Author Topic: New Kalon Tripa?  (Read 11528 times)

beggar

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New Kalon Tripa?
« on: January 29, 2011, 05:23:13 PM »
There's a new kid in town - since Samdhong Rinpoche is about to step down as the Prime Minister of the TGIE, Dr Lobsang Sangay is being primed to take over. (there are many videos of him all over YouTube, speaking on various political matters which you can check out).

I have been hearing from sources within Shar Gaden that his people have been going down to Shar Gaden and asking them to vote for this Lobsang Sangay as the new Prime Minister.

Well, in an interesting turn-around the monks from Shar Gaden have directly said NO and that they will not vote for the Tibetan Governme;   (we stand up, and applaud!)

Not surprising is it? Why would you vote for a government that has denied you any basic rights, welfare, medical help, education, even your citizenship is held tightly by the reins by this government who will threaten to revoke it if you don't give up your life-long spiritual practice. In any case, anything that Dorje Shugden practitioners do try to petition or request for (basic human rights of religious freedom) will never be entertained and, will in fact, become the very basis for them to be ostracised, and attacked by their own people, without any protection, help or compensation from the government.

Why WOULD you vote for a government like this?

Zach

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2011, 10:41:59 PM »
There's a new kid in town - since Samdhong Rinpoche is about to step down as the Prime Minister of the TGIE, Dr Lobsang Sangay is being primed to take over. (there are many videos of him all over YouTube, speaking on various political matters which you can check out).

I have been hearing from sources within Shar Gaden that his people have been going down to Shar Gaden and asking them to vote for this Lobsang Sangay as the new Prime Minister.

Well, in an interesting turn-around the monks from Shar Gaden have directly said NO and that they will not vote for the Tibetan Governme;   (we stand up, and applaud!)

Not surprising is it? Why would you vote for a government that has denied you any basic rights, welfare, medical help, education, even your citizenship is held tightly by the reins by this government who will threaten to revoke it if you don't give up your life-long spiritual practice. In any case, anything that Dorje Shugden practitioners do try to petition or request for (basic human rights of religious freedom) will never be entertained and, will in fact, become the very basis for them to be ostracised, and attacked by their own people, without any protection, help or compensation from the government.

Why WOULD you vote for a government like this?

I was under the impression people where disavowed from associating from Dorje Shugden practitoners why would politcians be campaigning there ? such would be a good oppertunity for one to plead case to one whom seeks to be elected.

WisdomBeing

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 02:23:20 AM »

I was under the impression people where disavowed from associating from Dorje Shugden practitoners why would politcians be campaigning there ? such would be a good oppertunity for one to plead case to one whom seeks to be elected.

Hmmm it IS strange that they were lobbying at Shar Gaden - i would have thought that Shar Gaden monks were ostracised and not allowed to vote! If they ARE being allowed to vote, that's great - then they can state their case to the political aspirant, as Zach says.

Also if they ARE allowed to vote - is there any alternative to the TGIE anyway or is it a monopoly?

If this is getting too political, it's not necessary to answer - i was just curious how it works.

Cheers.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

triesa

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 02:58:27 PM »
First, I wonder why Samdhong Rinpoche would step down as the prime minister of TGIE, is it becasue it is towards the end of his term or is he stepping down for other reasons?

I also have no idea of who this Dr Lobsang Sangay is, but the mere fact that he is trying to lobby the Shar Ganden monks to vote for him as the next prime minister of TGIE, is a joke to me. It is a big joke to me unless this Dr Lobsang Sangay is offering the Dorje Shugden practitioners same status as all other monks, stop all ostracism, reinstate all human rights and aide to the Shar Gaden monks; otherwise, like what begger said, who in Shar Gaden would be stupid enough to vote for the TGIE???

Mana

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 05:17:33 PM »


Samdhong Rinpoche is stepping down because it is the end of his term.

Mana

Mana

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 05:18:46 PM »
I also have no idea of who this Dr Lobsang Sangay is, but the mere fact that he is trying to lobby the Shar Ganden monks to vote for him as the next prime minister of TGIE, is a joke to me. It is a big joke to me unless this Dr Lobsang Sangay is offering the Dorje Shugden practitioners same status as all other monks, stop all ostracism, reinstate all human rights and aide to the Shar Gaden monks; otherwise, like what begger said, who in Shar Gaden would be stupid enough to vote for the TGIE???

