to protect this very lineage.

However, the Dalai Lama has actively campaigned against Dorje Shugden and for the majority of people out there, the Dalai Lama's stance on Dorje Shugden, however illogical it is, is law. People will stop at literally nothing to ensure that the Dalai Lama's ban on Dorje Shugden practice is carried out and all forms of witch hunts are still occurring all over the place.

So while i thoroughly dislike politics, I am trying to understand the politics of the Dalai Lama's succession in order to see how the general perception of Dorje Shugden will be. We live in interesting times and I can feel things shifting, with the latest elections of the TGIE.

We may think (wishfully) that politics are nothing to do with us Shugden practitioners, but  - because it affects our lineage masters, the Shugden monasteries, the future of Dorje Shugden - and because Dorje Shugden IS the uncommon protector of Tsongkhapa's middle view as taught by Nagarjuna - it directly affects the future of Tsongkhapa's lineage.

Both Dorje Shugden and Tsongkhapa are intertwined - the growth of one directly affects the growth of the other.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2011, 01:55:07 PM »
I have been thinking: maybe the only way forward is not to fight the political system but to work with it which maybe would be easier than fighting the tide. Those who have been successful in their practices (recently, anyway) are working WITH the system.

Let's see - let's look at Serpom and Shar Gaden monasteries. Understanding that the "law" has said that they must leave their respective monasteries (Sera / Gaden) and be excluded from the Tibetan community, they consciously chose to remove themselves. Work with the system, turn it back on the TGIE, and grow very big.

Remember that many, many, many Tibetans around the world are no longer Tibetan by nationality but have even adopted other countries' passports. Now, they identify themselves as Indian, or Swiss or American. The TGIE's insular village-like rules and laws will feel very outdated and backward to many of these Tibetans who are living under other countries' governments, which give so much more freedom and are more progressive.

So in future, the rules and laws that the TGIE are trying to impose will only become more and more marginalised, and eventually, turned against them. Surely, as a young generation open their eyes and get more exposed, they will want more than what the TGIE are offering. In future, they don't even have the Dalai Lama to fall back on since he has stepped back.

So, their convenient "law" that if someone is a DS practitioner has to be expelled from the community or ostracised, is just shooting themselves in the foot. Soon, maybe, people will use that very same reason to really turn their backs and leave to greener pastures.

hope rainbow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 947
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 01:01:12 PM »
TGIE looks like they are going to have a similar fate as what became to the Polish Government in Exile.
In the eighties, they would still convene weekly to discuss the politics of Poland. With time passing, the ministers grew old and it all became irrelevant.
I heard of them sometimes in the eighties as a curiosity more than a political power.

from Wikipedia:
The Government of the Republic of Poland in Exile was the government in exile of Poland formed in the aftermath of the Invasion of Poland of September 1939, and the subsequent occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
Though largely unrecognized and without effective power after the end of World War II, it remained in existence until the end of Communist rule in Poland in 1990, in opposition to the People's Republic of Poland, a Soviet satellite state, when it formally passed on its responsibilities to the new government.
The government-in-exile was based in France during 1939 and 1940, first in Paris and then in Angers.
From 1940, following the fall of France to the Nazis, the government moved to London, and remained in the United Kingdom until its dissolution in 1990.

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 02:25:04 PM »
TGIE looks like they are going to have a similar fate as what became to the Polish Government in Exile.
In the eighties, they would still convene weekly to discuss the politics of Poland. With time passing, the ministers grew old and it all became irrelevant.
I heard of them sometimes in the eighties as a curiosity more than a political power.

from Wikipedia:
The Government of the Republic of Poland in Exile was the government in exile of Poland formed in the aftermath of the Invasion of Poland of September 1939, and the subsequent occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
Though largely unrecognized and without effective power after the end of World War II, it remained in existence until the end of Communist rule in Poland in 1990, in opposition to the People's Republic of Poland, a Soviet satellite state, when it formally passed on its responsibilities to the new government.
The government-in-exile was based in France during 1939 and 1940, first in Paris and then in Angers.
From 1940, following the fall of France to the Nazis, the government moved to London, and remained in the United Kingdom until its dissolution in 1990.


What a odd coincident that it also lasted about 50 years or so!
Helena

thaimonk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 652
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 04:34:44 PM »
TGIE looks like they are going to have a similar fate as what became to the Polish Government in Exile.
In the eighties, they would still convene weekly to discuss the politics of Poland. With time passing, the ministers grew old and it all became irrelevant.
I heard of them sometimes in the eighties as a curiosity more than a political power.

from Wikipedia:
The Government of the Republic of Poland in Exile was the government in exile of Poland formed in the aftermath of the Invasion of Poland of September 1939, and the subsequent occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
Though largely unrecognized and without effective power after the end of World War II, it remained in existence until the end of Communist rule in Poland in 1990, in opposition to the People's Republic of Poland, a Soviet satellite state, when it formally passed on its responsibilities to the new government.
The government-in-exile was based in France during 1939 and 1940, first in Paris and then in Angers.
From 1940, following the fall of France to the Nazis, the government moved to London, and remained in the United Kingdom until its dissolution in 1990.


