Author Topic: I will work very hard!  (Read 13583 times)

negra orquida

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I will work very hard!
« on: March 22, 2012, 06:15:10 PM »
Story time!  ;D

A martial arts student went to his teacher and said earnestly, "I am devoted to studying your martial arts system. How long will it take me to master it?"

The teacher casually replied, "Ten years."

Impatiently, the student persisted, "But I want to master it faster than that! I will work very hard! I will practice everyday, ten or more hours a day if I have to. How long will it take then??"

The teacher thought for a moment, scratched his head and said "20 years."


Why did the teacher said that the student would take twice as long to master the martial arts, despite the student's enthusiasm and promise to work very hard?  How would you have responded to the teacher's first reply and/or 2nd reply? Why?

Gypsy

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 05:52:23 AM »
If you want to learn something from a teacher or whoever possess the skills/knowledge, you do not ask them when can you achieve your goal. You ask yourself instead because it's all about you the learner of how sincere you want to get the result.

When the teacher's 1st reply 10 yrs, the student became impatient and asked for the 2nd time hoping for a better answer but who knows all he got was disappointment. This seems the selfish student just want to get something out from the teacher, with condition. He just want to use the teacher. This is very wrong as a learner, especially in between guru-disciple relationship. We don't just take from our guru selfishly, we give instead. We don't take our guru for granted, after getting what we want and dump the guru. This is a distorted attitude. 

DSFriend

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 08:28:24 AM »
haha..this is such a zen type of question.

Perhaps it's showed lack of trust from the student towards the teacher..thus it will take much longer.

I do believe masters can see our potential to gain similar mastery over a particular field of study. The reason being the master has gone thru the steps and knows what it takes to get there! Similar to us going to school and undergoing certain years of studies to move up from one grade level to the next.

So did the teacher made a mistake the first time when he gave the reply?

I don't think so. Reason being, in general it takes us 12 years or so to go through our grade school. Some make it out quicker than others and some never complete it. We do have the potential to complete it in 12 years but if we try to out smart our teachers or not trust and be guided, ...more than likely we will screw up. :)

just some thoughts ...


Manjushri

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 06:29:04 AM »
Story time!  ;D

A martial arts student went to his teacher and said earnestly, "I am devoted to studying your martial arts system. How long will it take me to master it?"

The teacher casually replied, "Ten years."

Impatiently, the student persisted, "But I want to master it faster than that! I will work very hard! I will practice everyday, ten or more hours a day if I have to. How long will it take then??"

The teacher thought for a moment, scratched his head and said "20 years."


Why did the teacher said that the student would take twice as long to master the martial arts, despite the student's enthusiasm and promise to work very hard?  How would you have responded to the teacher's first reply and/or 2nd reply? Why?

Thanks for the story, Negra. This story highlights exactly how the human mind works. The student's promise to work hard and practice everyday should come irregardless , and not just a promise because of wanting to master the martial arts in a quicker amount of time. Undoubtedly, mastering anything comes from hard work, and since, the first time the student asked out of "devotion" to studying from the master - devotion in itself should already include all of the above that the student promised to do.

Despite the student's enthusiam the 2nd time around, the master increased the timeframe because the student used words like "if I have to", and "I will", but why state it in future tense as if he is not going to try at all. Anyways, the student's motivation is wrong - he want's to work hard because he wants to learn fast and finish fast. But if he puts the effort in in the begninning, with the motivation of wanting to learn (which naturally, he would practice and work hard), then it might take less than ten years. To me, it's all about the motivation.

Jessie Fong

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 08:07:08 AM »
The student did not TRUST the master's judgement.
He was IMPATIENT.
He was EGOISTIC.
He was too eager.

There is no short-cut in life.  If the student was really devoted to studying martial arts, he should have prepared himself for the journey.  This is the same as searching for a Guru who will accept us as his students.  Once the relationship is sealed, we should fully trust our Guru who will never lead us on the wrong path.  Otherwise why look for a Guru or in this case, why search for a master to train you?

Positive Change

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 08:28:15 AM »
I agree with most replies here. It is very simple:

When one asks a teacher for advise or for an answer, one does not debate, question or doubt one's teacher. The moment there is any of these "obstacles" resulting from ego the student is not completely ready. Hence in this scenario, the teacher double the time needed when faced with the student's impatience and disbelieve.

The teacher was merely showing the student his stubbornness will only delay his advancement in his mastering of the practice.

How we love seeking answers or solutions from our teachers but our arrogance shows that we think we are better than our teachers. :P

pgdharma

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 08:47:50 AM »
The student who claimed to be so devoted to martial art should follow and listen to his Master’s judgment. He should not be so impatient and arrogant. The Master should know how long it will take to master the art as he has gone through and mastered the steps before.
 
