Author Topic: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden  (Read 16802 times)

Middleway

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2010, 01:44:23 PM »
Contaminated Dharma is not Dharma. Dharma is by definition pure and a holy object of refuge

Helena

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2010, 04:23:05 PM »
Dear all who have taken the time to share their knowledge with me, I do appreciate it very much. Thanks for the link, Protectors Champion. I shall take a good read and then get back to discussing with you once I am done. In relation to judging - I am not sure if I am in a position to judge HH DL, but I am in a position to check my Lama out because I am there with him and I can ask his existing students and get their feedback. With my Lama, I spend time observing him and seeing how he has treated all his students and I look at his students' progress or the results of his progress. From there, I am able to ascertain if he is indeed the right Lama for me. But I do not judge my Lama at all. I still maintain that I am not that enlightened to do so. As in HH DL's case, there is a difference in what I think of him and what I think of the TGIE. To me, they are not the same. DL's motivations and theirs may differ tremendously. As I have written earlier before, if it is without the DL's constant 'promotion' of DS, I would have never come across this Protector at all. In fact, there are so many Deities and Dharmapalas - DS would not have been found out, if not so constantly highlighted by DL. As I have said before, I come into this sacred space to learn and gather new info, not to challenged by people who wish to use big words and their gift of eloquence to intellectualize everything. I am not here for a debate, as I am not going for any Geshe examinations at this point in time. But what I do appreciate is when someone takes the time to share more info and post links to where I could learn more info. If you wish to deliver a Dharma talk, then please state something that is relevant and helpful to me. Readers can easily tell very fast the way a person write - is it just to flex and showcase how intellectual they are and how wonderfully articluate they are - or are the authors truly caring in sharing and giving knowledge and building real undertstanding. A friend becomes a friend when he or she acts like one and speaks like one. And I'd appreciate a friend very much in here, always. THANK YOU.
Helena

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2010, 04:35:35 PM »
Quote
I am not here for a debate,


Well, this is an interesting position. You say that you are not here for a debate.
You are not here only for information either.
You are here to state your opinions, which you have done with a very articulate language.
But to state your opinions and then say "I'm not here for a debate" is not tenable.

Samayatree, we can be all friends even with different opinions. Why equal "opposing opinion" with "enemy"?
I for one will fight your position towards the Dalai Lama with all the might that I can muster from my speech ... and still be your friend.


Helena

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2010, 04:43:55 PM »
I like that, I really like that - though I am not interested in a fight as you put it but I like learning new things from a friend. Again, I am not here for debate. I would like to enrich my knowledge. That is the purpose of me being here. I clarify again so that you do not need to write another long line about how I want to debate, ok. Now, can you please share more info on your thoughts on DL with facts and data so that we can all learn here. I'd like to read up too or if there are links you can point me to? I'd appreciate that. Then at least, I get to see the different points of view and make my own conclusions. OF course, the same goes with me, I will remain your friend even if I do end up disagreeing with you. And I will still respect you, despite our different views. Thank you.
Helena

Helena

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2010, 04:48:29 PM »
Clarify this for me, please - if people who have misunderstanding of Dharma or who hold wrong views of Dharma, is that not considered contaminated Dharma? Obviously the best is for people to have Dharma and no misunderstanding of it. But if all they have is a misunderstood view of Dharma, is that not better than having no Dharma at all?
Helena

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2010, 05:00:49 PM »

Samayatree,

It's a good beginning, to accept that we can be friends no matter our opinions.
Please help me spread the concept. I'm not kidding, we have partially lost this concept and it would be so much easier and more pleasant if we could adopt it again. I assume that you have indeed adopted it and this makes me very happy.

To answer your question. Ok, first we have to say that we are talking about Buddhadharma. If we are talking about Buddhadharma then it cannot be contaminated.
But the expression does exist, "to pollute Dharma with wrong views" or something like that. I don't want to mislead you, let me check on this one if I can.


Helena

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2010, 05:04:06 PM »
Dear A Friend, now I can call you that - a real Dharma Friend  :) That makes me very happy too. THANK YOU. I truly appreciate that. I am really new to DS and Dharma. So, I am really hungry for knowledge. I like your way of putting Dharma Logic and awaits with anticipation on how you will present your case against HH DL via Dharma Logic. With respect and humility, thank you.  :)
Helena

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2010, 05:19:42 PM »


Are you new to DS and Dharma? This is a surprise.
The best thing I can advice right now is for you to read Pabongka Rinpoche´s LIBERATION IN OUR HANDS, in Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin with Artemus Engle's version. This version is not only extraordinarily accurate, it also has a treasure house of notes that Engle took at the feet of that great Lama, his Teacher.

