The Fake Karmapa is destroying the precious Karma Kagyu Lineage! Can't CTA help?

[PrajNa]

Why the double standard from the CTA again? For the Panchen Lama issue, the CTA is very vocal about it. They launch campaigns to let everyone know who is the real Panchen Lama and advise us not to follow the fake one. They do it to protect the purity of the lineage, it also clearly indicates that there can only be one Panchen Lama.

In the case of the Karmapa, why is the CTA not doing the same to protect the Karma Kagyu lineage? Why is the CTA not telling us who the real Karmapa aggressively? Is it because the Gelug lineage is more precious than the Karma Kagyu lineage? How can a government play favoritism?

Whether Gelug or Karma Kagyu lineage, they are both very precious. The CTA as the guardian to the Tibetan Buddhism as they claim, they should protect all lineages. They seem to put more effort and focus on Gelug lineage, why the favoritism? They are sectarian in this case because they care more about the Gelug lineage.

Personally I think it's because for the Panchen Lama issue, they can garner sympathy for Tibet cause and also get funding. Not so with the Karmapa issue, because it seems to be an internal/religious issue.

CTA operates based on profit, or profit-making for their own pocket, unfortunately. 

[pemachen]

Why the double standard from the CTA again? For the Panchen Lama issue, the CTA is very vocal about it. They launch campaigns to let everyone know who is the real Panchen Lama and advise us not to follow the fake one. They do it to protect the purity of the lineage, it also clearly indicates that there can only be one Panchen Lama.

In the case of the Karmapa, why is the CTA not doing the same to protect the Karma Kagyu lineage? Why is the CTA not telling us who the real Karmapa aggressively? Is it because the Gelug lineage is more precious than the Karma Kagyu lineage? How can a government play favoritism?

Whether Gelug or Karma Kagyu lineage, they are both very precious. The CTA as the guardian to the Tibetan Buddhism as they claim, they should protect all lineages. They seem to put more effort and focus on Gelug lineage, why the favoritism? They are sectarian in this case because they care more about the Gelug lineage.

Personally I think it's because for the Panchen Lama issue, they can garner sympathy for Tibet cause and also get funding. Not so with the Karmapa issue, because it seems to be an internal/religious issue.

CTA operates based on profit, or profit-making for their own pocket, unfortunately. 

Agree with PrajNa. Lobsang Sangay and his accomplice in Dharamsala are only out to fend for themselves. They are making the Panchen Lama a big deal so that they can get worldwide sympathy for Tibet Cause, and they can get more financial aid from the West. That's what it's all about. Do you think Lobsang Sangay really cares who's the Panchen Lama? CTA has been functioning without a Panchen Lama for 60 years. What's the difference?

[Rowntree]

Thanks to Tai Situ now there are 2 Karmapas. He even brought people to Rumtek and create the riot during the White Karmapa's enthronement preceded by Sharmapa. This has caused the Indian Government banned both Karmapas from going back to their monastery. There is a lot of heritage there and everyone is eyeing on it.

Politics and greed take over a supposedly high lama who is willing to ruin the lineage by getting his choice of Karmapa endorsed. Tai Situ created all these fractions and enjoyed the material benefits for selling his lineage. He is such a bad example.

[Alex]

Thanks to Tai Situ now there are 2 Karmapas. He even brought people to Rumtek and create the riot during the White Karmapa's enthronement preceded by Sharmapa. This has caused the Indian Government banned both Karmapas from going back to their monastery. There is a lot of heritage there and everyone is eyeing on it.

Politics and greed take over a supposedly high lama who is willing to ruin the lineage by getting his choice of Karmapa endorsed. Tai Situ created all these fractions and enjoyed the material benefits for selling his lineage. He is such a bad example.

Tai Situ Rinpoche is a high lama in Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism really made a fool out of himself. Have anyone seen the video where he talked about how scary Dorje Shugden is? In the video, he expressed that he is scared by just reciting Dorje Shugden's name. Indirectly, he is saying that him being a high Rinpoche can be overpowered by a mere evil spirit.