The Master knew that if this student has wrong motivation and eagerness to complete within the shortest period of time, the student may give up and not be able to achieve his goal. Then after his first failed attempt and realizing that there is no short cut to master the art, the student will have to start all over again which will take another 10 years or more.

negra orquida

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 03:09:23 PM »
Based on the replies so far, it seems that everyone would have responded to the teacher's first answer with "OK"  :D

I think the over-enthusiastic student responded the way he did because he did not believe in the teacher or trust the teacher's judgement, and he wasn't sincere in his request to learn martial arts from the teacher.

When we reflect this upon ourselves, do we have such attitude as well with our teachers, elders, senior colleagues, Gurus... we ask for advice but we do not listen or we debate with them or even challenge them?  I am guilty of this.. and i know how it feels to be on the receiving end... i received this treatment in return when people ask me for advice and they don't follow what i said.. sometimes they ask again and again and revert to what they wanted to do in the first place, and do not get the result they wanted.  It can be quite frustrating at times.

So let us be kind to our teachers and Gurus. and do not ask for advice if we do not plan to follow it, or ask for an initiation / practice if we do not plan to do it properly.  Do not give promises which has no basis.

jeremyg

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 03:07:22 PM »
I like this story very much. To me, it shows that time shouldn't be a factor if you really want to reach a goal. There are no short-cuts, and often the short-cut in the long-cut. Especially with the practice of Dharma, the longest, hardest way is the most beneficial to you. By asking for quicker progress, he is showing that his mind is not ready for it as well, as being impatient about something actually means in some aspects that you don't truly want it. If you did, you would be prepared to wait for as long a time, and work as hard as needed to achieve it.

Aurore

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 03:59:10 PM »
This story has a striking resemblance of guru devotion in Vajrayana Buddhism.

Watching those kungfu movies and research, martial arts can develop certain qualities. Martial arts also have a mental and sometimes spiritual element which not only improves the mind's focus but also helps in self control. Emotions such as anger and fear are better controlled through training hence one can gain inner peace and added confidence. One becomes more disciplined from the unique formalities of martial arts. Respect is something that all martial arts teachers place great importance. So I must say that martial arts and training from a spiritual teacher are pretty similiar. It's much more than just mastery of techniques!

Trust factor is most important when comes to learning from a qualified teacher. If the teacher said this is the amount of time required to master the skill/practice, he should have folded his palms with humility, be grateful and thank the teacher. If he knows better, don't have a teacher!

There are no fast results. It is possible for fast results but working hard alone is not going to achieve that.
There are other factors that comes with it. Patience, humility, acceptance, respect and trust are amongst the few to list. This applies even in gaining quick results in secular work.

KhedrubGyatso

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 02:39:39 AM »
The moral of story is about having patience. We all have enthusiasm and are sincere in wanting to learn or practice a martial art, spiritual path  or whatever. However to be able to sustain one's practice/effort  till completion requires a high level of patience. When the student said he wanted quick results, obviously the teacher knows he lacks this important quality . Hence the wise teacher said it will take double the time because it means the student will most likely be discouraged along the way, when results are not forthcoming, stop start on and off and not concentrating well - all of which affects progress and obtaining results.
 I would say the same thing as the student as patience is one of my weak  points and i struggle to be mindful to practice all the time.

Reena Searl

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 05:26:59 PM »
There is no trust and impatient in the student's mind. The teacher sees the weakness of the student and purposely to further test his patience by answered the 2nd question even longer time to achieve and master the Martial arts.

To have a teacher and to follow instruction of the teacher is the key, why to have a teacher and not sincere with teacher and bargain with the assignment instructed.


Tenzin K

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 07:18:30 AM »
In my opinion the teacher is testing the student patient, commitment and consistency.

Frankly speak, I’m fine with learning and doing things fast but of course it always subject to what are the thing that we a referring.

In any course that we would like to learn, we always have to follows the rules and regulation set. It’s important to follow tightly else we may not reach the destination that we supposed to be. We should leave to the expert matter to decide the way, method and duration for the course taken.
The master in this case should be testing his patient and passion. If he really enthusiast and serious no matter how long it take he will follow through. If just thinking of easy way out and want to go his way, can is telling the master that “he is the master” follow his way then. 

In spiritual learning is the same. We listen to the Guru and follow what the Guru advice. The Guru is the expert matter and knows the way how we would benefit more with the right method. 

Klein

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2012, 09:53:06 AM »
I think there are a few possible reasons why the teacher said 20 years to him.
1. The student hasn't surrendered himself to his teacher. So it's difficult for the teacher to train him as he will have doubts along the way.

2. The student needs patience.

3. The student is too arrogant to assume that he can take a short time frame learning. Arrogance implies that he knows more than his teacher.

The student should have either folded his hands or went to his knees accepting and thanking what his teacher told him.

sonamdhargey

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Re: I will work very hard!
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2012, 10:24:47 AM »
I think getting faster results does not mean doing more and spending more time on it. Everyone will have their limitations and as a Master he know best for his students based on their capabilities. The master increase double the time to take to learn because the Master not only need to teach the student martial arts, but also needs to teach him to be patience as the saying goes you need to learn how to walk first before you can run.