Author Topic: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE  (Read 16095 times)

Big Uncle

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2010, 05:10:43 AM »
Hey guys,

Did you guys know why, out of all the Dharma Protectors, Setrap came to assist Dorje Shugden and also currently  abides on the upper floor of Dorje Shugden's celestial mansion?

Well, when Dorje Shugden was in his previous incarnation as Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, one of his main Dharma Protectors that he propitiated was Setrap. Hence, due to this connection, Setrap came to his assistance and also enthrone the  Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's spirit as a Dharma Protector. (spirit is just a convention as a Lama doesn't have the karma to be reborn as a spirit) Therefore, it is said that when we propitiate Dorje Shugden, his 'older brother' will also be by his side.
 

WisdomBeing

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2010, 04:13:45 PM »
I was looking at Dorje Shugden's kawang and Setrap's kawang and noticed that they are quite similar. Are all kawangs similar in structure or these two have an unusual similarity?

I have not seen other Dharma Protector's kawangs so don't have anything to compare with.

Thanks..

KAWANG OF DORJE SHUGDEN
HUM !
Heart’s blood drinking offerings set out like the flow of the Ganges,
Flowers of the sense organs blossoming and clouds of smoke gathering,
Human bile perfume, flesh and blood, and the sound of thigh bone trumpets,
Please accept these as well as an ocean of undefiled nectar!
Also sensual objects and the seven royal objects,
The intelligent horse, elephants, frightful yaks, sheep, and dogs,
Saffron robes, strong, hard armour and shields,
Arrows, spears, swords, and outer, inner, and secret bases,
With these clouds of offerings, both supramundane and worldly,
O Dorje Shugden and all your wrathful entourage,
May your heart commitment be fulfilled and degeneration restored!
Especially, each accumulated faulty deed of body, speech and mind
We have committed under the influence of ignorance,
Which goes against your mind, protector,
We confess with a mind of remorse and regret.
Furthermore, transgressions of our commitments to the protector
And entourage, neglect or degeneration of retreat practice,
Tormas, offerings, and so on,
We practitioners confess all of these
Within the unobjectifiable emptiness of the three spheres.


Kanshag or Kawang of Setrap
(Composed by His Holiness the 5th Dalai Lama)

An ocean of blood stirred by waves
Flowers of sense organs stacked in mounds
Smoke of burnt flesh gathered like clouds
Lamp of melted human fat, bright as the sun
Perfume of human grease filling vessels
Food to eat of flesh and bones
Various music thundering like a thousand dragons
Sturdy hard vajra armor which protects life
Various weapons which destroy enemies
Clever horse which traverse the billion worlds
Wish fulfilling cow bearing a stream of milk
Baboons, monkeys, cat and cocks
Goats, sheep, drong, yaks, elephants, lions and tigers
A mountain of torma soaring to the sky
Swirling lake of tea and beer to drink
Mount Sumeru, four lands, sun and moon
The seven royal objects and five senses
Thus, all wealth of humans and devas
Actually arranged and mentally envisioned
And blessed into a sky treasure, wih this
May Setrap Chen’s heart commitments be fulfilled
May the six emanations’ heart commitments be fulfulled
May the infinite entourage’s heart commitments be fulfilled
May you fulfill commitments and restore degeneration!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

beggar

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2010, 04:03:26 AM »

Hey guys,

Did you guys know why, out of all the Dharma Protectors, Setrap came to assist Dorje Shugden and also currently  abides on the upper floor of Dorje Shugden's celestial mansion?

Well, when Dorje Shugden was in his previous incarnation as Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, one of his main Dharma Protectors that he propitiated was Setrap. Hence, due to this connection, Setrap came to his assistance and also enthrone the  Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's spirit as a Dharma Protector. (spirit is just a convention as a Lama doesn't have the karma to be reborn as a spirit) Therefore, it is said that when we propitiate Dorje Shugden, his 'older brother' will also be by his side.
 

'

Always inspiring and very beautiful to hear how closely the buddha work together.

Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen also relied strongly on Four-faced Mahakala. Biographical thangkas of TDG would portray both Setrap and FF-Mahakala alongside him and Dorje shugden is known to be very close to be both Setrpa and four-faced Mahakala.

DSFriend

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2010, 06:01:52 PM »
Talking about how close the buddhas work together..

It has been so many lifetimes of relationship/connection between Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. Of all the many protectors, why did Dalai Lama specifically "pick" on Dorje Shugden. Dalai Lama wrote praises, persecuted him, engaged in the practice, stopped the practice, put ban on him and so forth..Well, what Dalai Lama is doing has certainly stirred interests in MANY.

Vajraprotector

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2010, 10:34:51 PM »
Talking about how close the buddhas work together..

It has been so many lifetimes of relationship/connection between Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. Of all the many protectors, why did Dalai Lama specifically "pick" on Dorje Shugden. Dalai Lama wrote praises, persecuted him, engaged in the practice, stopped the practice, put ban on him and so forth..Well, what Dalai Lama is doing has certainly stirred interests in MANY.

A few more points that assured me that these enlightened beings are working together, and it's true, why is it that Dalai Lama picked Shugden only- it doesnt make sense.