Good points. Why would TGIE go to Shar Gaden to get votes? Does not make sense whatsoever.

Big Uncle

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 08:45:09 PM »
I was under the impression people where disavowed from associating from Dorje Shugden practitoners why would politicians be campaigning there ? Such would be a good oppertunity for one to plead case to one whom seeks to be elected.

It is so ironic that the Tibetan Government would seek the very monks they had been oppressing to vote for them. The silliness and stupidity of the officials are amazing and they really think the monks who are trained in logic and reasoning would help them win their elections so they can oppress them even more. But Zach have a rather good point, wouldn't soliciting votes from practitioners of Dorje Shugden shouldn't be allowed? For votes and power, they would even bypass the Dalai Lama's edict as well. This reveals a discrepancies and inequality that is prevalent in the TGIE.   

Mana

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 09:42:50 PM »
Maybe it is a sign of a turn of event, this prime-minister-to-be is not a monk, he is a lay person. Of course he has to toe the line with Dalai Lama and the current Tibetan Government still, but the religious side may not be at the top of his priority, unlike Samdhong Rinpoche who is a sangha, so chances are he may not (if ever) carry out suppression policy towards the Shugden practitioners as serious as the current government does .

Furthermore, this Dr Sangay is a graduate from Harvard, and I am sure he will not risk staining the Harvard name, which ranks among the tops in law, humanities faculties in the world, by doing things that are against "the spirit of Harvard", after all Harvard is his halo, and one wrong move in terms of "religious freedom" and "human rights", the Harvard community will certainly make noise and I am sure he wouldn't want to be stripped of the "Harvard" halo. He would want to balance between the Tibetans and the West, so he may adopt "the middle path" which is good for Shugden practitioners.

So far we have never heard him say one thing about the Shugden issue...

So...it could be a sign of better things to come for Shugden practitioners in the Tibetan community for this Dr Sangay, let's keep our finger crossed...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 09:45:25 PM by Mana »

jessicajameson

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2011, 08:07:28 PM »

Hmmm it IS strange that they were lobbying at Shar Gaden - i would have thought that Shar Gaden monks were ostracised and not allowed to vote! If they ARE being allowed to vote, that's great - then they can state their case to the political aspirant, as Zach says.

Also if they ARE allowed to vote - is there any alternative to the TGIE anyway or is it a monopoly?

If this is getting too political, it's not necessary to answer - i was just curious how it works.

Cheers.

I can't seem to find anything on TGIE opposition parties. I don't think that there are any alternatives...!

The TGIE seems very flippy-floppy with their actions: ostracizing Shar Gaden monks, but asking them to vote for a government that has their stamp all over 'anti-dorje shugden practitioners' posters. Their flippy-floppy standards will not stand very long with the people, especially when (sorry to even type this) HHDL goes into clear light.

Big Uncle

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2011, 08:32:44 PM »
Maybe it is a sign of a turn of event, this prime-minister-to-be is not a monk, he is a lay person. Of course he has to toe the line with Dalai Lama and the current Tibetan Government still, but the religious side may not be at the top of his priority, unlike Samdhong Rinpoche who is a sangha, so chances are he may not (if ever) carry out suppression policy towards the Shugden practitioners as serious as the current government does .

Furthermore, this Dr Sangay is a graduate from Harvard, and I am sure he will not risk staining the Harvard name, which ranks among the tops in law, humanities faculties in the world, by doing things that are against "the spirit of Harvard", after all Harvard is his halo, and one wrong move in terms of "religious freedom" and "human rights", the Harvard community will certainly make noise and I am sure he wouldn't want to be stripped of the "Harvard" halo. He would want to balance between the Tibetans and the West, so he may adopt "the middle path" which is good for Shugden practitioners.

So far we have never heard him say one thing about the Shugden issue...

So...it could be a sign of better things to come for Shugden practitioners in the Tibetan community for this Dr Sangay, let's keep our finger crossed...

