Author Topic: Death-threat for freedom of speech  (Read 7464 times)

Shugden Library

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • Followers of Dorje Shugden
Death-threat for freedom of speech
« on: October 14, 2014, 08:21:04 AM »
This was sent to a pro-Shugden Twitter account. Part of the image is a letter was from the Tibetan Youth Congress. Truly shameful!

yontenjamyang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
    • Email
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2014, 09:34:00 AM »
Devil's cult or not, the Dalai Lama and the CTA and by extension the TYC can and should show more compassion.  Freedom is freedom and if you believe the Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. So why this silliness and causing harm and sufferings to millions who believe otherwise?
I personally take Dorje Shugden as Manjushri. So am I a devil worshipper? I have not seen the devil in any of Buddhism's deities; only the Maras or the devils of our delusions manifesting daily to cause harm to self and others. How do we know? Because we can see then harm that it does to others.
If the Dalai Lama, CTA and the TYC see harm that the ban is doing to others, than we can say they can see the devil. So we must ask why do they continue to uphold this harm and by default the devils?
Please lift the ban, ask at least part of the entourages of devils will be destroyed.

DharmaSpace

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2014, 05:46:27 PM »
If Dorje Shugden was indeed the devil incarnate why can't buddhist rituals dispel a mere spirit?

Does that means the buddhist masters in the Tibetan traditions do not have realisation of emptiness? If they had that surely it would be that easy to dispel a spirit. As how can a spirit hold a candle towards beings who have tasted the ultimate truth. Such proclamations put down Buddhism and buddhist teachers and tell the whole world that Buddhism is not based on the truth which is incorrect.
 

Blueupali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
    • Email
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 02:08:36 AM »
if you believe the Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. So why this silliness and causing harm and sufferings to millions who believe otherwise?
I personally take Dorje Shugden as Manjushri.

Totally logical  :)  Unfortunately the CTA/the DL's students in many cases, etc., do not really seem to have much grasp of logic, or compassion either. :o

eyesoftara

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 04:14:26 AM »
So now we have the "followers" of Avalokitesvara giving death threats to the pure followers of Manjushri because they claim that Manjushri is causing harm and even the life of Avalokitesvara. That is because Avalokitesvara said so.
So we must ask. Why would Avalokitesvara make such a ridiculous claim, albeit denying the Protector Dorje Shugden is Manjushri; even though many high Lamas and even the Dalai Lama's own teachers practice the Protector? We must also ask, why would the Dalai Lama's own followers take it literally the words of the Dalai Lama and more importantly as buddhist, why would these followers go on to persecute the followers of the Protector who is one with Manjushri?

These questions begs to be asked!!

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 04:17:43 AM »
if you believe the Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. So why this silliness and causing harm and sufferings to millions who believe otherwise?
I personally take Dorje Shugden as Manjushri.

Totally logical  :)  Unfortunately the CTA/the DL's students in many cases, etc., do not really seem to have much grasp of logic, or compassion either. :o

We simply must learn to have compassion for those who are intellectually challenged. Sigh.  ::)
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

grandmapele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 647
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2014, 04:20:25 AM »
This is so wrong on so many levels. From a secular point of view, there is such a thing as freedom of worship and basic human rights. From a spiritual point of view, there is compassion and universal love. In Buddhism there is belief in non-violence and ‘cause and effect”. Buddhists are taught to be kind to animals and insects and reptiles, in fact, to all sentient beings.
In fact, there was taught that Buddha himself in one of his many lives, was a sea captain who had to kill a pirate to save his many passengers, fell to the lower realms for the deed. The intention was good, the deed was bad. How so, now with the death threat from the Tibetan youth Congress? May these poor innocent youths spend their time in prayers and atonement so that their heavy negative karma do not manifests so soon.

fruven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 659
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2014, 12:53:54 AM »
Devil's cult or not, the Dalai Lama and the CTA and by extension the TYC can and should show more compassion.  Freedom is freedom and if you believe the Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. So why this silliness and causing harm and sufferings to millions who believe otherwise?
I personally take Dorje Shugden as Manjushri. So am I a devil worshipper? I have not seen the devil in any of Buddhism's deities; only the Maras or the devils of our delusions manifesting daily to cause harm to self and others. How do we know? Because we can see then harm that it does to others.
If the Dalai Lama, CTA and the TYC see harm that the ban is doing to others, than we can say they can see the devil. So we must ask why do they continue to uphold this harm and by default the devils?
Please lift the ban, ask at least part of the entourages of devils will be destroyed.

