Author Topic: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?  (Read 20411 times)

jessicajameson

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2012, 08:59:55 AM »
Do what many monks do in secret. Treat both as your lamas. Keep your tantric vows and commitments if any but continue to practice DS. Do not attend DL's initiation and keep samaya clean with DL.

You did not mention which one is your root guru. If the Geshe is your root guru then do as above. If DL is your root guru, go ask the Geshe for advice if you have doubts. Otherwise, again do as above.

Personally, if I am you, I will continue both. DL has a higher reason. Don't take appearance literally. When in doubt, take Dharma as your refuge.

Although every one who replied has valid points, what Yonten Jamyang says is really to the point. Most monks do keep both the Dalai Lama and their gurus as their gurus.

If the Dalai Lama is your root guru, then I do believe that you should follow what he says - if he says, don't practice Dorje Shugden, then don't. I wouldn't know about secretly practicing Dorje Shugden's practice if HHDL is your root guru...

However if the Dalai Lama isn't your root guru, then I do believe that you should follow what your root guru tells you to do:
  • If he doesn't have an opinion about the ban, but practicing it might endanger your guru's life, then practice it secretly.
  • If your root guru continues to practice DS, then continue to practice DS.
  • If your root guru doesn't practice DS and is very anti-Dorje Shugden, then perhaps you would have to contemplate whether your guru is part of the bigger picture (i.e. he really could still be secretly practicing DS!) or whether he has given up the practice altogether. It's very hard to decipher a living Buddha's actions, so if I were you: if my root guru gave me the DS practice, I would just continue doing it secretly.




sonamdhargey

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 09:25:52 AM »
Choosing is not the question here. However determining who your root guru is will help with your answer. Asking your root guru what to do is the best way to go about this. If HHDL is your root Guru then follow his instructions. If your Root Guru tell you to practice Dorje Shugden then do it. Many practitioners are still practicing in secret, I'm sure they still follow the instruction of their root gurus to practice. But they need to do it secretly for now to avoid further problems.

jeremyg

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 06:30:58 PM »
Do what many monks do in secret. Treat both as your lamas. Keep your tantric vows and commitments if any but continue to practice DS. Do not attend DL's initiation and keep samaya clean with DL.

You did not mention which one is your root guru. If the Geshe is your root guru then do as above. If DL is your root guru, go ask the Geshe for advice if you have doubts. Otherwise, again do as above.

Personally, if I am you, I will continue both. DL has a higher reason. Don't take appearance literally. When in doubt, take Dharma as your refuge.

This post speaks the truth. "When in doubt, take dharma as your refuge" is one of the best quotes I have heard in a while regarding the Dorje Shugden ban. Why make one small issue stop your dharma practice entirely? We shouldn't make it affect us to the point that we stop practicing. Dorje Shugden and the Dalai should be seen as one. After all the enlightened mind is the same, there should be no difference between them. Appearance isn't everything, there is always great purpose behind something that is perceived to be as bad.

Tenzin K

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2012, 03:22:21 PM »
First of all, which is your root Guru? This should determine which Guru to follow.
If both of them are not your root Guru you may then follow both of them.

No doubt Dalai Lama ban Lord Shugden practices but it’s for a bigger picture. Look at how well DS monasteries doing outside. Don’t let go the opportunity from practicing lord Shugden as he is very powerful and has been practicing by the lineage master. They can never be wrong.
Suggest to just follow both and just do DS practices secretly until the ban lifted!

vajraD

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2012, 04:10:05 PM »
Personally I would keep both and keep my practice of Dorje Shugden quietly. The HHDL must have a valid reason for him to ban the practice in the public over the years.

But if you are worried of breaking vow or samaya then check with the Guru that confers you the Dorje Shugden practice.


KhedrubGyatso

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2012, 03:46:30 AM »

I think its about faith ultimately. I can't read your mind but I know my own  so I will share based on my  thoughts.I hv faith in both my root guru and DL. You may ask how is that possible for me? Because they both teach the same dharma , share the same lineage and has no other agenda besides benefitting all living beings - there is nothing to separate one from the other. As root guru, his instructions are the essential  practice I need . If he gives me a protector /yidam practice,that has to be what I need for now.  If another Lama advices against it, for me it is a general advice and not a personal one. The instructions given by my Root Guru has more benefit karmically and takes precedence.
 I don't see the DL's ban as evil or contradictory to my own practice as it arises from his wisdom for a larger picture and larger good . Due to my own ignorance, my opinions are unreliable whether  to support, reject or criticise his decision at this point in time but I can rely on my  strong faith in DL that whatever he is doing can only be wise decision  ultimately.

kurava

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 09:27:09 AM »
I agree with most that had shared their views that -
1) who do you consider as your root guru ?
2) if DL is not your root guru, then solution is simple - follow your oot guru's instruction

If you consider DL as your root guru, then you have a choice of -
1) follow his instruction literally on face value
2) find out more, contemplate , apply your own intuative wisdom and  see from different perspectives . Either way, it is your own decision, no absolute right or wrong.

