Author Topic: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others  (Read 16966 times)

biggyboy

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 07:31:18 PM »

When we are able to do that our "enemy" and our "problems" from our point of view disappears. We become peaceful and happy.  And this is a proven method to happiness and great masters of the past are testimony to the success of this practice. Since this is the case, why is it that everyone wants happiness but finds it so difficult to practice accept defeat and offering the victory to others? Why is it we lack faith in such practice? Very often, we don't seem to believe it works. Why?
It is always not an easy trait one can accomplish in just a moment.  It has to be conditioned over time by checking our mind constantly should situation arises warrant us to justify and defend oneself.  All this boils down to our big fat ego thinking that we are always right.  No matter where we are or what we do and having expectations one will experience arguments, justifications, defensive, always want to be right...all these will never end if one does not let go.  Both parties will be ended up hurt or unhappy.  Is that what we want?

sonamdhargey

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2012, 06:02:43 AM »
Offering Victory to others does not mean we are defeated. In fact we win. We win because we are not controlled by our emotional and unstable mind that arises from our ego. We always want to win and what is left is the after effects of the devastation created because we cannot put our ego down. All lose. Why create something that have negative consequences when we can choose otherwise? Just to feed our ego? We offer victory to others there will be less stress, less arguments, no war. Be happy! ;D

jeremyg

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2012, 01:36:41 PM »
In the beginning it is very hard to accept defeat and let others win but with time it will become easier. However I find in some cases it is necessary to not let others win. For example:
If letting someone win, will cause the person to repeat that action again, and the action brings them more negative karma, then it is necessary to stop them. Such is the case that we should not accept defeat.

Having said that, letting others win is a great way to practice humility and humbleness, so we definitely should let others win, unless we see that letting them win will bring them greater suffering in the future.

This is just what I think, it may not necessarily be right, but please someone let me know what you think.

RedLantern

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2012, 08:23:53 AM »
This topic reminds me of 8 verses of thought transformation. Accepting defeat doesn't mean blaming yourself for things that aren't your responsibility,losing your self dignity or making youself a doormat.It means letting go of having to be right,of having to have the last word.We don't have to prove our case.We don't have to make sure that everybody understands that we  are right and the other person is wrong.It means letting go of our ego's need to prove itself and be the conqueror.Instead of sowing bitterness,you sow forgiveness.
Through this practise one will be a happier person.

Midakpa

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2012, 02:26:03 PM »
According to Pabongka Rinpoche, this verse from Langri Tangpa's Eight Verses of Mind Transformation is the ultimate instruction on training the mind and will enable one to achieve Buddhahood.

In "Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand", Pabongka Rinpoche related the story about how Geshe Chaekawa  came across this verse and decided to look for Langri Tangpa. But Langri Tangpa had died, so he requested his successor Sharawa to give him instruction on mind training. Through Sharawa's teaching, Chaekawa developed bodhicitta and gave this instruction to many lepers who were cured by meditating on this instruction. The teaching came to be called "Lepers' Dharma".

Before this time, the teaching was kept a secret. But Chaekawa thought it a great pity to keep it a secret and decided to teach it in public. His teaching is called the "Essence of Nectar Instruction", containing the "Seven-Point Mind Training".

This teaching helps us to abandon self-cherishing and achieve bodhicitta. (See "Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand", p. 537)

dondrup

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2012, 06:09:12 PM »
Since beginingless time, we are only familiar with ourselves - our ego.  Our survival instinct will without fail guide us to protect this ego come what may! Anything concerning others is generally out of our scope of interest.  There is only the win-lose situations. No win-win or lose-win situations for us.

"Accepting defeat and offering the victory to others" consist of two parts.  The first part is to accept defeat.  With our egoistic mind since beginningless time, this is almost impossible to do.  The second part is to offer victory.  Already defeated and yet willing to let others win is like adding salt to the wound!  Hence accepting defeat and offering victory – a very high level and advanced mind training or Lojong practice – is beyond many practitioners’ reach.  On the other hand, this profound practice is very beneficial.  It gives us vast amount of merits, it purifies our negative karma when we take on the suffering of others and finally it helps to destroy our self-cherishing mind.  This Lojong practice is the basis to our achievement of the mind of bodhichitta.