1. Why was it that "the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, with an aspect of being disturbed, went to Sangpu Monastery and delivered a reprimanding address to Setrab in a very terrifying manner" and never condemned Setrab for rescuing "evil spirit" when Dalai Lama was so sure that Shugden WAS an evil spirit at that time?

2. Why was it that Setrab, who is seen as an enlightened Dharma Protector would ethroned Shugden if he was an evil spirit?

3. Why is it that the Great Fifth, an enlightened being can enthroned and write praises to such a protector (perhaps from his visions) and then deny what he has written- we are talking about Dharma and rituals, not his "secular" decisions which he could portray his 'mistakes' or faults.



Helena

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2010, 06:09:41 AM »
Good valid points, Vajraprotect.

Ordinary beings like us will only see ordinary actions and words because we have no attainments to perceive Enlightened Beings as they truly are. Buddhas could be standing infront of us, and we will not view them as such. That is, sad to say, our greatest loss and hindrance while in samsara.

Hence, the "great display of actions" between High Lamas and Enlightened Beings may confuse many people as we would always end up using our own 'ordinary' perception and judgement.

To me, all Enlightened Beings and Buddhas - no matter who they are - will always work together because they are all united in one common divine goal and motivated by a single love of kindness to help others. How can Chenrezig not be friends with Manjushri, or how can Yamantaka only side with Amitabha? Does not make sense, does it? They are all one and the same - just "dressed up" in "different attire" for our different preferences/minds.

Hence, it does not surprise me to find that Setrap is close to Dorje Shugden or Yamantaka is close to Dorje Shugden. Both Setrap and Yamantaka were Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's personal Protectors before TDG arose as Dorje Shugden.

All things in samsara, is part of a grand illusory play for the minds of ordinary beings to achieve certain realizations. Hence, the Buddhas and Enlightened Beings will work in ways that will bring about the greatest benefit to us.

Hopefully, we all have the merits and karma to open our minds to actually learn and understand.
Helena

WisdomBeing

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2010, 07:39:49 AM »
Talking about how close the buddhas work together..

It has been so many lifetimes of relationship/connection between Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. Of all the many protectors, why did Dalai Lama specifically "pick" on Dorje Shugden. Dalai Lama wrote praises, persecuted him, engaged in the practice, stopped the practice, put ban on him and so forth..Well, what Dalai Lama is doing has certainly stirred interests in MANY.

A few more points that assured me that these enlightened beings are working together, and it's true, why is it that Dalai Lama picked Shugden only- it doesnt make sense.

1. Why was it that "the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, with an aspect of being disturbed, went to Sangpu Monastery and delivered a reprimanding address to Setrab in a very terrifying manner" and never condemned Setrab for rescuing "evil spirit" when Dalai Lama was so sure that Shugden WAS an evil spirit at that time?

2. Why was it that Setrab, who is seen as an enlightened Dharma Protector would ethroned Shugden if he was an evil spirit?

3. Why is it that the Great Fifth, an enlightened being can enthroned and write praises to such a protector (perhaps from his visions) and then deny what he has written- we are talking about Dharma and rituals, not his "secular" decisions which he could portray his 'mistakes' or faults.


Vajraprotector, you've raised interesting points regarding the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Setrab. I'm curious why Setrab had to manifest that he rescued Dorje Shugden. Surely Dorje Shugden, being enlightened, would have been able to escape by himself without assistance?

Re the third question about the 5th Dalai Lama denying what he wrote - i had thought that the 5th Dalai Lama had first accused DS of being a spirit, then realised he wasn't, and only then wrote praises and built Trode Khangsar. I wasn't aware that he had denied what he written. Can you please clarify?

Thank you.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

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Re: DORJE SHUGDEN IS NOT HARMED BY WRATHFUL RITUALS - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2010, 05:44:03 PM »

Vajraprotector, you've raised interesting points regarding the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Setrab. I'm curious why Setrab had to manifest that he rescued Dorje Shugden. Surely Dorje Shugden, being enlightened, would have been able to escape by himself without assistance?


I think the act of Setrab manifesting that he rescued Dorje Shugden is to validate and prove that DS is NOT an evil spirit but actually one of the same enlightened level and nature as Setrab himself (who has already been recognised as a fully enlightened being of course).

High Lamas with clairvoyance would have been able to see Setrab coming to "rescue" Dorje Shugden and thereby relate it to others who didn't have clairvoyance or conviction to recognise DS as a spirit. So "seeing" this, they would have been able to create a firm link in the minds of others that Setrab and Shugden are very close, and therefore Shugden is NOT merely some worldly being.

LosangKhyentse

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If Shugden was an evil spirit, he should have been subdued by the powerful rituals of so many lamas for the past 350 years. Yet he remains 'unsubdued'.

If he is a Buddha, naturally no rituals can subdue him done by any lamas. From this we can easily conclude if he is a spirit or a Buddha.

TK

Helena

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Good point, TK - simple and direct.

As Dorje Shugden is a Buddha, he also cannot bring harm to those who practice him. None of the high Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden in the past have gone to the three lower realms when they have passed on. In fact, all of them are returning as we speak.

Helena

Gabby Potter

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Of course Dorje Shugden cannot be harmed by wrathful rituals because He is an enlightened Buddha, how can a Buddha be harmed? He doesn't have the karma to be harmed, no way.