Author Topic: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden  (Read 8492 times)

Namdrol

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44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« on: April 06, 2012, 10:22:06 AM »
This is taken from the official FPMT website itself, out of the 25 teachers listed, 11 practise or had practised Dorje Shugden, 11 out of 25 is quite a high percentage no? 44% of the teachers can be wrong? Why is FPMT the strongest attacker of Dorje Shugden today while 44% of their lineage lamas are/were Dorje Shugden practitioners?

Teachers from the list who practise or had practised Dorje Shugden: Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Zong Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, HH Serkong Dorje Chang, Tsenshab Serkong Rinpoche, Geshe Rabten Rinpoche, Zimmey Rinpoche, Choden Rinpoche, HH Sakya Trizin, Ribur Rinpoche

LosangKhyentse

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 10:28:55 AM »
Namdrol,

This is an excellent observation. How can 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers be wrong?

What you have stated here goes for most Gelug Lamas and the percentage of their lamas practicing Dorje Shugden would be even higher. 

TK

tsangpakarpo

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 11:04:04 AM »
I am going to state the obvious here...EVEN the Dalai Lama practiced Dorje Shugden before. Whether or not He is still practicing, I don't know and cannot judge. But I believe He is. and because of that, I believe Lama Zopa practices Dorje Shugden also.

Some things are just so obvious. The facts are all there but some people just can't accept it that Dorje Shugden has been practiced for so many years now and His practice is growing tremendously at this point of time. In 4-5 years, more and more people will start practicing Dorje Shugden for sure. So if you are practicing now, I would say, DON'T GIVE UP. Times might be a little harder now but when the time comes where the ban is lifted or not in effect anymore, Dorje Shugden will be the biggest and most worshiped Dharma Protector in the world.

We should all start thinking out of the box. Contemplate on why certain High Lamas speak and act against Dorje Shugden. Are they doing it for a higher purpose and out of our ability to understand right now? and so why are they doing this for? All the details and facts are within this website and forum. We just need to spend a little time to read.

One very good example, Dorje Shugden is growing big in China now..thanks to the Dalai Lama who spoke against Dorje Shugden. China does everything that opposes the Dalai Lama. Because of this, they are fortunate to be practicing Dorje Shugden!Over a billion citizens live in China, don't you think that China is a great place for the growth of Dorje Shugden?

Thank you Namdrol for bringing this out!

Tenzin K

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 04:44:29 PM »
Love this fact!

What other proof that can state Lord Shugden practices is wrong where the Great Masters have been practicing it continuously from live after live. The fact of the 11 Great Master that practicing from FPMT had shown it all. The Great Master will not be wrong as their reincarnation keep coming back and being recognized unmistaken. The number of practitioner and the centres are growing and this can never be wrong. How can it be bad but the centre and the practitioner keeping on expanding? Obvious answer!

Totally agree with tsangpakarpo, they are reason for other Great Masters that against the practice but they are from the same linage and Guru. We should think further and analyze the result of the rejection because Lord Shugden practice doesn’t just slow down or swipe away after the ban. It’s grow bigger and faster…..something for us to think about.

Ensapa

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 06:55:31 PM »
And those people from other lineages dare tell people to not go to any Lama that is tainted with Dorje Shugden. Well, it seems that a large number of Gelug Lamas are "tainted" by Dorje Shugden. In fact, all of the current generation of Gelug lamas are "tainted" by Dorje Shugden's practices. In essence, that statement means nothing more than saying GELUG IS BAD.

So, why are they saying such statements when they know very well that proper lamas cannot be tainted by anything, even if Dorje Shugden was evil this does not make the lamas who practice him as evil or bad. Assuming that Dorje Shudgen really is evil, and practicing Dorje Shugden makes you evil no matter what an accomplished you are, does it mean that there is NO Dharma practice in this world that is permanent and enlightenment is completely reversible.

If you have friends from other lineages, you will hear them say that their Lamas forbade them to talk to centers that are affiliated with Dorje Shugden or even anyone who has received teachings from a DS lama. what is interesting is, there is a dont ask dont tell policy in place. Nobody is allowed to even mention Dorje Shugden's name! So nobody can ask why or find out the reason behind the fear.

Are these lamas sectarian, or are they just using skillful means to prevent their disciples from mixing and matching and from destroying their own attainments? I do not know, but one thing for sure it is odd to see Lama Zopa having Sakya Gurus as they would have been equally against Dorje Shugden.

Big Uncle

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 12:52:33 AM »
You know, I think this is clear representation of over 90% of the Gelug teachers obviously practice Dorje Shugden. I think that it is due to politics and the ban that compels most of the Lamas to hide their practice. Only a few courageous Lamas would dare to reveal their true practice.

As long as the ban is in place, many of these Lamas would have to continue to hide their practice because they risk their students practice and probably their own samaya with the Dalai Lama. I am sure the CTA knows this but why to they want to keep and maintain the ban when they have the power to do something about it.

DharmaSpace

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 12:17:44 PM »
Yes 90% or even higher would be a correct figure that the gelugpa masters practice dorje shugden.  Who was not a student of Phabongka Dorje Chang or Trijang Dorje Chang and these these two heavy weights of the Gelug hierarchy they definitely will share this powerful practice with their students. No doubt about it.