Lamas of Tibetan Buddhism are famous for their ability to solve paranormal problems. That is why when Situ Rinpoche said that he is afraid of the evil spirit called Dorje Shugden, he is saying that Karma Kagyu Lamas are incapable. They can't even subdue an evil spirit. So it means whatever teachings they practice is not effective and false because Buddha's teachings are supposed to be able to subdue spirits with compassion.

It also shows how incapable of him being a Rinpoche for being scared of an evil spirit. All of these does not make sense for a person who has knowledge about Tibetan Buddhism. In fact, anyone who examines the whole Dorje Shugden ban and also the reason that CTA gave to justify the ban, they will find it illogical. CTA is obviously lying about why the impose the ban. There is a hidden agenda in it.

[Tracy]

Personally I think it's because for the Panchen Lama issue, they can garner sympathy for Tibet cause and also get funding. Not so with the Karmapa issue, because it seems to be an internal/religious issue.

CTA operates based on profit, or profit-making for their own pocket, unfortunately. 

I am sure the CTA is using the Panchen Lama issue to condemn China and to garner sympathy for Tibet cause for more free money. But if the Karmapa issue is an internal/religious within the Kagyu lineage, why did the CTA and the Dalai Lama have to give an endorsement to him that he is the real Karmapa?

The way the CTA handle the Karmapa issue is again with a political agenda. They want the Karmapa to be their puppet so they can use a high lama to continue to get free money. The only mission of CTA is to exploit the lamas, the Tibetans people so they don't have to work hard and they can get rich easily.

The CTA always uses the name of religion to manipulate people. They have failed miserably in the Tibet Cause, in order to cover up themselves they blame it on Dorje Shugden. This sounds so ridiculous that an unseen being is so powerful to destroy a country.  But the CTA think everyone is so gullible that they will buy the story.

[Alex]

Personally I think it's because for the Panchen Lama issue, they can garner sympathy for Tibet cause and also get funding. Not so with the Karmapa issue, because it seems to be an internal/religious issue.

CTA operates based on profit, or profit-making for their own pocket, unfortunately. 

I am sure the CTA is using the Panchen Lama issue to condemn China and to garner sympathy for Tibet cause for more free money. But if the Karmapa issue is an internal/religious within the Kagyu lineage, why did the CTA and the Dalai Lama have to give an endorsement to him that he is the real Karmapa?

The way the CTA handle the Karmapa issue is again with a political agenda. They want the Karmapa to be their puppet so they can use a high lama to continue to get free money. The only mission of CTA is to exploit the lamas, the Tibetans people so they don't have to work hard and they can get rich easily.

The CTA always uses the name of religion to manipulate people. They have failed miserably in the Tibet Cause, in order to cover up themselves they blame it on Dorje Shugden. This sounds so ridiculous that an unseen being is so powerful to destroy a country.  But the CTA think everyone is so gullible that they will buy the story.

This is very confusing for Buddhist like me. There used to be 2 Panchen Lama and luckily CTA cleared the doubt. Now there is a total of 3 Karmapas now and who am I suppose to follow? All 3 of them are backed by high lamas and there is no way for a normal Buddhist like me to know who is the real Karmapa and who to follow.

The Tibetan leadership did a good job in identifying the fake Panchen Lama and they should also do it for Karmapa. Why are they keeping quiet now since it is a good time for them to speak up. The Karmapa that used to be close to CTA ran away to the western country and now His Holiness the Dalai Lama went to Kagyu Monlam in Bodhgaya which is preceded by the other Karmapa.

So CTA going to recognise both of the Karmapa? This is very confusing. Please Tibetan leadership, I do not want to follow the wrong Karmapa and then go to hell for this. Please help me and choose the right one.

[dsnowlion]

We all know that the Dalai Lama and CTA recognised the Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa. It doesn't mean he is the true Karmapa. We all know it's the Sharmapas who recognises the next Karmapas. Through the recognition by both the Dalai Lama & the Sharmapa (Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche Mipham Chokyi Lodro) of the 17th Karmapas, the Karma Kagyu sects was divided and been in rift since.

