Author Topic: 2 Obscurations  (Read 9600 times)

yontenjamyang

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2 Obscurations
« on: July 10, 2015, 08:01:25 AM »
Two obscurations (Tib. ?????????????, dribpa nyi; Wyl. sgrib pa gnyis) — emotional and cognitive obscurations.

Emotional obscurations are defined according to their essence, cause and function.
In essence, they are the opposite of the six paramitas, as described in the Gyü Lama:

"Thoughts such as avarice and so on,
These are the emotional obscurations."
Their cause is grasping at a personal ego, or the “self of the individual”.

They function to prevent liberation from samsara.

Cognitive obscurations are also defined according to their essence, cause and function.
In essence, they are thoughts that involve the three conceptual ‘spheres’ of subject, object and action. The Gyü Lama says:

"Thoughts that involve the three spheres,
These are the cognitive obscurations."
Their cause is grasping at phenomena as truly existent, or, in other words, the “self of phenomena”.

Their function is to prevent complete enlightenment.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2015, 03:30:13 AM »
Thank you for the clear explanation of the 2 obscurations that hinder our path to enlightenment.

On contemplating on the meaning and essence of these 2 obscuration, would it be the elimination of the ego and self be a good step forward.

During a participation of some adult experiential class, we were asked the question of "Who are we?" and OMG no one had the answer.  In the end the answer was "I am nothing, I am one and I am all". Quite profound and with the study of the Dharma, I think it is a good start to go forward.

Dharma's Bodhichitta vows is all about focusing out to others and result is to gain peace and calm to self which is the best form of existence.

yontenjamyang

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 06:41:15 AM »
Thank you for the clear explanation of the 2 obscurations that hinder our path to enlightenment.

On contemplating on the meaning and essence of these 2 obscuration, would it be the elimination of the ego and self be a good step forward.

During a participation of some adult experiential class, we were asked the question of "Who are we?" and OMG no one had the answer.  In the end the answer was "I am nothing, I am one and I am all". Quite profound and with the study of the Dharma, I think it is a good start to go forward.

Dharma's Bodhichitta vows is all about focusing out to others and result is to gain peace and calm to self which is the best form of existence.

Dondrup, Essentially, as in the Lamrim, in the medium scope, the realization of Emptiness on the motivation of Liberation achieves the "non-self" and in the Great scope, the realization of Emptiness on the basis of all other beings/eternal phenomena leads one to perfect full Enlightenment of Omniscience. One is mental ie internal the our is cognitive ie the view of the mind on the self and others.

In the Madhyamaka view the self exist but is dependently arised. We call this self the relative truth or temporary truth, hence the ultimate view is that this self is one of many in the cyclic existence and so are all sentient beings and all phenomena.

eyesoftara

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 10:36:16 AM »
From what I understand, when one reach the Boddhisattva grounds, we are faced with the 2 obscurations of the physical self, our delusions and phenomena or all knowable. The Mental Obscurations are the tendencies and the ignorance to the self and the delusions. The Cognitive Obscurations are the habits of the mental obscurations and the all knowable.

fruven

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015, 06:33:15 AM »
As I understand from Lamrim the two obscurations are:
i) obscuration to liberation
ii) obscuration to omniscience

To counter the first obscuration one needs to work on the path and progress towards renunciation. Arhatship is the goal after the first obscuration is overcome.

To counter the second obscuration one needs to work towards Bodhicitta. Fully enlightened is the state of the goal after second obscuration is overcome.

Midakpa

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2015, 02:23:28 PM »
Obscurations (Skt. avarana) are factors that cover and obscure our Buddha nature. There are two types: obscurations to liberation, and obscurations to omniscience. It is said that a Mahayana practitioner destroys both; a Hinayana practitioner destroys only the former.

The two obscurations are obstructions that hinder spiritual advancement and keep us in samsara. The obscurations to liberation (Tib. nyon sgrib, Skt. klesavarana) are delusions/defilements (desire, hatred and ignorance) which can multiply into many emotional states, and prevent us from achieving liberation/nirvana. The obscurations to omniscience (Tib. shes sgrib, Skt. jñeyavarana) are the imprints of delusions (e.g. wrong view such as seeing the world through the veil of duality) that prevent us from achieving full enlightenment.

yontenjamyang

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 01:25:15 AM »
Essentially these 2 obscurations needs the true practice of Wisdom to alleviate. That is the Wisdom of see Emptiness. The difference is that on the path of the Shravakas the motivation is self liberation and on the path of the Boddhisattva, the motivation is selflessness or others i.e. Boddhicitta.
So for the Mahayana practitioners the main practice is Boddhicitta; relative and later ultimate boddhicitta which is Wisdom. 

