Author Topic: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa  (Read 26408 times)

Aurore

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 06:58:22 PM »
Hey,

I watched this movie before.

What created an impact on me most is the fact that Chogyam Trungpa gave back his vows and disrobed to be like the people he was trying to spread dharma to. The importance of dharma to him at that point was critical because the holy teachings would dissipate with the invasion of China in Tibet. I was very touched by his urgency and passion to transmit the dharma to others and will use whatever method to do so even if it means his reputation is at stake.

Similarities
The real guru can be very difficult to be with because the real guru will bring out all the ugly side in us and it would be difficult to accept and transform. I have heard some students has left during the time when they were all forced to wear a suit when the head of Sakya, the Karmapa came to visit the centre. It was something these students were not used to because they were hippies. This is the perfect example of not able to let go and surrender to the guru and this is what this movie is about. To let go of our comfort zone and attachments completely trust the guru.

kurava

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2012, 08:51:15 AM »
Dear everyone,
Thank you for sharing.

Chogyam Trungpa no doubt is one of the most outstanding Mahasiddhas of his time. However, as some noted, during that time some students could not take his style of training and left.Some criticized him and said he's a fake. His methods, even to the open-minded Westerners ,were highly controversial.

Would you take him or some one like him as your guru?


Midakpa

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2012, 02:44:28 PM »
In 1969, Trungpa Rinpoche went into solitary meditation in Bhutan and became a lay person immediately after his return to Scotland. In the 70s, in America, people were fascinated with the East and looked to Hindu and Buddhist philosophies for answers. Trungpa Rinpoche described this as a spiritual supermarket and spent the rest of his life teaching his special brand of dharma which was to counter what he called "spiritual materialism" and to develop "basic sanity". He defines "developing basic sanity" as a process of working on ourselves in which the path itself rather than the attainment of a goal becomes the working basis". There is no goal or rather the path is the goal. He was teaching Buddhism in a revolutionary and contemporary manner which appealed to his Western students.

If I had met Trungpa Rinpoche in my 20s, I would have followed him but I might not have understood his profound teachings. That's why some of his students left him. I think they could not transcend spiritual materialsm. Now I understand his teachings because I've matured and following a master like him would not be a problem. Yes, if Trungpa Rinpoche was alive, I would take him as my guru.

Dolce Vita

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2012, 04:47:21 PM »
He really was not an ordinary person. I have watched the documentary "crazy wisdom" before, it was a very good documentary as it gave an understanding to us what a mahasiddha is.

From the movie I saw he was a monk and he was still wearing monk clothes when he went to the University to the UK. He later found it was easier if he disrobed and 'be one of them' in order to teach Dharma to the western people. His mission at that time was to introduce Buddhism to the western people. His way of teaching westerners were very unconventional, he smoked, he drank, had women, drug, etc. But by doing what people at that time did, he managed to introduce and teach Buddhist Wisdom to the westerners. The center he has worldwide is over 200, this shows his way was really effective at that time.

He way of spreading Buddhism completely changes one's view on how a monk should be. It breaks our perception and  makes us see deeper. What I found is, it is not about how a monk look or behave, his results show everything. It is the substance and quality of the monk that is more important.

My Guru is not very conventional either. He is very direct and humorous, he jokes a lot when he gives talk, this is one of his ways to make us understand the profound Dharma, explaining it in the way we like, in the context we understand.

Q

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 02:59:47 PM »
I love Crazy Wisdom, I've watched it twice and I'm going to watch it for the 3rd time one of these days. Another biographical movie that is worth watching is title Brilliant Moon, the life of Dilgo Rinpoche. This is another movie (some parts animated) about a great Lama.

From Crazy Wisdom, after watching the movie twice, I find that CTR method of bringing the Dharma to his students is fantastic and flawless! I mean, he's on a new land, where Buddhism is some what foreign... and yet, he managed to teach the Dharma using methods to suit his student at that time and place. I thought the most amazing part regarding this is when one of his old students said that they didn't even noticed that all the things they were doing, the instructions that they received were all Dharma... That they only figured it out much later. From that point, here I can see many similarities between my Guru and CTR, I know my Guru used so many methods to get across the Dharma to us... Sometimes several methods for one person just to get one point across! It really is amazing how hard our Guru work and care for us.