Jessie Fong

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2012, 04:14:43 AM »
How often can we accept defeat and offer the victory to others?  We have been told to treat our greatest enemy is our practice for it is he who will be the object to lead us on the path to change us.

Since it is very difficult to accept being on the losing end, letting the other party wins becomes the focus of our practice.  Our ego may be dented; we feel we lost out but this is not the issue.  What is important is that whatever the situation, the issue must be settled between the parties to come to an amicable solution.

hope rainbow

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2012, 04:47:25 AM »
Very interesting topic we have here, Nice to read again all the replies.

Offering the victory to others reminds me of the solution that Mahatma Gandhi came up with prior to the separation of India between a Muslim state and a Hindu state.

The will for a separation was stronger in the Muslim party than it was in the Hindu party, mostly because they were in a minority, a large minority, but a minority.

When some of the Muslim Indians came demanding their own separate country (which will later take reality as Pakistan and Bangladesh), Gandhi was extremely distraught, as he taught India should stay united and he could see no reason why Hindus and Muslims could not live together harmoniously as they had done for centuries already.
To Gandhi, the separation between 2 countries was more a cause for conflicts than a solution to conflicts.
And Gandhi was seriously concerned about this.

So Gandhi very seriously suggested that India be led by the Muslim party and remain ONE.
He suggested this as the solution to the problem. Gandhi knew that this would be a solution, that it would silence the reasoning and argumentation of the separatists. He knew that this was a cause for respect, for tolerance, for understanding, for harmony.

Accept defeat and give them the victory and the cause for conflict ceases to exist.
Accept defeat and give them the victory and the struggle to "win" ends there, creating ample room for real dialogue, harmony and peace.
Accept defeat and give them the victory and the victory will be ours all.

I really think that history would have proven him right.
History certainly did not prove that the separation was a cause for peace, for there would be peace by now, and all there is is fear and "status-quo" with a very strong and scary potential for conflict at any time.
I pray and dedicate the merit from participating to this forum today directly to peace on the Indian continent.

Barzin

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2012, 08:25:22 AM »
This is a very interesting thread.  Personally I also do not know how it works exactly.  It is okay when people get difficult and insist they are right, I would be okay and let them win even though it goes against my thought of how it should be.  You'll feel compassionate about them and hoping they will sometimes see the way you see things because you learn the dharma.  But if you keep offering the victory to them, wouldn't it all allow us to become more ignorant and not doing anything about it?  I suppose it has a lot to do with wisdom, how to apply skillful means to go about the situation.  A lot of us just talk and talk and do not do the walk.  How many are doing the walk.  So i guess it is the consistency of compassion and determination to stick around that very person to help and make sure whatever they win, is true victory of dharma.  To me that is true dharma practice.  To offer the very victory to them is not just momentarily.

sonamdhargey

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2012, 10:35:57 AM »
Accepting defeat and Offering to Victory the others saves us a lot of time trying to justify and can avoid very unnecessary circumstances. If we keep on trying to win there will be no end and the results are often bad. History has showed us that wars and conflicts arises from indifferences created by two parties or more and the results are always negative when both or more parties does not want to stand down and let each other win or have a compromise. Wanting to win all the time only makes us miserable. Anyway the only thing that gets hurt if we lose is our ego.

Positive Change

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2012, 01:40:06 PM »
Very interesting topic we have here, Nice to read again all the replies.

Offering the victory to others reminds me of the solution that Mahatma Gandhi came up with prior to the separation of India between a Muslim state and a Hindu state.

The will for a separation was stronger in the Muslim party than it was in the Hindu party, mostly because they were in a minority, a large minority, but a minority.

When some of the Muslim Indians came demanding their own separate country (which will later take reality as Pakistan and Bangladesh), Gandhi was extremely distraught, as he taught India should stay united and he could see no reason why Hindus and Muslims could not live together harmoniously as they had done for centuries already.
To Gandhi, the separation between 2 countries was more a cause for conflicts than a solution to conflicts.
And Gandhi was seriously concerned about this.

So Gandhi very seriously suggested that India be led by the Muslim party and remain ONE.
He suggested this as the solution to the problem. Gandhi knew that this would be a solution, that it would silence the reasoning and argumentation of the separatists. He knew that this was a cause for respect, for tolerance, for understanding, for harmony.