It is NOT the Tibetan leadership's job to recognise the Karmapa by tradition. So why would the Dalai Lama reject the Karmapa Thaye Dorje when so many highly attained lamas from various lineages recognized and accept him? Could it be because he's fake?

Now that Thaye Dorje's son could be the Sharmapa, is he still the "fake" Karmapa? Would really want to hear what the Tibetan leaders has to say about this!

Yes - mee too would like to hear what the CTA has to say about this BUT they have been QUIET! So quiet you can hear the pin drop! Lol

These are my thoughts.... they would not dare to say anything because they are cornered... since the new baby from Thaye Dorje is "Sharmapa" that would simply mean the Karmapa the Dalai Lama recognise is wrong and so, CTA would end up condemning themselves that the Dalai Lama can be wrong and choose the wrong candidate for the sake of what? Money? Did Tai Situ donate a huge amount for this deal? Who knows, probably after hearing so many scandals, one after another being exposed.

Another reason is, if they pick and say their Karmapa is the real one, then they a whole section of people who follows Thaye Dorje who are from ALL OVER THE WORLD... countries the CTA is trying to MILK the mulah $$$$ from will start to protest and reject. They already dislike Dharamsala for choosing Tai Situ's black Karmapa... this would just escalate their anger.

Now Dalai Lama is trying to cover his mistakes by saying there is a possibility of 2 Karmapas, well maybe that's true, maybe that isn't, but whatever the case, I don't think the CTA can manipulate the Karmapas any more seeing BOTH want OUT and AWAY from the Dalai Lama and the CTA which is a huge embarrassment. We just have to wait and see as the drama unfolds! There is such a thing called karma, and guess what Sharmapa is back to taunt them 

[PrajNa]

The Tibetan leadership did a good job in identifying the fake Panchen Lama and they should also do it for Karmapa. Why are they keeping quiet now since it is a good time for them to speak up. The Karmapa that used to be close to CTA ran away to the western country and now His Holiness the Dalai Lama went to Kagyu Monlam in Bodhgaya which is preceded by the other Karmapa.

So CTA going to recognise both of the Karmapa? This is very confusing. Please Tibetan leadership, I do not want to follow the wrong Karmapa and then go to hell for this. Please help me and choose the right one.

It's very weird. They are the one who started who's real who's fake in the first place. So now that there are 2, why can't they announce which one is the real one? The question is will they stick to the one who is 'real' and ran away, or will they declare Karmapa Thaye Dorje as the real one now since the 'real' Karmapa fled and left them high and dry after years of being mistreated and manipulated under the CTA ?

[Harold Musetescu]

The Tibetan leadership did a good job in identifying the fake Panchen Lama and they should also do it for Karmapa. Why are they keeping quiet now since it is a good time for them to speak up. The Karmapa that used to be close to CTA ran away to the western country and now His Holiness the Dalai Lama went to Kagyu Monlam in Bodhgaya which is preceded by the other Karmapa.

So CTA going to recognise both of the Karmapa? This is very confusing. Please Tibetan leadership, I do not want to follow the wrong Karmapa and then go to hell for this. Please help me and choose the right one.

What is this nonsense about "CTA who is the real Karmapa?".

In 1992 the Dalai Lama and the CTA publicly stated who was the Karmapa and it was NOT Thaye Dorje.

So can we stop this nonsense here and now.

The CTA stated publicly in 1992 who was the Karmapa.

Can we move on now.

[PrajNa]

What is this nonsense about "CTA who is the real Karmapa?".

In 1992 the Dalai Lama and the CTA publicly stated who was the Karmapa and it was NOT Thaye Dorje.

So can we stop this nonsense here and now.

The CTA stated publicly in 1992 who was the Karmapa.

Can we move on now.