If one's organisation was built up through work and dedication of the Gelugpa lamas, shouldn't FPMT be grateful for what these lamas stood for and believed. These lamas believed Dorje Shudgen is a enlightened protector that can bring so much benefit to so many people and beings. Where is the gratitude?

DharmaDefender

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 02:33:16 PM »
Yes 90% or even higher would be a correct figure that the gelugpa masters practice dorje shugden.  Who was not a student of Phabongka Dorje Chang or Trijang Dorje Chang and these these two heavy weights of the Gelug hierarchy they definitely will share this powerful practice with their students. No doubt about it.

If one's organisation was built up through work and dedication of the Gelugpa lamas, shouldn't FPMT be grateful for what these lamas stood for and believed. These lamas believed Dorje Shudgen is a enlightened protector that can bring so much benefit to so many people and beings. Where is the gratitude?

I dont think gratitude figures high on the list of FPMTs priorities. Okay yes Im being harsh - every organisation has its bad apples and perhaps for the sincere FPMT practitioners, yes they practice gratitude.

But for sure the official line of the organisation seems to be hypocrisy. How can you criticise the person did so much to propagate the Lamrim, then study the same Lamrim he taught and expect to gain realisations? Just doesnt make sense, especially if (according to pandits like Ashvagosha) guru devotion is supposed to be the root of all attainments. Wheres the guru devotion in stabbing your Lama's lama in the back?

Its not that Dorje Shugden is all-powerful and makes his centres like NKT grow because of magic. Its because the majority of NKT centres really are devoted to their lama Geshela and follow his teachings to a T, and FPMT centres have chosen to be selective with their Lama Yeshes instructions.

dondrup

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 06:50:55 PM »
What happened to the 56% of Lama Zopa’s teachers who had practised but had abandoned Dorje Shugden (DS) after the ban?  No, I do not believe these lamas had actually abandoned DS though they appeared to be so.  Obviously these lamas are practising secretly.  It is impossible and illogical for these lamas to abandon DS.  If these lamas had abandoned DS practice, then they do not qualify to be lamas!  What kind of guru devotion and examples are these lamas showing to their students?  I would like to believe these lamas who had abandoned DS are in the same predicament as HH Dalai Lama.  They had acted this way for the “greater purpose”.  Just look at the example of Samdhong Rinpoche the previous Kalon Tripa of CTA!

LosangKhyentse

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2012, 08:22:17 PM »
What happened to the 56% of Lama Zopa’s teachers who had practised but had abandoned Dorje Shugden (DS) after the ban?  No, I do not believe these lamas had actually abandoned DS though they appeared to be so.  Obviously these lamas are practising secretly.  It is impossible and illogical for these lamas to abandon DS.  If these lamas had abandoned DS practice, then they do not qualify to be lamas!  What kind of guru devotion and examples are these lamas showing to their students?  I would like to believe these lamas who had abandoned DS are in the same predicament as HH Dalai Lama.  They had acted this way for the “greater purpose”.  Just look at the example of Samdhong Rinpoche the previous Kalon Tripa of CTA!

I tend to agree with you the most part of what your saying here.

Then there are lamas who have never practiced Shugden and also have no issues either.

TK

thor

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 09:52:06 AM »
This is taken from the official FPMT website itself, out of the 25 teachers listed, 11 practise or had practised Dorje Shugden, 11 out of 25 is quite a high percentage no? 44% of the teachers can be wrong? Why is FPMT the strongest attacker of Dorje Shugden today while 44% of their lineage lamas are/were Dorje Shugden practitioners?

Teachers from the list who practise or had practised Dorje Shugden: Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Zong Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, HH Serkong Dorje Chang, Tsenshab Serkong Rinpoche, Geshe Rabten Rinpoche, Zimmey Rinpoche, Choden Rinpoche, HH Sakya Trizin, Ribur Rinpoche

Excellent observation Namdrol and thank you for sharing. Another important fact would be that Lama Zopa's ROOT GURU LAMA YESHE himself was a ardent Dorje Shugden practitioner and Kopan used to hold regular Shugden pujas. Yes yes yes, the FPMT folks would have you believe that their Guru is now clean and is on the Dalai Lama's good side. But if one thinks deeply, there is a very high possibility that Lama Zopa continues to keep his commitments to his root guru and practice in secret...

The Dalai Lama's two most famous Gurus Ling Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche both practiced Dorje Shugden - Trijang Rinpoche practiced openly to this day, while Ling Rinpoche practiced in secret after the ban came in place. I wonder who the other teachers of the Dalai Lama were. Chances are, we will see the same pattern as in the case of Lama Zopa...

Ensapa

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Re: 44% of Lama Zopa's teachers practise Dorje Shugden
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 10:54:43 AM »
There is something more interesting in the list of Gurus listed. As we all know, Lama Zopa is a DS Lama and he did that practice for most of his life so far. But he has a Guru from the Sakya lineage! There is this rumor going around that Dorje Shugden will punish Gelugpas who take teachings from other lineages, right? So why isnt Lama Zopa 'punished' by Dorje Shugden? The fact that Lama Zopa is still alive and healthy today shows that Dorje Shugden is not as bad as some people want to paint him to be and he is not out there to harm us but to protect us and to make sure that we dont confuse ourselves. Lamas such as Lama Zopa do not need such restrictions, and again, this proves that the allegations against Dorje Shugden are wrong.