Rinchen

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 09:06:41 PM »
By the end of the day, the main reason that is hindering to our paths of enlightenment will ultimately be due to our unwillingness of mind transformation. When we do not change our views and points of perception, things cannot be done.

From this it means that we have to push ourselves harder in terms of things that we should be doing. Not only that we have to move out of our comfort zones, we have to continuously push ourselves further so that we will be able to achieve higher and do more.

The way that we have to push ourselves is to care more for others and not so much for ourselves. With that in mind, we will be able to get happiness from the joy that we see others have that we bring to them.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2015, 10:15:41 AM »
To revisit this post after a few months, I am happy to see the views contributed and makes it clear as to what our 2 obscurations. 

In a very simple manner to overcome these obscuration is to practise renunciation and bodhichitta.  In so doing we kill our ego and self cherishing habituation.

cookie

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2015, 10:59:33 AM »
These obscurations are hard to overcome because it is embedded deeply in us. They come from our IGNORANCE of its dangers and repercussions. They pile up from all past lives. As we continue to live whether in this life or future lives and still have not rid of these obscurations, we continue to feed on it and negative karma continues to multiply. The worse is we may not even be aware of this !
If we are so lucky as to have the merits to meet a Guru and the Dharma, we may have a chance to deal with it. Many of us have had such blessed opportunities, but how many can actually learn the Dharma correctly; how many can actual put it into real practice and transform ???
In this degenerate world I personally take the realistic view that most people will not be able to rid of these obscurations  :'( In our minds the tune that is playing every moment is "TOO DIFFICULT" TO PRACTICE !!

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 11:26:05 AM »
Dear Cookie, I totally agree with your observations how we avoid practice due to our ignorance.  To totally comprehend the purity of Dharma is definitely difficult.

One way we can help ourselves is to continue being in service to others with kindness and compassion.  In that way we may gain merits to progress.

My hope for human beings is based on my belief in Buddha's teaching that we can all achieve enlightenment. We need to do our best in this current lifetime. 

yontenjamyang

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2015, 02:41:22 AM »
Dear Cookie, I totally agree with your observations how we avoid practice due to our ignorance.  To totally comprehend the purity of Dharma is definitely difficult.

One way we can help ourselves is to continue being in service to others with kindness and compassion.  In that way we may gain merits to progress.

My hope for human beings is based on my belief in Buddha's teaching that we can all achieve enlightenment. We need to do our best in this current lifetime.

Personally, the way to gain conviction to the practice is to do Pujas simply because of the the efficacies in the blessings and purifications it provide. We can actually feel life is easier to accept, have better clarity and can do Dharma work better. Overtime, pujas is for me the supportive practice to Dharma work or any work like my daily dose of blessings.

eyesoftara

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Re: 2 Obscurations
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2015, 05:48:29 AM »
These obscurations are hard to overcome because it is embedded deeply in us. They come from our IGNORANCE of its dangers and repercussions. They pile up from all past lives. As we continue to live whether in this life or future lives and still have not rid of these obscurations, we continue to feed on it and negative karma continues to multiply. The worse is we may not even be aware of this !
If we are so lucky as to have the merits to meet a Guru and the Dharma, we may have a chance to deal with it. Many of us have had such blessed opportunities, but how many can actually learn the Dharma correctly; how many can actual put it into real practice and transform ???
In this degenerate world I personally take the realistic view that most people will not be able to rid of these obscurations  :'( In our minds the tune that is playing every moment is "TOO DIFFICULT" TO PRACTICE !!

The tunes that plays in our minds every moment ie the "TOO DIFFICULT TO PRACTICE" is very true and is consider one of the 3 laziness in the Lamrim. Nevertheless there are antidotes to this for eg contemplating on impermanence, death and suffering. Knowing that something is difficult applies not only to the Dharma but in almost everything is life. If we use this as an excuse, then the deeper reason is that we are not convince that we should renounce samsara and that samsara is not suffering and we do not really believe in karma.
So we should contemplate all these subjects well. We have been in samsara for countless eons and we have a deeply ingrained habituations of this laziness and others negative habits. Hence, no one is saying it is EASY. But because it is not EASY and is DIFFICULT that makes it precisely the reason that we should break it but in steps. Yes, in steps.Just commit and improve. Perhaps, 2 steps forward, 1 step back as a start.