While he said that it was possible for the 16th Karmapa to have a few reincarnations, the Dalai Lama made it amply clear that there should be only one holder of the seat of the 17th Karmapa. The 14th Dalai Lama chose to remain quiet as to who will decide on the holder of the heads of Tibetan schools of Buddhism with the presence of two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas and the Chinese government already initiating the process of anointing the 15th Dalai Lama.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/not-my-business-to-decide-on-successor-dalai-lama/story-pI7CFgqSFnmBg9ZSOvWMTP.html

[Drolma]

As the leadership of the Tibetans, the CTA is very concerned of the purity of a Tibetan Buddhist tradition. They will put in a lot of effort and money to protect the lineage. Look at how they protect the Gelug lineage, in order to prevent the lineage from being polluted by Dorje Shugden, they impose a ban, publish books and videos and put official statements on their website. They even have a page dedicated to that.

But why is the CTA not doing the same for Karma Kagyu lineage? The 2 Karmapa issue has divided the Karma Kagyu into 2 groups, none of the 2 Karmapas is allowed to go to Rumtek Monastery because they still cannot decide which is the real Karmapa. Why didn't the CTA step in and decide which is the real Karmapa and allow him to go back to Rumtek Monastery? They did a good job in identifying the real and fake Panchen Lama, they will be able to do the same for the Karmapa.

Again, the CTA has a double standard on religious issues. Is it because they think Gelug lineage is more precious than the Karma Kagyu lineage and other lineages? As the leadership of the Tibetans, the CTA should not show favouritism, they have to protect the lineage, they cannot let the fake Karmapa destroy such a precious lineage. The CTA has to let people know which is the fake Karmapa and which is the real one.

[Harold Musetescu]

The CTA has to let people know which is the fake Karmapa and which is the real one.

The Dalai Lama has stated since 1992 who is the real Karmapa and who is the fake one.

The CTA has stated since 1992 who is the real Karmapa and who is the fake one.

Your question has been answered by the Dalai Lama and HIS CTA for the last 27 years.

Have I finally answered your question.

If not here's the answer to your question.

It's OGYEN TRINLEY DORJE.

Can we now all move on to more important issues that affect we the followers of Dorje Shugden?

[dsnowlion]

Well CTA what happened to your chosen Karmapa now???

Looks like the Dalai Lama's chosen Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje has a girlfriend and has many girlfriends according to what the news in Taiwan is reporting.

Translation of the Youtube title from a friend: Born amidst "auspicious cloud" descending into the world, showing miraculous signs! Karmapa with millions of devotees involved in a sexual scandal, voice recording exposed: "We experience joy and sorrow of life together" San Li news station


How come Dharamsala's choice of Karmapa has so many scandals, from money scandals to now sexual/relationship scandals. What does this tell us about the Central Tibetan Administration's credibility?

Looks like everything the exile Tibetan Government does is just turning into a huge sham! What a disgrace.

[Drolma]

The meeting of the two Karmapa definitely is a big surprise to everyone. In the past, the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has expressed many times he wants to meet with Sharmapa but it didn't happen. But finally, he met up with the Karmapa Thaye Dorje knowing that he cannot rely on the CTA to resolve the Karmapa issue.

They know the two Karmapas issue will split the Karma Kagyu lineage into two and it will affect the continuity of the lineage. They are very concerned about this than who the real Karmapa is. Perhaps the two of them are both real but there can be only one throne holder. But then as the leadership of the Tibetans, the CTA has to decide which one is real and which one is fake.

I am waiting to see when will the CTA issue a statement to declare who the real Karmapa is. Many Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhist all around the world are waiting for the CTA to make an announcement, they have to give everyone a direction like how they tell us which Panchen Lama to follow. I believe the CTA has the capability to do that since they have done it for the Panchen Lama.

[Harold Musetescu]

But then as the leadership of the Tibetans, the CTA has to decide which one is real and which one is fake.

I am waiting to see when will the CTA issue a statement to declare who the real Karmapa is. Many Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhist all around the world are waiting for the CTA to make an announcement, they have to give everyone a direction like how they tell us which Panchen Lama to follow. I believe the CTA has the capability to do that since they have done it for the Panchen Lama.

The CTA has since 1992 publicly backed the 14th Dalai Lama's choice of Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa.

So Drolma way after 27 years of the CTA backing this Karmapa  do they need to repeat it again in 2019?

Why are you and others demanding the CTA repeat again that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa?

This demand to the CTA makes no sense to me at all.

1992,1992,1992,1992,1992!!!