Another thing I like about the movie is how much Guru Devotion CTR's students have for their Lama. I found that really special... How some of them just drop everything to serve their Lama and didn't see that as 'giving up' their 'life'; how they didn't need 10, 20 years of nurturing and with just a few years their guru devotion is so strong that they continued their Guru's work even when CTR is not there physically... I beleive, that is true love, respect and faith for their Guru, to in their best behaviour whether or not their Guru is watching or not.

There are so many other things that I like about the movie, but these are the 2 things that strike me the the most. I'm really thankful for having the fortune of viewing such a blessed movie of CTR life... and his students really inspire me to be a better Dharma student.

KhedrubGyatso

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2012, 03:55:05 AM »
Dear K,
If i am a westerner living in that era, and not having much success or not having found basic happiness/purpose in life, I would take CT as my Guru.I would have the right mental disposition to  explore and receive CT's crazy wisdom.I believe a lot of his disciples come from such a background.
We are now in the 21st Century and the days of spiritual materialism and gratification has passed due to globalisation breaking down barriers in time and space to communication and knowledge seeking.
Mahasiddhas like CT are the rarest of holy masters. We need them to leave behind a legacy of what is ' sane' and 'real' when one is attained. Otherwise we will miss the forest for the trees and what we practice will be false dharma leading to imagined or fake enlightened behaviour.
My background and disposition does not match what i mentioned in the beginning and it will be a challenge for me to have such a Guru. But i will not let  a rare jewel pass me by despite my own personal resistance. Its worth it.The oppportunity to learn from a real Guru will not come again in countless lifetimes.Yes, i will have a Guru like that. Thank Buddha i hv found one just like that and with perfect skills suitable for our present times.

sonamdhargey

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2012, 05:27:28 PM »
Chogyam Trungpa's methods of spreading the dharma, is an unconventional way to reach out to people from different culture. From a country with limited knowledge of Buddha Dharma at that time, Chogyam Trungpa absorbed into the culture of the Americans and spread dharma through a very unique way that appealed to them.

His ways appeared to be controversial but it was to reach out to people. In the beginning the critics used to criticize his ways but later they realized that his motivation was pure to benefit people and he was only using the method that is most suitable at that time. Not many can go beyond the limits to bring Dharma to others.

ratanasutra

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2012, 06:52:07 AM »
1) what you learn from his methods of spreading the dharma
Chogyam Trungpa used an unconventional way to reach out to people who have culture, knowledge and back ground different in order to bring the great benefit to them. Hence once their mind are open then it easy to learn and absorb Dharma. That why many actions he did seem to be crazy base on people acceptance and expectation but he did not concern about his reputation.

2) what are the similarities/ differences between him and your own Lama ( if you have a Lama).
Similary as my teacher also use unconventional way to reach out to people who have everything different from him in order to break through their mind then they can learn and accept Dharma later for their own benefit. He is very modern and his teaching is straight forward and it easy to penertrate student minds with his great compassion to bring benefit to whoever he has come across.

yontenjamyang

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2012, 10:11:20 AM »
Aurore, the Karmapa is the head of the Kagyu Lineage. Just a note.

It is hard to imagine during his time just by asking his disciples to wear suits can be so difficult but waking pot is ok. He live his life mirroring the society/environment that he is teaching Dharma. Everything he does is Dharma. Just by being drunk during an entire Dharma talk is Dharma. He doesn't care how people look at him. Just how he can be of benefit. A true Boddhisattva.

If a guru similar to him were to be near us, we should all appreciate and embrace him as a real guru. Do not have any preconception of what a Guru should be like. Such Guru will be very similar to us from the outside but all his actions is to benefit us.

Galen

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2012, 01:27:05 PM »
The one thing I could not understand is that towards the end of Chugyam Trungpa's life, he has been drinking excessively and affected his health a lot. Is this a way he is manifesting for his life to be taken away or be shortened?Is it because of the negative karma of his students that caused him to manifest this heavy drinking? Or any other reasons?

I would not have understood because to me he could have stopped his drinking and benefit more people because he could live longer.

No doubt he is a very skillful guru who has successfully spread the Buddha Dharma across the West.



thor

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2012, 08:15:35 PM »
Recently I chanced upon this interesting video on the great Mahasiddha , Chogyam Trungpa.

Crazy Wisdom: The Life & Times of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche -Trailer -Shambhala

Do share with us-
1) what you learn from his methods of spreading the dharma
2) what are the similarities/ differences between him and your own Lama ( if you have a Lama).



