Author Topic: This whole buddha mind is confusing  (Read 16631 times)

Roberto

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This whole buddha mind is confusing
« on: March 01, 2011, 08:42:15 PM »
I still finding it hard to grasp the following.

So its been said that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's incarnation is back.

But - he incarnated as Dorje Shugden?

So if he is back and teaching again, would he be praying to himself when he did his protector puja?

What if there is an DS oracle where he is, does that mean he prays to himself, and then he takes trance of the oracle to give himself answers to important questions?

Wow... i'm getting a headache trying to make the connections

Big Uncle

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 12:48:24 AM »
Roberto,

That's actually quite easy. Yes! He could be the Lama, Protector and Yidam simultaneously! So that means he could be the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen praying to Dorje Shugden and then performing a sadhana to Yamantaka. They are all emanations of Manjushri! Historically, Manjushri appeared to Lama Tsongkhapa and gave him many teachings. That is like Manjushri teaching himself! In the scriptures, Buddha Shakyamuni taught that the enlightened mind is capable of 'spontaneous magical emanation' and that means, a enlightened mind can emanate out in countless beings to perform a greater amount of work to benefit others.

hope rainbow

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2011, 03:16:36 PM »
I still finding it hard to grasp the following.
So its been said that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's incarnation is back.
But - he incarnated as Dorje Shugden?
So if he is back and teaching again, would he be praying to himself when he did his protector puja?
What if there is an DS oracle where he is, does that mean he prays to himself, and then he takes trance of the oracle to give himself answers to important questions?
Wow... i'm getting a headache trying to make the connections

In the lamrim (liberation in the palm of your hand), in the part describing the visualization of Buddha Shakyamuni, Buddha Vajradhara, Buddha Manjushri and Buddha Maitreya (it is I think in the 3rd preparatory rites -refuge visualization), it is said that these buddhas are surrounded with activity, and that many emanations are sent out and many emanations are coming back. It is described like the big HQ of the enlightened activities of the enlightened minds of Buddhas...


Helena

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2011, 04:22:52 PM »
Dear Roberto,

I don't know if this analogy will be of help to you, but when my Guru explained it to me in this way, it did help me to understand much better about the nature of Enlightened Beings.

Imagine Enlightened Beings to be like water - it can be contained if there is a container to contain it, but it can also flow freely to wherever. Enlightened Beings can emanate in various places in different forms all at the same time. Just like water - if you pour the water into several different cups, glasses or containers and even jars or pots - it is still water. It does not change. Even if you spilt it on the ground, it is still water. It's the same, but now, it is in different places.

However, more than water - Enlightened Beings will choose to emanate as whatever form that will best benefit the sentient beings around. So, it could be as a Protector, an Oracle or a Guru, a beggar or even a courtesan.

Enlightened Beings will do whatever is necessary to help us all see, learn, understand and open up our minds.

They do not need to pray to themselves, but they may need to emanate as somethings to show us how to pray, how to work harder or even commit and not give up - all for the sake of Dharma.

I am just giving you a few examples here. In truth, it is infinite what Enlightened Beings can be and can do.

Hope this is helpful.
Helena

jessicajameson

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2011, 10:24:04 PM »
I still finding it hard to grasp the following.

So its been said that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's incarnation is back.

But - he incarnated as Dorje Shugden?

So if he is back and teaching again, would he be praying to himself when he did his protector puja?

What if there is an DS oracle where he is, does that mean he prays to himself, and then he takes trance of the oracle to give himself answers to important questions?

Wow... i'm getting a headache trying to make the connections

What Helena wrote was very apt.

Some students would listen to an oracle, rather than their own guru.

The belief that what their gurus say is true, unfortunately, may not be as strong as their belief in an oracle. If you perceive your guru to be a Buddha, then essentially their word is the same.

What the guru says we associate it with him/her, so if something "harsh" is said we might feel negative towards him/her. To stop us from collecting negative karma, perhaps those messages get channeled through someone we don't communicate with face-to-face. I mean, how can we be angry with an oracle. It wasn't really him, but who he channeled...

I hope that made sense...

iloveds

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2011, 10:44:54 PM »
Agree with all that's been said. When i first went down the path of buddhism i found it difficult to believe in the whole emanation, reincarnation, simultaneous manifestation of the mind concept.

Throw emptiness in there that even what we conceptualise is not real then you may find yourself thinking this buddhism crap is one big mindf#$k... and you would be right too.

But seriously, to put limitations on the nature of mind would negate even practicing anything taught by our holy gurus. That they could be wrong. Besides a Buddhamind is supposed beyond all this doubt.


DSFriend

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 03:52:35 PM »
And here we are, taking pride in looking into the deep, vast, universe (nothing wrong with that) when we don't even know how our mind works ...

Big Uncle

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2011, 04:01:16 AM »
On top of that, Tulkus... real attained Tulkus would emanate out when they leave their earthly body. They usually return in 3 bodies... body, speech and mind or as body, speech, mind, qualities and activities.

However, when the search begins, they only look for the mind emanation because that is the true incarnation of that Tulku. Hence, there are thousands of Tulkus in Tibet and many of them are associated with Avalokiteshvara, Manjushri and Maitreya.