Also, an interesting thing about this version is the proximity to the source.
It is said that the closer to the source, the better. Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin, a great Lama with immaculate lineage, received the teachings stated in LIBERATION in the still more extensive version that Lord Pabongka gave during two months, I think. Rinpoche was very young but he had that extraordinary transmission directly from the sublime Master Kyabje Pabongka Deche Ñingpo himself.

Samayatree, I could not give you anything more precious than this suggestion. It can take years to read, analyze and contemplate these holy teachings but the journey is the best any human being can take.

The book is published by MSTP, Mahayana Sutra and Tantra Press: www.mstp.us


WisdomBeing

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2010, 05:42:19 PM »
Samayatree,

Though you are a newbie, it's lovely to have you with us - and what a tango you are having with A Friend :) I'm glad to see that we can all be friends and agree to disagree. After all, we are Dharma brothers and sisters. In a forum like this where passions for our dearest Protector can run high, it is easy to lose our equanimity. There are many of the old guard who were here before I joined and I know that several of them have gone through quite a lot that the newer people like us could not begin to understand.

However, being new doesn't mean that our views are not valid, and i am glad that this forum allows all of us to have a voice within the expected decorum of a Dharma forum - where our interaction should be exemplary of the Dharma motivation that we should be driven by - respect, civility and not getting personal in our disagreements.

Going back to the topic at hand - this issue of whether people are pro-Dalai Lama or against him has always been particularly contentious in this forum, so do read some of the older threads. As a newbie, please do read this fabulous commentary by TK: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1425. I personally find those points very logical and it just makes sense to me.

Love
Kate
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

WisdomBeing

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2010, 03:43:39 AM »
My dear Protector's Champion,

Having faith in the Dalai Lama is a choice each of us makes. You do not have to have faith in the Dalai Lama to participate in this forum. While I have not experienced the hell you have gone through in your journey with Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama, I do have moments of frustration with what the Dalai Lama is doing. I then go back to the article, 'Contemplate This' (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=46) to find calmness within. I quote from there:

"Those of you who have tremendous obstacles, fearful situations, desperate predicaments, financial woes that hinder your dharma growth and practice should engage in the tremendously quick and efficacious practice of Dorje Shugden. It must be combined with pure Guru devotion, consistent practice of one’s yidam, holding one’s vows and words of honor, no harm should be done to others, respect of all lineages and lineage lamas, teachers and masters. Forgive and forbear those who show enmity and disdain. For that would please the holy mind of the Dharmaphala King of the Three Lokas, Gyelchen Dorje Shugden. Even if one has no confirmed practice, lama or vows, still with good motivation, if one propitiates this holy protector, one can see the benefits. Like anything with time, the help, and mystical intervention of this supreme being will be felt more and more obvious. Especially if one is on the path of the cultivation of Lam Rim realizations. Put your energies not into worry, despair, depression, unnecessary wastage of time, but channel it into the modernly adapted yet supreme practice of this protector."

In this forum, we can express our feelings towards what is going on, but not to be a character assassination of anyone - including the Dalai Lama. I think all of us are well aware of your opinion of the Dalai Lama and I have often expressed that I do empathise. However, I do believe that tempering our anger and frustration and transforming these negative energies are key Dharma practices that we should all strive for and the benefit is ultimately not the Dalai Lama but ourselves.

