Author Topic: Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's personal Dorje Shugden statue  (Read 10002 times)

vajratruth

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Re: Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's personal Dorje Shugden statue
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 10:31:37 PM »
Here is what Thubten Jinpa had to say in 1997 in the forward about the Yellow Book:

...Also included in this volume is the controversial work which later became known as "The Yellow Book". Written as a somewhat stylized literary piece, this work is a faithful recording of events relating to what could be perhaps described as the "oral history" of a particular period of Tibet.

Geshe Thupten Jinpa is the Dalai Lama's personal translator and to be that one has to be a master of the Dharma himself, not to mention, be highly trusted by the Dalai Lama. Wherever the Dalai Lama is, Thupten Jinpa is always close by. It is interesting that even as the Dalai Lama banned Zemey Rinpoche from His Holiness's close circle and literally treated him as persona non grata, it was Thupten Jinpa, the very close disciple of Zemey Rinpoche whom the Dalai Lama kept by his side all the time.

Some thought that perhaps Thupten Jinpa "changed sides" but this is not so because recently he was spotted visiting and make prostrations to the throne of his Guru, the great Zemey Rinpoche. Surprisingly, this must have been known by the Dalai Lama and yet there was no rebuke from His Holiness. Thupten Jinpa remained loyal and devoted to Zemey Rinpoche all these years and witnessed his Guru being ousted and disparaged by the Dalai Lama and yet under instructions from Zemey Rinpoche, he served the Dalai Lama with true loyalty. A lot of things do not make sense to the untrained eye.

Similarly, we see the Dalai Lama banning the practice of Dorje Shugden that was given to His Holiness by his Guru, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. Even as the Dalai Lama seemed to have turned against his Guru (as Thupten Jinpa appeared to as well) and even to the point of saying that his Guru was "wrong", Trijang Rinpoche from the start had advised all to keep trusting and supporting the Dalai Lama.

The Buddhas certainly work in mysterious ways.

Ensapa

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Re: Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's personal Dorje Shugden statue
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 03:51:41 AM »
Here is what Thubten Jinpa had to say in 1997 in the forward about the Yellow Book:

...Also included in this volume is the controversial work which later became known as "The Yellow Book". Written as a somewhat stylized literary piece, this work is a faithful recording of events relating to what could be perhaps described as the "oral history" of a particular period of Tibet.

Geshe Thupten Jinpa is the Dalai Lama's personal translator and to be that one has to be a master of the Dharma himself, not to mention, be highly trusted by the Dalai Lama. Wherever the Dalai Lama is, Thupten Jinpa is always close by. It is interesting that even as the Dalai Lama banned Zemey Rinpoche from His Holiness's close circle and literally treated him as persona non grata, it was Thupten Jinpa, the very close disciple of Zemey Rinpoche whom the Dalai Lama kept by his side all the time.

Some thought that perhaps Thupten Jinpa "changed sides" but this is not so because recently he was spotted visiting and make prostrations to the throne of his Guru, the great Zemey Rinpoche. Surprisingly, this must have been known by the Dalai Lama and yet there was no rebuke from His Holiness. Thupten Jinpa remained loyal and devoted to Zemey Rinpoche all these years and witnessed his Guru being ousted and disparaged by the Dalai Lama and yet under instructions from Zemey Rinpoche, he served the Dalai Lama with true loyalty. A lot of things do not make sense to the untrained eye.

Similarly, we see the Dalai Lama banning the practice of Dorje Shugden that was given to His Holiness by his Guru, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. Even as the Dalai Lama seemed to have turned against his Guru (as Thupten Jinpa appeared to as well) and even to the point of saying that his Guru was "wrong", Trijang Rinpoche from the start had advised all to keep trusting and supporting the Dalai Lama.

The Buddhas certainly work in mysterious ways.

I beg to differ. The Yellow Book was translated/recorded in a way that would plant misunderstandings in the minds of people who are not familiar with the Dharma. If I did not know any better, after reading the Yellow Book I would have thought that Dorje Shugden is indeed sectarian and he is indeed a very stern and fearsome Dharma protector and if I practice him I cannot even have interest in other traditions at all or else my life would be in danger but after explanations, study, understanding and having a Guru to guide me, i realize that either that this book was not meant to be published outside of Zemey Rinpoche's circle of disciples because many things written in the book expects the reader to understand the basics of Gelug or that it was written in a way to plant misunderstandings in the minds of others. Either one of the two.

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's personal Dorje Shugden statue
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 04:06:52 AM »
One point I think is important to keep in mind.

'Oral literature' and 'oral histories' are genres that often is misunderstood.
Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche was very famous for writing 'oral literature', even though that genre was very rare to be included in the collected works of a high lama. One half of volume 6 of Rinpoche's collected works contains 4 anthologies of 'oral literature'.

I think one of the keys to understanding The Yellow Book is to understand the place of 'oral literature' and 'oral history' within the context of the tradition.



Ensapa

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Re: Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's personal Dorje Shugden statue
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 04:42:02 AM »
One point I think is important to keep in mind.

'Oral literature' and 'oral histories' are genres that often is misunderstood.
Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche was very famous for writing 'oral literature', even though that genre was very rare to be included in the collected works of a high lama. One half of volume 6 of Rinpoche's collected works contains 4 anthologies of 'oral literature'.

I think one of the keys to understanding The Yellow Book is to understand the place of 'oral literature' and 'oral history' within the context of the tradition.

I do agree with this as well.  But why is it that only the Yellow Book was widely published, and not only that, it was within access of people who was not supposed to read it. How and why did this happen is beyond me, but one thing that I do know is that the Dalai Lama got a copy of it and a few others did, and not long after a copy was circulating on the internet and many people soon misunderstood this text and think that Dorje Shugden is dangerous or sectarian. We had several threads here discussing about the Yellow Book before, but within context and tradition and it sounds fine and not sectarian at all.

But I can imagine a newbie reading it and getting terrified. That is very possible, so the responsibility of people being misled by the Yellow Book falls on the shoulders of the people who made it widely available when it is not meant for a wide audience.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's personal Dorje Shugden statue
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 11:56:28 PM »
The fact that the Dalai Lama didn't pick on the Yellow Book immediately shows that the Dalai Lama actually understood why it was written like that. Surely he would, otherwise he would not be Chenrezig!! If little old me can understand it, how can the Buddha himself be misguided. Like Losang Tenpa said earlier, distribution was meant to be limited and i presume that one of the reasons was that it was not meant to be for public domain precisely so people do not misunderstand.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Ensapa

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Re: Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's personal Dorje Shugden statue
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2013, 04:05:48 AM »
The fact that the Dalai Lama didn't pick on the Yellow Book immediately shows that the Dalai Lama actually understood why it was written like that. Surely he would, otherwise he would not be Chenrezig!! If little old me can understand it, how can the Buddha himself be misguided. Like Losang Tenpa said earlier, distribution was meant to be limited and i presume that one of the reasons was that it was not meant to be for public domain precisely so people do not misunderstand.

He only picked on it after the book's distribution went public and when people of other traditions who chanced on the book became terrified and misunderstandings started to happen. So perhaps the ban was to pacify the other 3 traditions so that they will not misunderstand and they will not make a big deal out of it or feel insecure because after all during the 5th Dalai Lama's time, the Karma Kagyu and Jonang tradition was suppressed and many of its followers massacred and monasteries forcibly converted  into Gelug so it is fair that these traditions feel insecure with their own establishments, lest the Dalai Lama swallow their tradition whole again like what has been done during the 5th Dalai Lama's time. But in banning Dorje Shugden, a lot of causalities also happened along the way...