Even Dorje Shugden is really just an emanation of Manjushri and so is Lama Tsongkhapa, Kalarupa, Yamantaka, 4-face Mahakala,  the Sakya Trizin and so forth.

kurava

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 01:39:53 PM »
Imagine Enlightened Beings to be like water - it can be contained if there is a container to contain it, but it can also flow freely to wherever. Enlightened Beings can emanate in various places in different forms all at the same time. Just like water - if you pour the water into several different cups, glasses or containers and even jars or pots - it is still water. It does not change. Even if you spilt it on the ground, it is still water. It's the same, but now, it is in different places.

However, more than water - Enlightened Beings will choose to emanate as whatever form that will best benefit the sentient beings around. So, it could be as a Protector, an Oracle or a Guru, a beggar or even a courtesan.

Enlightened Beings will do whatever is necessary to help us all see, learn, understand and open up our minds.
 

Dear Roberto,

There is nothing confusing.

The great Bodhisattva, Shantideva , in his "Guide to the Bodhisattva's Way of Life" prayed that :

Just as the great elements of earth, water and so forth support the life of sentient beings, so may I too become the sustenance for all. May I become whatever is beneficial for all sentient beings in the realms reaching to the ends of space until they attain complete and unsurpassable enlightenment

Such is the intention of the holy beings, therefore the skilful means of buddhas are all encompassing and beyond the limited perceptions of ordinary folks like us  :D

Big Uncle

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2011, 04:44:28 AM »
We do not realise the full potential of our mind. It is capable of so much more and since, we know that our true nature of our mind is kindness, clarity and deep insight. It is not developing something new but rediscovering that part of our mind. Hence, being able to emanate into different beings is very possible. It starts with the fact that we realize our potential to do so much more for others.

Roberto

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 09:21:13 PM »
How's your realisation coming along Big Uncle, what part of your day do you get to practice your potential to help soo many more?

At the same time we're supposed to practice positiv potential to benefit, the negative potential is struggling to stay alive.

Do we help the guy who's cutting me off on the freeway, do I spank my child to instill a sense of discipline or adherence to other people's rules? Do I put the seat down for when my wife wants to use the toilet?

Some days are just too much to handle

Big Uncle

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 06:39:42 AM »
Dear Roberto,

Realising that we can be much more just requires one to open our mind to change and see that if other people can do much more, so can we. However, real spiritual realisations come when we study the Dharma, create merits (through holding vows, maintaining our samaya with our Guru and performing our sadhanas and kangsols (to Dorje Shugden) and incorporate the teachings into our lives.

All of these are not difficult because it just require effort. Everything in life requires effort. Even not doing anything requires effort and so if we direct effort to the right thoughts and motivation, we can do a lot more for others. I am not a perfect example but I see many of my friends and Dharma brothers and sisters do this and have gotten their results. Hence, I have to change myself to do the same.
 

Barzin

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 06:54:25 PM »
I love this thread!  At the beginning i find it all too hard to absorb.  Who & who and who does what and asking myself what do i do in the end of the day???!!!   (I still do!!) I guess, spiritual is like water, formless; it moves us... on a bad day when we are about get angry, some "dharma reminder" came in... then you're like ok... Be nice.  There are times when is good.. you totally forgot there is a dog at home waiting for food etc...  It is all about mindfulness of dharma I presume, the more we push ourselves or train our mind to practice and turn into actual actions.. the more it becomes a habit.  So less anger, less doubts, less frustration...  Nobody says it was easy for us though.  We are all the same, we are not perfect.  So instead of making the effort to change ten people, let's just change ourselves.  It is easier.  Coz I know me.

pgdharma

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2011, 02:29:40 PM »
Everything in life requires effort. When we embark on something new it is always difficult. Through perseverance that difficult task we perceived as difficult  will become easier as the days go by.

We can't change the world but we can change ourselves to make the world a better place to live in. How, by letting go of our attachment, hatred, anger, desire, intolerance, jealousy etc etc. It is easier said than done but through constant practice, applying the Buddhadharma into our daily life and being mindful we can cut away all these negativity.  The results will come not immediately but through time, we will be able to see a transformation in ourselves. The main purpose of dharma practice is to achieve these results.

triesa

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Re: This whole buddha mind is confusing
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 01:55:25 PM »
Dear Roberto,

I could understand how you may feel because I have also been in your shoes. Sometimes our mind just could not figure anything out except confusion.....

Would like to share a story here and hope it will help to ease our minds....

Beautiful Thought by Lord Buddha

Once Buddha was traveling with a few of his followers. While they were passing a lake, Buddha told one of his disciples, "I am thirsty. Do get me some water from the lake."

The disciple walked up to the lake. At that moment, a bullock cart started crossing through the lake. As a result, the water became very muddy and turbid. The disciple thought, "How can I give this muddy water to Buddha to drink?"

So he came back and told Buddha, "The water in there is very muddy. I don't think it is fit to drink."

After about half an hour, again Buddha asked the same disciple to go back to the lake.

The disciple went back, and found that the water was still muddy. He returned and informed Buddha about the same.

After sometime, again Buddha asked the same disciple to go back.

This time, the disciple found the mud had settled down, and the water was clean and clear. So he collected some water in a pot and brought it to Buddha.

Buddha looked at the water, and then he looked up at the disciple and said," See what you did to make the water clean. You let it be, and the mud settled down on its own -- and you have clear water.

Your mind is like that too ! When it is disturbed, just let it be. Give it a little time. It will settle down on its own. You don't have to put in any effort to calm it down. It will happen. It is effortless."

Having 'Peace of Mind' is not a strenuous job; it is an effortless process!