I thought Tibet was unique in it's exiled govt operations. It is fascinating re the Polish Exiled govt which mirrors the Tibetan Exiled Govt also in so many ways. Eventually the ministers become old and their cause fades. Well the Tibetan Govt has no power and can sway no one anyways. The reason it lasted this long is solely because of the Dalai Lama. Everything hangs on this one person. Very interesting post, thank you.


WoselTenzin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 01:21:28 PM »
After Dalai Lama's death, my prediction would be that the Dorje Shugden ban would die its natural death because it cannot threaten the life of Dalai Lama anymore plus there is no endangered Tibetan cause to talk about.  Even while Dlai Lama is alive, he has already given up the prospect of independent Tibet and his compromise for an autonomous Tibet under the Chinese rule has received luke warm response from China.  TGIE with its aging ministers and government officials who even now has no power if not for Dalai Lama would most probably fade into oblivion.

New and young progressive educated Tibetan leaders like Lobsang Sangey would come to the fore front and take over the leadership of Tibetan affairs.  How and in what form is left to be seen. I wish the new Tibetan leader all the best.  I hope he can do better for his countrymen than his predecessors.     

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2011, 12:42:18 AM »
TGIE looks like they are going to have a similar fate as what became to the Polish Government in Exile.
In the eighties, they would still convene weekly to discuss the politics of Poland. With time passing, the ministers grew old and it all became irrelevant.
I heard of them sometimes in the eighties as a curiosity more than a political power.

from Wikipedia:
The Government of the Republic of Poland in Exile was the government in exile of Poland formed in the aftermath of the Invasion of Poland of September 1939, and the subsequent occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
Though largely unrecognized and without effective power after the end of World War II, it remained in existence until the end of Communist rule in Poland in 1990, in opposition to the People's Republic of Poland, a Soviet satellite state, when it formally passed on its responsibilities to the new government.
The government-in-exile was based in France during 1939 and 1940, first in Paris and then in Angers.
From 1940, following the fall of France to the Nazis, the government moved to London, and remained in the United Kingdom until its dissolution in 1990.

This is very fascinating! I have never heard of the Polish government in exile. I think the similarities are intriguing but the Polish government is completely secular while the Tibetan government is run by a hodge-podge of monastic and secular leaders. Outwardly, the TGIE looks democratic but the inner workings reveal a more archaic theocratic rule, hence the great and famous ban on Dorje Shugden. Since the ban is in the realm of spiritual affairs, it becomes a very hot and difficult subject to deal with, which makes many people outside of the TIbetan community choose rather to conveniently ignore or decided not to face it. Poland government in exile does not have to contend with such issues. This makes for a huge difference and may be one of larger nails that will nail shut the coffin of the TGIE.

hope rainbow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 947
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2011, 05:48:27 AM »
This is very fascinating! I have never heard of the Polish government in exile. I think the similarities are intriguing but the Polish government is completely secular while the Tibetan government is run by a hodge-podge of monastic and secular leaders. Outwardly, the TGIE looks democratic but the inner workings reveal a more archaic theocratic rule, hence the great and famous ban on Dorje Shugden. Since the ban is in the realm of spiritual affairs, it becomes a very hot and difficult subject to deal with, which makes many people outside of the TIbetan community choose rather to conveniently ignore or decided not to face it. Poland government in exile does not have to contend with such issues. This makes for a huge difference and may be one of larger nails that will nail shut the coffin of the TGIE.

Indeed, the Dalai Lama has kept the Tibet alive in the international eye, and certainly the polish government had nothing monastic in it at all.
TGIE would be a curiosity too if it was not for what the Dalai Lama did to gain international recognition.
The Dalai Lama has prepared for the future to be good! I am very excited to grow older!
Folded hands to His Holiness.

DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: And the debate continues
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2011, 03:12:38 PM »

New and young progressive educated Tibetan leaders like Lobsang Sangey would come to the fore front and take over the leadership of Tibetan affairs.  How and in what form is left to be seen. I wish the new Tibetan leader all the best.  I hope he can do better for his countrymen than his predecessors.     

New leaders, trained and exposed to democratic ruling systems can be put into power. But will the people support and comply with the system so that the system can work to bring about what it's supposed to for the betterment of the country?

Perhaps not immediately... but again,..which "country" will this ruling system be applied when there is no country per se.