Whatever you decide to do is your own business, you don't need to let others know. Protector practice is after all, a secret practice. Most important is NOT to condemn others who do not share your views.

Spiritual practice is a very personal thing. No one is obligated to declare to others what they follow and blieve in their hearts.

bambi

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 12:33:20 PM »
Well, you referred to both as Lamas and not your Guru. Yes, you attended HHDL initiation but that doesn't mean that you have taken Him as your root Guru. So this doesn't mean that with you practicing Dorje Shugden, it is going against HHDL. Who have benefitted you the most, HHDL or the Geshe that gave you Dorje Shugden? Sometimes it is hard to choose especially in a situation like this. I will personally choose Dorje Shugden as He has helped me a lot during my difficult times.  ;D

Rihanna

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 12:50:31 PM »
I have to say I will keep both. In fact I am still. I can't just make a turn on Dorje shugden's practise as He has helped me in the past. I will not forget that Dorje Shugden has helped me through my difficult times. It is definite that I will keep His practise as if it is my life. I have a lot of respect of Dalai Lama but I do sit on the fence and do both. I am not trying to say I have two face but I am thinking logically that Dorje Shugden can't be a spirit and practice Dorje Shugden will make Dalai Lama's life shorter. Dalai Lama is a Bodhisattva and Chenrezig himself. How will practicing a spirit practice can harm a Bodhisartva's life? We check it. We don't simply jump on something just like that.

Manjushri

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 07:02:59 PM »
I don't see why it has to be a choice. One is a lama, one is a protector. The lama teaches the doctrine of the great saint Lama Tsongkhapa whilst the protector exists to protect the teachings of Nagarjuna which has been flawlessly taught by Lama Tsongkhapa. It is a choice only in our minds, because we have made it to be come a choice - with politics and what we think should and shouldnt be. Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that it is because of the ban that so many are put in this dilemma, so many have to make heartbreaking either or choices, like Big Uncle. Whatever it is, to me the motivation and sincerity works best. Seek permission from one's root guru, and do as advised.

lotus1

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 01:06:04 PM »
I believe you have already checked out your root Guru (Geshe) before you follow his teachings and all the practices that he gives you. Once we have checked out and choose a Guru, we should follow through all his instructions as he will know what’s best for us.
If you have doubts on Dorje Shugden, I suggest you checked out on this forum and dorjeshugden.com. For me, DS has been practiced by all the great masters (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=37) such as HH Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, Kyabje Domo Geshe Rinpoche, His Eminence Gangchen Rinpoche, etc and even the previous HHDL. Would these Masters wrong? Therefore, I choose to believe that HH Dalai Lama has a bigger picture for the ban.
DS is a protector practise that supports us in our spiritual journey by removing obstacles and creating more positive conditions for us to practise. Although as of now I may not be able to practise DS openly due to the ban, personally DS has helped me a lot to clear a lot of obstacles in my spiritual journey and I have more chances to practise Dharma and be connected with my Guru. I am sure he will help anyone who believes in him too. Therefore, I strongly urge you to just follow your Guru’s instruction and practice.   ;)

valeriecheung

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2012, 04:36:51 PM »
No matter what's happen this is a personal important issue between you and your root guru. Practice dorje shugden impossible will harm others on top of that even will help you on your spiritual path so i don't see why should give up this practice. All practices given by root guru is top priority, should not doubts for all your guru instruction. I am totally agreed should keep both practice, if still feel not comfortable should seek advise from any geshe.

ilikeshugden

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2012, 06:53:33 PM »
Is this in the right section because this the general Buddhism thread not the Dorje Shugden thread? Anyways, I think you should have examined both teachers. Which one do you believe you have more of an affinity with, His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama or the other guru.  Personally, I would pick both but more on the Dorje Shugden side. I still respect His Holiness and I believe that his in no doubt, an Enlightened being. I still have the freedom to trust in Dorje Shugden because he is an Enlightened. I do believe that the Dalai Lama is enlightened,so he has his reasons for "banning" Dorje Shugden. Don't worry, there will come a time when Dalai Lama will openly say, "Dorje Shugden is good!"

biggyboy

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2012, 05:49:48 AM »
Many practitioners ask this question many times as to how they would and could practise.  How else?  I would continue to practise Dorje Shugden quietly and keep practising what my Guru has given me.  Have it best of both ways.  We do not need to announce the whole world that we practise Dorje Shugden.


ratanasutra

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Re: Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden? Can I choose both?
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2012, 04:22:45 PM »
i will still practice the kalachakra as i received from the Dalai Lama, and secretly practice Dorje shugden as my Guru kindly given to me. i think you have gain many benefit from Dorje shugden before and you know he is the buddha so there is no reason to not practice Manjushri who provide us a wisdom.

As i can see that the Dalai Lama has a bigger reason behind to ask everyone stop the practice of Dorje Shugden except H.E.Trijang Rinpoche..

I pray that the ban of Dorje shugden is lift soon and everyone can openly practice Dorje shugden..