Frankly speaking those people who oppose Shugden are not innocent and saint. Hiding behind the fame of Dalai Lama they are not hesitate to harm, injure and discriminate Shugden practitioners. By their actions it shows that they have no confidence of Buddha teachings and instead chosen to do the opposite.

Blueupali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
    • Email
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2014, 06:36:01 AM »
Devil's cult or not, the Dalai Lama and the CTA and by extension the TYC can and should show more compassion.  Freedom is freedom and if you believe the Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. So why this silliness and causing harm and sufferings to millions who believe otherwise?
I personally take Dorje Shugden as Manjushri. So am I a devil worshipper? I have not seen the devil in any of Buddhism's deities; only the Maras or the devils of our delusions manifesting daily to cause harm to self and others. How do we know? Because we can see then harm that it does to others.
If the Dalai Lama, CTA and the TYC see harm that the ban is doing to others, than we can say they can see the devil. So we must ask why do they continue to uphold this harm and by default the devils?
Please lift the ban, ask at least part of the entourages of devils will be destroyed.

Frankly speaking those people who oppose Shugden are not innocent and saint. Hiding behind the fame of Dalai Lama they are not hesitate to harm, injure and discriminate Shugden practitioners. By their actions it shows that they have no confidence of Buddha teachings and instead chosen to do the opposite.
[/color]
Here, here.  Yes, I do actually get quite tired of the rhetoric about how shouldn't we look for middle ground with the Dalai Lama on his position.... there are times when someone's behavior isn't like faultless and it's not like both sides are equally misunderstanding each other.  Like, if someone wants to mediate between Hitler and the Jews in the concentration camps saying they both need to see each other's side.  Oh?  Well that guy sent the s.s. to my house and put me in here and now they are taking people to the gas chambers.... oh, well... I am sure his perspective is that you should die and yours is that maybe you should live... like what kind of compromise would be possible there?  I was sleeping in my house and someone kidnapped my entire neighborhood and took us to be tortured and killed?  Do you see what I mean?  He is entirely beyond the pale wrong and I will not pretend this man is anything like a Buddha (though he does have the seed, and may he become a Buddha soon).

sandra

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • Email
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2014, 02:46:39 PM »
 I like this statement very much "if you believe Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. This is very logic. If Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he don't have any karma be harmed. So, Dalai Lama followers should contemplate on this statement, be a rational and wise Buddhism practitioners, don't ever just follow blindly and further create anymore unnecessary bad karma. We should ask and check further before action that being a true Buddhism practitioners.

dondrup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2014, 06:34:44 AM »
"Tibet" who tweeted this had so much animosity toward Dorje Shugden and His followers.  What had become of his or her compassion and love of all beings? You will never become liberated or enlightened because you had discriminated Dorje Shugden followers. If Dorje Shugden was really a "devil", you won't even dare face the wrath of Him! A devil would have hunted for you for disparaging him! The reality is Dorje Shugden is Buddha Manjushri and Dorje Shugden followers merely want religious freedom.  If anti-Shugden people continue to generate hatred against Dorje Shugden practitioners, they are creating causes for their own sufferings in the future! For your own sake, anti-Shugden people, please stop harming yourselves! OM BENZA WIKI BITTANA SOHA

pgdharma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2014, 03:45:11 PM »
if you believe the Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. So why this silliness and causing harm and sufferings to millions who believe otherwise?

Totally agreed with you Yontenjamyang. It is so logical but not to the CTA who prefer not to accept the truth but prefer to remain silly and created so much hardship and sufferings to the DS practitioners.

kelly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 07:40:55 AM »
This is illogical freedom of speech is a basic human right, what more this thing happen in the Buddhist world if we call ourselves buddhist then we should hold our vows , practice kindness and tolerance is important as a Buddhist. Violence is also not permitted in our practice peace is what we practice.