Dear Mana,

I find your interpretation of this latest development rather intriguing. It is true what you say about those two point. A lay minister would have less of an obligation when compared to a Sangha member to prioritize the ban on Dorje Shugden since it is mainly a spiritual issue. Like you say, he might just put the ban towards the bottom of important matters. The other point is that he is a Harvard graduate and that would mean he is exposed, educated and have an image to uphold. Hence, he might most likely be disinclined to enforce the Dorje Shugden ban and focus more onto more pressing issues. That would be a very much welcomed development. Perhaps they would over time slowly let the Dorje Shugden slide away. The very fact, that he has not commented on the Shugden issue is a VERY good sign. 

WisdomBeing

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 04:01:51 PM »
I like the point about Dr Sangay not having made negative comments re Shugden. It would be easy to curry favour with TGIE to be strident and vocal about Shugden, but instead, there is lobbying in Shar Gaden. Ever the optimist, I think that it is a good sign - that perhaps the new TGIE will be more inclusive...

Here's hoping... anyway, I am sure that Dorje Shugden will manifest whatever situation which will be most beneficial.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Big Uncle

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 06:02:01 PM »
On top of that, I am sure nothing is immune to change and betterment. Even the dreaded TGIE would eventually have to move and change with the times. With the increasing awareness and literacy levels amongst Tibetans (I am assuming this fact), the increasing ranks of the educated and exposed Tibetans, they would eventually put more pressure and emphasis on reforms, changes and great implementation of a more secular approach towards handling governmental affairs. Perhaps, through this way, the Dorje Shugden ban would slowly be dissolved as no secular government would want to enforce such a medieval ban and handling of religious matter.

jessicajameson

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 06:37:21 PM »

Furthermore, this Dr Sangay is a graduate from Harvard, and I am sure he will not risk staining the Harvard name, which ranks among the tops in law, humanities faculties in the world, by doing things that are against "the spirit of Harvard", after all Harvard is his halo, and one wrong move in terms of "religious freedom" and "human rights", the Harvard community will certainly make noise and I am sure he wouldn't want to be stripped of the "Harvard" halo.


Perhaps if Dr Sangay does make a 'wrong' move and the Harvard community does make noise...it might just be a good thing.

Having Harvard darlings speak about the Dorje Shugden ban, doesn't have the same global effect as compared to a few practitioners talking about the injustice Shugdenpas face.  ;D

WisdomBeing

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Re: New Kalon Tripa?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2011, 12:14:11 AM »
On top of that, I am sure nothing is immune to change and betterment. Even the dreaded TGIE would eventually have to move and change with the times. With the increasing awareness and literacy levels amongst Tibetans (I am assuming this fact), the increasing ranks of the educated and exposed Tibetans, they would eventually put more pressure and emphasis on reforms, changes and great implementation of a more secular approach towards handling governmental affairs. Perhaps, through this way, the Dorje Shugden ban would slowly be dissolved as no secular government would want to enforce such a medieval ban and handling of religious matter.


Of course there will always be impermanence. What was once Tibet has become Chinese. Mongols once almost took over Europe. Once, Prussia controlled Europe. Today all this has changed. The TGIE does not even have a country to rule over - it is really an example of samsaric illusion. I'm not too sure about increasing awareness and literacy either. From what i hear, most Tibetans live in refugee camps and do not have access to much education. Their communities are pretty much controlled by whatever propaganda the TGIE wish to inculcate them with. Those Tibetans who have gone overseas do not fare much better either and are either distancing themselves from Tibetan politics completely or into the freedom movement. They basically do not really care about the Shugden issue - especially if they are not practitioners.

Re the point "the Dorje Shugden ban would slowly be dissolved as no secular government would want to enforce such a medieval ban and handling of religious matter." - it would be good if the TGIE became secular as Dharma and politics do not mix well. The current TGIE only is as effective as it is (and even then, not very) because of the persona of the Dalai Lama. When the Dalai Lama passes, which sadly will happen sooner than later, the TGIE will be really lost. Especially as there is no apparent successor, with the current Karmapa issue.

I do hope Dr Sangay will bring a fresh wind of change to the TGIE... time will tell.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being