Do you think the Dalai Lama's ban is an act of a Mahasiddha?

[Atishas cook]

yeah occasionally i start to think maybe Matribhadra's being a little too strong.  then i read something like this:

HH The Dalai Lama is definitely a Mahasiddha. As he is an enlightened being, someone who have attainments, and someone who is like a Buddha. I dare not to doubt HH The Dalai Lama.  What I heard from a lot of people is that this is a way of HH The Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden working together to spread the holy Dharma, to achieve something big. Sometimes you just need to sacrifice something to achieve something even bigger. That is how I see it. May all the things that have to be achieved be achieved faster so that all the Tibetan and Monks do not have to suffer anymore.

[Atishas cook]

Matibhadra, sorry.  rogue 'r'.

[Manjushri]

We won't know for sure now until much later but looking at it , from what I can see, His Holiness is facing so much criticism for implementing the ban against Shugden. Why did he put himself up to such levels of scrutiny and outlash by the public for reasons he knows is easily rebutted when subjected to debate? He is a master of debate himself, so why would he give such silly reasons for the ban, and go against his gurus, just to impose a ban which the public can totally see through is built from lies? The results of this ban has spread far and wide, with increasing practitioners of Dorje Shugden (who has been predicted to be the Buddha that we will all rely on in this degenerate age) all around the world, more lamas bringing the practise to the world, more monasteries built dedicated to the spread of Dorje Shugden's lineage... it has had a positive 'repercussion', though the discrimination that practitioners have to endure is terrible. Whatever it may be, Mahasiddha or not, I know that the ban has to come down, so that all these increased practitioners worldwide, and Tibetans can practise freely.     

[Q]

Q,

Though some of Matibhadra's language specifically attacking individuals may seem misplaced, they make many important points, and since the main point of life is to increase realization, I contend that having someone here that tests our patience with some slight insult is wonderful. How kind Matibhadra is to clarify important things while poking at our worldly concerns. Thank you Matibhadra.

Dear Psylotripitaka,

Thank you for your message. Reading your message calmed my mind.

However, unfortunately I do not share your view of Matibhadra. Calling the DL 'terrorist', 'evil', etc is just not right, as it instigate greater hate (which is unnecessary), I'm very sure no one want's to gain THAT realization.

This forum is 'Dorje Shugden Forum', not 'Spread the hate forum'. I have seen his replies to other people too, and it is obvious how he attacks them just for having a different view from him in regards to the Dalai Lama. It appears that he is no different from those Pro-Shugden Tibetan Extremists that openly said they would kill Trijang Rinpoche just because Trijang Rinpoche met with the Dalai Lama.

Food for thought: No one at this point of time and place has tested our patience more than the Dalai Lama, whom has also gave us the biggest insult we can imagine by forcing us to disparage our teachers. So do we give a thousand fold worth of Thank Yous to the Dalai Lama? lol.

[Atishas cook]

"No one at this point of time and place has tested our patience more than the Dalai Lama, whom has also gave us the biggest insult we can imagine by forcing us to disparage our teachers. So do we give a thousand fold worth of Thank Yous to the Dalai Lama?"

yes, of course (though nobody has forced me personally to disparage my teachers).  we thank the False DL for testing our patience, just as we thank any other highly deluded individual who tests our patience and our unconditional love - but we do that in our hearts, secretly, according to the conventions of our society.  at the same time, we stand up and try as best we can to STOP their harmful and abusive actions.  in my view, this is all Matibhadra is doing: calling a spade a spade and  an evil terrorist an evil terrorist.

[Blueupali]

"No one at this point of time and place has tested our patience more than the Dalai Lama, whom has also gave us the biggest insult we can imagine by forcing us to disparage our teachers. So do we give a thousand fold worth of Thank Yous to the Dalai Lama?"

yes, of course (though nobody has forced me personally to disparage my teachers).  we thank the False DL for testing our patience, just as we thank any other highly deluded individual who tests our patience and our unconditional love - but we do that in our hearts, secretly, according to the conventions of our society.  at the same time, we stand up and try as best we can to STOP their harmful and abusive actions.  in my view, this is all Matibhadra is doing: calling a spade a spade and  an evil terrorist an evil terrorist.

Hi Atisha's cook,
  I am just urging caution on the term 'calling a spade a spade' as the NPR article below also does.  It originally did not have racial overtones, according to the article, but now may be interpreted that way, so just please exercise caution, as we wouldn't want to be seen as racist. 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/09/19/224183763/is-it-racist-to-call-a-spade-a-spade

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/09/19/224183763/is-it-racist-to-call-a-spade-a-spade

[Atishas cook]

srsly?

[Blueupali]

@Atisha's cook,
  I am not saying in anyway that you intend to be racist, just that the phrase has evolved overtime to have racist connotations, so I was just saying, and not meaning any offense at all.

[Matibhadra]

HH The Dalai Lama is definitely a Mahasiddha.