Clifford.Khong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Death-threat for freedom of speech
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2015, 10:53:55 AM »
It is sad when you see Tibet fighting for freedom of their own country when they continue to disparage and ostracize their own people just merely because of their Dorje Shugden practice. As mere Buddhist we have been taught to show acceptance, tolerance, kindness and compassion towards others. We see HHDL visiting mosques for Muslims, churches for Christians, Jewish temples for Jews, etc when their own brothers and sisters who practice Buddhism but follow a different protector we are put down for and banned from practice. What happened to simple basic human rights and Religious Freedom? What happened to basic common Buddhist ethics of love and acceptance?

Freedom is freedom and if you believe the Dalai Lama is Avalokitesvara, he can never be harmed. So why this silliness and causing harm and sufferings to millions who believe otherwise?

HHDL is indeed Avalokitesvara, if every follower of HHDL wants to stop Dorje Shugden why physically harm, threaten and oppress Dorje Shugden followers? Why not setup puja's or rituals to attempt to dispel Dorje Shugden? Even HHDL, Avalokitesvara cannot dispel or stop Dorje Shugden? As practicing Buddhist and devotees of HHDL who preaches love, compassion, kindess and acceptance why don't, with the love for your own brothers and sisters, setup debates with Dorje Shugden practitioners? Why fight physically rather than use logical reasoning to win them over?

So now we have the "followers" of Avalokitesvara giving death threats to the pure followers of Manjushri because they claim that Manjushri is causing harm and even the life of Avalokitesvara. That is because Avalokitesvara said so.
So we must ask. Why would Avalokitesvara make such a ridiculous claim, albeit denying the Protector Dorje Shugden is Manjushri; even though many high Lamas and even the Dalai Lama's own teachers practice the Protector? We must also ask, why would the Dalai Lama's own followers take it literally the words of the Dalai Lama and more importantly as buddhist, why would these followers go on to persecute the followers of the Protector who is one with Manjushri?

These questions begs to be asked!!

Rumours, controversy and anything negative comments spreads like wild fire as compared to anything good. Everyone hears and remembers better from negative circumstances, with the compassion of HHDL who risks his own reputation has placed the banned to increase the awareness and knowledge of Dorje Shugden because he himself used to practice Dorje Shugden, he himself was saved by Dorje Shugden, his teachers passed down the teachings and practices to him.

You have to understand one of the main goals which has always been for HHDL is to spread the dharma and every action he has taken was because of that. There is a higher meaning towards this ban than merely to stop people from practicing this ban, because with HHDL as an emanation of Avalokitesvara could've easily dispelled the deemed "spirit" of Dorje Shugden many years ago if he wanted to. But no one can "dispel" an enlightened being and people should come to realize that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit.

Any great Lama, great teacher, great simple monk would know and understand the importance of Guru Devotion and I know HHDL would not go against his own teachers without a good reason. How can HHDL followers say his teachers were wrong and his holiness is right?

In fact, there was taught that Buddha himself in one of his many lives, was a sea captain who had to kill a pirate to save his many passengers, fell to the lower realms for the deed. The intention was good, the deed was bad. How so, now with the death threat from the Tibetan youth Congress? May these poor innocent youths spend their time in prayers and atonement so that their heavy negative karma do not manifests so soon.

The reason why Buddha Shakyamuni could do it is because he was an enlightened being himself, it was said when he passed he suffered in the lower realms for just a second. I worry for all these TYC members threatening Dorje Shugden followers because they do not have the Karma to sustain a good rebirth. If they wanted to stop Dorje Shugden followers from practicing they should be trying to use their own logic, knowledge and reasoning. Not mask the fame of HHDL and act as spiritual police to do what ever they want. How does that reflect on Buddhism to other people and to the world? How does this reflect as students of HHDL? These people will soon reap the effects of having harmed so many people just because of their differences in practice and worship.

To defeat darkness you need to shine the light. Is harming, killing, oppressing Dorje Shugden followers the right way? Violence should not be in the context of action of any practicing Buddhist. I respect HHDL a great deal for his great efforts in bringing Buddhism to the west but I wish he would finally lift the ban for the practice of Dorje Shugden and stop the disharmony amongst the Buddhist community. I will not give up my practice for Dorje Shugden, death threats would not sway my beliefs and practice because I know I am still a good person despite what I practice and I do not harm anyone in the process of it.