Wishing you happiness and peace,

love
Kate
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

cleojean

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2010, 07:30:40 AM »
Dear everyone - especially to Mohani, A Friend and Samayatree,
Firstly, I would like to express my deepest and sincere apologies. I must admit when I first read about how some people wanted to open a mirror site and just abandoned ship like that, so easily - it sparked a defense mechanism within me. As it stands, DS practitioners are already getting bullied in all ways. So, I felt much incensed by how our own members would seemingly do the same. Having said all that, I realise these are just my own perceptions. Whether they are right or wrong, I cannot say. I have no right to say. Whether they themselves understand what they are doing and what their real motivation is, I am also not in a position to judge. As our main practice is always loving kindness, I felt most ashamed that I displayed none of it. As I logged in and read all the posts - especially the conversations between A Friend and Samayatree and how they resovled their differences and ended up friendship, it truly moved me. In addition, when I read Mohani's own post - it brought tears to my eyes. I am sure it is not easy for Mohani to do this. I know it would not be easy for me, personally, if I were Mohani. But I have gained faith and respect in the members of this Forum due to what has happened recently. Sometimes we ourselves may not know how well our sincere intent may be received. Some of us may not even realise whether our intent is sincere or genuine in the first place as well. After much reflection on my own shameful actions, and the kind actions of others in this Forum - my belief and faith in this Forum are deeply reinforced. This website and Forum not only share a treasure of valuable information but it brings people to a higher understanding of one another, and of ourselves. And that is truly amazingly beautiful to me.
I had to re-value my own thoughts and feelings as well. Perhaps this is similiar to what is happening in Dharamsala & TGIE - HH DL may have his own plans in doing what he does with DS - but the ways in which  the TGIE has executed those policies have been too extreme. Some may have been over-ruled by their own highly defensive emotions, some may be over-ruled by their own desires for more power and money and some may be just plain confused and are swept by the whole TIDE OF THINGS. Hence, there is a real difference between those who execute and those who issues a statement or policy, or those who want to do something important but the sincerity of the intent is not understood, or even appreciated. So much misunderstanding can arise from it, as can be exemplified by what happened in here. This is just a mirror to our outside world.
It is vry clear to me that I know very little and understand very little. Above all, it is so important that we begin everything with compassion so that we can end with compassion.
I can safely say that no one here is bad or has any ill intent. So many people – oldies or newbies have taken the time to post things and share so much meaningful information and have enriched us all. This Forum is great because of everyone’s collective efforts and dedication to share more. And that is what I truly value most of all.
So, once again, I am deeply sorry to have caused anyone, any grief or discomfort in any which way or form. And I humbly request that we all remember how valuable this Forum this and how important all of us are to this Forum. We are the ones who make this Forum special, every input and every word we put in here – may it all be drenched with loving kindness, and the true motivation to help others understand DS better and the glory of DS.
May this Forum be a haven, be an institution of learning and healing, a place of comfort and solace to anyone who needs and seeks for it.
May this Forum be a sanctuary of friendship, hope and great faith.
May the supreme glory of DS spread into the ten directions from here and change lives.
I shall re-post my comments here in other threads where I have commented so that the people whom my apologies are directed to can read them. This is my only intention and it is not to spam.
Thank you for having me here. It is a joy and priviledge.
May I always strive to behave and speak in a way that reflects my Guru’s teachings and kindness. May I always embody what I aspire to practice through my words. May I strive to be a good example of a student of Dharma and follower of DS.

THANK YOU ALL and have a wonderful day

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2015, 07:56:54 AM »
From the very beginning this forum had and is still advocating faith in both HH Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden.

We are on this forum to learn and enhance our Buddhist faith not to be political nor abusive to which side we may be on.

Protector Practice is a personal and private choice which should create uncalled for judgement on both a Buddha and the world's most renowned Monk.

Persevere and pray that we overcome our negativities and have the best solution on the Ban on Dorje Shugden.

Kim Hyun Jae

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2015, 12:40:21 PM »
His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a Chenrezig or Avalokitesvara who is an enlightened Being who sees all. Dorje Shugden is a wrathful emanation of Buddha Manjushri who is Wisdom Buddha. There has been prayers propitiating DS written by the 14th Dalai Lama before the ban was enforced.

There would be this "divine play" which may be the workings of both enlightened Beings to ride us through this degenerate age, where it is said that "religion" and "Buddhism" will go down this way.

So we should pay respect to both and not take sides and keep the faith on both.

DharmaSpace

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2015, 05:19:05 PM »
The 5th Dalai Lama also write prayers to Dorje Shugden and he also moulded a personal statue of Dorje Shugden as well. 

So the Dalai lama and Dorje Shugden has had a very long association, so it would be very surprising or a lie  if the 14th Dalai lama claims that he did not know the true nature of Dorje Shugden until he checked. 

Gabby Potter

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Re: Don't Lose Faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2015, 05:53:24 PM »
This has been predicted even before the ban was implemented, it proves that His Holiness the Dalai Lama does have His own reasons on imposing the ban. We may not see it yet but time will prove everything.