Accept defeat and give them the victory and the cause for conflict ceases to exist.
Accept defeat and give them the victory and the struggle to "win" ends there, creating ample room for real dialogue, harmony and peace.
Accept defeat and give them the victory and the victory will be ours all.

I really think that history would have proven him right.
History certainly did not prove that the separation was a cause for peace, for there would be peace by now, and all there is is fear and "status-quo" with a very strong and scary potential for conflict at any time.
I pray and dedicate the merit from participating to this forum today directly to peace on the Indian continent.

Interesting example you gave here HR.
So offering the victory to others does not equate with giving up... In fact, I believe it is harder to offer the victory and let go of our instinctual urge to WIN, our urge to BE RIGHT than it is to give in SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS and hold on to the grudge.

So offering the victory to others is a definite sign of great strength and great skills, I think we should contemplate on that.

IT IS NOT ABOUT WINNING, IT IS ABOUT BEING OF BENEFIT TO OTHERS AND OUR SELF.
When we offer victory to others, we actually have won a battle with our ego.
When we offer the victory to others we have de-fused the WMD.

hope rainbow

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2012, 02:31:38 PM »
IT IS NOT ABOUT WINNING, IT IS ABOUT BEING OF BENEFIT TO OTHERS AND OUR SELF.
When we offer victory to others, we actually have won a battle with our ego.
When we offer the victory to others we have de-fused the WMD.

WMD?

Aurore

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2012, 01:53:44 AM »
I have been pondering about this for sometime and it has always been a tricky issue to me.

I guess the first step is to accept that we may not be right all the time. Even if we are, we should give in to others to stop more negative karma from arising. There must be a reason why we experience certain situations anyways. It's our previous karma to be accused, blamed, misunderstood, yelled at, abused, etc.

What if the person is really wrong? Then we have to question our motivation. Do I just keep quiet and let the person win because it's easier to deal with but deep inside we do not let go and just boils up? Is it beneficial for this person if I give in? Am I trying to tell this person off because of my ego or is it truly to benefit them?

I guess the best is not to react. To me this is what it means by accepting defeat and offering victory to others. By not reacting, we will be able to think clearly and get our motivation right. By not acting in anger, giving view point can also improve and feed backs will be more clear, accurate and effective.

buddhalovely

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2012, 08:50:29 AM »
As humans it is only natural for us to defend ourselves as respond to pain. We only need to understand how the pain started and be open minded about the other end's ideal of it's situation, then our anger would immediately dissolve. We wouldn't have to say that we are surrendering the victory to others when there is a reason for everything. Once you understand the whole scenario on this unlikely situation you would learn that you could be the wrong one. Even if you are right, there is no reason on why you have to make sure that others know your victory when it may lead to  an unnecessary fight. It's call being ethical and mature. You don't need a scientist to tell you that.

Rihanna

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2012, 11:04:02 AM »
When others out of jealousy treat me badly with abuse, slander and the like, may I suffer the defeat and offer the victory to others. This is one of the Eight Verses of Training the Mind by Geshe Langri Tangpa. When I heard it for the first time, it blew my mind away. And not exactly in a very positive way! I thought to myself, "no way I am gona let everyone step all over me and graciously accept it. How stupid is that!"

Years later, i come across a text on this teachings. When Geshe Chekawa (a great Kadampa Buddhist meditation master) met Geshe Sharawa (one of the main disciples of Geshe Langri Tangpa), he asked him "How important is the practice of accepting defeat and offering the victory to others?"
 Geshe Sharawa replied, "If you want to attain enlightenment, this practice is essential." Geshe Chekhawa then requested full instructions on this practice and Geshe Sharawa said "If you stay with me for several years I will teach you." Geshe Chekhawa stayed with Geshe Sharawa for 12 years until he mastered the practice of training the mind. He had to face many different kinds of ordeals: all sorts of difficulties, criticism, hardships, and abuse. And the teaching was so effective, and his perseverance in its practice so intense, that he completely eradicated any self-grasping and self-cherishing.

Till today, this is still one of my hardest practices due my habituation to always want to be right, but each time when this thought arises, at least I catch myself and apply this teaching the the fullest extend that I am capable of for now.