Kurava, great video, thanks for sharing. I plan to purchase the full version for my collection of Buddhist movies. I find tremendous similarities between Trungpa Rinpoche and my lama. They are unconventional, unpredictable, ineffable and really, I find that both embody the term Crazy Wisdom. It looks crazy but its complete wisdom. Haha. Cliche I know, but that is really the case.

Truth be told, when I first met my Lama many years ago, I was utterly taken aback by his behaviour. It was nothing like what I expected of a holy monk, and his manner of interspersing jokes into his teachings, down to earth manner and unpredictability had me reeling. I didnt quite know what to think, and I left wondering what that was all about.

Having then had many more encounters with my Lama, and having researched about other unconventional buddhist masters (funnily enough, Trungpa Rinpoche was one of them), I realised that such behaviour was mahasiddha-like, and rather than being something to be a cause of worry, it was a tremendous thing. Over time, I realised that whatever my Lama did, it was with complete good motivation to benefit someone, something or similar. Trungpa Rinpoche is just the same, albeit a tad more controversial.

So - womanizing, sleeping around, drinking, practicing dorje shugden, starting an army, doing drugs, flower arranging, calligraphy.... which is more controversial, strange, bad, 'evil', ...? Something to chew upon...



kris

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2012, 02:48:22 PM »
Just watched this video and I totally love it!

It is called "Crazy" for a reason. To me, he is "crazy" because he dares to break out from the box or limitation of people onto himself.

In this degeneration age (Kali yuga), materialism, enjoyment, desire is the main driving force. If we expect people to have string guru devotion and meditate in the cave, most of the people cannot do it (I for one cannot). That's why an unconventional method must be used, hence "crazy".

The part I remembered the most is Rinpoche asked his students to bring weeds for their retreat. Doing this is a lot of risk because people may think what kind of guru he is. At the same time, it closes the distance between him and the students, then he throw them into the fire, chanting "We are burning self deception..."

How cool is that?!!

rossoneri

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2012, 07:10:00 PM »
The title wouldn't be called Crazy Wisdom for no reasons...some of the things which Chogyam Trungpa did which i am not really comfortable with but who am i to say anything to this Highly Attained Being. He totally blew me away with some of the method he uses, it's totally cutting edge. First he realizes the situation of that era particularly in the United States and adapt or put himself into the same thought of mind of what most of the people searching for during that time. He became one of them, he's like a scientist who will inject himself with the medicine which he just developed.

I guessed with these method he befriended a lot friends who eventually became His student till now. It is so amazing that to know how devoted the students are even their Guru had entered a clear light quite long already.

As a Buddhist we do not just go to our chapel on a certain day of the week and pretend to be Holy. We shall practice Dharma 24 hours a day if we can. It's not about the 1-2 hours prayers you did, it is about the rest of the 22 hours.

vajratruth

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2012, 02:22:26 PM »
It is not easy to accept Chogyam Trungpa's methods if we are determined to hang on to our perceptions of how different things and people are supposed to be. Supposed to be by what or whose standards?

One of the most important lessons I have had to learn as I embrace Buddhism is to keep an open mind and to let go of my ideas of how everything is supposed to be. A Teacher like Chogyam Trungpa wastes no time challenging my mind and makes me confront my own bias and discriminating thoughts.

You have to go beyond Chohyam Trungpa's initial "layers" and if you are still open to him methods, only then do you see his results. The genius is, when you start from the end i.e when you begin your examination by looking at his results and then you track back, there was such clear purpose to his "madness".

How compassionate the Guru is to do whatever is necessary to reach the dark depths of our minds.

Rihanna

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Re: The crazy wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2012, 03:49:22 PM »
I watched it twice. Its hilarious, wild, shocking, poignant and mind blowing. It is amazing how one can catalyze the transmission of Tibetan Buddhism from a seemingly backward country to the West, change and adapt the method to the people of the era to bring spirituality to them.

I read the book The Mahasiddha and His Idiot Servant afew years ago. It was written by Chogyam Trungpa's butler John Riley Perks. I was shocked by the obstacles the group had to go through; back stabbing by Akong Rinpoche, the accident that left Chogyam Trungpa semi paralysed, lack of financial support, criticism and the list just goes on. Despite all that, the few loyal students (as seen in the video) perservered.

And today. 20 years after his death, Naropa University that was founded by Chogyam Trungpa, the first of its kind as a Buddhist-inspired university in North America that integrates ancient traditions of wisdom into the curriculum of modern education is accredited by The US government. A testament that crazy wisdom is not so crazy after all!