“Mahasiddha” is in the eyes of the beholder. Those like you supporting terrorist acts, such as those perpetrated by the evil dalai, will always see a “mahasiddha” in the evil terrorist.

Therefore, it is not so much that the evil dalai is a “mahasiddha”, but mainly that people like you need some kind of icon to legitimize and sanctify their own bestial, terrorist instincts.

As he is an enlightened being, someone who have attainments, and someone who is like a Buddha.

In a Buddhist culture, a “buddha” is the paradigm of goodness and excellence. Therefore, anyone wanting to promote and empower a terrorist will call him or her “a buddha”.

I dare not to doubt HH The Dalai Lama.

This is precisely what makes you not a Buddhist.

While Buddhists go for refuge to the Three Jewels, you go for refuge to an evil terrorist.

And while Buddhists are supposed to check even a authentic guru, you do not dare to doubt even an authentic terrorist.

Therefore, it is just natural that in your dalaite pseudo-religion the evil dalai is praised as a “mahasiddha”.

What I heard from a lot of people is that this is a way of HH The Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden working together to spread the holy Dharma, to achieve something big.

A big pollution of Dharma with the dirtiest politics, at best.

Sometimes you just need to sacrifice something to achieve something even bigger.

What you are brazenly proposing is to sacrifice the purity of Je Tsongkhapa's tradition in order to achieve great mundane success with your “mahasiddha”, the evil dalai.

That is how I see it. May all the things that have to be achieved be achieved faster so that all the Tibetan and Monks do not have to suffer anymore.

Sure. If all Dorje Shugden practitioners are fastly converted to dalaism, or eliminated, they will not have to suffer anymore, right? This is your “big achievement”. And then evil dalai will be a “mahasiddha” forever and ever.

Bottom line, dalaism, being an evil, terrorist cult personality, is thoroughly incompatible not only with any form of Buddhism, but also with even the barest minimum of human decency, as shown by your impudent, shameless remarks.

[Matibhadra]

While you are most welcome on this forum and you bring about quite a lively discussion on important matters, I would ask you to kindly be more skillful when addressing other participants.

Some people just feign to take offence at my remarks, as a cheap tactics aimed at distracting the readers' attention from the essential point, which is their brazen, shameless support to terrorism and terrorists.

[Matibhadra]

yeah occasionally i start to think maybe Matribhadra's being a little too strong.

If my remarks are wrong they surely can always be corrected, and I'll humbly accept and be thankful for the correction.

Otherwise, what is strong are not my remarks, but their subject, to wit, the bestiality of anyone's support to terrorism and terrorists. This is shocking, this is outrageous, not my remarks.

[Matibhadra]

Ma(i)t(r)ibhadra, sorry.  rogue 'r'.

No rogue, friendly love!

[Matibhadra]

Reading your message calmed my mind.

Great. Hotheadedness brings no good.

However, unfortunately I do not share your view of Matibhadra. Calling the DL 'terrorist', 'evil', etc is just not right, as it instigate greater hate (which is unnecessary), I'm very sure no one want's to gain THAT realization.

Realization of reality never instigates hatred. Hatred is only a result of hotheadedness, which is your own confessed speciality.

This forum is 'Dorje Shugden Forum', not 'Spread the hate forum'.

If so, why do you insist on spreading the hateful message of the evil terrorist dalai, promoting him as a “mahasiddha”? Because you are hotheaded? Or because you lack realization of reality? Or surely both, I would say.

I have seen his replies to other people too, and it is obvious how he attacks them just for having a different view from him in regards to the Dalai Lama.

This is a very distorted view. I have never attacked anyone, not even the evil terrorist dalai. I just analyze reality. If I am wrong, please just correct me instead of resorting to sordid, unwarranted personal attacks.

It appears that he is no different from those Pro-Shugden Tibetan Extremists that openly said they would kill Trijang Rinpoche just because Trijang Rinpoche met with the Dalai Lama.

Never heard of such extremists. Did you invent them in a frenzy of hotheadedness, or did you just introject some ridiculous dalaite invention?

[...] the Dalai Lama, whom has also gave us the biggest insult we can imagine by forcing us to disparage our teachers.

Having felt insulted, and forced to disparage your teachers, always by the evil dalai, now you identify with, and even feel the need to sanctify, your depraved captor, to the point of calling him a ”mahasiddha”. This is known as “Stockholm Syndrome”, which affects many spiritual hostages of cult leaders such as the evil dalai.

Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them. [...] Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

[psylotripitaka]

I'm onboard with Matibhadra and Atisha's Cook on this. As you can see with my other posts in this thread, I have shared some thoughts in an attempt to help people reconcile their Guru-disciple relationship with a person whose actions are non-Buddhist. I understand your dilemma, but I also see how it is difficult for the message of these two mentioned members to get through to you.

As I said, it is possible to keep pure view while at the same time taking practical steps according to conventional appearances. The following is a view based in the conventions of society and Dharma itself.

Lhamo Dondrub (the proper name of the false Dalai Lama) has abandoned his lineage Gurus, contradicts the Dharma and his vows and commitments, and is therefore not a valid teacher or holder of lineage. I understand where some of you are coming from, but the actions of Lhamo Dondrub are so non-Buddhist that it is completely inappropriate not only to dare give him a title earned only by true Masters who've worked their ass off in meditation - Mahasiddha - but to even rely upon such a degenerate person for one's spiritual growth. Have you read the Lamrim teachings about the disadvantages of improper actions towards a valid Guru? If it is detrimental to one's spiritual development to closely associate with people who speak ill of one's Guru's or spiritual life, it is certainly detrimental to one's spiritual development to rely upon someone who acts as Lhamo Dondrub. To put him in the same category as actual Mahasiddha's such as Saraha, Tilopa, Naropa, Milarepa, Padmasambhava, Gyelwa Ensapa and so on is completely inappropriate and ridiculous.

As Atisha's Cook said, if you're gonna have this view, keep it to yourself, don't propagate it publicly. What is of paramount importance on this website is NOT to promote Lhamo Dondrub, but to invalidate his ban. It does not promote this aim to also promote him as a valid Teacher.

Bottom line - Lhamo Dondrub abandoned his lineage Gurus, disparages them publicly, has engaged in an aggressive campaign to destroy the precious Gelug lineage, and encouraged a cultural revolution-style violence towards Buddhist practitioners. Those who continue to rely upon him and support his actions should be ashamed of themselves.

[Big Uncle]

I'm onboard with Matibhadra and Atisha's Cook on this. As you can see with my other posts in this thread, I have shared some thoughts in an attempt to help people reconcile their Guru-disciple relationship with a person whose actions are non-Buddhist. I understand your dilemma, but I also see how it is difficult for the message of these two mentioned members to get through to you.

As I said, it is possible to keep pure view while at the same time taking practical steps according to conventional appearances. The following is a view based in the conventions of society and Dharma itself.

Lhamo Dondrub (the proper name of the false Dalai Lama) has abandoned his lineage Gurus, contradicts the Dharma and his vows and commitments, and is therefore not a valid teacher or holder of lineage. I understand where some of you are coming from, but the actions of Lhamo Dondrub are so non-Buddhist that it is completely inappropriate not only to dare give him a title earned only by true Masters who've worked their ass off in meditation - Mahasiddha - but to even rely upon such a degenerate person for one's spiritual growth. Have you read the Lamrim teachings about the disadvantages of improper actions towards a valid Guru? If it is detrimental to one's spiritual development to closely associate with people who speak ill of one's Guru's or spiritual life, it is certainly detrimental to one's spiritual development to rely upon someone who acts as Lhamo Dondrub. To put him in the same category as actual Mahasiddha's such as Saraha, Tilopa, Naropa, Milarepa, Padmasambhava, Gyelwa Ensapa and so on is completely inappropriate and ridiculous.

As Atisha's Cook said, if you're gonna have this view, keep it to yourself, don't propagate it publicly. What is of paramount importance on this website is NOT to promote Lhamo Dondrub, but to invalidate his ban. It does not promote this aim to also promote him as a valid Teacher.

Bottom line - Lhamo Dondrub abandoned his lineage Gurus, disparages them publicly, has engaged in an aggressive campaign to destroy the precious Gelug lineage, and encouraged a cultural revolution-style violence towards Buddhist practitioners. Those who continue to rely upon him and support his actions should be ashamed of themselves.

I am sorry but not everyone agrees with you that this is a false Dalai Lama. At this point, I do not wish to engage in a lengthy debate about the Dalai Lama but to ask you what's your point in degrading the Dalai Lama? I think you are saying this is to let the followers of the Dalai Lama that they should be ashamed of themselves and then what? After insulting their lama whom they believe to be the incarnation of Avalokiteshvara/Chenrezig, you expect them to renounce the Dalai Lama and pressure him to release the ban? Wouldn't that make us no different than the followers of the Dalai Lama, degrading the Shugden lineage lamas to justify the ban. Wouldn't that just infuriate and incite them to be violent? Remember that many of those you are dealing with are Tibetans. Before you jump to conclusions, think it through first. 

Notice I said us because we are all practitioners of Dorje Shugden. I am saying this because we are all on the same side, suffering in one way or another, the effects of the ban. Some of us may share differences in opinion of how we want to fight the Dorje Shugden ban. We should remember that we are all on the same side. I just want to point to the fact that some of us would very much like to fight the ban head on and especially on those who enforces the ban directly like the CTA. Another way is to promote and highlight the identity and qualities of Dorje Shugden in the world because eventually the truth will come out. It has to come out and the lies that have been propagated will be quickly refuted. Just thought I share what I have in mind...